What’s HOT in Roofing, Coffee Conversations LIVE from IRE - Day 2 - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Wendy Marvin, Charles Antis, Greta Bajrami, Mandy McIntyre and Rudy Gutierrez at IRE 2021. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the webinar. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Welcome to Coffee Conversations Live. We're going to have a possible echo in our ear because we are really doing something way out there. Not only do we have our panelists, but we had two online. We're looking down here at the conversation, at the laptop, sorry. Coffee Conversations. We are doing it live at the National Roofing Expo, and we are talking to everyone who is right now on the floor. Can you see this? Look all over the floor. I see contractors walking by. Then we are here with our RCS influencers who are contractors. Yesterday, we talked to distributors and manufacturers. Today, we're going to talk to contractors. I'm going to have everybody introduce themselves, and we're going to work away, so our team is going to introduce with their name, their company, location and I'm going to make sure we don't have the echo. Okay. Hold on one sec. Go ahead, Wendy.

Wendy Marvin:
Okay. I am Wendy Marvin. I am the CEO and owner of Matrix Roofing, and we are located in the state of Washington down by Portland, Oregon.

Charles Antis:
Thanks, Wendy. I'm Charles Antis, and I am the founder and CEO at Antis Roofing and Waterproofing in Irvine, Orange County, California. We service the HOA market from San Diego on down.

Greta Bajrami:
Hi, everyone. My name is Greta Bajrami. I'm the owner and founder of Golden Group Roofing, and we're located in Boston, Massachusetts, and we service the greater Boston area.

Rudy Gutierrez:
Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Rudy Gutierrez, and I'm president and CEO of Shell Roofing Solutions Group in California.

Mandy McIntyre:
I'm Mandy MacIntyre with First Choice Roofing. I'm the Operations Officer here, and we are located in Cleveland, Ohio. We're a commercial and just getting back into residential after dropping residential last year at the worst time, now that we can't get commercial materials, but we also specialize in historic restoration and preservation.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Excellent. Thank you, Mandy. Thank you, Rudy, and thank you all out there. What we're doing is, we are starting now with really hearing from the contractors on what they're seeing. I want to start with Wendy here and I want to talk to Wendy. We have folks from all over the country, as you can see. What's happening in the Pacific Northwest?

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah. Pacific Northwest, we're starting to see the impact of the shortages. I think we were living a little bit of the surplus that they had out there. We're back down to pretty much black or gray and anything that is any color mix and it's not manufacturer specific. It's anybody. We're seeing significant delays up to three to six months for deliveries. We have a really good relationship with our distributors, so they're helping us source not only from their company, but from other companies. I think that's a big takeaway, to try to keep those relationships fresh and good because yeah, they can be your ally. Yeah.

Then we're starting to see a shortage of the other weird things that have come up, like plastic. Nobody seems to be talking about that, but plastic fence and different things, and so we're starting to see shortages in that and silicone is what we're hearing is coming down the road, too, now.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Your coatings.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah. Well, and your pipe fittings in your residential, just there's all kinds of applications for that. We're feeling a little unsettled, just in what we're doing. We're getting all these jobs. We're booked into October, November right now, but are we going to be able to service them? We're trying to get resources available and keep them in house while we can.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. The market's not slowing down, but the materials that we have, demand here, materials here. That's a huge gap in trade.

Wendy Marvin:
Manufacturing is trying to keep up. I think our GAF rep said a couple of weeks ago that they were 4 million squares short already.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Wendy Marvin:
[crosstalk 00:04:21] I'm thinking pretty sure he said squares. I think that's just indicative, is they're just, they can't keep up.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Charles, what are you seeing down in Southern Cal?

Charles Antis:
We see the same thing. We see the same thing wherever we look, however, I'm feeling it a little differently because we're in a drought and we don't have the big rush. A lot of my friends in companies across the country, they're, affected a lot more. For us, we're watching this, and we noticed that, like plywood, if you go into our warehouse, we have a huge warehouse. It's like 8,000 square feet. It's three stories high. We just have stacks and stacks of plywood because we don't want to go pay $75 a sheet for it when we could lock it in for $30, which we have. There's a lot of things that we've had to guess on. We've guessed and we've gone wrong in the past, but I think right now we're being blessed for guessing.

It's not just in the plywood. It's not just in the roofing product, but we see this everywhere. I live in a place that I have access to 13 pools. They're all closed. You know why? There's no chlorine.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Charles Antis:
Suddenly, there's no chlorine. If there's chlorine, any roofing product, or one of those other elements, we will hit another disruption. I think we have to learn to be really flexible and go back, which we'll speak more on today, but you mentioned, Wendy. It all comes down to the relationships. If you have solid relationships with your manufacturers through computers, you will find a way to get material. It comes down to relationships and how you build them.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah, that is. You know what? It's so important, too, because I think that homeowners, using the chlorine example, homeowners or consumers are figuring out that there's shortages. It's not as hard a conversation, but Greta, what are you seeing in the Northeast?

Greta Bajrami:
The same thing. It's been a great year and we've had demand. There's never been a demand for roofing than this year, but at the same time, the flip side of that is that for the first time, we are in trouble where we don't know if we're going to be able to accommodate a certain client based on the selection. We're trying to push people towards grays and blacks. When it comes to color, we're not sure if something's going to change along the road. For the first time ever in my company, we don't like to put deadlines on projects and we have to change that, right? We had to put out on bids and then put deadlines on those bids, something that we'd never done before, but it was a new world that we had to be a part of.

I think one thing I keep speaking about, and I hope the manufacturers hear me, is that I think although price increases are necessary, you have to find a way to do it tastefully, because we are going to speak for the lot of the sales team that come to me, is that they're getting a little bit torn in between all these price changes. They're losing a little bit of stability out there when they're proposing, where they don't know if they should go a little higher, if their commissions are going to be impacted, if they're going to be able to, if they're going to lose a proposal altogether. That's my concern at it all. My concern at it all is, how do we continue? How do we bring supply up, but in a way so it allows people that sell this product and are part of this industry, not to be the sole impact?

Charles Antis:
Wait, that's brilliant. That's brilliant, putting a fuse on the signing of the contract. Not only can you regulate material, but you'll actually improve the chance of closing that sale. I'm going to borrow that, if you don't mind.

