Ever seen these installed? A job we just finished

Even though I have never installed plastic or rubber slates, I have much experience with faulty designed roofing products and replacing them after failure.

When someone is coming up with a new product there are lots of things that are considered, marketability, manufacturing issues and on-the-roof appearance. One vital thing that frequently gets overlooked is the underside design.

It is VITAL that the underside be designed so that condensation that occurs there, by capillary action drains down to the overlap below. This means any supporting ribs on the underside cannot be horizontal. Some of the ribs and support webs on the underside of plastic slates don't do this. This means the roof is only as good as the underlayment. Frequently it is 30 lb felt, which if it consistently gets wet in this climate gives you 5-8 years.

I did what you said and it said the image was already 500x500. I changed it to 200x200 but it stayed the same?

Great tip thx!

bdub, you should go to your post with the picture and hit edit. Above the script for the picture it says img width. Change that number to 500 or 600.

Wise, true and patient as always OS! Ya im getting older but some things stay the same lol. I have some valid points though but ill post in a separate topic when i get time. Im clogging up your post! Respect

Clover, the "upturn" and also the flat area where they are screwed down. It all locks together very well. Take you time and let me know what you think Good luck!

I got the samples in OS. I have to say that the upturn at the top of the shingle doesn't seem like much protection, but it must be working well. We get icy winters, but if these can tolerate your climate, I should be fine.

Brandon, First off, "Happy Birthday"

Secondly, about the stone coated metal shingles, I have taken the Metro shingles, In the samples and also using the shingles I am installing on the roof, and abused them by bending them back and forth 180 degrees 20 or 30 times until they will just about break and the granules stay right there on the metal. I don't know what they did to the ones you used in Florida, but the ones we are installing seem to be pretty bullet proof. MUCH better than any asphalt or high end shingle I have worked with. I don't do that much regular shingling any more, but we both realize that only about 1/10 of one percent of the roofing going on now are slate or the wood ones you are installing. There is also a lot of junk slate being sold and installed around the world, so slate is not the answer either; and you know I love slate!

I have more confidence in the Metro stone coated metal roofing than I do any asphalt shingles on the market today, especially the country cottage and the shake designs since they also allow the air to move beneath the product. BTW, I love the cold roof you designed and built for the wood roofs you are installing. Without that, I am pretty sure that the wood you install would rot in the short and long term. That says nothing bad about the product, but the air MUST move beneath it to make it last. The Metro design allows for that. Just so you know my train of thought. I hope you are wrong as to the longevity of it on the roofs up here.

You are funny and passionate and it certainly doesn't take much to get you going. thanks for the input. John Crookston Old School!

bdub: I like your posts, your a straight up dude its easy to tell, and look to be one heck of a quality roofer. I do appreciate your feedback, but I think the coastal areas play a big part in that. However, I do accept that these stone coated steel shingles could loose their granules due to a defect, but couldn't be worse than the many defects coming w/ asphalt. Of the jobs we've done w/ Decra, I can say that their was hardly any stone coating coming off of them. The highly trafficked area's had a small amount in the valley, but that's it.

I hear many times a month when called for an estimate "I want them good shingles" referring to 30 year dimensionals.

I'd love to work w/ traditional products but we haven't had a call for slate since we opened in 1987. We did do one cedar roof, actually we did it twice. The architect came in when we were done an said "looks great boys, but tear it off and put on some heavyweights like we spec'd". That contractor was NOT happy but we got another job out of it! :)

About the real thing being obsolete on these modern homes.... With a little creative thought, systems can be created to fit a properly breathing wood roof on a airtight home. I use 2x2s vertically screwed into the trusses after the plywood and grace is installed then i install a skip sheathed deck of solid wood over the 2x2s as if they were the trusses on a real home. If i use good lumber (never pt), quality fasteners (hand nailed) and a hardwood shingle instead of new growth cedar, i can honestly stand behind the roof and installation for my life. At least the shingles would breathe properly and the fasteners would hold. Of course this would require an illuminated customer but theyre out there. For the rest the best you could do as far as real wood is cedar and cedar breather. To still feel honest i just give them a 10yr warranty as thats about how long those type of roofs last here.

My current installation is 18" wallaba shingles from guyana hand nailed with 4" exposure on the double batten system. There are stacked stone, open decked homes in the caribbean 100+ yrs old with wallaba shingles still functioning so i feel confident guaranteeing my work for my life. Wood shingles are as popular here as fiberglass shingles in the USA. There are some americans here and the fakes are starting to show up but they dont last. I just tore off a 1 month old enviroshake with my pinky fingers, i tear off whats left of rusty galvalume after 4 to 8 years and i tear off aluminum usually around 15 to 20 years depending on fasteners, clips and installation. Ive seen one stone coated and its disgusting. Ive seen some plastic slate with honestly no bad remarks yet and luckily no one here does anything but laugh at the whole "lifetime" shingle thing. Lol its still a 10 yr roof at best. Well back when they made quality shingles they lasted 20+ years but the new ones not so much.

