CIAK, general insurance question

Chuck,

I'd like your take on a situation:

As I stated in an earlier thread, we had a severe vandalism occur on a roof we were doing. We know who, at least from a collective POV, but have no proof.

At the end of our work day, we loaded ladders, tools, etc. into the truck and came home. The roof was accessed by means unknown to us, but it was not by our equipment. All of the various roof areas were all damaged. Some roofs were complete, some not.

The owner thinks we need to pay for the damages, and wants a new roof installed.

We immediately called our insurance agent and he stated that he did not think our carrier would be liable, that it was a case of random vandalism and not a case of negligence on our part, and that the owner's insurance should be contacted.

Not completely satisfied, I contacted my adjuster for Cincinatti Insurance, and she reiterated the same, adding that unless our contract put such liability in our lap, she didn't see that we were responsible. She said "This is sort of like saying if vandals broke into the church and painted graffiti on the walls, that we needed to pay for it because we were working there."

That made perfect sense to me. If we had left a key in the door, and that's how they gained access then we would be responsible. If we had left our ladders at the site and that's how they got on the roof, then we would be responsible. But that's not what happened.

In Ohio, once we have affixed product to the structure, we cannot take it back for lack of payment. We must go through the courts for satisfaction. All of the materials that were damaged were completed roof products.

Our contract reads in paragraph 10 "Contractor accepts no liability to indemnify or hold Owner harmless for damages to persons or property, except those that are direct result of Contractor’s negligent error or omission which occur during performance of Contractor’s work."

In your professional opinion, as an adjuster for neither interested party, who's responsibility is it to pay for the damages incurred?>>>

Good to hear. Take a couple of days off.>>>

Rozz,

Yes. The roof had a mfr's technical rep. inspection performed at the same time the owner's adjuster was on site. The inspection was specifically for the purpose of determining "warrantability" from the mfr's POV. One of the roofs had minimal damage, and a few enhanced repairs were required beyond our initial efforts to be warranted. The lower roof was deemed by the mfr to be a total loss and is being re-roofed.>>>

Mike r the repairs effecting the warranty on the roof(s). Are you still delivering a new commercial grade roof after the repairs ?>>>

Mike H Said: Apparently, nobody is surprised. :silly:

Glad it worked out in your favor. You still have a union problem to deal with though. I'd have someone watching your job site 24/7 until the job is complete and paid for. JMO......

JET>>>

Apparently, nobody is surprised. :silly:>>>

Long a believer in "you'll attract more bees with honey than manure", treating people right, picking my battles wisely, getting all the ducks in a row before shooting off my mouth, and always maintaining composure when face to face, not standing my ground when I'm wrong just because I can't admit I'm wrong, and only asking yes-no questions when the right answer is painfully obvious, otherwise forcing the opponent to verbalize their desires so all can hear how stupid they sound..........................

Owner's insurance is paying for initial repairs, enhanced repairs on the upper roof, and replacement of the lower roof.

All's well that ends well.>>>

Rozziroofer Said: Jet do you have info to help out the situation ????????? Sounds like you do .......

Face to face is the only way to address this. If you avoid them they'll just keep it up until you're either broke or dead. I started out being a member of the UAW and saw how it worked from the inside out. These guys are all about greed and have a "pack" mentality.

JET>>>

Jet do you have info to help out the situation ????????? Sounds like you do .......>>>

CIAK Said: Mike H I know the process will play out and work the way it is supposed to. Just keep doing what your doing . If someone wants to do you harm it wont matter who you work a deal out with . That is what the police are for and as a measure of last resort GUNS

Naive? yea, that's the word.......obviously you've never worked with unions. These guys don't play around, especially during tight times. If they went this far (this time) they'll go farther the next. A clear message was sent and better be "dealt" with.

JET>>>

Mike H I know the process will play out and work the way it is supposed to. Just keep doing what your doing . If someone wants to do you harm it won't matter who you work a deal out with . That is what the police are for and as a measure of last resort GUNS>>>

Started roofing at 16, 43 now. I started my first company when I was 19. Of course I've been around it all my life, and we were in the union back when I was a kid. We had a lot of problems when we dropped out, and I'm not gonna work any deals with them.

Of course I've been around it all my life, and I can't recall dad ever having the problems you describe either.

We'll see what happens. thanks.>>>

C'mon Mike, how old are you now? You gotta start "experience" when you're at least 20 years old and I know you're not 47 yet :P :P Just bustin' balls.........hope it works out for you but I don't think their carrier will pick up the tab on this one. Knowing how insurance carriers work they'll make your carrier pay (and they should in this case) and then force a subrogation hearing to get their money back. Being from the Chicago area I know how unions can make your life miserable and have gone toe to toe with them on more than one occasion. You might want to meet with the union boss and get a deal worked out. The last thing you want is for them to follow you around. Good luck.........

JET>>>

Come on Jet, I already got 27 years of roofing under my belt. I wanna be retired before another couple decades goes by. LOL

From my understanding, it's done deal. They have agreed to responsibility. Maybe they will try to knock the price down a little, but that hasn't happened yet. No, we don't have written approval yet either, but if what was said in the meeting was true, that's just a matter of waiting on the paperwork flow.

Who did it? We can't prove it, but we "know" it was union related. They knew what they were doing.>>>

Mike H Said: 2 of my guys met with the church and their insurance adjuster. Looks like everything will be taken care of on their end.

dont know why, but I never seem to have the same experiences as Jet.

As soon as the carrier was informed of the facts, they stepped right up to the plate. As suspected, the guy we are having to deal with at the church NEVER contacted the insurance company.

You haven't been around long enough Mike ;) ;) Give it a couple decades and you'll experience things you've never dreamed of. Glad to hear their insurance company is at least aware (of the issue) now, let us know if they actually "step up". Any idea on who did this to you?

JET>>>

2 of my guys met with the church and their insurance adjuster. Looks like everything will be taken care of on their end.

don't know why, but I never seem to have the same experiences as Jet.

As soon as the carrier was informed of the facts, they stepped right up to the plate. As suspected, the guy we are having to deal with at the church NEVER contacted the insurance company.>>>