Conflicts between science and religion

Something you may not know .....The Bible word for healing; it’s called salvation. The words used in the New Testament-related to soterios – can is translated “heal.” Practitioners of medicine in the world of Jesus “saviours.” Practitionrs of medicine today " saviours "

The book of Mormon, The Koran, The Scientologists cook book, The Karma Sutra ( I think that is the one the Hindus use....anyway it is way older than the bible) what the hells the difference? They all spout the same message.

Bible truth? Let's take a look! The Bible is unquestionably the world's all-time bestseller with an estimated 2 billion copies in print. The Bible was completed in its entirety nearly 2,000 years ago and stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, with over 24,000 ancient New Testament manuscripts discovered so far (compare this with the second best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, Homer's Iliad, with only 643 preserved manuscripts discovered thus far). The printing press wasn't invented until the 1450's, but we have hand-written copies of the Old Testament dating back to the 200's BC. Remarkably, these ancient manuscripts are nearly identical to the Bible we read today.

As far as the New Testament, the Bodmer Papyrus II contains most of the Gospel of John and dates from around 150-200 AD. The Chester Beatty Papyri contains major portions of the New Testament and dates back to about 200 AD. The Codex Vaticanus, the oldest complete New Testament manuscript we've discovered so far, dates from 325-350 AD. The apostle John, who lived with Jesus and learned from Jesus, penned five New Testament books and died in 100 AD. We have fragments of John's Gospel that date from 110-130 AD, within 30 years of his death. When compared to other ancient works such as Plato, Homer or Tacitus, that short time period between the original and the most recent copy is dramatic!

Clement of Rome was martyred in 100 AD. In his writings, he quoted from Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 1 Peter, Hebrews, and Titus. Clement's quotes totally correspond with the Bible we read today. In fact, even if we lost all of the 5,300 early Greek manuscripts, all of the 10,000 Latin vulgates, and all of the 9,300 other ancient manuscripts, we would be able to reconstruct all but 11 verses of the New Testament from the writings of the early Church leaders who quoted from them extensively. We have over 36,000 preserved quotes from the New Testament. In a nutshell, the Bible stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, and it's overall reliability is without question!

Bible Truth - The Passion of the Ancient Writers When it comes to Bible truth, many critics argue that the early Church deliberately corrupted the Bible's text for its own agenda. As for this argument, ask yourself one question: would a group of men who were willing to suffer terrible persecution and die horrible deaths in defense of the Scriptures be guilty of corrupting those very same Scriptures? That's lunacy! If they corrupted the Scriptures, or knowingly allowed them to be corrupted, that would mean they knowingly suffered and died for a lie! No one suffers and dies for a lie! For example, the September 11th suicide hijackers may have sincerely believed in what they died for, but they weren't in a position to know whether or not what they believed was true; they put their faith in traditions passed down to them over many generations. They didn't knowingly die for a lie; they died for a lie in ignorance.

In contrast, the New Testament's martyrs either saw what they claimed to see or they didn't; plain and simple. Either they interacted with the resurrected Christ or they didn't. They certainly knew whether or not their testimony was true! Nevertheless, these men clung to their testimonies, even to their brutal deaths at the hands of their persecutors, and despite being given every chance to recant, knowing full well whether their testimony was true of false. Why would so many men knowingly die for a lie? They had nothing to gain for lying and obviously everything to lose.

Then what " it is written " are they listening to ?????? Perhaps copperman can answer that . " i dunno " There are so many examples of this type of behavior where it says " it is written " with the counter argument " it is written " here that justifies this or that behavior . I would like someone to answer this question if possible . I know I will listen to a well formulated presentation .

"eppur si muove"

This is what Galileo is alleged to have said on going into house arrest: "but it does move ..." it represents the indomitable nature of the questioning, questing mind ...

Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as with a women,it is an abomination.

The act is a big NO...period

If you listen to that still small voice ........ you know the answer to this . http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091118/ap_on_re_us/us_lutherans_gays They are using it is written . What say you ?????

I thought this was cool. http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2006/0207-back_to_the_moon.htm

What is written is the question . I am of the belief that God writes his laws on our hearts . Solo Scripture has a major problem . Which written word is the real written word . Over the centuries it has changed from one sect to another . Claiming this book should be included this one shouldn't this one is inspired because ...... this one isn't. It is just a guide . We already know what is right and wrong . What we should do or not . It is called conscious that small still voice.