Wendy Marvin:
Can I also throw out, one of the things Greta said that we haven't talked about yet is this constant increase in pricing. Most distribution centers run pricing, and this is a little insider knowledge, but run pricing on a tiered system. Right? Top tier one is typically your entry level piece, and then they lower the tiers as you've been with them longer. It makes sense because we're less of a credit risk. You know what I mean? As you go forward, but with this freight train of pricing changes, you really have to have somebody on top of watching your pricing so that the PO that goes to them is actually what you're being charged, because I can tell you over the course of the years in 14 years in business, I've found more than $150,000 in errors.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Wendy Marvin:
It isn't a small thing. Right now, when this is changing so fast, you need to know what date the change is, and then you need to watch the POs as they come in and the bills as they come in and make a match for POs.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Make sure they're not going in at that newer price. Exactly.

Rudy Gutierrez:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not that far from Charles and his business. The challenges are the same, but I think with what Charles said, Wendy said it as well, communication. Pre-planning is very important. We've had more conversations with distribution as of late than we've ever had, including our manufacturing reps. I think getting ahead of the projects are very key. Getting as much information upfront from our client has been also key. You may have to be forced to think out of the box, like staging materials in your warehouse like Charles did.

Yeah, we've had to get creative. We do have some challenges, particular in the area of the end of third quarter, middle of fourth quarter, where maybe the materials aren't going to be available. Projects are getting pushed back a little bit further out. There are some challenges out there, but communication has been the very key factor here.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. That's what we've been hearing a lot here, Rudy, at the show is how important communications is. As Charles said, and Wendy, everybody, your relationships. Mandy, what are you seeing in Ohio?

Mandy McIntyre:
Well, I think we are experiencing just the same thing that everyone's been talking about, the material shortages and all the trouble with that. Obviously, communication is key with customers and with suppliers. I think with communication, it's also setting those expectations with your customers, being upfront with them that we're getting ship dates of February 2022 right now. We are relaying that information to our customers and just being honest with them, but then it's also an opportunity too, to do some maintenance contracts, do some repairs, to get them by until they can replace the roof, offering alternatives such as coatings or maybe a re-roof if they don't necessarily need a tear off.

As far as our contracts with our customers, we can't do any LDs right now. We do have clauses in there for MVPs, material, escalation, protection clauses to save us because some of our orders, our price is not solidified until it's delivered. Those are a lot of the challenges, but it's an opportunity to be creative and to help the customer at least get by until we can replace that roof.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Mandy, I have a question for you because you do a lot of alternative high end residential roofing, or a historic building. I was in your shop, the slate and the copper, so impressive.

Mandy McIntyre:
Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know a lot of people are looking for alternative products. Are you seeing it across the board, even with slate and copper?

Mandy McIntyre:
Well, copper is always a commodity that goes up and down a lot just because it's copper. With tile, we're fortunate in Ohio, we have Luissi, which produces tile about three hours south of us. That hasn't really been an issue, and we have had some historic projects that wanted to do a roof replacement in certain sections where they had tile, but now what they want to do is just restore that those tile sections, which is a benefit to us because it can keep our crews busy. It's something that we can get the materials more easily, and it helps. I love history, so it helps protect the historic integrity of the building, as well. That really hasn't been an issue with specialty stuff like that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I would say, everybody out there, you have the opportunity to go to First Choice website. Look at some of their historic renovations. They are amazing. They are really, it was just a super fun day. National Women in Roofing, Cleveland, hands on, it was cool. I'm going to change the topic a little bit. Sorry. If it feels like a squirrel, I'm a squirrel. Usually, it's you, Charles. I know, seriously. Okay. All right. I want to talk about where we're at. Everyone's tired of talking about COVID, and when we put the questions together, I said, "Oh, how are we on post-COVID work world? We're not post-COVID." Really want to talk about going forward when everything is changing, and I want to talk because I love our influencers here. They're all about culture and their company culture.

Maybe let's just share with everyone out there, what you're seeing on how it has affected culture when you're talking about safety testing and all of the things that are going along with the pandemic and then hopefully moving forward. How are you handling that in your business? Wendy, let's start with you.

Wendy Marvin:
Well, I think to address the first part of your question, the one thing I want to say is the panic is over. That absolute terror, that furor that COVID had us in, we figured it out, right? We've proven that we can figure out whatever else comes along. The dynamics of the problem maybe changed, but we've figured out that initial "holy world is ending" thing, we're okay with that, which I think is a good thing. Living in that place of terror, it's not a good place for business.

From a culture standpoint, it's been challenging, we split off and had people working from home in the first time ever. We've never done that. Keeping those people engaged and positive and hopeful and informed has been ... We have weekly meetings with those people, but when you're not face-to-face with somebody and you're not able to have that water cooler conversation, it really makes a difference with the interactions with people and the closeness of your team. That's a big part of our culture. We treat each other in our company like we are family, always have. Trying to build that environment where people don't leave right now, that's a struggle.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Wendy Marvin:
I think the people that we have left, we've lost some people, but the people that we have left are embracers of the technology, are people who are going to be problem solvers going forward, which is really what we need. Then on the COVID side of it and the masks and mandates, we've taken a real soft approach to that. I think it's an individual decision. I understand the impact of having somebody who chooses not to vaccinate in your company, but I also have vaccine-injured family members, and I understand. We're just trying to all be aware of what we're doing. If you're running a fever, don't come to work. It doesn't matter, vaccinated or not. We want you to have hand washing stations, stay up with the cleaning, taking care of each other, and stay home when you need to. We're giving them the resources to do that. We're going to have more vaccines to deal with. We're going to have more.

Vegas has locked down now for masks and we heard Oregon just went, Multnomah county, and now I'm sure the state of Washington will be following next. We'll be back down into lock downs, and hopefully we can all just push back where we need to and try to keep it reasonable and not want hot water hand washing stations on the roof again, because that's just not realistic.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's not right. Charles, you were all about culture. How have you dealt with this?

