Homeowner Question: Is my modified bitumen roof installed correctly?

Oh... I'm in Alabama frequently. I have an AL license, a good customer in Luverne, a hunting lease in Abbieville and vacation in the panhandle. Never done anything but drive through northern AL on 65, but i do it regularly. E male MikeAtHRI at aol period com if you want to discuss more. Put "RCS House Thread" in the subject line.

Yeah, I'm not letting these guys anywhere near this roof again. When I was at the warehouse and they were showing me the Firestone SBS Smooth, I saw rolls of Firestone SBS Cap in ultrawhite sitting right next to it. That makes it difficult, in my eyes, to plead simple ignorance/incompetence.

The prior roof had the pipes flashed with mod bit membrane, which is what I was expecting. I saw a pipe flashing tech sheet on the Firestone website (http://firestonebpco.com/assets/2013/03/dd_sbs-platinum_p_07_11-21-2010-pdf.pdf) and erroneously thought it was for a boot-type kit whereas it's actually just instructions.

Though I, too, hope to avoid court, I'm very grateful for the offer to testify. Our area (northwest AL) is an especially nice vacation spot if you like being in the outdoors.

For everyone's amusement/indignation, I've made a photo album of the roof 2 weeks post installation plus a few days of rain: http://imgur.com/a/ec89s

I'm still waiting to hear from my email to Firestone and missed the technical support hours for today. I'll try again tomorrow.

If the homeowner is still sitting on half the money, the only way it would go to court would be if the roofer sued him.

If the homeowner is satisfied with the comp roof, he should pay 100% of that portion. Then talk to another roofer before deciding what to do with the flat roof portion.

As I stated earlier, this product is not intended to be a finished roof surface. Now that we know for certain what it is,... SBS is highly susceptible to UV degradation. That's why all SBS cap sheets have a surfacing on them.

You can get away with this with an APP mod bit, but there's a whole other realm of skills necessary there, and it's rather obvious that Super Roofer doesn't have a clue.

Your "flashing", whatever it may be hidden under there, is supposed to be sandwiched between two layers of mod bit, even if you are only installing a one-ply system.

If you let this imbecile back on your roof, it's sort of like walking back into a cave, after a protective momma bear dun gived ya a warnin' oncet already.

My initial advice still stands, although if the guy really did add adequate slope with wood, you don't need the tapered insulation. Just find a qualified roofing CONTRACTOR to add a layer of material and the right metal edge.

If you stick with Firestone SBS Cap or SBS Torch, you are limited to your color choice. Firestone mod bits are good products, but they are geared toward the commercial industry. Polyglass and some others that are sold in the places that cater to a mixed bag of roofers/contractors are decent and tend to have a wider color choice. (did y'all know that if you type S E L E C T I O N as one word, all that shows up is "ion"?)

You can torch an APP over the sbs if you have a deft torch man that keeps the heat to the APP.

APP will hold granules longer and will not scuff on warm days, or during installation, so easily as SBS.

SBS, you can still use cold adhesive, though I AM NOT a fan of adhesive-only laps.

I have personally torched thousands of squares of APP mod bit, and even though I haven't done one myself in close to 20 years, I'm still one of the best torch guys in the company. It's people like the guy you hired that give the rest of us a bad name.

About the only thing he got right is the fact that there are no pre-fab boots for mod bit. But done properly, depending on the final type of product, you could have up to three layers with a target patch, then the field sheet, then a pipe wrap, resulting in a multi-ply layering at the 90 degree angle between pipe and roof deck.

However, some of the liquid applied flashings now available for mod-bit roof systems are EXCELLENT and if a roofer isn't capable of properly flashing a pipe, a gallon of liquid flashing and a roll of polyester mesh can make it watertight.

This sort of thing really wads my shorts. No one wins if this goes to court, but if it does, you get me to your location, and I'll testify for free.

I'm kind of loathe to let them fix this now. Aside from, once again, trying to convince me I don't know what I'm talking about, they also tried to sell me on the idea that the job they did was superior to another job in my neighborhood they had me check out, which was a high-end historic home with a flat section covered with granuled SBS cap color-matched to the shingles.

And we've had a couple of days of rain in the past few. The surface now has ripples and spots that feel like voids where it isn't adhered to the substrate. I'm not even sure if the decking they installed (OSB, in this case, of course) is even any good now and it may have to be redone too. Small claims court in my area is limited to $3000. I am still sitting on half of the money for the entire project, of which the modified bitumen section is only a small part.

Three heads you say? Cerberus had three heads. Wonder how he'd like facing him down. lol.

Just love that type of employee-henchman, hanging around in a cloud of ignorance thinking that getting a paycheck from someone in the industry qualifies him as a superior innaleck. Being humble has so, so much more power in it.

Hardly seems worth an attorney, though. I'd think armed with a statement from the manufacturer, a small-claims proceeding without attorneys would do. Building department involvement. When you drag in attorneys things can get unprofitable for everyone but them. Threaten to maybe...

