Conflicts between science and religion

Jed Said: but to justify by saying that me and my ilk seek solace in in the confines of conformity is the sole insult. See what I mean about OVER SENSITIVE EGOS..

...........dont have the guts to leave any portion of their lives out of their own control Uh....yeah. Very profound Mike. Smacks of intellect. Spend a little time thinkin about that. About how little sense it makes.

As for judging Kage. I aint judging him, I am simply pointing out that I see nothing in his posts that indicate he practices as he preaches. As a college grad you should be able to differentiate between judgement, and observation.

BTW, the whole wordy thing, the analogies on double standards, and gods word being an effective life tool to virtually every problem it works for egg cos egg is egg. Egg you aint. ........So back off to the moral high ground with yer.

Hi Jed,

Very nice. I attempted to answer the questions you posed to me in a simple, clear and efficient manner, and that's what I get for a response. I could not have proven my original point about why such discussions fall apart any better than you have.

If my response to one of your many subtle, or not so, putdowns on christians leaves you with the impression that I have an over sensitive ego, and that's all you get out of my wordyness, I'm OK with that. When the only part of what I wrote that you can respond to was an obvious rhetorical example statement, I'm pretty good with that too.

You are quite right, Egg I am not, never claimed to be. He made the effort to visit me and I spent a couple days getting to know him. It was quite a pleasure to say the least. The man exists on a mental plane that lies beyond my highest aspirations. I can't comprehend where your statement ever came from, but for that thought to remotely cross your mind is quite a compliment, even if that was far from your intention. Thanks. I'll just leave it at that for I have obviously hit a nerve and am standing at the side of a road you refuse to cross.

I am not a college grad. Don't want you giving me credit I don't deserve. Based on your commentary above, I'm fairly sure that comes as no surprise to you. I was one of the top chemistry students in the nation, but I left college for roofing. In all honestly, I'm nothing more than a work-in-progress, with a lot of work left to do.

Pot Romans 13:1-7 Ciak aint holdin on to anything I accept. Jed please tell me how i can prove what i preach...on here??also this-"god's word being an effective life tool to virtually every problem" is true..read your bible.

ME 7.just because I work my American brothers and not mex's, don't mean I don't love their souls

kage Bible does say "keep the law of the land"

You gonna have to enlighten me here kage.

"but to justify by saying that me and my ilk seek solace in in the confines of conformity is the sole insult." See what I mean about OVER SENSITIVE EGOS..

...........don't have the guts to leave any portion of their lives out of their own control Uh....yeah. Very profound Mike. Smacks of intellect. Spend a little time thinkin' about that. About how little sense it makes.

As for judging Kage. I ain't "judging" him, I am simply pointing out that I see nothing in his posts that indicate he "practices as he preaches". As a college grad you should be able to differentiate between judgement, and observation.

BTW, the whole wordy thing, the analogies on double standards, and "god's word being an effective life tool to virtually every problem" it works for egg cos egg is egg. Egg you ain't. ........So back off to the moral high ground with yer.

I found this image for copperman . I'm a Master Moron !! That's Mr Moron to knaves ............. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: kage in my mind and heart I have forgiven you . That's enough for me . If you want to hold on to it that is your problem . You may want to check the motivation behind that if you do . The word fundamentalist in its religious sense was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in only 1989 .

1.but hey,if i'm wrong whats it gonna hurt ya,,,but if its true

This is certainly not the basis of my faith,but it is a challenge to all those that call themselfs athesists..

2.I see nothing to indicate kage practices what he preaches

Please tell me how you came up with this,not even knowin me..

3.The atheist having the honesty to stand up for his convictions as opposed to the christian

I stand for my believes everyday..bud..with honesty by the way..

4.That being said to the constant misdirection staging with scripture references etc

when did i misdirect Ciak?..

5.fundamentalism

This is kinda funny comin from a guy who says he's a believer..

6.how blind fundamentalist ideas can get

since when did scripture become an idea??and blind??

