Conflicts between science and religion

and Pot G who has many times derided the mexican contingent does'nt appear to have much love for his brother.

Sorry Jed, just because I work my American brothers and not mex's, don't mean I don't love their souls. I use the greatest tool a Child of God has in his arsenal.....prayer, heck, I even pray for those who consider me an enemy. Just because I don't get media attention for it don't mean I don't do it. I am probably giving up a lot of the better things that this life has to offer because of it, my labor costs me at least 30 to 40 % more than my counterparts around here, that use all or mostly all mex's for their labor force, and there ain't that big a difference in percentages between our prices. Not for attention, do i do it this way, I just feel it my patriotic duty, as an American. I am not a rich man by most anybodies rule, I might , on a good year make max 40,000, and I have to live off this amount.

And on top of this you must refresh my memory about deriding them, all I kan remember is stating that I don't work them.

Sorry to veer off the topic gents, but i thought this needed addressing, as it being a shot at my integrity.

I only bring this up to make a point on how blind fundamentalist ideas can get . I'll bring up some on the other side with science and it blind sides.

My beloved son! By now we have been in the Führerbunker for six days already — daddy, your six little siblings and I, for the sake of giving our national socialistic lives the only possible honorable end ... You shall know that I stayed here against daddy's will, and that even on last Sunday the Führer wanted to help me to get out. You know your mother — we have the same blood, for me there was no wavering. Our glorious idea is ruined and with it everything beautiful and marvelous that I have known in my life. The world that comes after the Führer and national socialism is not any longer worth living in and therefore I took the children with me, for they are too good for the life that would follow, and a merciful God will understand me when I will give them the salvation ... The children are wonderful ... there never is a word of complaint nor crying. The impacts are shaking the bunker. The elder kids cover the younger ones, their presence is a blessing and they are making the Führer smile once in a while. May God help that I have the strength to perform the last and hardest. We only have one goal left: loyalty to the Führer even in death. Harald, my dear son — I want to give you what I learned in life: be loyal! Loyal to yourself, loyal to the people and loyal to your country ... Be proud of us and try to keep us in dear memory ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magda_Goebbels

I do have a bit of guilt about speaking in such a tone to a brother , For that I will ask for his forgiveness.I needed to make the point . That being said to the constant misdirection staging with scripture references etc I forgive . Now back to the topic. I think if this thread can continue it will become obvious that on both sides of the issue the obstacle to get over is Fundamentalism . Religious and Scientific . Both a long and dark ,dark shadow cast of the same arrogance. Blocking out the light . On the religious side there are other beliefs other than the established Orthodox Christian ( obvious I know ) Same in the scientific community with all the hoopla of peer review and the like . All meant to keep it pure from blasphemy to use the understood Christian nomenclature. What Aristotle would not know or good not have possibly guessed from his Great Chain of Being "Scala Naturae." http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/fancher/Aristotl.htm was the superior race idea espoused by Hitler and the Nazis . Again fundamentalism arrogance . Hitler's Goebbels and wife Magda was a church going women and prayed that God in a letter to her only surving son ..

These things are tough. You cannot prove "god" to anyone. But to those that have experienced God, you cannot prove otherwise.

You will never convince me there is not a god, for I know God. He knows me, and there is nothing in this world or of this world that can remotely compare.

.....................amen......................and I mite add this also Hebrews 13

2. Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

These things are tough. You cannot prove "god" to anyone. But to those that have experienced God, you cannot prove otherwise.

I cannot begin to explain the overwhelming sense of need to turn around and offer a ride to kid (a 20 something "kid") walking along the road the other day? I mean I was going the other direction, had places to go, and there was NOTHING about this kid that looked like he was in trouble, wasn't attempting to hitch a ride, nothing at all unusual................ but this wasn't just a CIAK's "still small voice", no, this was almost a sense of urgency, a NEED to turn around and pick this kid up. Along a busy highway. I turned, about 2 miles up the road from where I passed him. I said to Him "God, OK if this you, I need a break in the traffic. Unbelievably, State Rt. 39, in the heart of Amish country during peak leaf viewing season, virtually cleared behind me. The next car was at least a 1/4 mile back by the time I got to this kid, I rolled down the window, said "You need a ride" and he didn't even hesitate. No fear, no questions, no nothing, he jumped right in and said between heavy breaths "Oh thank you so much. I have walked from Dresden this morning (take a look at Dresden Ohio to Dover Ohio on mapquest).........