Charles Antis:
Well, I think first of all, being somebody who understands means I understand that all the groups of stakeholders out there, and I understand that it's my job to message to all of them, not to part of them. You have to stand back. First of all, look where you live. I live in Southern California. I don't live in Texas or Florida or Minnesota or Chicago. The messaging that I'm going to present about this is going to be very much stained by everyone around me, or I'm an idiot, right? I'd be an idiot. I wouldn't have a successful company if I didn't listen.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Charles Antis:
My messaging is going to be a little bit more socially forward than some places because that's where I live. You know what? I actually started to feel and believe in those things. On all of this, I don't have a lot of opinions. I stay between the lines. I don't watch the news. I don't watch CNN. I don't watch Fox because I'm going to get spun. I'm not trying to make a statement. I'm saying to some extent, I'm going to be spun. I get my message from OSHA, and we have to relate to that. We get it from all of the government agencies that we are affiliated, we're under the umbrellas of, and then we decipher within our culture.

We don't have the same opinions. My VPs and myself have different opinions. When I was asked to do a public announcement about vaccination and when I was asked to do a public announcement, to talk about masking, I didn't want to, but I knew I could do it by where I live and because I think it was a good idea in relative speaking. I'm not an expert, and that's what I do.

Charles Antis:
Once you listen to your people and your message comes in between it all, your people trust you because they see you're trying. They might. I don't think my employees think I have a hard opinion.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Charles Antis:
They know I'm trying to live the company the best I can, and as far as what I do, what I do in public, I have to think about that again, by where I live. when I'm confused about how I'm going to act in public, I reach out to one of my board member friends who's a VP at the Anaheim Ducks or somebody. What do we do? They have a lot more PR influence, and they'll tell you where you live. They'll remind you where you live, and they'll remind you how to message. I think it's critical that you do that. If you do that, you'll be heard inside and outside your company. You'll sell roofs. Your employees will be more safe.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. That is so true. Greta?

Greta Bajrami:
Yeah, company culture is obviously very important. We saw a lot of shifts. I'll speak on a few different shifts, and the most shifts I think that anybody saw was that people don't have to be productive in a 40 hour work week. I think that's something that was a big mind shift for a lot of people that I'm in a circle with. They thought that office managers had to clock in everyday. They thought there had to be Monday morning meetings, and they started to realize that maybe a lot of those stuff were not necessary.

We switched everything where we're no longer really measuring time, but we're measuring productivity. we're measuring success. It allowed those office employees to really have the perks that the sales members had or the production managers had for the first time. I think that was incredible, and that was a great shift for us culturally, as a company, where everybody had the same benefits now, where office people weren't just office people stuck within the building for eight, nine hours a day. That was that really first push.

When it comes to vaccination, obviously I'm in Massachusetts and Massachusetts has a very high vaccination rate. I think it was 75% last time I checked. That doesn't mean that I made it a requirement to work. We do have a lot of people who have spiritual beliefs and live holistic lifestyles. We can't force those people, but we can implement safety in other ways. That was something that I did. I of course said, "Well, what is the goal?" The goal is to protect everybody. In vaccinations, that's the way we handled it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Rudy, how are you handling it?

Rudy Gutierrez:
Obviously, just like all of you, last year, we were all forced to pivot. I think Mindy said it perfectly. We listened to the experts. I'm in the same situation as Charles. I have to defer to what our local state and federal officials are saying to protect the entire company, not just me. It's the reason why I'm not sitting with you today. I was exposed to someone with COVID, and my team decided that we needed to stay back. We have to cancel all of our events because of that. Anyway, we were all forced to pivot. We redirected our energies as far as sales, just like Mindy's company did. Service grew for us. Re-roofing grew for us. We grew our business during a global pandemic.

As far as our culture, I stay informed. I don't make decisions that are for the company that are more personal. I reach out to my friends that are very intelligent in areas out of California. I have friends in in the roofing industry in Texas, Ohio, New York, throughout. We communicated and got perspective. I certainly follow CDC guidelines, and it is a non-issue in our company at the moment. I respect everybody's personal situations, but it is a non-issue. We've stayed safe because we followed guidelines. My own personal views don't come into play. Otherwise, I would be sitting with you guys today. Certainly, caution must be the key. Safety is primary.

Mandy McIntyre:
When everything first hit, being in Ohio, actually, our state was one of the first states to really start locking things down with Ohio State University, went remote. Our governor started doing, issuing a bunch of mandates, and that was an early March. We just rolled with that. Luckily, we were able to do so, being that we're paperless. Everything is through an app on our service tech and foreman's phones. We were able to transition fairly quickly. We didn't have any COVID cases until this year, actually, in our company.

One of the biggest challenges culturally, as far as company culture, was mental health, really. I saw a lot of people have a multitude of challenges with this pandemic, both personal and professional. We did lose some people, not because of COVID. They just went in a different direction. There was a big disconnect between the office and the field crews, because they were still out there doing their thing, keeping the business going, but we at the office for six weeks were working remotely at home. One of my foremen said to me. I always say I have an open door policy. You can come talk to me about whatever. I'm a huge health and wellness advocate. I'm a yoga teacher, so it's just in my nature. He was pissed. He was like, "We were out there putting ourselves on the line while you guys were safe at home." This was early on when no one really knew what to expect. I was like, "You're right. You're absolutely right."

We tried to connect that gap that it felt like there was all of a sudden two separate companies, almost: the office staff and the field staff. There was no interaction. We tried to do safely more team meetings, more just interaction. We took all the proper precautions, and then we started getting COVID cases in our company. It was a real challenge trying to keep people happy and keep morale going and also be safe. We instituted a wellness program that was through our state actually, and it's free. I advise everyone to look into your state to see what your workers' comp has to offer, because Ohio has a great wellness program. It's free health counselors, tele-health just a plethora of things.

That was our biggest challenge, and I think just now, we're starting to feel that we're coming together again, but now we have this Delta variant and everything. I think it's just it's just an ebb and flow right now with COVID. Just when you think you've tackled one issue, another one comes

Heidi Ellsworth:
Mandy, this is the first time I've really heard this from someone saying, talking about this issue. I think it's so cool. There was a discrepancy, or there could be cultural problems between the people who worked at home and had to go home and work remote and those that had to, were working on the roof and were going out. They were like our first responders, right? They were our first line, and they were at a lot more risk for catching COVID than the people at home. Mandy had had those conversations with her employees to try to bridge that gap so they felt like they were all in it together and working in the safety precautions.