Funny, The god you claim to worship always prefaced his words with "it is written" but when one follows his lead ,he is put down for it. :blink:

There is a way we can all redeem ourselves in our quest to convince people towards our point of view . I believe first is to understand what relegion is .Religion is stories . A collection . Moses parted the Red Sea. Muhammad recorded the final words of God. Jesus rooled the stone away . He rose from the dead. A better way IMO to handle this would be to ask the question. What does it mean to you that Moses parted the Red Sea . Or that he came down from the mountaintop, Jesus healed the sick rose from the dead . Muhammad the Prophet lived among us? How does that affect the way you live your life or deal with our inevitable deaths ?? On the other side it is just as important to place these question ot our lives . The questions are different . Is there really a God ? Does He really exists? Religious experiences other people have - divine & miraculous ,cosmic oneness with everything answer to prayers- works of God ? Again how does this affect the way your live your life ? If we want to take this topic to where the rubber meets the road. Obviously most of us are not scientist or preachers . Just interested in how to run our lives in a way that makes the world a better place . As for us the goal ......better people Nobody gets out alive

Well stated prigz . The purpose of the topic was to bring two sides that could mutually benefit . I know it was mentioned I'm not a scientist . Well on that note I'm not one either or a minister . I know there is plenty of good material for an educational and inspiring dialogue . I have a sense of pride to be part of the group with the heart displayed . Thank you .

That's well said. It's not an either/or proposition though with regard to scripture. Those sentiments are found within scripture if one makes the effort to find and focus on them. I'm not going to fault anyone for finding and quoting scripture. I just won't do it. But I do take issue from time to time with what is selected and how or why it is quoted. What you call the mortal element. To my mind, we have been focusing lately here on two things, a water thing and a fire thing. Yes, they did get after John the Baptist for trying to purify enough people to overthrow the establishment, but as a rule I have noticed that things having to do with water are benign, including of course the act of baptism. Where we get into trouble is when we start waving fire sticks around.

Sigh… quote the scriptures all you want, but in the end, it boils down to “my way is better than your way”. As Egg has already pointed out, even when adherents professed to be following the same Bible, praying to the same God, professing belief in the same Jesus Christ, they still found enough issues to go on murderous rampages. We humans have many abilities, including compassion, empathy, love, caring, that are noble and good, and we also have other properties of deceit (including of self), arrogance, hate, jealousy, greed, cruelty and a bunch more that I’m not going to list, that are not so good. Ok, so the latter you can blame on the Devil/Satan, whether as influence or possession. How many people died being purged of the Devil by well-meaning God-fearing, scripture-quoting murderers (because that’s what they became by their actions)?

We can’t sidestep our own responsibility and culpability by blaming it on Satan. We must acknowledge that the seeds of both greatness and depravity are within us (external help is not needed), and it is up to us, each and every one of us, to promote the good aspects and suppress the other. It’s been shown time and time again that ordinary, good people can be induced to do horrible and evil things if they believe (that word again) that they are doing “the right thing”.

The very fact that the umbrella of Christianity has many factions who violently disagree with each other, even though their faith is based on presumably the same bedrock, says that maybe the problem is not so much the scriptures, but what we, as humans, do with them. The same problem seems to be showing up in the Muslim world, where various branches of Shiites and Sunnis consider all the other adherents as apostates to be exterminated. If you expand the ground covered by belief to ideology, well, we’ve just found more examples of people killing other people because they didn’t think the same thoughts. What’s the common element? It’s us. It’s within the human mindset to believe (or self-delude) that we have figured it all out and that “we” have the correct interpretation and that “we” are on the right side of the absolute line of right and wrong, and therefore, we need to “cleanse” those who have not seen the light.

What’s getting lost in this pursuit of “rightness” are the traits that redeem us as humans, such as compassion, humility, and empathy. A certain amount of doubt about our certainties is the safety line that allows us to exercise our humility, our compassion and our empathy. We may think we’re right, but just in case we’re not, we better treat our neighbours and fellow planetary inhabitants with respect.

Topics like this one require revealing it's purpose . When people feel threatened and their beliefs challenged bam!! The walls come up the defensive positions are established " shock and awe " bombardment . This type of behaviour creates Polarizing positions . Peaceful "real " conversation , dialogue is all that is required . I am aware that there is a need for people to understand . "Ignorance breeds myths .