Short cut on valleys

I have seen open valleys, and the "California trick" valleys and closed valleys and woven valleys. I guess this is another way to do it. http://picasaweb.google.com/crookston.john4/GoofyValley?authkey=Gv1sRgCJ7Y67ipjabRswE#5388924965500957794

Yeah Soldierboy I guess theres nothing wrong with that type of valley. Im just old school and its new to me. I've never personally used that method but i run into it more and more often while im on repair calls and looking all around the roof. I dont recall being called out to repair that style yet. The closed cut method works great as long as you let the middle tab or middle part of a shingle land in the center of the valley. Too many inexpeirienced roofers out there just letting the shingles fall wherever they will causing leaks. But i guess i should be pleased about that. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ lol

OLE Willie Said: We have had a ton of rain this year and ive ran into a lot of leaks at the bottom of valleys where a wall connects with like a one foot piece of facia and usually theres a gutter attatched. The roofers do not install any flashing at this 1 ft. wall just below the valley. Neither do they let the valley metal hang over far enough to prevent a leak. For that matter they dont even caulk it. They just cut the shingles up against where the facia/gutter meet the roof deck. Today i sold a repair on one that was particularly interesting as for some reason ( probably in an effort to get the valley metal to lay down smoother over the facia and gutter ) they made a cut in the valley metal at the bottom. Cutting it around the facia. This made it 100 more times likely to leak. If your able to get the shingles far back underneath the facia then you wouldnt have to have any flashing etc. But the problem is that the carpenters run the facia too far right into the roof deck so you cant in most cases. We used to have one guy take a long crow bar, pry up the facia ( and the whole upper side for that matter ) lol while another guy roofed it in, sliding the shingles far back up under the facia. Seems either no one knows these tricks these days or more likely no one gives a crap!

I know what you mean! We've repaired some million dollar houses where the bottoms of the valleys leaked because of that. We always run a shingle under the fascia, flashing and another shingle or two against the fascia, then the valley.

OLE Willie Said: We have had a ton of rain this year and ive ran into a lot of leaks at the bottom of valleys where a wall connects with like a one foot piece of facia and usually theres a gutter attatched. The roofers do not install any flashing at this 1 ft. wall just below the valley. Neither do they let the valley metal hang over far enough to prevent a leak. For that matter they dont even caulk it. They just cut the shingles up against where the facia/gutter meet the roof deck. Today i sold a repair on one that was particularly interesting as for some reason ( probably in an effort to get the valley metal to lay down smoother over the facia and gutter ) they made a cut in the valley metal at the bottom. Cutting it around the facia. This made it 100 more times likely to leak. If your able to get the shingles far back underneath the facia then you wouldnt have to have any flashing etc. But the problem is that the carpenters run the facia too far right into the roof deck so you cant in most cases. We used to have one guy take a long crow bar, pry up the facia ( and the whole upper side for that matter ) lol while another guy roofed it in, sliding the shingles far back up under the facia. Seems either no one knows these tricks these days or more likely no one gives a crap!

We have taken our sawzalls and cut downt the fascia board allowing us to put the shingles deep inside the wall area, when we can't do that we put step flashing tins behind the fascia board. We also run our valley's past the fascia far enough to not allow water to wick it's way back in. We have been using the trick method for some time. We install ice and water shield 3' centered, then a metal valley with a one inch center (W), then we have 6" strips of ice guard to sandwich the metal in. We then install a shingle up the valley area (No need to cut the shingles) and only nail into the ice and water shield. We have been running this way ever since ELK (NOW GAF/ELK) have allowed it. Heck, CertainTeed allows this for there 20-year workmanship warranty now. Haven't had a problem with this method yet.

Closed cut, and weaved valley's we had problems with in one way or another. Don't use that method anymore.

What I'm seeing here other than the obvious is impatience. Not looking at the end result of what is started . I'm a master at finding leaks. can find a leak where others have tried and failed many times over . Patience is the key and a keen eye .

The later!

We have had a ton of rain this year and i've ran into a lot of leaks at the bottom of valleys where a wall connects with like a one foot piece of facia and usually theres a gutter attatched. The roofers do not install any flashing at this 1 ft. wall just below the valley. Neither do they let the valley metal hang over far enough to prevent a leak. For that matter they dont even caulk it. They just cut the shingles up against where the facia/gutter meet the roof deck. Today i sold a repair on one that was particularly interesting as for some reason ( probably in an effort to get the valley metal to lay down smoother over the facia and gutter ) they made a cut in the valley metal at the bottom. Cutting it around the facia. This made it 100 more times likely to leak. If your able to get the shingles far back underneath the facia then you wouldnt have to have any flashing etc. But the problem is that the carpenters run the facia too far right into the roof deck so you cant in most cases. We used to have one guy take a long crow bar, pry up the facia ( and the whole upper side for that matter ) lol while another guy roofed it in, sliding the shingles far back up under the facia. Seems either no one knows these tricks these days or more likely no one gives a crap!

Come on Terry, they were the low bidder and they didn't actually figure any of those things. they did use shingles; what more can you ask for.

not only gutter straps, the gutter itself is a bit on the loopy side. Also, it looks like the chimney was not flashed.

gutter straps

I SEE MORE THAN JUST THE VALLEY WRONG

A blue tarp valley. That is a good one. Nothing amazes me anymore!

LOL, that's a good one!

There is a house up here that was blue tarped for part of a summer. Driving by one day, I noticed that the roof was about 1/3 shingled...right over the blue tarp. They chose to use the "open valley" method, with the blue tarp exposed! Everytime I drive past there, I say, I need a picture of this. One day I'll take one.

Willie, that is what we used to call the California trick" or the "Trick" valley

I was just being facicious about running the shingles vertical. I know it will leak eventually.

It will leak where the shingles butt together! The water might not be making it inside YET but it will in due time. If it was 3-tabs it would be much worse. Around here the latest fad for valleys is to run a starter shingle up the last side of the valley and then not let the shingles go into the center of the valley itself. That way they dont have to cut out any valleys. Personally i've done the closed cut method for what seems like eternity! lol

CIAK, you are way too deep for me!