Wayne Sorensen - The Association Roofing Life - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Wayne Sorensen, president of Top Line Roofing and the membership chairman for the Western States Roofing Contractors Association (WSRCA). You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Speaker 1: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I am here today with Wayne Sorensen of Top Line Roofing, and we are here to talk about association. Now, I know you all out there are like, "Okay, Heidi, you've talked about associations before." But this is so important. Wayne is just such an amazing example of how association can make success in your business. Wayne, welcome to the show.

Wayne Sorensen: Very good. I'm glad to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I mean, it's just we served together on the board of Western States. I'm so impressed with what you do and Western States overall, the association. Before we get to all of that, if you could, why don't you introduce yourself? Tell everybody a little bit about you and your company, your family. We'd love to hear it.

Wayne Sorensen: Okay. Yeah, I'd love to. But I must also say RoofersCoffeeShop is something I've been tracking for, I don't know how long you've been doing it, but for a very long time. It's always been fun to see you develop that. That's commendable what you've done.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's awesome. 20 years.

Wayne Sorensen: 20 years.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: 20 years, and before that it was Roofer's Exchange. You might remember that too.

Wayne Sorensen: I don't remember Roofer's Exchange but tracking this one has been pretty exciting to see your progress. A little bit about me, again, I'm based out of San Diego. I'm married. I've been married for 39 years coming this June.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Congratulations.

Wayne Sorensen: A long time. Yeah. My wife and I have four children and we have eight-and-a-half grandchildren. We've got a daughter's going to have a baby here in April or something.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. Eight-and-a-half.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah, eight-and-a-half.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Soon to be nine.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah, so that's exciting for us. Again, like I say, we've been here in San Diego for a little over 30 years. We came here because we basically purchased the roofing business that we're in.

I was an accountant. I graduated in finance from Brigham Young University. Go Cougs. But anyway, and I was in an accounting department and working that field. A friend of mine was doing some roofing work here in Southern California. I was in Los Angeles at the time, and he had a niche market that he was doing and that was servicing and repairing shake shingle roofs.

Because at that time, 30 years ago, it had to be 40% of Northern San Diego counties market was wood roofs. It's hard to believe now because obviously they're taboo at this point. But back then, 30 years ago, I would think they've got to be 40%.

He developed a little plan where what he did is he would come in and maintain shake roofs because he figured out what makes them work. By doing that, he inexpensively could figure out a way that we could come in and do maintenance on these roofs. And extend their lives so people wouldn't have to worry about replacing them, but keep them from leaking for periods of time and for reasonable amounts of money.

He offered me to come buy his San Diego division of it from him, and come down to San Diego and do that. That's basically how I got in the roofing business from an accountant.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. I've heard that before. I mean, because you have the accounting and you have the business side, and then now you get into roofing and it just works.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. When I went to school, I wasn't going to school to be an accountant necessarily. I just figured you better know the numbers. You better know how things work if you want to run your own business. And so this opportunity came and move a family, I guess I shouldn't say this necessarily, but from Los Angeles to San Diego is a no-brainer in my book because San Diego's a lot nicer in my opinion.

Anyway, so it was a great opportunity to move the family in San Diego. We actually live slightly outside of San Diego in a little community called Poway, but it's its own little city, but it's just right outside of San Diego and North County there.

Anyway, that's how I got in the roofing business but well, it was interesting. We exclusively just did repairs on shake roofs for a number of years. Until obviously you realized there was an end to that coming because all the fires and everything, they started outlawing shakes, so we branched out a lot into tile repair and maintenance along with that.

And again, with the same concept, which is a little odd is we came into it, okay, how do we figure out how to repair and maintain tile roofs? And so it gave us a unique perspective. Realized we can keep tile roofs going for a while too by doing these things, if you understand how a tile roof works.

