Sitting in Atlanta Airport

We joined Roofers Success International in Novemeber. The convention was this week. I just spent 4 days with roofers that did not complain once about Mexicans, subs, the economy, osha, or any other goverment agency. The only thing that was talked about was what works to improve your company and how to implement it.

Woody said "No matter how heartfelt I start out, they all seem to end with something about a lady from Nantucket."

That got me good first thing in the morning. Vickie and Lefty got me good too!

The written word can have many interpretations, the internet is serious business.

Back on topic: $24k is a lot of money no doubt about it. I didn't think it was per year though. One great idea, or a few really good ones could quickly pay for that.

Lefty Said: Mike, It is good to see your 2 posts here. One reason is, it is always nice to see good things said about yourself.

The main reason is Andy was calling me wordy in another topic, and with those 2 posts it will show him what wordy is. I have been called a lot of things. But wordy, I have never been accused of being wordy. Of all the things said about me this is crossing the line. I almost want to ask for a retraction from Andy.

Vickie, Andy was being hostile, calling me wordy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...!!! As MikeH said, that shoe must've fit tightly...lol.

No retraction. I stand by my comments. B)

Sorry I didn't mean to over react. I started to skim and saw the word 'condescending' I though a fight was going to ensue. I am just trying to justify my existence by throwing my weight around.

I didn't even remotely think about banning you, Wywoody. "Why-Wood-I" (get it?) It's your computer, not me.

That was a conversation that was held. An it is a legitimate point that needs to be resolved. Every point you said about my name is correct. They are not trying to run my business. They ask hard questions that you may never have asked yourself.

I will not change my name. Everyone in my market knows my name. They may not be able to pronounce it, but they know it. People will ask are you the roofers that use the bird. Other people before they sign ask "do we get a bird" before they sign? We have one customer that has 4 birds on her house. Every time we do something for her she asks "do I get a bird"?

If I can not make a case for my position, I would be crazy to get my feathers all ruffled instead of listening to their points.

Well, I like to say that I personally install because it's the only part of the job I like. Not quite true, actually. I love the hit I get networking with all sorts of people, love tackling problems and making ends meet. I even occasionally like the bookwork end. Love talking on the phone, at times, love doing shop drawings, at times, love buying and modifying equipment, at times, love coming up with trick ways to improve all sorts of tasks, move product, love providing work for others, at times, love not having to grovel, love doing for myself. In short, love how it is that being in a productive, practical, elemental and necessary business creates a viable, no-nonsense link with the world at large. Love anticipating what the next phase of a project will take, cogitating over it silently overnight, getting out in the weather and helping to make it all manifest, watching it come up right. Take away the personal installing and for me it would all be pretty dull.

Which gets me to my central belief. Know thyself. Things can look big or small from the outside, but what others say about us makes poor sense. Each of us alone has to be the final judge of what resonates with deep and abiding meaning. That is a profoundly personal and spiritual thing. The external appearance of what we create does not necessarily represent internal satisfaction. I wouldn't want to be Warren Buffett but I strongly suspect that he is deeply satisfied and sustained by what he has created. I very much doubt he would enjoy what I do but I am too deeply satisfied by what I have created to care. Despite the preposterous disparity of scale it wouldn't surprise me at all if we were both equally satisfied with our lives. In the end it's not about the money or the fame. It's about taking what you are and developing that in the directions that make you stronger and more balanced. Entirely different hungers can lead to very similar fulfillment. We all have different roads to travel, lessons to learn, ideas to explore, businesses to build on. To each the rush that can take the breath away and which only happens when we are totally involved with what we are doing.

All different art forms and as a sculptor friend of mine once said, "The life of an artist is its own reward."

That was funny... with a name like"hicks" it's relatable too.

I often tell people "Hicks. It's a tradition, not a description"

Lefty Said: I share my knowledge on how I run my business freely, knowing I will be attacked most of the time. I could never do what Richard Kallar did being under constant attack. Richard never shared any of the practices that would come under the confidentialty agreements.

I don't think I have seen any one being attacked- definitely not lefty. I am sorry lefty feels that way. It is all about experiences and learning.

I went to a 2-day RSI recruitment seminar 4 years ago. It was very upbeat and positive. It was much like many motivational seminars that I have attended whose goal is to sell dreams, books and tapes. They had most of the participants salivating and falling all over themselves to join up- at least 3 dozen of them. They had me feeling like an idiot for not taking the leap.

