Homeowner Question: Is my modified bitumen roof installed correctly?

Album here: http://imgur.com/a/3NhKm

My new roof was installed last week. I had a 400 sq. foot section of flat roof that was supposed to receive modified bitumen. I wanted to add a bit of pitch but the estimator/project manager pushed back on that idea because he said the cost of framing would be exorbitant. All I really wanted was a couple of inches to eliminate the ponding so I asked about tapered insulation. He had never heard of it but asked his guy, came back with a reasonable price, and I approved it and signed the deal.

Well, when they showed up they came with standard 1/2 inch foam board from Lowe's. I shot that down immediately and made them try to find tapered insulation like I wanted while they seemed to have not ever heard of this product and insinuated it was some exotic material largely of my own imagining. (I replied, "Go on Google, search for "tapered insulation", and you will find it is manufactured by Owens Corning, GAF, Firestone, Johns Manville, etc.") Well, the price came back as "expensive" (I didn't ask) and the owner offered to frame out some pitch for the same price as the original agreement. As that was all I wanted in the first place, I agreed.

After the crew left, I went up to inspect my new "modified bitumen" roof membrane and found something that does not look like any modified bitumen membrane I am used to seeing. I have always seen cap sheets that pretty much resemble three tab or laminated/architectural shingles in texture and rigidity. This is almost smooth, with a very fine grain, and is very soft. It's squishy and you can't touch it when the sun is on it without leaving a mark.

As far as the roofing company is concerned, they are done. If this is a base sheet, they have no plans of coming back to put a cap sheet on. There are also some installation quality issues. I'm trying to get another company out here for an opinion but am curious what you folks think.

Thank you for your time.

Didn't read through all the replies - Probably in there somewhere-

Appears what you have exposed, is a cold-applied SBS base or interply or possibly a completed system cap sheet yet to be coated (flood/aggregate/reflective/etc.....), lack of appropriate sheet metal pipe jack(s)/edge metal & corresponding BUR flashing.

A real DIY-er type install.

If you're in a state that has authentic state contractor licensing, (NM, AZ, UT, ID, WA, ORE, NV, CA, or FL) simply call the state license board - if he's licensed, they'll make him correct it. If not licensed, they may or may not prosecute him, depending on the state's particular protocol. If you're in a state lacking state licensing - You're on your own with the applicable court system(s).....

IMO - By the sounds of it, (contractor's obvious lack of knowledge), you're either in a state lacking licensing or have succumbed to utilizing a non-licensed contractor in attempts to save $.

Good luck!

I've signed on with a new contractor for remediation. They do lots of commercial work with Duro-Last PVC and recommended that membrane in their 40 mil thickness. There's a two week lead time for the material to arrive and then they'll work me in as their installer becomes available.

wywoody Said:

As for my enjoyment of your pictures, if I got enjoyment from seeing ignorant, vindictive customers, there might have been some enjoyment. But I dont. You should have quit while you were ahead. People that need lawyers to tell them whats right to do are either scum or presidential candidates.

We've probably all had our disappointing encounters with lawyers, and I know we've all had disappointing customers. Maybe a few of us have even hired people of a trade outside of our expertise and been sorely disappointed. But when a "roofer" was willing to pawn himself off as knowing, take a man's money for TOTAL CRAP WORK, and that man who's money he's taking is one with which he has a seperate and unrelated business relationship, and when that man refuses further work from the "roofer" because of the crap he's experienced, and done so out of a sense of social responsibility toward other unknowing persons that would hire this "roofer" as a result of the man's work, and that roofer is unwilling to refund the money spent on the CRAP he installed, ....... forcing the man to consult a lawyer.?.?

I don't get scum, or presidential candidate out of that scenario.

The plan is to completely remove and start over. New substrate, properly sloped, and a new membrane. Just thought folks might appreciate an update and seeing what's happening to the material while I'm working through the process.

Gallery update for your enjoyment: http://imgur.com/a/zrSkC

Piles of sand are being released from the membrane as it wilts and dries out under the sun.

It's GAF rubberized base sheet.It seems like it has 2 plies.It's waterproof but it needs a reflective layer to protect it from the UV rays otherwise it'll start deteriorating.

It's been my experience that when the granulation is scuffed like that the UV Rays will eat that shingle up in a few years.

When I get the next contractor on-site, I'll see if they can take a peek at the fastener depth, placement, etc.

I am going to consult with a lawyer to see if this incompetence meets the bar for fraud. If so, I'll definitely pursue it to not only seek the return of my funds (so that they may be applied to remediation) but also as a public notice of their practices to warn any future clients who would not have recognized there was a problem.

Old School Said: I say live with it. good luck.

Just "live with it"? I would say to get all my money back and start over with a truly professional crew.

And, make sure those shingles are nailed in the right spot with at least 6 nails for that steep pitch. One of the biggest crimes in the roofing trade today is wrong nailing. Put a coil nailer in the hand of an idiot and all you get is a slapped on roof with a short lifespan.

Update: Thanks to everyone, and especially Mike H, for your help. After presenting my evidence and claims to the contractor, they have conceded. I've arranged a meeting with another contractor that does more commercial work to discuss options and get a quote. (I also refunded their deposit on our marketing agreement and canceled that project.)