Now at this point in 30 years, obviously we do replacements and everything on residential roofs, we do it all. But still about 40% of our volume tends to be in repair and maintenance because that's where we started from. That's as a company, how we've developed.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. You're mostly residential.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah. We do a little bit of commercial but mostly residential.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay. Awesome. That is cool. What a great story. I love it. I'm going to ask you for another story. How did you get involved with Western States and why?

Wayne Sorensen: I've got to tell you, for me, it started with a roofer, a good friend of mine that I got to know a number of years ago. His name's Gary Martin. I know you might remember Gary Martin.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, I know Gary really well. Yeah.

Wayne Sorensen: He's long retired now and enjoying life with his feet in the air and enjoying everything. But I got to know him and he's the one that at the time, wanted me to get involved in the local association because he kept saying, "You've got to get involved."

I remember telling him, "You know, associations, that's all the good old boys sit around and drink beer together. I'm not interested in this." He goes, "No, no, no, no. You need to get involved in this." And so I did.

I jumped on and got on the board of directors of the San Diego Roofing Contractor Association, SDR CA. Eventually I was on that for 13 years. I served two terms as president of that association and realized it's not what I thought it was. It was a great association to mingle with people.

That gave me the perspective that in reality, the contractors that want to get involved with associations like that are usually the better contractors. They're the guys that want to get out of their shell. They want to get out of the cave they live in and see the world, see what what's going on out there. I find that in reality, they're usually the better companies. Those are the ones you want to mingle with. You want to mingle with success.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, and learn from it.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah. Then the great opportunity to actually meet your competition to find out they're not bad guys. Most of them are especially involved. They're pretty good guys and you develop some relationships with some really good guys in that.

Anyway, I was involved in that for say, 13 years. Then another good friend of mine who you'll know, and that's Mike Wickerling and another good friend of mine. He's been telling me for a couple of years, he goes, "You've got to get involved in Western States."

And so I don't know, what is it, three, four years ago, I decided to go ahead and get on the board of Western States now and for the same idea. Make my interaction with people broader than just the local area. All the stuff that's involved with that are pretty exciting, and so it's been a lot of fun. Again, meeting a lot of people such as Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right. Such as Wayne. I know. That's why I love this. I love to meet all the people. How long have you been a member of Western States? Did you do all that at the same time that you got on the board?

Wayne Sorensen: Well, no. I was a member long before that. An interesting thing, we just created Western States, something that we did years ago. It is partly because that's how I became a member. I never really thought much about it. I had gone to the expo in Vegas a couple of times, but never really saw a reason to be a member of it.

Gary Martin again, came to me and said, "Hey, the association is allowing board of directors to offer a free membership for a year, for anybody that we believe would be a good addition to our association." I took them up on it and that's when I became a member. Now, that same policy we just enacted last year again. Trying to get board members to get out, reach out and hand memberships to people, and get them to see what it's like and see all the benefits.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: How have you seen your membership with Western States and with San Diego Roofing Contractors Association, how have those memberships and your involvement on the boards helped your company?

Wayne Sorensen: The knowledge you receive is great. The local ones a little limited. You don't have as big of data in there because they don't have the resources quite, but still a lot of good interaction with speakers. A lot of information they pass on from state regulations, things like that. They're always good.

Then really, I can't stress the importance of the mingling with other contractors. Getting out of your cave. Getting out of your shell. Mingling with people and just chatting about things, what goes on in general. Now, obviously in these associations, we can't get together and talk about anything that's in a collusion type basis but just talk in general about the industry.

What goes on is always a big asset to a smaller contractor who is just trying to make a living. Sometimes you get yourself caught in that, like I say, a cave. You need to get out of that cave once in a while and mingle with other people.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's amazing how much you learn from each other and support each other. I mean, you've heard that so many times too. Someone's having a problem and they can just pick up the phone and have somebody who they can support them, talk through it, see what it's all about.