Now, for all of you watching, you just heard Mandy say all that, but I just thought it was such an excellent point. Did you have those similar? Did you have some of that?

Wendy Marvin:
Absolutely. Absolutely. First responders is a great way to say it, because they're out there. They're willing and able and everything, but at the end of the day, they had a lot of extra concerns. Then the people at home, even the people at home flipping over to being. The guys in the field would be like, "That's not that big of a deal," but the people at home, we've had people that we've known that haven't been out of their house for eight months in a year. Their idea of the world out there is even different.

Even on the flip side of that, it's just about ... I don't know. I just feel like we're at this place where we just need to give everybody grace and just be like, "This is hard for you, and it's hard for me." It's hard for us as owners, but it's rough. To have those hard conversations, Mandy, that's amazing. Take this head on.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. What I'm hearing from all of you is, and I love what I hear, is kindness. Lead with kindness, safety for everyone, working together. want to shift just a little bit because I just have all these topics I want to ask you guys about.

Greta Bajrami:
Okay, let's do it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I'm going to actually start. I'm going to go backwards. I'm going to start with Mandy, and this is a crazy question, but I'm from Oregon and we're in the middle of wildfires, right? They are affecting not just obviously people's livelihood, but they're affecting the type of products that have to go on the roof. It's affecting testing. Is the climate change? Sorry, everybody. I don't think that's the best word anymore, but it is changing, and we have seen extreme weather from droughts to wildfires to hurricanes. I know in Ohio, you guys had some straight line winds. You've had all kinds of turbulent weather. How are you handling that as a roofing company in responding, especially in this time and age when labor and material are scarce?

Mandy McIntyre:
We're actually in a pretty fortunate area of the country, as far as natural disasters. We do have storms. We do have high winds, but we don't really get hail. We don't get hailstorms. We don't have wildfires. We don't have earthquakes. We don't have hurricanes, so really, it's just the wind. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does. The best thing that we can do is just, when we're safely able to get out there and assist our customers, then obviously we do so. We don't really get too much warning for anything like that, as far as when we're going to get a high wind advisory. Usually, we get the advisory and then it comes. Being that we're right on the lake, it usually comes right off the lake. Then you just have to jump on it the next day when

Heidi Ellsworth:
When I talk to people around the country, I'm just seeing so much, so many different things that are happening and that are going on. I'm going to actually go to Rudy. I want to talk to you about what you're seeing, between the drought and the wildfires and things that are happening in California. How are you handling? I don't know how much you're seeing it more in LA proper or on the commercial buildings, but what are you finding?

Rudy Gutierrez:
Obviously, we experience wildfires in urban areas. We've seen quite a bit of a devastation over the last three from Northern California all the way to Southern California. We do have the occasional earthquake, but those are just typical to us. They're not too nerve wracking. We have a serious drought, so that causes issues in the area of, we don't have the urgency of doing a roofing project. We have to be more creative on how we approach and an owner for a re-roofing opportunity.

Obviously, we have a go-to market strategy with respect to high heat. In our environment, heat is a problem, especially in logistics, warehousing, and obviously cool roof, published information. Cool roofs can reduce temperatures anywhere from 20 to 25 degrees internally. We're able to articulate that well during the hot summer months and push for roof restorations in the area of coatings or new roofing.

We adapt to the conditions, but certainly our service department struggles in the area. We don't have a lot of rain. We have program services still, but it's a little tougher. We certainly find an angle, a way to get to the client with additional adapting to the environment.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think this is really interesting, because that's exactly what Mandy is saying about adapting, being ready to be the first responder with the winds off the lake. Then what I love is, Rudy is talking about products and that's what I'm really interested in, too. Everything is shifting. What are we doing? I'm sorry. Soap box here for one second. I think the roofing industry is somewhat responsible. Not somewhat. It's very responsible for all the acreage of roofs that we have and how can those roofs actually be creating a return on investment, which will help with this changing. I hope it will help with all the changes that's going on. Greta, I know in your area, you are super excited about solar.

Greta Bajrami:
Yeah, I know, because California has been leading it, so Massachusetts needs to join. I think when for example, I'll speak on the residential aspect of working with JF energy, which was very exciting for roofers because they didn't have to create these whole departments of solar. They didn't have to create all these new relationships. It was already there. The problem with JF energy in Massachusetts was that the system that they put in place ultimately collapsed, and the reason being is because the building departments were not like other states. In Massachusetts, the building department's different in every single town, not every single county, in every single town. JF energy, we were so excited. We sold 10 units and then they were like, "Look, you can do it. You just have to do it on your own, because it shifts so much that we can do this from our home office." The roofer who was so excited to just be able to put solar didn't have to worry about any of the paperwork now was left to do the paperwork.

I think for smaller companies, they don't have the resources to create those solar relationships, to have those solar specific departments, because it is a product that takes much longer to turn around. There's a lot more paperwork involved than the traditional strip and re-roof. That was something that was a setback to us. Now, my challenge has been when do building inspectors come together and realize that there has to be at least in the county, one process? That's what I've been really advocating and going to all the board meetings that I can, because I feel that Massachusetts, we should have solar just like anybody else, on every home. Homeowners are really excited about it. However, the process is so painful that it it leaves out all the roofers and it only allows the maybe seven solar companies that are in the area to be the players. Again, they need the roofers, right? Even Tesla and all these companies have issues all the time where they're calling reputable roofers such as us to help them out in lots of scenarios, because something went wrong with the roof underneath it.

I think we have to take another initiative, and I'm excited to see if the building material big names will get involved in looking at this perspective, not from the material, but how do we get down on the ground level and how do we help each state in each county come up to a level that's consistent, and it's as easy as filing an application? Roofers can roof, and solar roofs can be put on.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. It's these alternative products like Rudy was talking about, adapting with the products to help the roofs, whether that's white roofs or solar. I think, and I'm going to kind of circle back Charles, because I have something I know I want you to share. You had talked about, so I'm going to go back to the weather. You talked about that you're in drought and what you have done with your brand to adapt to these. You really are. The weather affects your business every year, and you have done things to try to override that. Can you share that?