I doubt the confidentiality agreements keep anything confidential other than the price paid for their services because what they offer are basic business practices and support. I couldn't figure if they were asking to marry me, hire them on as a full time employee, or sell me a franchise. They are in the business of business.

Mike, It is good to see your 2 posts here. One reason is, it is always nice to see good things said about yourself.

The main reason is Andy was calling me wordy in another topic, and with those 2 posts it will show him what wordy is. I have been called a lot of things. But wordy, I have never been accused of being wordy. Of all the things said about me this is crossing the line. I almost want to ask for a retraction from Andy.

Vickie, Andy was being hostile, calling me wordy.

wywoody Said: Mike I admire your loyalty, but that does nothing to alter my perception of the cultish nature of RSI. Anything I have said about or to Lefty has been meant just as spirited conversation. With the possible exception of my response to his condescending about his superior management of safety issues, that was to let him know the grain of salt I take with him.

And Mike, on the residential side, starting from nothing is the norm.

wywoody,

"loyalty" has nothing to do with it. I have the good fortune of knowing Lefty personally, and have worked with him on several fronts regarding business management. He does things even I won't do, and I always considered myself fairly progressive. I've never met anyone so doggedly unconventional, yet so entirely logical in that unconventionality.

Like you, I'm just sharing an opinion, based on experience. I have no experience with RSI, but I have a lot of experience with Lefty. I have as much respect for him as anyone I know. And my "respect" list is pretty short.

You wrote elsewhere "Ill admit to shortcomings in my people management patience, but I refuse to allow others to define whether I can run a business profitably, legally, ethically dedicated to uncompromised quality of the end product."

We all have shortcomings. Quite a few. Doesn't make us bad, wrong, right or indifferent. Fortunately, we all have different shortcomings. The thing I respect about Lefty, that is quite rare in this "lone wolf" industry, is his willingness to recognize his own shortcomings and set them along side his pride and move them out of the way in order to build a team. That's the hardest thing to do in any business. Build a team. We were having breakfast in VA the first time he mentioned this RSI thing to me, and we talked about 2 hours. Even at that, it just touched the tip of the iceberg, so I'd say the information gleened from this RCS thread doesn't provide enough ice to cool your coffee. Let alone enough information to provide a useful opinion.

What I do want to make absolutely certain of, is that my post wasn't directed at you, or anyone else here. When I read my post, I don't see anything directed at anyone, or anything offensive. While I hope there wasn't, if any offense was taken by anyone, it's because they must have thought the shoe fit, and a little too tight. I know very few people here well enough to make character judgments, and my post wasn't that, nor a declaration of the right or wrong way to run a roofing business. What matters is that we find a way that works for us, and find peace in that way. If there's no peace in your methods, then change your methods. If you can't change your methods, then you've got a problem that needs solved, and it's probably a bigger problem than the business. (I don't mean "you" specifically, but you, me, anybody)

Just seems to me like Lefty wants to put the best team possible on the field, yet recognized that he only has enough knowledge to coach some skill positions, not the entire team strategy. So he's looking for help in doing so.

That's what's really rare in this industry.

I know only one person that's a part of RSI, so it's my only source of opinion formation. Based on that single source, I have no choice but to have a good impression of RSI. Until I hear the opposite from people that have actually paid the fee, sat in the meetings and integrated the methods, my mind isn't vast enough to entertain another impression. Everything else is just hearsay.

PS: most of the commercial guys I know started with nothing also. Most worked for someone else, got tired of the boss making all the "easy money", so they hung their own shingle on the front door. Most got a real good education in the process. I doubt residential and commercial differ much in that regard.

(Vickie, maybe I'm too much the optimist, but where's the hostility?)

Lefty Said:

seen-it-all Said: Question for Lefty:

You seem to want more than just running a business. Is the next step creating a brand in reference to why a customer would choose your company over another. I believe once you have a brand, what ever it may be, price no longer is the dictating factor in a customers purchasing decision.

We have already reached that point. My company is well know with a good reputation and price is not why people have us do their roofs.

I definetly know that I do not know how to hire the right people. This is one of the reasons that we joined. They have the systems and relationships with companys to insure you hire the right people. There are other areas of running a business that we could spend years working thru or go to the people that have the systems in place.