But there's also a lot of tangible benefits. I mean, I just think about Bill Bailey. You know Bill Bailey, and a little bit north of you. But he always talks about how just having the access to legal services through his associations basically saved his company. There's so many marketing, legal. As contractors are looking at joining an association, what kind of benefits should they be looking at because they're kind of the same. Associations really do a great job of offering these.

Wayne Sorensen: Right. Western States has really reached out a lot, and gathered so much in there that contractors can really use. Aside from the expo, which is fabulous. To be involved in the expo and get a discount when you go there. But one of the things that's come out recently is the safety training, toolbox trainings, that's huge for smaller contractors where you're not large enough to have a safety guy involved. You and your staff are doing all the safety training and whatnot. How do you come up with things to do every week?

Well, the association has got it where once a week they send you any member, they send you a safety thing that you can review. Easily dissect the information, give it out to the crews. It comes ready to be signed and everything, so you've got it put in your files so OSHA should be happy with everything.

That's a big advantage, I see, for again, like I say, smaller companies to just get that taken care of. I'm not having to think, okay, what in the world am I going to talk about safety this week? It's always there and it's great.

Now the other thing, this is exciting news that I can't go too far into it, but the association doing another thing with safety right now with an app that could be coming out. It could be really a game changer in some sense, for people that the association is working on. Now hopefully that's going to be something that's up and going here soon that people should really look into. That's a great asset that that's part of being a member, which is just awesome.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I mean, I think to your point too. When you look at the pricing for events, you get discounts as a member. I know with RoofersCoffeeShop, we do a free classified ad. We do discounts for our art club. People are doing this all the time that I think a lot of times contractors aren't aware of. I mean, I just think about Trent Cotney and what he offers from a legal standpoint with Western States that's pretty phenomenal.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah, well, 15 minutes, he gives legal advice. You can get 15 minutes every month. I mean, that's pretty good that you can bounce something off for somebody, which is a big asset. Then the technical information that we give with Western States, that you can reach out and get some really good...

That's the other thing that Gary Martin got me really involved in to get me excited about Western States when I joined, is the fact that he says, "We're constantly doing technical bulletins and constantly, it's not a stagnant industry. It's not something that's dead, that's the same old thing every year. This is something that's moving and changing and you've got to be on top of things."

These technical bulletins that are produced and now being on the board, I'm actually on the committee for the tech for some of that stuff on low slope and things. I mean, steep slope and things like that. Is man, you see how much time and effort's put into that stuff. To really make sure we're doing things that are of value to the membership. There's some really good technical things that are available to anybody that's a member, that you can tap into to realize that, man, this industry changes a lot. You better be on top of it or you're in trouble.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. What I love about Western States technical is it's about Western state. Things that only really happen in the Pacific Northwest or the Southeast or everywhere in between, we have a lot of different weather, a lot of different climates, but yet a lot of similarities.

And so to know that you're going to get technical bulletins that really focus in into our region, I think is key. I think it's one of the best things about regional associations. Because I know MRCA, NRCA, they do the same things for their regions, and that's why you really need to belong. I think sometimes, Wayne, people think, well, I'll just belong to my local or I'll just belong to national. But that regional offers something that no one else does.

Wayne Sorensen: Yes. It is still big enough of a region that you've got a breadth of knowledge from all the people that are coming to those technical meetings to throw out ideas and thoughts on it. They pass that around that it gives you a pretty good understanding, but yet it can zero in more on what we're doing out here in the West, for sure.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I remember at the last board meeting, I was cracking up because some of the folks were in the Pacific Northwest were talking about hot yoga studios, and then this is a real problem for the roof. Folks from your side from down South were like, "What are you talking about? There's not a problem." But yeah, we have a lot more rain up here.

Wayne Sorensen: Right. Yeah, definitely a lot more and we're worried about that stuff.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. A lot more rain.