The original contractor sent me an invoice for the balance on the project minus the faulty work and the work yet to be done, i.e. gutters. I'd like to wait until the project is complete before considering what to do on that point as it seems my property is at risk from the faulty installation and could incur damage related thereto in the time intervening.

I took some pictures of damaged shingles on the "good" part of the roof. This is the area most frequently trod on to gain access to work on the flat part and there seem to be way more areas where the granules were scraped off than I consider reasonable for a "new" roof: http://imgur.com/a/dXYZu

I'm weighing whether to ask the new contractor to replace those shingles as part of the next project and to debit that work from the original contractor's invoice.

Your thoughts/advice/wisdom are, again, appreciated.

Oh... I'm in Alabama frequently. I have an AL license, a good customer in Luverne, a hunting lease in Abbieville and vacation in the panhandle. Never done anything but drive through northern AL on 65, but i do it regularly. E male MikeAtHRI at aol period com if you want to discuss more. Put "RCS House Thread" in the subject line.

Yeah, I'm not letting these guys anywhere near this roof again. When I was at the warehouse and they were showing me the Firestone SBS Smooth, I saw rolls of Firestone SBS Cap in ultrawhite sitting right next to it. That makes it difficult, in my eyes, to plead simple ignorance/incompetence.

The prior roof had the pipes flashed with mod bit membrane, which is what I was expecting. I saw a pipe flashing tech sheet on the Firestone website (http://firestonebpco.com/assets/2013/03/dd_sbs-platinum_p_07_11-21-2010-pdf.pdf) and erroneously thought it was for a boot-type kit whereas it's actually just instructions.

Though I, too, hope to avoid court, I'm very grateful for the offer to testify. Our area (northwest AL) is an especially nice vacation spot if you like being in the outdoors.

For everyone's amusement/indignation, I've made a photo album of the roof 2 weeks post installation plus a few days of rain: http://imgur.com/a/ec89s

I'm still waiting to hear from my email to Firestone and missed the technical support hours for today. I'll try again tomorrow.

As I stated earlier, this product is not intended to be a finished roof surface. Now that we know for certain what it is,... SBS is highly susceptible to UV degradation. That's why all SBS cap sheets have a surfacing on them.

You can get away with this with an APP mod bit, but there's a whole other realm of skills necessary there, and it's rather obvious that Super Roofer doesn't have a clue.

Your "flashing", whatever it may be hidden under there, is supposed to be sandwiched between two layers of mod bit, even if you are only installing a one-ply system.

If you let this imbecile back on your roof, it's sort of like walking back into a cave, after a protective momma bear dun gived ya a warnin' oncet already.

My initial advice still stands, although if the guy really did add adequate slope with wood, you don't need the tapered insulation. Just find a qualified roofing CONTRACTOR to add a layer of material and the right metal edge.

If you stick with Firestone SBS Cap or SBS Torch, you are limited to your color choice. Firestone mod bits are good products, but they are geared toward the commercial industry. Polyglass and some others that are sold in the places that cater to a mixed bag of roofers/contractors are decent and tend to have a wider color choice. (did y'all know that if you type S E L E C T I O N as one word, all that shows up is "ion"?)

You can torch an APP over the sbs if you have a deft torch man that keeps the heat to the APP.

APP will hold granules longer and will not scuff on warm days, or during installation, so easily as SBS.

SBS, you can still use cold adhesive, though I AM NOT a fan of adhesive-only laps.

I have personally torched thousands of squares of APP mod bit, and even though I haven't done one myself in close to 20 years, I'm still one of the best torch guys in the company. It's people like the guy you hired that give the rest of us a bad name.

About the only thing he got right is the fact that there are no pre-fab boots for mod bit. But done properly, depending on the final type of product, you could have up to three layers with a target patch, then the field sheet, then a pipe wrap, resulting in a multi-ply layering at the 90 degree angle between pipe and roof deck.

However, some of the liquid applied flashings now available for mod-bit roof systems are EXCELLENT and if a roofer isn't capable of properly flashing a pipe, a gallon of liquid flashing and a roll of polyester mesh can make it watertight.

This sort of thing really wads my shorts. No one wins if this goes to court, but if it does, you get me to your location, and I'll testify for free.

I'm kind of loathe to let them fix this now. Aside from, once again, trying to convince me I don't know what I'm talking about, they also tried to sell me on the idea that the job they did was superior to another job in my neighborhood they had me check out, which was a high-end historic home with a flat section covered with granuled SBS cap color-matched to the shingles.

And we've had a couple of days of rain in the past few. The surface now has ripples and spots that feel like voids where it isn't adhered to the substrate. I'm not even sure if the decking they installed (OSB, in this case, of course) is even any good now and it may have to be redone too. Small claims court in my area is limited to $3000. I am still sitting on half of the money for the entire project, of which the modified bitumen section is only a small part.

Three heads you say? Cerberus had three heads. Wonder how he'd like facing him down. lol.

Just love that type of employee-henchman, hanging around in a cloud of ignorance thinking that getting a paycheck from someone in the industry qualifies him as a superior innaleck. Being humble has so, so much more power in it.

Hardly seems worth an attorney, though. I'd think armed with a statement from the manufacturer, a small-claims proceeding without attorneys would do. Building department involvement. When you drag in attorneys things can get unprofitable for everyone but them. Threaten to maybe...

Just seems like a slam-dunk matter-of-fact mistake that needs to be corrected in good faith. Tell them to ditch the pride and just get it done.