I need help

Hi, my name is Martin and I life with my wife Margit in Seminole Florida. I am 50 years old and a German Master Certified Roofer and Slater with 32 years experiance in roofing. You will find a lot of informations photos and resumes on my website http://www.germanroofconsulting.com. In Europe you MUST learn and work with the most materials (slate, copper, zinc, lead, concrete&clay tiles, roof-batten-systems, torch down a.s.o.) Now my question and I hope somebody can help. In which states here in the US I don`t need a roofinglicense, because in some states I need to learn again my job like in Florida, or it`s possible to work like a subcontractor for a company? I am willing to travel also, or to work with a contract for a company for a long time to change my E-2 Visa. Please let me know, have a nice day alltogether

Take care Martin

Whatever Tom... Show me a bldg that is designed to last only forty yrs. The rate we are going we'll all be lucky to be here in ten......but it does'nt stop us does it.

ok wywoody, you got me on the frustrated and bitter part. it's tuff to know the truth and watch everyone believe nothing but lies and even passionately argue with bunk facts. still though as much as i try not to i end up exactly as you said, "bitter and frustrated". i'm working on that. as far as standing behind work, yes i do. i have kept in touch with all of the contractors i have subbed from over the years and i constantly keep my customers update/d. i firmly believe your preconcieved notion that tradesmen don't stand behind their work and contractors do is completely manufactured. check out sites like yahooanswers and you will quickly see that it's contractors who are screwing everyone. it's against the law here to hire anyone but a licensed contractor for anything. i've never heard a single story here about a tradesman screwing someone but i hear and see nothing but horror stories about contractors. i personally guarantee every single thing i install for my life. why not? shouldn't we all stand behind our work like that? why should we be afraid to say "for the rest of my life, no one should ever be able to say this project failed because i did something wrong"? "and if it did then i'll make it right."

this is where the dumbed down public see the results of their reverse education. we don't put folks to the test anymore based on the quality of their work. instead we make assumptions based mostly on company size, sales pitch, ad size and placement, name recognition, bbb, how many jobs they've sold in the neighborhood, etc...judging a company this way is always very misleading. guys like myself and martin are often hated by contractors. we are accused of breaking laws, low prices and shoddy work all without evidence when infact we hold ourselves to a much higher standard than "the bottom line". i'm not accusing all contractors of being bad guys but you can see how generalizing is a two way street.

john, remember we decided to agree to disagree? i don't see either one of us budging anytime soon! i try to keep my mouth shut and stay away from these sites but i don't have anything else to do right now. sorry everyone. hey, somebody's gotta shake things up a bit, you can always count on rs to bring some heat! don't worry i'll be back to work soon.

egg, i understand. really i was expecting a bunch of disrespect when i pushed save reply. thanks for keeping it respectful. i really don't want to make enemies, i can be a great friend. i'm just EXTREMELY passionate about roofing, especially permanent natural roofing. i'm young and still learning how to vent properly. i understand your point about consumerism but the sad truth is that all we do is consume these days. most of the products in the stores are made in china and most of the items in our homes are made in china. even textiles used to be made in the us but haven't now for a long time. all we do is consume and entertain ourselves. all of the trades down here are not performed by folks who speak english. if americans get their way it will be the same all across the country soon.

americans coin phrases like "it takes money to make money" and "it's not what you can do but what you can get people to do for you" how embarassing if you ask me. i'm all about working hard and being honest and NOT living head over heels in debt.

ok i'm all over the place. my origional point is that guys like martin and myself would have thrived in this country just a hundred years ago but we are barely surviving today. not because there is no need for what we do but because the wisdom to understand what we need has been replaced with the knowledge of what we want. our new cheap, throw away mentality is going to have some serious consequences and it already does. it's unfortunate that by the time most folks finally wake up, it's going to be too late.

oh and i'm not saying to bid things t&m, i'm saying that p&o should not be cut in slate but rather what's left over after giving that job everything it takes instead of making comprimises to maintain a predicted p&o or bottom line.

I would say that just about covers it woody.

I actually happen to be sympathetic to the general ethical position rs takes regarding chemicals, quality &etc, although where and how he takes it when he extends it into a lengthy discussion often makes me stand back the way I do when I see someone carelessly operating a piece of power equipment near me. "... we are on the brink of becoming a completely consumer based economy which is the exact opposite of the industrial revolution..." This statement is just plain weird. Consumerism was the very foundation of the industrial revolution. As far as contracting goes, I'll tell you what; the very LAST thing I want is to involve myself exclusively in T&M projects. An unwillingness to so much as even make the attempt to define the scope of a project and then put a price on that scope is quintessentially unprofessional. I would say, more than that: nothing short of neurotic.

RS, I probably run my business more to your ideals than anyone here, i.e. most of my work is a customer just telling me fix everything I see wromg and then paying for however many hours it takes. But my specialty is maintenance and repairs of tile. Since there's only four slate roofs in the county a slater trying to make a living here would end up even more frustrated and bitter than you seem to be.

