Conflicts between science and religion

I think I see a pattern here.

We have slowly been moving from many gods to fewer gods and now to a singular god(for some). As the population becomes more evolved, the scriptures have to be re-interpreted / re written, to account for increased questioning.

I can see a future, not in my lifetime, where Coke and Pepsi are just flavors, and water is the ultimate truth.

In the interests of fairness, Hinduism/Buddhism has a stupendous body of scripture. The Kama Sutra isn't an appropriate candidate for mention in this regard. Buddhism has a lot going to recommend it and the story is phenomenal. Well worth the trouble to investigate even for someone not personally seeking a religion to be a part of. Here's Hinduism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

Then there is the matter of Muhammad. From Wik: "Muslims thus consider him the restorer of an uncorrupted original and monotheistic faith (islam) of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and other prophets."

Here's the Wik on Qur'an: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur'an See the third paragraph.

Interesting fact: in purely chronological terms, there are approx. 500 year increments between Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. (-500, 0, +500)

I believe the major differences between Christian sects occur over, as Mike says, the Trinity, Logos, etc., but also over the control of functions, the lineage of authority, what was and was not included as Orthodox at the Council of Nicaea, and whether or not belief in Christ without accompanying Work is sufficient for salvation. There must be more, but it's been a long day.

Jed Said: Yeah, youre right the messages are not even similar.

The message: You will do as I say and believe in me only, and insist that my word is spread yadeee ya dee yada, oh and kill all the non- believers....is exactly the same.

In exceptionally simplified terms, of course.

He does NOT force you to do anything,believe in Me only is right,but there is no insisting His word (some do though),Jesus never forced Himself or His word on anybody..people do but He never did..

.....a hard hearted sinner...those that tread under foot the blood of Christ, will one day answer, and it won't be pretty....the price has been paid for one an all.....from the beginning for the first man..... to the end for the last man.

Jed Said: The book of Mormon, The Koran, The Scientologists cook book, The Karma Sutra ( I think that is the one the Hindus use....anyway it is way older than the bible) what the hells the difference? They all spout the same message.

Actually, the messages are not even similar. Perhaps mormanism is most closly aligned with traditional Christianity, but even there, the differences are large.

The Koran is the book of muslim, penned by Mohammad alone. Compared to the Bible which maintains a constant theme throughout multiple contributors and a couple millenia. The teachings of Mohammad and the teachings of Bible authors do no coincide with each other, particularly when it comes to salvation. Aside from both the arabs and jews sharing common lineage, recognizing Abraham (Abram if your muslim) as the father of their race, there is little similarity. Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet, but it stops there. Jews recognize Jesus as a heretic.

Christians recognize Jesus as God in flesh form, died on a cross after a sinless life, as the sole source of repentance for the sin that separates man from God. For anything other than a sinless perfect life to be sacrificed would simply that person receiving the justification through death that they deserved(exactly how they view the Jesus/God/Holy Spirit trinity thing is where most disagreements among christian branches exists.

Kama Sutra is the ancient indian book of sexual positions, which has no similarity that I can think of, and I am not aware of Hinduism having a specific reference book. There are MANY gods in hinduism, the caste system basically exists on the belief that you come back through reincarnation into a life you deserve from your previous life. This is why indians as a whole look upon the lowly suffering castes with little regard........... they deserve to be where they are by previous actions and to help them is trying to subvert karma, the gods or whatever you want to call it. One of my oldest friends is an ultra-lib Indian and we've had many long discussions about this. One of the few people I've ever had divergent faith conversations with that could do so for hours without starting to throw insults once her faith was questioned in a way she could not answer.

In exceptionally simplified terms, of course.

This is revolutionary . A totally new Renaissance . A first under the sun . The possibility something new never , never before .......... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/12/60minutes/main5629962.shtml Humans can be so cool B) :) :) B)

Nope,just witnessing it,and hearing from other churches of it happening in...kinda like church news..

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I’m not shouting “I am saved.” I’m whispering “I was lost”; That is why I chose this way.

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I don’t speak of this with pride. I’m confessing that I stumble, And need someone to be my guide.

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I’m not trying to be strong. I’m professing that I’m weak, And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I’m not bragging of success. I’m admitting I have failed, And cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I’m not claiming to be perfect. My flaws are too visible, But God believes I’m worth it.

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I still feel the sting of pain. I have my share of heartaches, Which is why I speak His name.

When I say, “I am a Christian,” I do not wish to judge. I have no authority; I only know I’m loved.

Kage, I'm not sure what the lengthy post was in response to or to whom it was addressed so all I can say is practice makes perfect. There is a lot of stuff in there that might turn somebody's head...not sure whose...but not likely anyone here from what I have observed. Take this part, for example: "...When it comes to Bible truth, many critics argue that the early Church deliberately corrupted the Bible's text for its own agenda. As for this argument, ask yourself one question..." Before a person can answer something, he has to have a sound question in front of him. Which 'many critics' which 'corruption' which text, which 'early Church' and which 'agenda?' If that is a question that 'flies' it only does so like a hive of bees. I know we are all in our own special places in our thinking, but this type of argument isn't productive. You're going to have to slow WAY down to get anywhere.

