Roofing contractor defined

Another had brought up the term "authenticity", on another topic....I had never used that term, but he had hit the nail on the head, and got me thinking....That's what we promote & pride ourselves on....Thanks, CIAK

I know this will offend a good number, however, I feel the majority of residential roofing contractors are merely salesmen/charlitons....The lack of state licensing seems to be a predominant factor.

My opinion of an "authentic" roofing contractor is a business which is owned & operated by, or has employed in an executive position, an experienced/technical knowledgeable & capable roofing professional. The primary "roofing" work is carried out by trained/qualified/U.S.legal employees, under appropriate supervision. "Subcontracting" is limitted to other, but related trades, (i.e., major structural carpenty, possible specialty sheet metal or the like, not normally carried out by the contractor, HVAC, etc.).

tico Said: now Verified,you know that wasnt aimed at you.and for the most part an elaboration to A fcat. outside,in the real world,how many show up that were schooled and educated on multi typed roof systems,and are looking for A job? I never looked for any type of work for const.I could do it myself,and were A dying breed. I havent done every single solitary type of roof their is.what I have done is hot,tile,(several species) gravel,shingle and some metals,5 v,standing,and some big slate repairs.(we called them egg roofs) yet the fact is,should the need arise for me to help someone do something Ive not done,Id fall in step quickly.thats what I define as A roofer. and bout everyone here roofs.or has. their are some who do only one thing,and they should be called by that. i wouldnt call A prostitute who didnt take her clothes off a PROstitute,shes A pull and swallow.

They pay for their mistakes....either the "contractor" in repairs ...or the homeowner in repairs. either way someone is paying when people are on a roof or in charge of a roof job without proper knowledge or care and concern for doing the right thing. B)

Not me for sure. That being said I know who and where to get the information I want or need. I know who can. I don't do a lot of hands on. I sure watch alot and supervise. ;) ;) B)

tico Said:

CIAK Said: Roofing contractor, means a contractor whose services are unlimited in the roofing trade and who has the experience, knowledge, and skill to install, maintain, repair, alter, extend, or design, when not prohibited by law, and use materials and items used in the installation, maintenance, extension, and alteration of all kinds of roofing, waterproofing, and coating, except when coating is not represented to protect, repair, waterproof, stop leaks, or extend the life of the roof. B) :lol: :side: :silly: :side: :woohoo: :lol: B)

and how many actual paper owners can do this?

Me! I can do about any kind of roof. I have the pics to prove it!

Roofing contractor, means a contractor whose services are unlimited in the roofing trade and who has the experience, knowledge, and skill to install, maintain, repair, alter, extend, or design, when not prohibited by law, and use materials and items used in the installation, maintenance, extension, and alteration of all kinds of roofing, waterproofing, and coating, except when coating is not represented to protect, repair, waterproof, stop leaks, or extend the life of the roof. B) :lol: :side: :silly: :side: :woohoo: :lol: B)

Pimps obtain simple liability, sign our states waiver, sell a roof and then hire "1" sub with correct paperwork and his own crew.

It is the pimps responsibility to make sure the 1 sub he hires has insurance, WC or waiver, SS#, etc.

It is not the pimps responsibility to make sure the 1 subs "crew" all has proper insurance, waivers, SS#, etc.

When the pimp fills out the 1099 for the "sub"......he is not making a 1099 out to every guy on the crew.

In turn, when the pimp gets insurance audit.......if he does not have waivers on file for every sub he 1099, he will be penalized and charged.

This is one of them laws that we all know gets broken daily.....think about Dish TV and them companies. Many of them guys are "subs".......but yet they, they being Dish TV, schedules the install time, etc.

Go figure.

twill59 Said: Sole Proprietor may. There is a state form. THe employees CANNOT be waived however.

Thats the thing about roofing tho.....generally it is not a one man band type occupation. A crew, no matter how small, is almost always necessary. And yes, 2-3 guys can easily form a legal partnership. I would encourage them to do so. (why dont they?)

Does not seem to be the case tho. At the end of the day, most of these guys are subs because they cant handle the management, organization and selling. But MOST IMPORTANTLY: The Paperwork

Which at the end of most all tests and requirements, almost always makes them employees. (In almost all other business, if you dont file your paperwork, youd lose your license)

Someway, somehow common sense and business sense gets thrown out the window in the residential construction world

If they (the state) allow sole proprietor's to waive the worker's comp, then they most likely would also allow a single member LLC to waive the comp too. It gets a little more complicated with Corps.

Up north in MI, they allowed small one man bands to sign off on worker's comp; and MI is heavily regulated. Are you sure they don't allow sole proprietor's to sign off on comp in your locale?

Right on Old School....

However.....just remember; "Perception, IS reality"......

Old School Said: You put a suit on a pig and he still looks like a pig. Piecework is sub work. Contract work with the proper licensing, insurance, and equipment is subbing. Face it guys, 99% of your Sub crews are employees that you are not paying the necessary taxes and insurance on. Been there and done that. Denial is not that long river in Egypt.

ya i forgot the insurance part albiet in texas there is no licensing, wc or ins requirements. My sub crews have 1mill 2mill liability. If they dont then my insurance doesnt cover the job. With my employee crew it does. my employees get paid by the day.

"Face it guys, 99% of your "Sub" crews are employees that you are not paying the necessary taxes and insurance on

I'd put the number at 25% or less. Maybe the newbies in business might get caught creating "captured employees" or mischaracterizing them as independent contractors when they are, in fact, employees. It's far too easy to meet the intent and spirit of the IRS regs governing legitimate independent contractors so a contractor would be a fool to get caught in that trap.

lanny Said: ---The IRS has a lengthy definition of what a true sub is. Most of what I read about here are not true subs by the IRS definition. ---An IRS audit will take place and big fines and back taxes will be due in many cases. ---Basically to be a sub you must be a true contractor in your own right. Otherwise you are just an employee regardless of whether or not you are paying piecework. ---I know of a local company that paid piecework. They got audited by Labor & Industries in my state ( Washington). The auditor did not accept their hours worked formula. That is, in Wa you are charged around $5/hr for employees for injury & disability. Well, piecework requires one to figure out the hours worked based upon NOT the wages paid (some make more than others for the same time spent if you pay piecework) but the actual hours. The end result was they were charged $19,000 from the audit and required to use timecards for all employees. ---I have worked piecework many times when I first started roofing. However, all my employees are hourly. I dont want the goal to be time. I want the goal to be quality. I dont care how long it takes...just do it right. I used to be rush, rush, rush...We slam banged roofs so fast that I look back and wonder how we ever got away with some of the work we did. We werent sloppy on purpose. But we rushed and quality was sacrificed. Lets face it ...the employee does not care as much as the owner. Now as an owner I care. I even say on occasion, Slow down and do a good job!!! Lanny

Your right thats part of the criteria i listed above about not telling them when to show up, when to leave and restricting them to only work for me. Thats part of it as is having an asumed name or DBA and all their own tools. if they borrow your tools they are not subs. you can rent them out but not borrow. ie trailers, nail guns...even a hammer.

TomB Said: JSC....Isnt this just a Jim-Dandy of a mess?

Holy Moly yes. It's bad enough that this happens in Calif where it's illegal to be a subcontractor unless you are licensed. Try getting a job from a totally cost-oriented customer when the undergrounders have you beat by the entire amount of the labor burden, and in some cases their work is of decent quality too.

I'm glad you've been able to overcome and prosper in Colorado, Tom. It musta been tough.

JSC....Isn't this just a "Jim-Dandy" of a mess?

JSC Said: These subs are unlicensed?

In alot of states there is no licensing...wish there was ...