7.just because I work my American brothers and not mex's, don't mean I don't love their souls

Bible does say "keep the law of the land"

8.doesn't need defended

if i am being mocked,laughed at,persecuted,..etc.etc...for my believe in Christ i look at it as a true BLESSING,because i know its the father of lies who's getting screwed..it only means he startin to worry,haha!!

and if my posts dont sound like a PHD'r(perminent head damage)its because i'm not I AM A ROOFER.

Jed Said: Mike, First. where am I being insulting? In light of the over sensitive egos in here Im doing my damndest to keep a civil tounge in my head. Second, where do you see its also quite obvious that Kages commitment to his belief is not built on that concept. I see no lineal thought process or logic in his posts. Little more than regurgitation of scripture in fact. My father backed up his beliefs with time and a no small portion of his salary to the church (he was also its treasurer for many years). My mother with a long list of charitable work including opening our house to many a wayward chistian who had no clear path. I see nothing to indicate kage practices what he preaches, and Pot G who has many times derided the mexican contingent doesnt appear to have much love for his brother. Both spout copy and paste from the good book and offer nothing tactile whatsoever. This is all so much of the double standard that is evident with the more ardent in the religious community.

In as lineal fashion as I can: First, look at your second sentence. "Over sensitive egos" is a pretty poor start to keeping a civil tongue. Second Kage has previously explained his conversion, and he speaks with more than a simple knowledge of scripture, which is foolishness to some, but with a passion and conviction that cannot be born of a questionable "belief". While it is possible for a martyr to die for a mistaken belief, no one would willing die for something they had little real faith in. From what Kage writes, I have little doubt that he would remain strong, even with a gun to his head.

I do understand completely that copy and pasting scripture to those that do not believe is of little value to the intended recipient, regardless of how good the intention. However, I have never heard the issue, life problem or relationship quandry that was not succinctly addressed in scripture. Even to those that reject it's ultimate teaching as God's Word and the path of eternity outlined, it can be an effective life tool. Heck, if this life is all they got, what better tool to use than one gives an answer to virtually every problem. ...... but I degress, that is not the point I was working toward. Just a sideline observation.

As for what one does, or does not do, I admire what your parents did. But it does not speak to their belief in and of itself. I know believers and non-believers alike that do good works in many ways. While the numbers lie far in favor of the believer, I also know many pew warmers who's lives outside of church on Sunday bear no outward expression of a sincerely held belief in Christ, God or even the Good Fairy. Church would appear to be little more than an additional business decision and/or social event.

How one could judge the context and content of Kages life in the location his shoes are planted, based solely on the comments made here......................... I have no idea?

"Double Standards" exist in every facet of our society. One could demonstrate foolishness in no finer fashion than to judge the merits and life of Mother Teresa by the actions of Jimmy Swaggart. Just doesn't make sense. No more than for me to judge the life of Jed by the writings of Charles Darwin.

Unfortunately, many form their opinions of Christ and christians as a whole by their own experiences with religion. Christ Himself said that true religion was taking care of widows and orphans, but what man has turned it into is something of little resemblance. However, it is not my place to defend Kage, I'm sure he's quite capable on his own, and truthfully, doesn't need defended. I guess the only reason I did is due to the old banker way of doing things. When banking associates are being trained to recognize counterfiet money, they are never given anything but real money. By being intimately familiar with the real thing, without being polluted by memories of fakes, it makes the fake easier<

Jed Said:I too would trust a self professed atheist before a christian, and not because I am one. The atheist having the honesty to stand up for his convictions as opposed to the christian who seeks solace in the confines of conformity.

...........and if yer gonna quote me, quote the the whole thing, not just the second sentence, both lend pertinance to each other. As a college grad you of all should recognise that doing what you just did takes it out of context.

I would humbly disagree. The first part was simply a statement of agreement with another posters comments. The second line was the justification held in your mind for that agreement. I could care less that you feel that way, but to justify by saying that me and my ilk seek solace in in the confines of conformity is the sole insult.

If I were to say the athiest is only an athiest because they don't have the guts to leave any portion of their lives out of their own control, it may or may not insult you, in fact it just might draw out a fist pump and a "Da** Right", but I'm sure it would insult more than a few athiests. Therefore, I won't say it in the context of a discussion that I wish to see grow.

and Pot G who has many times derided the mexican contingent does'nt appear to have much love for his brother.