Charles Antis:
Yeah, well, I'll tell it a certain way. I'm glad this segued back into this because the fires, I've personally felt them. I live in the city. I live in Irvine, California. That's where the Archie comic series was based. It's not in the country. I don't expect to have a fire. I told my wife, "We have no. Honey, there's no way our house could catch on fire. There's no danger."

Then a year ago, we had the Santiago fires and over 100,000 people were evacuated. Fire trucks came from around the state. We had over 500 engines come, and they centered right there at the great park a mile from my home. They escorted us out, and not one home was burned.
I just want to point that out, because I've tasted the fires. My parents' home in Oregon. They're devastated right now with what's going on around them. Everything's changing. Your husband just told me it was 118 degrees in Portland the other day.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes. Yes.

Charles Antis:
Everything's changing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Everything's changing.

Charles Antis:
This is how I adapt. I owe a thank you to those firemen. I owe a thank you to them. You know what I've done? I've done this along with a bunch of partners. We've showed up at fire stations all throughout Southern California, San Diego, up to LA, and we say, thank you because they all sent an engine to save our homes and we stayed safe.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Charles Antis:
We say thank you with meals. We say thank you with ... We have great partners, Monster Energy, Yogurt Land. These great corporations say yes. They give us free product to give our frontline heroes. What that does is, it makes my team happy, relevant. When COVID hit a year ago, year and a half ago I mean, we were scared. Everybody was scared. The thing that pulled us out was a couple of things. We heard there was shortage in food, so we started delivering food. I delivered a box of food, and I was very uncomfortable, to a woman on the second story of a condo, because I was told her and 22% of the people in my area do not have enough food to eat. We started sending trucks showing up every Wednesday at 1:00. Why then? Because that's when they couldn't fill the truck routes. I showed up at my first home. I didn't want to go. I got to admit, because it was uncomfortable. I called this woman who I knew needed food. She said, "Will you please carry that box of food upstairs?"

I carried it up these two flights of stairs to this condo. I knocked on the door, and finally a woman answered the door. She was in an old night gown. It was thin. It was frail, and she was hungry. You could tell. She was so grateful that when I brought the box in, she made me uncomfortable. She started saying something. What is she saying? She's saying, "Bless you. Bless you. Bless you." I didn't mean to, but I was deflecting the blessing. I put the box of food down, and I felt something like, "Wow," awakened in the moment, alive. Suddenly, it made sense what I'm supposed to do.

We started holding blood drives. Why? Because Susan Degrassi, who works for me, is on the American Red Cross board. There's not enough blood. We've had 47 blood drives in the last 15 months. We've raised something like 4,000 life-saving units of blood over 1,000 donors, and why? Because we're relevant in the community. We're on KTLA Morning News at least once a month about our blood drives. We were on KMOS radio about our blood drives. You know how that makes us feel? You know how that help helps my team feel? We're relevant in the moment in the community, and that's how we navigate uncertain times because we know why we exist. It's to keep families safe and dry, and we go about showing that in the community. We go so far as, we go out and say, thank you to those police, fire, hospitals, those that are really keeping us safe.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Wendy Marvin:
I love Charles.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know.

Wendy Marvin:
I love your heart.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know, and this is what we're talking about is, whether it's COVID or wildfires or tragedy or whatever it may be, it's about taking that moment and figuring out how to be relevant. I love that term relevant and how to back, because it comes back to you. To be honest, that's how Coffee Conversations started because we knew we had to get it out to the industry and somebody had to do it. We were that moment. I love Charles, as always. Wendy?

Wendy Marvin:
I don't want to follow Charles.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I know, but there's so many things. We together went through the wildfires in Oregon, devastation. I want to talk about with you. We are seeing changes in the building codes, in the underlayments and the technology to protect us from these things.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Then you are also our, am I right? You've been doing a little bit of solar or getting into that.

Wendy Marvin:
We're looking at it. We're not there yet. We're looking at the solar shingles, is the ones we're looking at, that that's movement driven.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah, that's the one we've been trying to stay ahead of.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So cool.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah. We're, Massachusets going to be the same thing is, we're relevant for solar, but only for a certain period of time. What do we do with the rest of the rainy parts of our year? We're not telling everybody how beautiful our weather is, because we want you all not to move here. Looking at the same with technologies that are going to help us in our area, which one of them is that solar shingle that generates solar electricity from movement, which could be rain.

We certified with Tesla, and then they took it back. When they gave it back and said, "Oh, just kidding. We really don't know how to install roofs." I don't know if that's going to be something we're going to jump into again, but staying ahead of those products. What I feel like from this conversation is, I think everybody hit everything I was going to say, but I'm feeling like there's this equalization of products across the nation. What makes me mad is, our states are now looking at trying to write these building codes, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Wendy Marvin:
I'm sorry. Rudy and Charles' areas have already done all that. Why are we not just looking to the places that have already experienced what we've had happen and taking some of the best learning? That's not happening, and it's really frustrating. They're coming up with some of these weird things that we have to do. Like Greta said, you just have to adapt and do. You just have to do what they say.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You're seeing the same thing?

Greta Bajrami:
Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing. Thank God, due to COVID, at least the process was streamlined online for a lot of building departments. That's a plus. That's a big win for Massachusetts.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah, not in our area.

Greta Bajrami:
The next thing is, my only reach out there to those listening would be is, what if the manufacturers would get involved in helping speed up some of those processes? I think that when contractors, it doesn't matter if they're massive million-dollar companies or just starting out, it's very hard for building inspectors to departments to make changes.

When the industry, the people producing the products demand it, then you're going to have more people being responsive to it. I think that's what needs to happen across all in United States. I think there needs to be a demand for manufacturers. Products have come up. Code has come up, but some of the books have been left behind.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Greta Bajrami:
Where JF and Certainteed and some of these manufacturers have higher expectations than the actual written code.

Wendy Marvin:
The associations too, like NAHB.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Wendy Marvin:
I think about a lot and how they lobby. NRCA.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Wendy Marvin:
They lobbied for our industry and everything. I think that it's so hard because we still have cities and counties in our area that you have to physically drive there. I'm not talking about small places that you physically have to turn in a written piece of paper and then the paper gets lost or other things.

