Have you ever worked with a Roof Consultant?

Syd-

I worked at the AOC from 1976 to 1980, construction management division. They just finished the Supreme Court addition I think it was. Do you may remember a local Baltimore roofer I think was called Warren-Errent-Link, or something like that? I know they were a full union outfit and that was the roofer that did the Dirksen. It was also coal tar BUR but also copper metal flat and standing seam panels. I fell in love with roofing watching them. What company did you work for then?

In regard to the A/E firms back then, I actually found them to be really, really stupid. The in-house staff of the AOC seemed much better at resolving issues than the Architects. I also work in the construction document division so I got to see all the submittals/record drawings, etc., come through and most of the comments were from us. We had a standing joke because the Architect has a stamp that read "Approved as Noted, resubmit" and then no notes would exist. The A/E put this literally on every document! We NEVER filed a document with a plain ole "Approved" stamp.

and oh, 10-ply.....damn!

CrisB; Although Griffens manual was part of the limited library available on BURs, I think the quote came from a local and notorious BA. Interesting that you worked for the Architect of the Capitol. We did a portion of the Supreme Court for him around 1975 w/ a 10 ply coal tar and fibreglass installation; and waterproofing @ House of Representatives. And as I recall, had a wonderful relationship resulting in successful installations where logistics were monumental. It is uncommon that A/E s entertain and/or acknowledge practical suggestions or recommendations offered by professional roofing contractors to improve a project.

WOW, really good comments and insight that parallels my thoughts (mostly). Old School - I actually worked on a commercial roofing project in the 1970's that was coal tar pitch over strip-mopped fiberglass (OC system) to a metal deck (old Kmart roof design) and that got me interested until the pitch burn set in with the fiberglass rash. :lol: Before that I was a construction clerk working for the Architect of the Capital building the new Library of Congress and extension to the Dirksen Senate Office building. That was actually my first look at "flat roofing" and I was hooked. After that Summer I worked for an engineering firm doing roof inspections and BUR testing. I have been an active consultant in roofing since 1980. I take tremendous pride in being able to "work" with quality contractors in the DC area and fight hard to be fair in all my dealings. I am also a member of RCI and stay active in yearly education training (seminars) required through RCI. I also try and read all the trade mags and lurk at appealing roofing forums.:woohoo:

With that being said, I do hear about problems within my trade about how poor roof consultants treat roofers, lack knowledge, etc., and how they screw up project after project. In my little world, I don't see this first hand and often wonder what the world thinks of us in general, hence my topic.

I have no reason to hide who I am and if your curious, you can visit our website at www.wccconsulting.com. I am not here to promote anything about me or the company I work for. I just want to participate in "on topic" discussions, if you will have me. I am not new to the Roofers Coffee Shop, but I have been gone awhile. As things slow down, I find myself drawn to this site again.

Syd - I think that quote came from C. W. Griffin's, "Manual of Built-up Roof Systems" and I agree 100%. It really applies to BUR systems in that it is the only typical construction product that is built "on-site" based on the science of the components and the skill of the applicator and what is required of both to be successful. With today's influx of single-ply systems, it has become less of an art and more about productivity. I have no less respect for the single-ply warriors but hold the "true" hot roofers as the kings of roofing. A good mop man and paper-setter still rules the roost! Unfortunately, they are becoming rarer as we speak. FYI, I still believe that a good 4-ply BUR is the best roof assembly out there (bang for the buck) but it's use continues to be less popular. It is very sad.

kage Said: An actual exp. roofer who becomes a consultant is good,one that just learnt it in skool...please.

You've got that right! :angry:

An actual exp. roofer who becomes a consultant is good,one that just learnt it in skool...please.