I understand now your direction. The right people in the right place at the right time are key to going forward for you now. It's funny how you need all three of these pieces for this to succeed. I was ready in 2009 to make a big change in my business to go to another level but a major injury interrupted that plan. The company at that time was operating profitability and I had established a brand as being the best residential roofing company in the city to the point of people booking a year in advance to get their roof done. Pricing was always based on profitability and not on competition. I had two sons that were active in the company on a part time basis while doing their apprenticeships in electrical and carpentry and were preparing to make the leap to another level in starting a house construction division in the roofing company after getting their tickets. After I had my major injury I encouraged both my sons to move on with their trades rather than trying to keep the business running while I recovered. They are both doing good where they are 5 years later, both foremen in their trades where they work. Meanwhile I've retracted to the lone wolf status and am happy with the reduced to nil stress in my life at this point. All the best in the next stage of your business development.

Vickie, You let him post longer then I would have. Maybe that is why I reread his posts. Knowing that he would be banned sooner or later. He would not advertize, but continued to try and sell his company on the forum. Never understood that.

Wywoody,

My my youngest son Adam graduated high school I bribed him to come and work with me. I gave him more money then he could make anywhere else. My wife said to me "you are bribing him". I said "no shit". Like I did not know what I was doing. There were several reasons for this.

When my oldest son, Jesse, was graduating college and I recruited him just like any company would recruit a college graduate. Jesse said "I do not want to do roofing". I told him that Adam and myself did not want him on the roof. We wanted him in the office and selling. I offered him a brand new truck, a Nextel, plus other things. It was the longest 2 weeks of my life, waiting for his answer.

I would never state that I am in full compliance. I just hope when they inspect, that they hit me with something minor. I do the best I can. I use more safety equipment then any other residential roofer in my area. We are improving all the time. When I was on every job, no one got hurt. Other then cuts or bee stings. Since we opened our books and started to teach our employees what it cost to run a business, safety has improved.

I think it's disheartening that this tread is turning hostile. This website has been then the salvation of many a roofer by you guys debating but I am getting that feeling it's going to far. Lefty is way to smart to be drinking Kool-aid and I don't think he is trying to recruit you. The day you quit tying to improve you slide backwards. If I was sitting in an airport after learning a few new ideas I would want to share it with my friends too. There is no perfect fit for every business, we all take the information that we want and throw the rest way.

Religion, Politics and Roofers Success International, Sheesh.

I banned Richard Kaller because as he was serving you good advice he was using this Forum to shamelessly promote himself. I actually had to pay someone to read through his topics. I have always been very welcoming to our RCS'ers promoting their products and they did it respectfully. Kleen Cutter, G-Tape, Kold King but I was paying Richard Kaller to post here and I didn't want to. He refused to tone the posts down so I banned him. One of two guys I banned after all these years.

Now I am going to be late for my meeting!

GKRFG Said: Lefty, Thanks for the post. I believe that you have built up a great business over the years. I also believe that you have managed to find the right kind of people and that to do right by yourself, your business and your people that now is the time for the company take another step.

disclaimer: BTW- I have absolutely no talent for conciseness :)

I say this because this is where I would like to see my business go and I have always thought that the biggest obstacle to improving my company is ME. And I would wager that is true of everyone of us. No matter what your goal is. Few of us in this trade have a business background and there comes a point where lack of knowledge is the wall to climb. There are not a lot of resources to find that type of knowledge. I applaud your decision to take this step and look forward to hearing anything you might want to share.

For the Lone Wolves the problem is not knowledge but eventual physical limitations.

I also enjoyed Kallers input. I would love to hear you take over the role. B)

We are alike. I have been blessed with 2 son's and a sister that work with me. Without them I would just have a good paying job. I do not know if I could have got to wear you are at without them. My hat is off to you and what you have done.

My sister died of cancer just before Christmas. She stopped working in March of 2014. One of the reasons we made the move.

I share my knowledge on how I run my business freely, knowing I will be attacked most of the time. I could never do what Richard Kallar did being under constant attack. Richard never shared any of the practices that would come under the confidentialty agreements.

Bob Tronson, I think would have shared more, if it where not for the constant attacks on the pratices he learned from Richard Kallar. I read Bob's website and used the information there to improve my business.

seen-it-all Said: Question for Lefty:

You seem to want more than just running a business. Is the next step creating a brand in reference to why a customer would choose your company over another. I believe once you have a brand, what ever it may be, price no longer is the dictating factor in a customers purchasing decision.

We have already reached that point. My company is well know with a good reputation and price is not why people have us do their roofs.

I definetly know that I do not know how to hire the right people. This is one of the reasons that we joined. They have the systems and relationships with companys to insure you hire the right people. There are other areas of running a business that we could spend years working thru or go to the people that have the systems in place.