Kage I'm just trying to give examples on how to relay a message that is important to how we run our lives without coming off like a kook. If I may be so bold to say " ignorant " . Remember ignorance can be cured it isn't permanent . What I've learned in this discussion. The word salvation . It was new to me what it meant . A brief incident or scene , vignette ; When I lived on the Island of Maui there was guy who walked around with diapers and a tall walking stick . The staff was painted red from the waste down . The upper part of the staff was white . Besides other problems this guy had his communications , a bit off . It wasn't congruent with usual forms of communication . He had cardboard signs proclaiming he was a profit of GOD . If you stared at the diaper you were going to Hell and better repent . I'm not using this illustration to say your a nut job . I am trying to help you understand what your communicating . Relating to the audience your speaking to has to be the most important thing for the message. It is easy to get a martyr complex and think if you are being laughed at and made fun of it is a good thing . I really don't believe that is what was meant. Learn to communicate from who and where you are . Be real brother "The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust , From refdesk for those keeping score .

Jed Said: The book of Mormon, The Koran, The Scientologists cook book, The Karma Sutra ( I think that is the one the Hindus use....anyway it is way older than the bible) what the hells the difference? They all spout the same message.

If there the same message why do countless mormons,korans,JW's,scientologists turn to Christ of the Holy Bible?and not look back..

Something you may not know .....The Bible word for healing; it’s called salvation. The words used in the New Testament-related to soterios – can is translated “heal.” Practitioners of medicine in the world of Jesus “saviours.” Practitionrs of medicine today " saviours "

Bible truth? Let's take a look! The Bible is unquestionably the world's all-time bestseller with an estimated 2 billion copies in print. The Bible was completed in its entirety nearly 2,000 years ago and stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, with over 24,000 ancient New Testament manuscripts discovered so far (compare this with the second best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, Homer's Iliad, with only 643 preserved manuscripts discovered thus far). The printing press wasn't invented until the 1450's, but we have hand-written copies of the Old Testament dating back to the 200's BC. Remarkably, these ancient manuscripts are nearly identical to the Bible we read today.

As far as the New Testament, the Bodmer Papyrus II contains most of the Gospel of John and dates from around 150-200 AD. The Chester Beatty Papyri contains major portions of the New Testament and dates back to about 200 AD. The Codex Vaticanus, the oldest complete New Testament manuscript we've discovered so far, dates from 325-350 AD. The apostle John, who lived with Jesus and learned from Jesus, penned five New Testament books and died in 100 AD. We have fragments of John's Gospel that date from 110-130 AD, within 30 years of his death. When compared to other ancient works such as Plato, Homer or Tacitus, that short time period between the original and the most recent copy is dramatic!

Clement of Rome was martyred in 100 AD. In his writings, he quoted from Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 1 Peter, Hebrews, and Titus. Clement's quotes totally correspond with the Bible we read today. In fact, even if we lost all of the 5,300 early Greek manuscripts, all of the 10,000 Latin vulgates, and all of the 9,300 other ancient manuscripts, we would be able to reconstruct all but 11 verses of the New Testament from the writings of the early Church leaders who quoted from them extensively. We have over 36,000 preserved quotes from the New Testament. In a nutshell, the Bible stands today as the best-preserved literary work of all antiquity, and it's overall reliability is without question!

Bible Truth - The Passion of the Ancient Writers When it comes to Bible truth, many critics argue that the early Church deliberately corrupted the Bible's text for its own agenda. As for this argument, ask yourself one question: would a group of men who were willing to suffer terrible persecution and die horrible deaths in defense of the Scriptures be guilty of corrupting those very same Scriptures? That's lunacy! If they corrupted the Scriptures, or knowingly allowed them to be corrupted, that would mean they knowingly suffered and died for a lie! No one suffers and dies for a lie! For example, the September 11th suicide hijackers may have sincerely believed in what they died for, but they weren't in a position to know whether or not what they believed was true; they put their faith in traditions passed down to them over many generations. They didn't knowingly die for a lie; they died for a lie in ignorance.

In contrast, the New Testament's martyrs either saw what they claimed to see or they didn't; plain and simple. Either they interacted with the resurrected Christ or they didn't. They certainly knew whether or not their testimony was true! Nevertheless, these men clung to their testimonies, even to their brutal deaths at the hands of their persecutors, and despite being given every chance to recant, knowing full well whether their testimony was true of false. Why would so many men knowingly die for a lie? They had nothing to gain for lying and obviously everything to lose.

Then what " it is written " are they listening to ?????? Perhaps copperman can answer that . " i dunno " There are so many examples of this type of behavior where it says " it is written " with the counter argument " it is written " here that justifies this or that behavior . I would like someone to answer this question if possible . I know I will listen to a well formulated presentation .

"eppur si muove"

This is what Galileo is alleged to have said on going into house arrest: "but it does move ..." it represents the indomitable nature of the questioning, questing mind ...