Vaa: I agree w/ your last paragraph. Unfortunately it would be critisized as a conflict of interest. Most times, roofing consultants are employed on projects w/ a number of competing contractors. To offset your concerns it is prudent for the buyer s agent to prequalify which companies are responsible/responsive.

http://rcs.si-sv2628.com/show_album_photo.asp?userid=30&AlbumID=92&file=593&s=0 This job comes to mind. Got held up for months because the inspcetor kept insisting I need to use a Velux Flashing Kit. He wanted me to install that gasket/channel kit that directs water under the roof, into a channel, then back ontot he roof. He could not conceive/understand that an uncut panel, with 1/4" clearance around/beside the lites would work better. :woohoo:

Twice. No issues, but I had to answer questions when I deviated from a written spec. A few minutes of hands-on show and tell, and maybe a bucket of water always cleared things up. :cheer:

Some BI's can be a pain in the ass with their limited knowledge. I now prefer to work where a permit and an idiot aren't required. :blink:

That was a great post, Syd and I saved it for my files.

My two cents:

Everyone has a bias so there's not much point in trying to create a consultant who doesn't have one. The point is always to strive for a bias that is ethically and technically defensible. The more information and experience a consultant has, the wider-ranging it is, the better the odds of decent product selection. The more wisdom and tact, the better the odds of decent performance supervision. I'd say Woody's got it dialed in with the concept of third-party advocate who gets and keeps everybody on the same page. In a good but not perfect world, a consultant can be a real asset. Otherwise a consultant would invariably devolve into some combination of cheap cop, petty bureaucrat, demagogue, parrot, & pimp.

I was once told that roofing is an art rather than a science. In my book, many disciplines are required to be labeled a roofing consultant. Unfortunately too many charlitans go around masquerading as consultants. Many of them originated as manufacturers representatives confident that their training qualified them to professional status. Although this education should not be ignored, they should realize it was formulated and focused on their employers products as opposed to the numerous solutions available within the industry. Insofar as architects and engineers assuming the title of "roofing consultants" they also have limited experience, too often guided by manufacturers reps. At an NRCA conference in San Francisco in 1987, I will never forget a speech by the Dean of Yale Architectual School admitting that his students are taught the big picture of their designs and that they leave the details of roofing to the professional roofing contractors. It is just these details that spell the success or failure of a roofing installation. Personally, I began my journey in this business in 1940 when at the age of 12, the foreman told me to go back to the shop and bring a "skyhook". The balance of my training in the "art" of roofing was furnished by my father, brother, and a dozen knowledgeable foremen, from shoveling the slag pile to swinging a mop. My science background was a BS in Engineering and retired PE in State of Pa. However, this education could put me at a disadvantage in becoming a roof consultant, because a potential liabilty would be involved because of my professional training, which in turn meant onerous insurance premiums. Therefor I chose to spend my days as a contractor, as opposed to operating naked as many consultants do.

Hi Chris, welcome aboard! :) I work in the residential arena so i don't run into many roof consultants. Maybe its just my area i dont know but the few i have ran into didn't know if they were scratching their watch or winding up their arse! lol No offense to you. I dont know you and you might be the most educated roof consultant on earth. Im just doing like you mentioned and being honest at all times. I wouldn't have a problem at all with a roof consultant if they knew their stuff. ( And didn't undermine my knowledge ) Their are dozens of different ways that people do things in different areas of the world, the country, the states, and the countys and citys within the states. Even roofers in the same area do not do things the same. That does not necessarily make one roofer right and the other roofer wrong. It just depends. A highly professional, experienced roofer can and will price a job and do it any way you want it as long as you pay his price and what you want is not going to cause a problem. I've had homeowners surf the net for months, ( reading god knows what part of the worlds way to roof ) and then become their own roof consultant. One elderly gentleman wanted so many extras done above code and above the norm that it was going to be ridiculously tedious to work with him and his "requests". ( it would have required my own personal supervision of every second of the work and i don't normally work on the jobsite ) So i had to add $1,000 extra to do all the silly things he wanted done based on his " roofing education " he got over the net.

Chris Thanks for revealing your self. From behind the veil . Jet didn't mean anything more than a stick to poke the embers with . He is a good guy despite himself B) :laugh: :laugh: B) Nice having you on board in a interactive way . Diversity is the answer and a roof consultant can only be helpful . Glad to have you on board. Welcome !!!!