While on your idealistic level, the guild craftsman may be superior to the roofing contractor, which one stands behind the work? While Martin certainly has an impressive portfolio (sorry Martin for bringing you into this discussion), is he there available for any service or callbacks on his widespread installations. Even though many claim they never get callbacks, if you're hopping around all the time, how would you even know. Do your customers from 10 to 15 years back know how to find you?

The stable roofing company standing behind their work deserves more respect than someone desiring a return to some Lord-of-the-Rings dreamland that has never existed in this country. I think one of the contadictions in the Bible say something about that, but I don't want to get that discussion going again. ;)

Branden, I understand your situation and your thought process, but most of the members of the slate association are slaters, have been slaters, and always will be slaters. I base that on seeing what they can do on a slate roof. If you can install it correctly, you are a slater.

We all had to learn somewhere, and to throw out the baby with the bathwater will get us nowhere. Do you have another organization that comes close to filling the need? Does Martin? (here in the U.S.) The guys in the coffee shop are roofers too, though most are not attuned to slate; almost all of them are attuned to quality. If they/I/We don't know something, what better place to came and ask? The guys in the slate association are passionate about thier own medium, and are availible to everyone else that has questions.

I personally don't think that all is lost. The problem as I see it is one of reverse incentives and public mis-education. Short term thinking is encouraged and everything is based on ytd profits. Cycles change with time and it will come back eventually. Be patient and continue to do good work!

alba, well at least here in south florida, homes are built out of concrete and rebar. the structures hold up very well. all homes here are designed for concrete tile which weighs 900lbs a square. slate roofs can weigh anywhere from 500 to 1500 lbs a square. the average slate roof i install weighs around 1000 lbs per square. i firmly believe that roof load capability is usually under estimated anyways though.

martin, good luck in joe's orginazation and his forum. that whole club is designed for roofing contractors not slaters. us slaters are completely on our own and need to form a guild or our trade is going to die completely in our country. i believe a roofing contractor installing a slate roof in a major conflict of interest as roofing companies detirmine their profit and overhead before even selling a job. then comprimises are made in order to maintain that bottom line where as REAL slaters never make comprimises. we don't charge by the square and we don't even know how many squares we're going to install each day untill we're done. that's cause real trades can't be put on an assembly line.

i like joe and i love his book but calling it a "bible" was a mistake cause the real bible NEVER contradicts itself but there are several contradictions in the slate roof bible,mainly when it comes to roofing contractors. you see joe was aware of the problem back in the day but has gotten soft in his old age. now the guys in charge of maintaining our beautiful trade in america ARE roofing contractors, NOT slaters. every single one of them installs more temporary roofs than permanent ones. that's sleeping with the enemy if you ask me.

now i know this is going to lead to the whole "slate is expensive" thing which is so foolish it's almost funny so i'll throw this out there. i buy natural products so i'll use this as an example. a natural bar of soap may cost around 5 bucks a bar. the price of this soap has not gone up much in the last couple decades. this may seem expensive but that's only compared to mass marketed, mass produced, chemical soap which may cost closer to 2 dollars a bar. the problem is not that natural soap is expensive. the problem is that most americans have no moral standard when it comes to what they put in and on their bodies. you see if everyone noticed the explosion of cancer and decided they were going to stop smothering themselves in dangerous chemicals, then 5 bucks a bar would become the new standard. the same goes with all of the rest of the items in our lives. it's only expensive "compared to what?"

a roof that lasts over a hundred years SHOULD cost more up front than one that only lasts 20yrs. but a roof that lasts a hundred years ALWAYS ends up costing FAR LESS than several temporary roofs. plus temp roofs fill our landfills with toxic waste, further our foreign oil dependancy, put thousands of SKILLED tradesmen out of work and force millions of americans further into debt each year. it's obvious that the biggest problem we face today is a highly "dumbed down" public. it's called life cycle costing by the way and you can apply it with great results to everything in life along with searching for truth!

good luck martin but you're in the wrong place at the wrong time to be so highly skilled. we are on the brink of becoming a completely consumer based economy which is the exact opposite of the industrial revolution. it's a tuff battle to remain here but someone's gotta do it! keep fighting martin, our time is coming!

Hey Martin; Welcome to both organizations!

http://www.slateroofcentral.com/messages/

Where I can find Joe`s forum ?

I just posted some pix on Joe's forum, of a nice roof I saw Wed. or Thurs.

Hi John I am also a member from Jo

Gosh Alba, that must mean that I am one of only 30 in Michigan. There are only 2 of us from Michigan in the Slate Roofers Association. I have certainly seen some BS work on Slate roofs up here.

WOW Alba,

Hope they will find me to teach some people or to do some roof there. I am willing to travel.

How can I intruduce myself and my slate and copper know how in the new england states?

I life here in Seminole FL.

Slate roofs are more common in the new england states.Slate roofers are a dying breed in US.The roofing contractors magazine quoted a superintedent saying that "there are only 30 people that know how to install slate in the state of michigan".I'm not sure if the roofs in southern states are designed to carry the weight of the slate.

Very good, nothing but GOOD can come out of a win, win situation like that