Greta Bajrami:
Then you have to pick it up.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Talking with Sarah out here, we've got a new vendor that's talking about just doing an automation of the MSDS papers from all the manufacturers and what a daunting task. I'm thinking those are the keys to what's going to happen is, somebody is going to write an app. We had somebody talk about this yesterday at NDVIR.

Heidi Ellsworth:
One click code.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah. One click code, and she's automating the permitting process. She's staying up on what's relevant for your area, and she's throughout the 50 states. I thought, "Oh my God, no brainer." I'm in. I'm in.

Heidi Ellsworth:
The hard part is actually gathering all that. Just like what Greta's saying, gathering it-

Wendy Marvin:
It's a nightmare.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Technology is changing this. You want to watch because like one click code, they are on Roofer's Coffee Shop. You can go learn about it and see how it works.

Wendy Marvin:
Sign up.

Heidi Ellsworth:
If we want this technology, seriously, if we want this technology to keep going, the contractors need to support it.

Wendy Marvin:
Yep.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's not always good, we know that. Sometimes, technology takes us the wrong way, but we've had some great discussions on that. It is so important and so relevant. Okay. Well, we are coming to a point. My last question to all of you wonderful panelists, and I'm actually going to start with Mandy again, is just your top two or three things for other contractors. What should they be doing to prepare for the next 18 months? What's the most, top two most important things that your company is doing that you think others should be doing to prepare for the next 18 months?

Mandy McIntyre:
Top two things? Well, I think trying to be as efficient and profitable as possible, because there are so many unknowns. I think those go hand in hand. The other thing I think is just to really show appreciation for your employees, to not repeat any mistakes that we went through with the first COVID wave, because it looks like the second one is coming. I don't know. I think being as profitable and efficient as you can so that you can maintain cashflow and save money, and then just keeping your labor loyal to you. I feel like, once all these materials start coming next year, and because we've had companies in our area that have completely laid off and shut down.

Right now actually, labor is not as big of an issue as it used to be, but my prediction is next year when all the materials start coming and production starts booming, which I'm hoping is next year and it's not 2023 when we start really booming again, is that labor is going to be an even bigger problem than what we've already experienced. I think keeping your company culture solid, stable, and making your company a desirable place to work.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's great, profitability and taking care of your people. That's perfect because you're right. When that demand, when the supplies come back, everything's going to change again.

Mandy McIntyre:
Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Rudy, what would you recommend?

Rudy Gutierrez:
Well, I agree with Mandy. I'm sure my colleagues would do the same. You have to make the right adjustments. Communicate with your team. Make sure you strengthen your company culture. Stay informed with respect to your environment, meaning whether it's pandemic or otherwise. Keeping, staying informed is going to be very key. This morning I was on another call and I read a piece on the condition of the roofing industry which was eyeopening to me. We're going to be okay. We're going to be in great shape, actually. I'm going to re-strategize, and I'm going to plan for growth.

The roofing industry currently is about, somewhere in the area, our national industry, I think somewhere the $30 billion a year industry. By 2025, we're going to be a $50 billion industry. The areas of growth will still be the Southwest, which I happened to be in. California is one, Texas. Position your company to win. I think I'm very optimistic. We grew our business during a pandemic. We grew our business. We started our business during the great recession. I'm very optimistic.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I was there when you started your business. I know you are the greatest man ever.

Rudy Gutierrez:
You helped me with the information. Stay informed. Build on your company culture, and plan for the future.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I love what you're saying too, Rudy, because we're going. We have obviously a new administration. There's a lot of emphasis on green and green solutions. Now is the time to start implementing what we were just talking about, ROI on the roof. How can you bring solutions to your building owners? How can you talk to them about things they can do to actually make money off of their roof and knowing those new technologies that are coming? Now's a great time to plan for that, to be on that leading edge, because no matter what the politics in DC are, it's going to be. The weather is going to force this change for everybody. Nobody's going to be able to say this isn't happening, right? Greta, what are your top two things?

Greta Bajrami:
My top two things. I'm going to go a little bit on the other side of this, and I'm going to say we have to go back to being risk-takers. I know as business owners and leaders and managers, we get so caught up in budgets and profit and loss sheets and balance sheets, but I encourage you to let that to the accounting department and you focus on making the necessary moves or decisions or campaigns that really will be profitable to your team as a whole. Profit sometimes doesn't mean that balance sheet, right? Sometimes profit might be brand awareness. Sometimes profit might mean being part of a cause. What I conditioned myself is to go back to those early times. I had a $15,000 loan and I made it into a multi-million dollar brand, right?

I tell owners that when you get comfortable and you get to a position where you drive a big company, you forget of those necessarily risks. You made something out of nothing. When you get comfortable, you start running more on budget. Oh, well, the budget allows this and this. Then you've missed those key entrepreneurial risk-taker abilities to innovate and push forward something where nobody else sees it. Right now in the next 18 months, I think that's going to be crucial. You need to go back to those entrepreneurial key skills that you had when you first started your brand and let that be the driver of the next campaign, the next idea, the next product that you endorse, whatever that may be. I think that's crucial. I think that's going to be one of the biggest things that I would encourage anybody.

Then for me, the next best part is now more than ever, we realize that you have to be run authentic and you have to be outspoken and tie yourself to the bigger picture, like Roofer's Coffee Shop. I speak to a lot of people and I encourage them to join associations. Sometimes, they tell me they're too busy, or "I don't want to do that," or "I make enough money." Let's be honest. Let's be raw about it, but it's not about that. It's about you tying yourself to the bigger picture so the people that see you as their leader know that this is not a selfish game for you or a game for your vacations or your lavish lifestyle. This is about you understanding that the career they're investing in matters to you equally.

I think that's the biggest thing. I think this is going to be the crucial. If you want people to come back, join your team, if you're having maybe a tough time hiring people, think of the perspective and think of the message you're giving them. Are you putting in the labor hours, as well, in associations, in coming to an event like this? Are you just saying it's not worth it? People are watching, and the people that that recognize you as their leader are watching. You need to be authentic and raw and outspoken. Those are my two points.