Wayne Sorensen: No doubt. You all think that's great. Those technical, again, I had no idea how much time is put in those. They're not just casually kicked out. These are people that put a lot of time in and a lot of input and I think that's worthwhile. Then don't forget the webinars too. The webinars that are posted, some good stuff on those too.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I mean, they're just the staff, the team led by Joel, they just do a great job. I mean, they bring so much. I think we talked about this a little bit earlier, but the intangible benefits. Like you said, getting to sit down next to other contractors. Getting to know them, being involved.

Be a member first. Go to the expo. Go to some of the regional events. Get online. Go to the clubhouse. Get all the benefits, but then get involved on the board. You are serving on the board. You're the chair of the membership committee. Why would you recommend to other contractors to follow? To get involved on the board? To be a chair? To really be active?

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah. I think that the big thing is to get active. To reach out to other people, understand what other people are going through and try to help them. Because there is definitely a give back to the community feeling. I think most people on the board feel that. Yeah, they get benefit out of it and I do because again, you're mingling with good people, solid companies, good character people.

But also on the other end, you feel like hopefully you're giving back. You're not just taking and I think that's important. That's why you grab a committee. You get on the board. You get a committee, so you step in, and you try to help some too. Again, you get benefit but also you need to reach out and give back to the community and that's important, the most important to the board.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I've been serving on the board off and on for almost 30 years. And so I've made some of my best friends being on that Western States board. People who maybe have gone off the board and then come back. I've learned. I've been mentored. I've learned from so many people. I've learned about roofing. I've made contacts, made business contacts.

I think getting involved on your local association board or your regional or your national is so important. And so how do contractors do that? I think there's contractors out there probably were like, "Well, yeah, that sounds great, but how do I get on to be on a board?"

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah. I think basically what they want to do is contact the office, the Western States there and say, "Hey, I'm a member. I'd be interested in seeing to get on the board." Then there's a process they go through and there's usually an interview process that they would contact to make sure that you're a good fit for it.

Hopefully, it does work and that contractor can join and be part of it but again, I think a lot of people don't think about it. Almost, a lot of people have to be challenged to do it like me. I mean, Mike Waker, and he kept saying, "You need to be part of this. You like being on the cutting edge of things. You like doing this, all these things. This is for you. Why aren't you on the board?" He pushed me over that. I think some contractors need that maybe a little bit like me, to have somebody challenge them and say, "This is for you. Why don't you do it?"

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Why don't you do it? I've done that. I've nominated people to the board, the contractors who I think are just really great. And so I would say to everybody listening out there, it's a little bit of a journey. The first step, obviously, is to become a member. Right? Become that member and it's easy. You just go. Now, let's go back when you were talking about, we have a new promotion here where you get your first year free? That happened? Yeah. Tell us about that.

Wayne Sorensen: Yeah, exactly. Every board member has one membership that they can offer to anybody that they feel good about bringing on. With the idea that that board member will mentor that person and bring them along. Make sure they feel comfortable being a member, and try to let them see the vision of what it's like.

One thing that always helps through it too is get them to open up the website because it's amazing though. Some people join the membership and we find out they don't get on the website. Well, that's where the webinars are. That's where a lot of this information that you get. If you never go on the website, you're missing out on a lot of the benefits from it.

That's why we're also doing the mentoring. If you get somebody in there, you mentor them. You see it. Push them, make sure they're getting on the website. They're looking at things. They're using the different tools that we have. By doing that, they're going to jump aboard and say, "Wow, this is good. This is worthwhile and next year we definitely want to stay members." Then down the road, they may be interested in being on the board too. Obviously, that's always a good idea.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I think that's the trick, to become a member. Then to your point, Wayne, I would say to everyone, just whether you're a member or not, or you thinking about it, go out and go on to the Western States, wsrca.org or no, .com.

Wayne Sorensen: .com.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: .com.