Our big gimmick in high demand is what they refer to as a "bermuda roof". Its styrofoam screwed to plywood over grace then skim coated with mortar then coated with elastomeric. It looks really good at first but need i say? Hey at least all the itching ears have one thing in common.... Theyre all saved by grace! Lol

Ill try again to attach a pic.

Ahhhhhhhh!!!! I promised myself i would try my best to hold back truths when i came back to this site and honestly i have but dammit John, i just cannot resist this one!!!!

Ill just stick to facts and consequences for my own actions. I sold over 1mil worth of stone coated in south florida in 05. Easy enough to do it was just after wilma. I embarrassed to say i didnt just do it for the money, i actually believed in it. I sold Gerard, Decra, Metro and Duraloc. I can already feel the negativity and defensiveness im gonna get for this post so let me try wrap it up.

Is crap. Its a lie just like plastic, composite, lifetime shingles, etc.... I believe it will last much longer in your climate before exposing itself than in south florida but down there within 4 yrs the granules or "3m quartz crystals" begin showing bald spots and exposed galvalume begins to rust immediately. Anyone who deals with this stuff has these granules in their vehicle, shop, office, home, etc. Bring samples into peoples homes and you will leave a trail of granules everywhere you go.

I lost almost 100k trying to clear my conscious over this once i realized what i was involved with. I began a ministry shortly after, exposing the truth to the sheep. Any google search on these products will lead you to my posts. Since then ive received hundreds of tear jerking emails from all over the united states begging for help with their failed roof as the manufacturers refuse to return calls on the matter. I cannot find an attorney to represent these folks as when they review the warranty that like with all modern products resembles the fine print on the willie wonka contract, they quickly find there is no chance.

I could write a book on this although no one would read it but ill stop there and now for my disclaimer which is more of a plea to the village folks to put down the torches and pitch forks... I understand. I get it. Just as the tyranny in the US appears at first to be the work of the government, bankers and wealthy elite, its really the people. The ignorant people with itching ears make up 99.9999% of the world. They create the demand and the illuminated have no choice but to respond to it. I get it. The demand for cheap temporary roofing is overwhelming. The businessman is a fool not to respond.

John i have ultimate respect for you. You have shared so much of your wisdom with myself and others. You are the real deal. I consult you regularly for proper techniques and wisdom regarding traditional roofing. I understand completely that yesterdays home runs wont win todays games. I left the ballpark so my hat is off to you my friend. Please dont take this as an attack on you. I see you as babe ruth. I know one has to cater to demand. I just owe it to all of the people i screwed by putting this on their homes to share this truth every time the topic is presented.

Trust me i have other businesses where i bottle air and sell it to the sheep if thats what they want. I just have too much emotion related to roofing to put down my slate hammer and pick up a caulking gun. Im not saying im right or better than anyone. Im lucky i finally found money to support my roofing habit. I feel no lack of respect toward john or any of the other dinosaurs who have no choice but to stop knocking on shut doors and walk through open ones. Infact you are stronger than i and i have nothing but respect. I do however have no room to respect those who met the game as it is and truly believe what they see today is right. The very definition of education is bringing forth that which is within. No excuse for not being able to find truth. Please dont crucify me for this response. I would never attempt to reveal truth to those i believe were incapable of it. Respect to all.

Dammit i went this far so now this is slipping out.. The modern american roof industry is no different than the modern american medical industry. We are as in touch with our home as we are our body. Symptoms is our body communicating with us and since we are no longer in touch with that level of communication, we demand products to prevent our symptoms. The industry has no choice but to create products to meet our demand. The industry is not emotional and therefore utilizes things like government to make cures illegal and the media to promote the false claims everyone wants to hear. Theres absolutely no evil in it just the mechanism of business.... Numbers. There are no victims because the way around it, although covered in signs saying "do not enter", is never blocked.

Truth is available to all who seek it. Respect.

Pricewise, I was thinking of the Inspire synthetic slats at over $400. Haven't priced the Davinci's but I'm sure they are both good and costly. The Union guys near here run the Inspire's.

clover83- DaVinci has basically two types; One that goes on like shakes and another that is similar to concrete tile application, with some particular UL assemblies, (underlayment), thrown in. Nothing too mysterious. Yes, it is a bit pricey; Installations for us, typically run $1,000/sq. & up for re-roofs.

Clover, there is a riser piece that screws down over top of the drip edge. The bottom shingle goes on and then you stitch screw it to the starter piece just like it was a shingle. It works nice. Tom I never thought of that kind of problem. I would imagine that it was a nightmare for the fire fighters to try and stop a fire beneath the metal. Any type of metal roof over a wood roof would do the same I suppose. The Metros can go right over a metal deck if you want to install them that way. There have been times when that was done and the need for a fire suppression system in the attic was eliminated. That was good value.

OS: What did you use for a starter on those? I'm seeing that they have a piece that channels the water w/ a "v-riser" for a starter. One thing I didn't like about the Decra's is the starter piece, it would block any water that would happen to come traveling down the felt beneath the shingles.

TomB: Good to know about Davinci. The only product I priced on them was $400/sq+ though. ouch! They have an installation seminar coming up next week about 1.5 hours from me but I think I'll skip it.