Sorry Jed, just because I work my American brothers and not mex's, don't mean I don't love their souls. I use the greatest tool a Child of God has in his arsenal.....prayer, heck, I even pray for those who consider me an enemy. Just because I don't get media attention for it don't mean I don't do it. I am probably giving up a lot of the better things that this life has to offer because of it, my labor costs me at least 30 to 40 % more than my counterparts around here, that use all or mostly all mex's for their labor force, and there ain't that big a difference in percentages between our prices. Not for attention, do i do it this way, I just feel it my patriotic duty, as an American. I am not a rich man by most anybodies rule, I might , on a good year make max 40,000, and I have to live off this amount.

And on top of this you must refresh my memory about deriding them, all I kan remember is stating that I don't work them.

Sorry to veer off the topic gents, but i thought this needed addressing, as it being a shot at my integrity.

I only bring this up to make a point on how blind fundamentalist ideas can get . I'll bring up some on the other side with science and it blind sides.

My beloved son! By now we have been in the Führerbunker for six days already — daddy, your six little siblings and I, for the sake of giving our national socialistic lives the only possible honorable end ... You shall know that I stayed here against daddy's will, and that even on last Sunday the Führer wanted to help me to get out. You know your mother — we have the same blood, for me there was no wavering. Our glorious idea is ruined and with it everything beautiful and marvelous that I have known in my life. The world that comes after the Führer and national socialism is not any longer worth living in and therefore I took the children with me, for they are too good for the life that would follow, and a merciful God will understand me when I will give them the salvation ... The children are wonderful ... there never is a word of complaint nor crying. The impacts are shaking the bunker. The elder kids cover the younger ones, their presence is a blessing and they are making the Führer smile once in a while. May God help that I have the strength to perform the last and hardest. We only have one goal left: loyalty to the Führer even in death. Harald, my dear son — I want to give you what I learned in life: be loyal! Loyal to yourself, loyal to the people and loyal to your country ... Be proud of us and try to keep us in dear memory ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magda_Goebbels

I do have a bit of guilt about speaking in such a tone to a brother , For that I will ask for his forgiveness.I needed to make the point . That being said to the constant misdirection staging with scripture references etc I forgive . Now back to the topic. I think if this thread can continue it will become obvious that on both sides of the issue the obstacle to get over is Fundamentalism . Religious and Scientific . Both a long and dark ,dark shadow cast of the same arrogance. Blocking out the light . On the religious side there are other beliefs other than the established Orthodox Christian ( obvious I know ) Same in the scientific community with all the hoopla of peer review and the like . All meant to keep it pure from blasphemy to use the understood Christian nomenclature. What Aristotle would not know or good not have possibly guessed from his Great Chain of Being "Scala Naturae." http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/fancher/Aristotl.htm was the superior race idea espoused by Hitler and the Nazis . Again fundamentalism arrogance . Hitler's Goebbels and wife Magda was a church going women and prayed that God in a letter to her only surving son ..

I too would trust a self professed atheist before a christian, and not because I am one. The atheist having the honesty to stand up for his convictions as opposed to the christian who seeks solace in the confines of conformity.

...........and if yer gonna quote me, quote the the whole thing, not just the second sentence, both lend pertinance to each other. As a college grad you of all should recognise that doing what you just did takes it out of context.

Mike, First. where am I being insulting? In light of the over sensitive ego's in here I'm doing my damndest to keep a civil tounge in my head. Second, where do you see "it's also quite obvious that Kage's commitment to his belief is not built on that concept". I see no lineal thought process or logic in his posts. Little more than regurgitation of scripture in fact. My father backed up his beliefs with time and a no small portion of his salary to the church (he was also it's treasurer for many years). My mother with a long list of charitable work including opening our house to many a wayward chistian who had no clear path. I see nothing to indicate kage practices what he preaches, and Pot G who has many times derided the mexican contingent does'nt appear to have much love for his brother. Both spout copy and paste from "the good book" and offer nothing tactile whatsoever. This is all so much of the double standard that is evident with the more ardent in the religious community.