Wayne Sorensen: It's bookmarked on my computer, so I just hit click on it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, google it. But if you go out there and you look at the board members and you can see who's on the board. I really recommend everybody reach out. Reach out to Wayne. Reach out to the different, Wendy Marvin's on there, Hillary, Stephanie, I'm naming all the women, which is-

Wayne Sorensen: Which are all great. I've got to know each of those and that they're fabulous. I've had a great time getting to know them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Reach out to them and ask them why they're members. Why are they on the board? Everybody on the board is willing to talk to new members and encourage them to get involved.

Wayne Sorensen: That I've definitely found too, that most are really willing to share their experience on there. There's a great video that was made by RoofersCoffeeShop where we interview a few of those people that you just named. And they share why they're members and the benefits they've received from it.

It's a great little video clip that you don't have to be a member to get that clip on the website. But I'd encourage anybody to get the website, go click on that, and hear from some of these people that say what the benefit is for them and why they're members.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Why they're members. Yeah. Everybody is wide open. They are so great. That's how you get involved. Right? First, you become a member. Go check out the website. Look at the board members, get to know them, and then just put your name in.

You know what, it doesn't mean, there are only so many people on the board every year, so don't give up. If you want to be in a board, talk to the other board members and say, "I'm interested." because then that will also help and you get to talk to them ahead of time.

Wayne, advice. Advice to contractors overall. Just on incorporating the association life into their company with their team overall. What is some advice for people on how to take that first step and get more involved?

Wayne Sorensen: Well, I think the biggest hesitation most people have... Again, I'm talking about that contractor who's a serious-minded contractor. There's some out there that we probably, they're never going to be involved in an association, then they're not the person for us. But those people that you think would be good, the biggest reason they don't join is they're going to say, "I don't have time for that."

That's where I'd say, this goes back to years ago, the Stephen R. Covey book on Seven Habits of Successful People he talks about sharpening the saw. You've got to take time and sharpen the saw and these associations to me are part of that.

That's where it gives you time to say, "I can make it so I don't have time to do it or I can schedule time to become a better person, better contractor, more information. In the long run, it's going to be better for me." That's what I would say for most people is they're going to say, "I don't have time." Well schedule the time and do it and you'll find out that you're a better contractor because of it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. That's great. Great advice. Wayne, thank you for all you do for Western States and for the industry overall. You're just great.

Wayne Sorensen: Okay. Now I must say I do a fraction of what you do. Just so you know, Heidi does a lot more than I do, for sure. Let's just establish that for content.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It takes all of us, right? It takes all of us for this great roofing industry that we love so much. Thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing all your wisdom. I'm just hoping people right now are googling Western States and that you're going to sign up to be members.

It's so worth it. It pays for itself. In fact, there is a full chart. We didn't mention this, Wayne, but there's a full chart on Western States that shows all the benefits, what their value is compared to your membership. It just blows you out of the water. I mean, you will get it all back within a month. It's crazy.

Wayne Sorensen: The fee is so small really for what you're getting. I would agree. I mean, it's minuscule for the benefits you receive.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I'm telling you, a lot of people spend a lot more on a really nice dinner than they would on a membership.

Wayne Sorensen: I think you're right with that, yes, or a tank of gas anymore.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. A tank of gas probably, too. I know. It's crazy. Okay, Wayne, thank you so much for being on again, and I look forward to seeing you at the next board meeting.

Wayne Sorensen: Okay, good talking to you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you everyone. Thank you so much for being here today. You can find all this information of course, on RoofersCoffeeShop and the WSRCA, Western State Roofing Contractors Association directory. You can get ahold of them. You can find out what's going on. You can see what the webinar is. It gives you everything you need, plus a lot of great articles and those tech papers, but you need to be a member to get the full paper, so you've got to be sure to do that.

Thank you. Also, be sure to check out all of our podcasts under the read list and watch Roofing Road trips, or on your favorite podcast channel be sure to subscribe and get those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We will be seeing you next time on Roofing Road trips.

Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the RoofersCoffeeShop.com.

Learn more about Western States Roofing Contractors Association (WSRCA) in their Coffee Shop Directory or visit www.wsrca.com.