Just seems like a slam-dunk matter-of-fact mistake that needs to be corrected in good faith. Tell them to ditch the pride and just get it done.

Well, crap. Then it appears they've doubled down on this now.

I've read all the "Quick Spec" sheets (http://firestonebpco.com/technical-information/specifications-and-guides/quickspecs/asphalt-roof-systems/sbs-quickspecs/) and SBS Smooth is always referred to as a base sheet. Likewise in the Design Application Guide (http://firestonebpco.com/assets/2013/03/dg_sbs_designapplicationguide_10-01-2012-pdf.pdf). I also can't find any SBS cap sheets on their site with a smooth finish. (http://firestonebpco.com/roofing/asphalt-roofing-systems/sbs-roofing-systems/) They're all granuled.

I've submitted a contact form email to Firestone and included a link to my pictures. If I don't hear anything by the afternoon, I'll call technical support. I'd like to get them to comment on this installation on the record before having what will presumably be a final conversation on this matter with the contractor before lawyers get involved.

Thanks for all your help.

*When I told the project manager I had never seen a non-granuled SBS cap sheet before, he replied, "And how long have you been in the roofing business?" This was one of the guys who looked at me as if I had three heads when I started talking about tapered insulation.

What they showed me looked and felt like what's on the roof. I checked the roll and it was Firestone SBS Smooth. I thought I saw it marked as cap sheet but now that you put me on the spot I can't be certain about it.

For a complete and clear understanding of what is on your roof. Go to the supply house and ask to see the product. I'm not certain if the pics posted is what's on your roof. What I saw in the pic was not a smooth SBS cap sheet. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

I just returned from the contractor's office. The product used here is Firestone SBS Smooth (http://technicaldatabase.fsbp.com/downloadFile.ashx?fileId=%5Bfid=2372%7Cpid=765%5D) and it was cold applied. They said they put a seven inch flashing on the edges and then adhered the SBS to the flashing before face nailing. They did offer to touch up the cement where the seams aren't good but stated there's no prefab boot option for this product. I can't find much online about SBS smooth other than the spec sheet.

(Had to create a new account as the system didn't recognize my mail address.)

they used Ice and water shield.

Mike Hicks said it and it is true. They only did half of the job, and if you let that thing get rained on a couple of times, you won't be able to put modified over it either. In my wildest drunken dreams I could not do that to someone. If this homeowner is going to be doing a marketing campaign for these clowns, he had better figure that they are going to be needing a LOT of marketing because they sure as hell can't roof!

in the picture showing the closeup, the product used is thicker than 43# base sheet, probably Tamko Versabase.

There are many roofing companies that either financially or mentally refuse to take a loss on any project. They justify shortcuts by adhering to this philosophy. The roofer here, traded framing pitch for putting on a cap sheet and in his mind probably felt it was an even trade and fair. Take Mike's advice and never allow him back on your roof.

Here's the simple truth.

You have been hosed. The product used is not intended to be a finished exposed roof surface, the installation is not correct, nor is the product intended to be used as it was.

When your "contractor", and that's a term used more in jest than anything, did not know what tapered insulation was, you should have run, and what you got is as much your fault as his. You cannot say you didn't hear a voice in your head telling you there was trouble.?.? Ignoring that voice is the cause of most of our problems in life.

Maybe this guy is great on shingles, but at this point, your best bet is to take your 50% and hire a real roofing contractor to finish the job right.

From what I've read, you know what "right" is.... but here's a list. Get it in an itemized proposal.

Tapered ISO Wood nailers matching the insulation height. 160-180 mil modified bitumen, granule surfaced, or smooth and coated with Aluminum. Since you can see it, I'd say granules in a color chosen by you. 24 ga. Kynar finished metal edge flashing, again in a color chosen by you. Get a copy of his insurance and verification in writing that he is adequately insured, IF he burns your house down.

At least you have a nice base sheet for them to start on.

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said: Well Im not surprised, I wouldnt go beyond giving a verbal (without prejudice) opinion to the owner on something like that unless there was some kind of expert witness payment forthcoming, regardless of the outcome in the end, or a contract to redo or finish it as part of the discussions. Why would another contractor stick his neck out for nothing?.

I offered to pay for the assessment itself and to use their services for the redo if I proved unable to get the first contractor to rectify the situation.

What the heck does that mean?

One of the owners is my wife's friend and we are in the middle of a contract to perform some marketing work for them.

You need to sort this out face to face with them rather than discuss the situation on internet forums.

Agreed. However, given the entanglements mentioned above, I'm trying to gather information to make sure I'm informed on the topic and not coming off as an ignorant hothead.

Have you paid for any of the work?, sometimes that helps. If you havent, have they asked why?

I've paid fifty percent of the total. The second half isn't due until the gutter sub shows up to complete his work in a week or so.

I'll mull things over through the weekend and pay a visit to the office next week. I'll be sure to update and not leave you all hanging.