Wendy Marvin:
Love her.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Greta, I love you. Yeah. Really, this is. It's about all businesses, right? The two things you just said are exactly where I'm at with Roofer's Coffee Shop business, that I continue to be, continue to take risks. It does. It's not always perfect, but it's always authentic. That is, if everyone can think that way, I think it makes such a difference.

Real quick, before we go on, I just want to say that Greta is on the board of the Northeast Roofing Contractors Association, one of the first women I've known has been on the board. I'm sure there's others. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing with NRCA.

Greta Bajrami:
Yeah. For the first time ever, I met at the board's meeting in June, and I proposed to the board that we need to respond. We need to respond to change and change comes with changing just the identity of who we are and the mission statements that we once created. It was time for a rebrand and it was a very ballsy, I'm sorry if I may say that.

It was very ... I was pushing for it. I told everybody we have to do it. We have to respond. Look at how many young people are here. I'm young. There's so many young faces around. We need to change. That change comes with a rebrand: logo, color, designs, mission statements, the whole identity, cause. In September 21st, we go to the full board and we're hoping that they will encourage. Next time you see NRCA, you might be looking at a very new face, and I'm happy that they chose and they trusted me to be at the forefront of it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You're amazing.

Wendy Marvin:
Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Great job. I'm so excited for you. I can't wait to go to the NRCA show. I can't wait.

Greta Bajrami:
Yeah. That's exciting.

Heidi Ellsworth:
It's so good. Okay. Charles, top two things. We might go a little bit long on this, and we're not going to care. Top two things.

Charles Antis:
I love. I love that. I love that, and I love that we're talking about the same things. I believe in a complete inside out re-investment. That means my top two things, number one, my team, number two, the community. For me, it's not the time to go out and buy a boat. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a boat. I've had one in the past.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah.

Charles Antis:
It's a time for all of my resources to go back in and be available. The way that shows up is this. Those that follow me know that I often say I have the best CEO seat in Orange County, and I really believe I do. There's a few people that might get to do what I do, but I get to go out and really make things better all the time. Once I thought that I could do that for myself, I realized why not? Why couldn't I try to create the best jobs for any seat, the best job for my VP of cost, Susan Degrassi? Go ask her if this is the best job she's ever had. She'll tell you it is, Recently, Audrey, my VP of finance said, this is the best job she's ever had. It took me a couple of years maybe to hear that, but I heard it. I'm starting to hear it. Why? Because of reinvestment, and the reinvestment on them looks like this.

Audrey is a great financial leader. She wants to be greater. I put her in her own Vistige class. If you do the research on what it costs to put somebody through Vistige, not only that day a month they lose plus the fee, it might be $30-$40,000 a year. That's a value because she's empowered. If you meet her, you're going to say one thing about Audrey Schneider. You're going to say she's got capacity because she's engaged. Another reason why it's her favorite job is, she's found what fulfills her. It's tutoring, mentoring, and people. She's getting heavily involved with Boys and Girls Club of Central Coast, just like Susan Degrassi is on the board of the Red Cross, American Red Cross. I'm on the board of United in Homelessness. I'm on the board. Put on your socks. I'm on the board of Ronald McDonald House. I'm on the board of Habitat for Humanity. I'm on the board of a local college, Cal State board. I'm on the board of 10C. I'm on the board of the Roofing Alliance. I've been on the board with Rudy of the NRCA. Why? Because that's the best thing I can do if I want to have a strong company where I want my people to stay.

If I invest in them and that looks like those investments like Vistige, and that looks like personal assessments, give them any assessment that'll help them understand themselves more, but it also looks like in the community. What fulfills you? I give my people these giving cards that you've seen.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Charles Antis:
That allows them to give to the cause that fulfills them. Then somebody in finance and not Audrey, I'm just making a fictitious person in finance, will stand up that people don't like, cause she's kind of rude. She'll explain a story that's real about an aunt or someone that was sick with cancer. All of a sudden, this person in customer care that didn't get Audrey, not Audrey, I'm just making this up, this person, all of a sudden, "Oh my God, I get her. I get her, why she's designed that way. Suddenly, I love her." What happens when you do complete investment inside and you go complete investment outside, your people stay. You attract and retain top talent. That's what gives us the ability to flex. That's my plan.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. That inside out.

Wendy Marvin:
Just getting down.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You can't leave, Wendy. You're bringing this home.

Charles Antis:
You're funny. You're too funny.

Heidi Ellsworth:
What are your top two things? Come on.

Wendy Marvin:
Charles, Charles, Charles. I was going to. I'm speaking to, and this is. It's the same message. We're just all, we have our little spin on it. The days of games are gone. You have to know who your company is. You have to know who you are, and you have to be really aware of what you're bringing to the table. Charles goes into the stratosphere, but we're talking about thinking about others more than yourself.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Wendy Marvin:
When you build a culture of that, that's the leadership. That's, I'm giving back more than I'm buying a new car. That's the customer service where you're taking care of your customer more than making a profit. That's the industry where you're more interested in creating a relationship with your distributor who can then turn around and help you. Sometimes, it's holding their feet to the fire, like Greta said. We've got some tasks ahead of us, and we need some help. Sometimes, it's okay to stand up with that. Yeah, just getting into that mode of just kindness and understanding, and again we're all transversing this area that's just uncharted, and we have to have that caring and that understanding. Then you have to maintain. Oh, go ahead.

Greta Bajrami:
No, no. [crosstalk 00:56:40].

Wendy Marvin:
Okay.

Greta Bajrami:
I'm going to make a statement after you're done.

Wendy Marvin:
Oh. For us is, you have to maintain your ability to pivot right now. It ties in everybody's points is, from Greta's is, you've got to figure out what's next. You do that by being a part of these associations. You do that about sitting here in this place, and maybe you're just sitting at a table and you strike up a conversation with somebody sitting next to you, or you're at a vendor booth and you hear, or you're in a speaking and you hear these thought leaders speaking. You're going to get a nugget, and you can bring that back to your business, wherever you are.

We're in very different places in our businesses and who we are, in residential and commercial, but at the end of the day, a business owner as a business owner is a business owner. Maintaining that ability to pivot and that innovation is the next step for us. It ties in what everybody said. That's part of keeping our people. It's part of getting people behind a mission that's bigger than just your company name, because nobody cares about working for Matrix Roofing. They care about who I am and what we represent and what we're going to do for the community and being a giver, not a taker. It's a big deal.