The rest of the story is between me and the kid. You will never convince me there is not a god, for I know God. He knows me, and there is nothing in this world or of this world that can remotely compare.

Jed The atheist having the honesty to stand up for his convictions as opposed to the christian who seeks solace in the confines of conformity.

That's the big reason that intelligent conversations between people of divergent spiritual views just can't seem to keep the conversation going. In the end, the "scientist" will come back to the insults. That's a shame. Really, as a guy that was a science major and not normally considered a fool, that's a shame.

BTW, I agree with your last comment to Kage. The "what did I lose if I'm wrong" argument is completely hollow and speaks nothing of a true belief. But it's also quite obvious that Kage's commitment to his belief is not built on that concept.

CIAK Said:

kage Said: Conflicts between science and religion - i see science and religion in this title,im sorry i;m not a scientist,but i am a believer,and the answers your lookin for Ciak can only be answered by askin the Lord yourself,until you do youll be askin till the grave..and as i said earlier dont judge God by mans actions.

kage Im not going to get into a debate with you about my personal relationship with Jesus . The arrogance of fundamentalist . It stinks of judgement pointing the finger etc. Very boring ... I am a believer and have asked and received . This; topic was meant as a debate about religion and science . Not a soap box for a filibuster . A side note ... I have also grown up and know there is a whole life out here. With many avenues to venture . Some take you places that may not fit your current belief . Stretch my brother . Open your ears and eyes .Trust , Life is a journey

Ya know Chuck, in absolutely NO WAY did your post address anything that Kage stated in the quote you were attempting to answer. Nuttin. In fact, it was almost a sarcastic jab (giving you a shred of credit with the "almost") worthy of a total non-believer.

Galatians would be a good place to finish this............................ It's not that long, and speaks pretty darn directly to what you wrote.

didnt see clip youtube is down or something,but i totally agree with you seen-it-all about most wouldnt know if He is right beside ya,we need to do are part instead of blaming or pointing fingures,but i will not tolerate things that are totally against Gods Word,that is alot of the problems in churches today tolerating things,conforming to the worldly things just to improve there #'s,that is wrong,your either in or out why waste your time,thats the way i look at it...

I think what we are seeing today is that as science and religion mix together the result becomes a murky mess where society begins to brand anyone with a strong belief in God as a arrogant fundamentalist. I think that religion has been watered down to the extent that most "christians" wouldn't feel God if he was next to them in a room.

An interesting clip from David Wilkerson author of "The Cross and the Switchblade"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27DIST8qO4I

are you sayin to be tolerant??because i do live brother,but i WILL stand on my believe on what the Lord is askin of us.

kage Said: Conflicts between science and religion - i see science and religion in this title,im sorry i;m not a scientist,but i am a believer,and the answers your lookin for Ciak can only be answered by askin the Lord yourself,until you do youll be askin till the grave..and as i said earlier dont judge God by mans actions.

kage I'm not going to get into a debate with you about my personal relationship with Jesus . The arrogance of fundamentalist . It stinks of judgement pointing the finger etc. Very boring ... I am a believer and have asked and received . This; topic was meant as a debate about religion and science . Not a soap box for a filibuster . A side note ... I have also grown up and know there is a whole life out here. With many avenues to venture . Some take you places that may not fit your current belief . Stretch my brother . Open your ears and eyes .Trust , Life is a journey

Conflicts between science and religion - i see science and religion in this title,i'm sorry i;m not a scientist,but i am a believer,and the answers your lookin for Ciak can only be answered by askin the Lord yourself,until you do you'll be askin till the grave..and as i said earlier dont judge God by mans actions.

It is extremely difficult to have a conversation when it is so polarized and directed . I can see why fundamentalist are so difficult to talk with. I know you don't see it and in all likely hood can't hear it . I have JW 's at my door frequently and hear the same fanaticism . I have a Mormon neighbor who over the years of sending the bicyclists to my door. Finally he trust he can talk to me honestly and not from the stand point of his religion . There is a real person behind the curtain of I'm right and I need to teach you what you don't know . Most Humans know what is real until indoctrination. There is a whole science behind it . Example Jim Jones Right wing extremist Muslims etc it is obvious

Jesus is a friend of sinners,even in His day He hung out with the riff raff of His day instead of the religious folk of His day,and He wants you JUST the way you are!!if He didnt i would have been screwed... :dry: