Have you ever worked with a Roof Consultant?

I hope I don't come to regret this topic but I am truly willing to take all the good with the bad. I find it helpful to be the best I can be in my profession and aside from the obvious trait to be honest at all times, I am will to learn from others experiences. I normally work with only commercial roofing contractors and very few residential (individual) projects, but would like to hear anyone's experiences. Specially, do find roof consultants to be generally good or bad for your profession?

I admit that most of the time I am a "lurker" on this site but I gotta tell everyone that I have learned a lot by doing that. This is a valuable site to understand what everyone is going through in all aspects of your business. I really do admire the specialty skills that get shared in copper, slate, unusual repairs, etc. Even learning about "The King's" vacation plans in sunny FLA! B)

Also, BUR with a gravel surface does not always outlast BUR with a cap sheet and cap sheets do not always blister. If moisture can penetrate a ply and cannot get out the way it got in, or cannot get out fast enough, when it vaporizes it is going to pry apart the ply sheets. That part I can understand, but a cap sheet is going to allow out-gassing too. Just consider the ceramic granules as tiny rocks. I don't know about non-asphaltic coatings. No real exposure to them. I can only suspect they would tend to 'lift' from the asphalt surface.

This isn't making a whole lot of sense to me. I suspect there are too many things going on at the same time and getting all mixed together in the discussion. If I'm not mistaken, asphaltenes are not created by weathering, they already exist in the oils. Maybe this points to flocculation, but deep alligatoring imo is a structural thing, not really a chemical thing per se. As it goes through temperature cycles a heavy asphalt glaze reveals to all the world that it has very little elongation power. It cracks. Use it as a relatively thin layer bound to and between reinforcement sheets and it hangs in there pretty well. Leave it out in the open, spread thick, on its own and subject it to stress and it's a goner, about as much hope of surviving intact as a scab on flexing flesh.

Vaa; From a lecture I attended, speaker mentioned that asphalts are somewhat soluble, and age about 3%/year into asphaltenes - (much like brown stains remaining arround the bathtub). In my book, I think they age far more than that - probably in the area of 20%/year. My first experience w/ asphalt was in 1940, when I reported the condition of a new roof to my dad that it was severely alligatored, and the materials were topnotch - Trinidad Asphalt. I then learned coating was just too heavy . IMHO smooth asphalt roofs can weather indefinitely contingent on inspection and recoating every 3 years. This is particularly true on the modifieds. Insofar as the fuming issue, this was rectified by the manufacturers when felts were perforated.

Old School: Pitch is an aromatic hydrocarbon (asphalt is an aliphatic hydrocarbon) and is similar to the benzene molecule, thus the distinct odor of moth balls as opposed to odorless asphalt. It was the original bitumen used in our industry, and its life expectancy is far superior than todays products. OSHA has made it very difficult for the roofers to apply this system, cause their regulations are based on the manufacture where workmen are subject to its fumes, 40hrs/week - 52 weeks/year; which hardly befits roofers exposures when used sporadically. Ironically, the premier spec of the local, state and federal governments was CTP that spanned 40 to 80 years.

Chewin on a chunk of asphalt I've done. Chewin on coal tar??? Dunno bout dat.

CIAK Said: That is a good point Mike .The organics had holes in them vented inner plys I believe they were called . The gravel or marble did a lot of things . Kept a good ballast .Kept the sun off . Especially here DEEP DOWN IN FLORIDA WHERE THE SUN SHINES DAMN NEAR EVERY DAY when it would bubble with the gravel it would settle quickly with the weight of the gravel . I used to pick up CTP and chew it as a way of telling if it was really old CTP or asphalt. Grossed more than one building maintenance man or inspector on that kind of behaviour. Plus boost the immune system B) :laugh: :laugh: B)

CIAK Said: Yeppers coal tar is used in a lot of application . Someone truly truly stupid and ignorant may not recognize. Next time anyone eats something with Blue dye might want to reconsider . Ceptin a rat ... Blue No. 1and other colors used in foods have coal tar as one of its components. Because of the use of coal tar, many organizations and circles are speaking out and boycotting products using colors with coal tar because it is a carcinogenic in large quantities, known to cause tumors in rats. Of course if you swallow ah Ill leave that to your own imagination B) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: B) Of course I didnt chew it like gum . It was more for the shock value . Just bite it and spit it out . On that note dont chew gum because it is petroleum based and you know how truly stupid it is to put petroleum in your mouth Need I go on ??? I hope you get my indirect not so subtle reference critical and disapproving insinuations. B) :laugh: :laugh: B)

.....Keep backpeddlin' dude....ROTFLMAO

ROTFLMAO What a hoot whew!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeppers coal tar is used in a lot of application . Someone truly truly stupid and ignorant may not recognize. Next time anyone eats something with Blue dye you might want to reconsider . Ceptin a rat ... Blue No. 1and other colors used in foods have coal tar as one of its components. Because of the use of coal tar, many organizations and circles are speaking out and boycotting products using colors with coal tar because it is a carcinogenic in large quantities, known to cause tumors in rats. Of course if you swallow ah I'll leave that to your own imagination B) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: B) Of course I didn't chew it like gum . It was more for the shock value . Just bite it and spit it out . On that note don't chew gum because it is petroleum based and you know how truly stupid it is to put petroleum in your mouth Need I go on ??? I hope you get my indirect not so subtle reference critical and disapproving insinuations. B) :laugh: :laugh: B) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Interesting thread. We never did much with the built-up roofs, but I do remember the perforated #15 or was it 15# felt used in built-up roofing. It would let the air bubbles right out of the system. I know that is not exactly what you are talking about, but it did let out the bubbles.

I used to walk on the roof and just take a piece of asphalt and crack it and smell it. Coal tar has its' own smell for sure. Like I said earlier, I am sure they could make a good asphalt for hot or also a good Coal tar Pitch, but it would be expensive and it would probably be illegal according to the EPA or someone up there. THEY would probably be the ones that speced it on their own roof too. Go figure.

egg, The fumes from pitch will make you truly sick, the dust from a tear off will at best leave you badly burnt on any exposed skin if it gets to react with the sweat and at worst lead you to the ER. I can only imagine someone truly, truly stupid would put pitch in their mouth.

Well good morning to you too, Jed. rotfl

Never did work with pitch except for that Koppers hell in a can on rare occasions, but the guy I broke in with told me not to chew on asphalt because it would remove the dentine. That became one of those little anomalous studies I never pursued so I honestly couldn't say, but I can only imagine chewing on pitch would not be to my liking. Maybe you could put it in a relleno?

That is a good point Mike .The organics had holes in them vented inner plys I believe they were called . The gravel or marble did a lot of things . Kept a good ballast .Kept the sun off . Especially here DEEP DOWN IN FLORIDA WHERE THE SUN SHINES DAMN NEAR EVERY DAY when it would bubble with the gravel it would settle quickly with the weight of the gravel . I used to pick up CTP and chew it as a way of telling if it was really old CTP or asphalt. Grossed more than one building maintenance man or inspector on that kind of behaviour. Plus boost the immune system

"have you ever noticed how T&G ( gravel surfaced BUR) roofs seem to last longer! Thats because the bitumens can breath". Mike, Last longer than what? I have never seen an asphalt based BUR outlast a CTP based one.

Cid, Thanks, I misread that Chris was the one who installed the ten ply.

ciak, Chewing on pitch will likely result in some really nasty blisters inside the mouth due to the sulphur content, so you were probably chewing on something else.......bullshit or maybe something similar....."i dunno" (sic)

Jed: I thought I explained 10 plies of felt in previous post. Here goes again: applied 45# base sheet as vapor barrier in hot asphalt; installed tapered foamglas in hot;installed 2 plies of jute (fabric) in hot;spec called for 5ply of tarred felt (inasmuch 5 ply lines aren t shown on sheet) laid up 2ply then 3ply of tarred felts(15#/) in pitch, for a total of 10plies of felt/fabric by weight. Incidentally, these folks go first class; all metal work done w/ lead coated copper. Vaa: IMHO bitumens don t breathe for their perm rating is practically zero. The greatest detriment to BUR s is the UV, and the gravel surfacing isolates the bitumens. I was told many years ago that pitch undergoes cold flow from 40 degrees F on up, thus is self sealing for most of its life. It also resists water because of its tight aromatic molecular structure.

That is a good point Mike .The organics had holes in them vented inner plys I believe they were called . The gravel or marble did a lot of things . Kept a good ballast .Kept the sun off . Especially here DEEP DOWN IN FLORIDA WHERE THE SUN SHINES DAMN NEAR EVERY DAY when it would bubble with the gravel it would settle quickly with the weight of the gravel . I used to pick up CTP and chew it as a way of telling if it was really old CTP or asphalt. Grossed more than one building maintenance man or inspector on that kind of behaviour. Plus boost the immune system B) :laugh: :laugh: B)

TELL ME ABOUT THE 10 PLY SYSTEM PLEASE! thank you.

Regarding coal tar pitch: when I first became acquainted w/ this material, its melting point was 120 degrees F: and when I retired 5 years ago I think it was rated @ 135 F. I am sure its physical properties were altered when the EPA in their infinite wisdom required manufacturers to reduce the sulfur content. In doing so, the finest waterproofing product available to our industry and in fact the world for milleniums was sacrificed on the altar of progress. Insofar as bitumen bubbles, this phenomenon was discussed at NRCA conventions, and I think it became most evident when involved w/ urethane insulations. Chris: I only knew Bob Linck - insofar as trade union stories, my Mama once told me "If you can t say good, don t say nuthin" - period.