Heidi Ellsworth:
On one part, Wendy, that she's not giving herself a big enough boost, so I will. During this whole thing, during right before the pandemic, into the pandemic, you actually diversified your business. Talk about being a risk-taker. Just real quick share that, because I think this is something in the next 18 months, back to Greta's point, that you've got to do.

Wendy Marvin:
You have to listen to your customers, and you have to hear what they're saying to you. Sometimes, it's polling and most of the time, it's just, what are you hearing on the phone with those people? We were getting a lot of pushback of people asking for additional help. We do roofing and I'm a general contractor. I've always been that, but I would take such great care of my people. Then I would say, "Gosh, but I can't do that drywall repair. I'm going to try to give you to somebody else." I would send them out into the community, just somebody who needs the work and nobody would call them back. Nobody would show up. They'd get ridiculous bids, or nobody would answer the phone even in construction.

We just decided to do it ourselves. We launched that in the end of '18 and had the full '19 before that started. It's blown up into residential repairs and different ways to help our customers. Again, the motivation was to solve a problem for our customers. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Do you know what? I am sorry. I've just got to, because you never know when something's going to hit, like COVID. You never know, and you never know how you're going to be positioned. When I think about the fact that this flies, I think about the fact that you added those services right before it became one of the hottest things that the consumers wanted. Right?

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You went into 2019, totally positioned for it. I have to say, the Roofer's Coffee Shop went into the pandemic totally positioned, all digital. We didn't have to worry about the other things.

Wendy Marvin:
Yeah, you were ready.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We were ready for it, but you never know when it's going to happen.

Wendy Marvin:
No.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You don't even know if it will happen, but if you don't take the risk and position yourself in that way, it will never.

Wendy Marvin:
Jump. Just jump it. It didn't work? Great, at first, but you just jump. That's Greta's point. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth:
There's your 18 months. It's going forward. All these people there. There you go. If you can't get something from this for your business, I'm sorry. I also want to say risk-taking, this is our last Coffee Conversations of our live at IRE. Yes, this is it. I have to tell you, it was a risk. It was a risk. Not everything has gone perfect, but I am thrilled. I think it's been amazing. We have an amazing team. I want to thank Megan Ellsworth and Collin.

Wendy Marvin:
Thanks, Megan and Collin. You guys are amazing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
They have done amazing things.

Charles Antis:
You guys rock.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I want to thank the whole Roofer's Coffee Shop team. We have folks here at IRE. They all came out: our account managers, our editors, our, our club, my husband. I'm related to half of them and I should be related to the rest. It's been an amazing week that is again, positioning and putting yourself out there. I'm going to finish up. Greta, you had one more thing to say.

Greta Bajrami:
Oh, no, I was just going to say, when you guys were talking about giving back, I just wanted. I don't know if everybody knows my story, but I think it's worth mentioning if there's somebody listening. Nine years ago, I was on welfare and I didn't have a home. I used to live in a one bedroom apartment, and today I run a very successful roofing company and I have homes. I'm able to speak on moments such as this, but from the very moment when I first made my first million dollars in sales, the first thing I did was I donated to Habitat because I'm actually, I'm part of Habitat, as well. I remember my accountant saying, "You don't have the kind of money for that. Shouldn't you put it into marketing? You'll get more leads." I said no. I have to put it back there because people will know that now that I'm able to afford a house, that I need to pay that back 100 times.
That type of power? Talk about community. People that knew me, people that knew my story. People that knew how I was raised and the challenges I had had, they are my customers and they are my biggest supporters in the community. They tag me on every post and they share my story. They're like, "You got to call Greta. You got to get a route from Greta."

I think if you're thinking about joining a cause, or if you have some money, some resources, don't think twice about it because there's people watching you. You don't have to be a millionaire. You don't have to have a multi-million dollar company to donate, but you just have to be somebody that cares and realizes that giving back lets other people know the things that you care about. If it doesn't get you new clients, it will get you new employees.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I love it. Well guys, thank you. That is a perfect thing to stop on. I want to thank my panelists. Thank you for being here.

Wendy Marvin:
Thank you, Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love you guys. These are Rudy and Mandy. These are our RCS influencers. They write for the Coffee Shop every month. Get on. Read their articles. There's so much wisdom.

Wendy Marvin:
Can we talk about you for two seconds? You never do this, but for what you're giving back and what you do?

Mandy McIntyre:
Thank you.

Greta Bajrami:
100%. Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I'm so happy. We are so happy as a team at RoofersCoffeeShop to bring all of you to IRE, to the Coffee Conversations. I want to end with first of all, a special thank you to ABCSupply. ABCSupply is our sponsor. They have made possible. They are big part of RoofersCoffeeShop. I appreciate them so much.

Wendy Marvin:
Believer.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I talk about giving back.

Wendy Marvin:
Yep.

Heidi Ellsworth:
ABC is that.

Wendy Marvin:
Believe in you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We just had some awesome Coffee Conversations on giving back, miracle. I'm going to think of it. Make-A-Wish. The Make-A-Wish Foundation. Be sure to go back and watch that, and September 9th. September 9th, we start season three. I'm weird, but we put this just like a TV show. We go every other week. We go September through May, and we take a hiatus during the summer, except for here.

Wendy Marvin:
Because you need a break.

Heidi Ellsworth:
We need a break, and it's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun. September 9th, please join us for Coffee Conversations. It will be at 6:00 AM Pacific.

Wendy Marvin:
That's okay.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thanks, Wendy and Charles and Rudy. We are very proud to say that Reid Ribble will be our guest to talk about what's been happening, what's happened this last year, about pro certification and about what's to come with the NRCA. Please join us. Be there. Watch for the rest of the live conversations today. Thank you so much and have a great day.

Wendy Marvin:
Thank you.

Mandy McIntyre:
See you.

Rudy Gutierrez:
Thank you all.

Charles Antis:
Rudy.

Rudy Gutierrez:
Charles.

Wendy Marvin:
Thanks, Rudy and Mandy.

Charles Antis:
Air hugs.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you.

Charles Antis:
Wendy.