Todd Miller & Seth Heckaman - Summit your Sales with the Metal Roofing Summit - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with the experts from Isaiah Industries; Todd Miller, president and Seth Heckaman, VP of Sales. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast. 

Speaker 1: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and I have just a great podcast today. I am so excited. This is a group that I have worked with just a little bit here and there, and I've really wanted to bring them onto the show, so this is kind of a special day. And that is Todd Miller and Seth Heckaman with Isaiah Industries. Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Todd Miller: Great to be here. Thank you so much, and thank you for all you do for our industry, Heidi, you're fantastic.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, Todd, I feel the same about you. It's been so much fun to work together on Metal Construction Association and just to kind of spend more time, it's been great. And Seth, welcome.

Seth Heckaman: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much, Heidi, it's going to be a great time today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. So we got a lot to talk about, but first I would love to have you both introduce yourself. So Todd, let's start with you, if you could introduce yourself, give everyone who doesn't already know it a little bit of your history in the industry, and tell us about Isaiah Industries.

Todd Miller: Sure. So tell you a little bit about the company. The company was actually founded by my father back in 1980, so we're something like 43 years into it at this point. We've always had a focus on what we call specialty residential metal roofing as a manufacturer of those products. So back in our early days lots of folks knew us as the ones who were producing the brightly colored roofs on Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen and IHOP and all those chains.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh yeah.

Todd Miller: When I came into the business in the mid-eighties full time, we realized that that commercial business was always going to be kind of prone to architectural fads and construction cycles. But we knew that there were a few folks out there who were really pioneers in terms of getting involved with selling metal roofing residentially. There were some guys in Texas, Southern California, Eastern Pennsylvania of all places.

And so my job was, I went out and spent time with those guys, kind of tried to learn what they were doing and how they were doing it. And then we just started building a network of what we call dealers across the country. And a dealer is a home improvement contractor who sells and installs our products. And so we work to develop those dealers and help them be successful with our products.

And I'm really blessed, Heidi, I've got an amazing team here, have for many, many years. And that has allowed me to be heavily involved at a trade association level, working both with Metal Construction Association, which you mentioned, which is a great organization, that focus more kind of on the technical side of things, if you will. And then I've also been involved with the Metal Roofing Alliance, which is more of a market development association.

So I get to do a lot of that. Occasionally a homeowner calls me up and they have questions or things that they're running into, and I love working with them. And they let me fill the soda machines in my spare time as well, so all fun.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, first of all, I love the Metal Roofing Alliance, and you have done such amazing work with Renee and that team over there, it's just so cool. And soda machines, they need to be stocked.

Todd Miller: Yeah, do what you got to do.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, I love it. Seth, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do at Isaiah and your history in the industry.

Seth Heckaman: Yeah, absolutely. So I get to serve as our vice president of sales here at Isaiah, which means I get to work with our sales, marketing and customer service teams to serve those dealers and homeowners across the country who are working with our products. Been here for a little over 13 years now at this point, and just really been blessed plugging into the culture and organization Todd and his business partner Kelly have built here.

But day-to-day, working with our sales and customer service folks, that's obviously the task-driven things of answering basic questions and processing orders and making sure people have what they need. But really one thing that Todd has led us in, and we keep trying to live into every day is going beyond that and trying to provide the highest level of support and service in the industry. Being more responsive, answering people's questions, caring for them as best we can, but then also coming alongside those dealers and trying to provide as much value and impact to their success on a daily basis as well.

So for us that looks like sales resources and tools. We have a full in-home soup to nuts process of how to go into the house and walk someone through an evaluation, whether metal roofing is right for them. So we do a lot of training on that on a regular basis, as well as lead generation programs, installation training, additional support. Because how we are unique is, instead of just pushing it through mass distribution, we get connected with those dealers like Todd mentioned. So once we've decided and the dealers decided to work together, we're in the same boat trying to row in the same direction, and we're ultimately not successful unless they're successful. So that's the fun part, trying to get creative on the additional ways we can just help increase that success for everybody.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You know what, I loved what you just said. You said, "We like to do an evaluation to make sure metal roofing is right for you," not, "How we're going to sell it to them," but is it right. And that just right there, even in your terminology goes to exactly what you're saying about caring about the customers and really doing the right things. And of course, metal roofing is pretty much right for everybody, but not always, not always. Tell us a little bit, Seth, just while we're on this, tell everybody out there about your products.

Seth Heckaman: Yeah, absolutely. So like Todd said, our specialty are the specialty products. So we do a little bit of standing seam, what people typically think of when it comes to metal roofing. But it's those modular shingle products that date back to the fifties and sixties, and we're still producing today, as well as adding other products and profiles into the mix.

But principles of our sandbox are fully interlocking, concealed, fastened Kynar-coated metal shingles that look like either slate, tile, asphalt shingles. So my line when I'm working with homeowners or working a home show is, "We specialize in metal that doesn't look like metal." So folks that want all the benefits but don't want it to look like a dentist office or other commercial building, that's where we come in.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, the performance and the durability, and it looks like exactly what they want, whatever the architecture might be.

Seth Heckaman: Exactly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. That is so cool. Okay. And from all of this, this great company, great products, great history, Todd, you developed, and with some other folks put together the Metal Roofing Summit. Can you tell us about that and how it got started?

Todd Miller: Absolutely. It actually has a history that goes back about 25 years. So whereas Isaiah Industries is our corporate name, we manufacture and market three brands of metal roofing. Those brands are Classic Metal Roofing Systems, Kassel & Irons, and also Green American Home. And so we have dealers across the country and even some outside of the United States that sell all three brands of those products.

So about, I guess really in the mid-nineties, I think maybe '94 was our first one, we decide, okay, once a year we're going to get all of our dealers together and just have a good time and do some training and do some recognition of their achievements and so forth. And that went on for...

Todd Miller: ... and so forth. And, that went on for quite a number of years. About probably 10 years ago now, we decided, how can we expand this? It felt like at our annual dealer meeting, we were preaching to the choir because everyone, there was someone we already knew, someone who was already active in metal roofing. And so we developed this idea about 10 years ago of the Metal Roofing Summit. And the Metal Roofing Summit is really open to anyone who might be selling any metal roofing product, or even just maybe a home improvement contractor that is saying, "Gee whizz, with the growth of metal, should I be selling metal roofing? How can I learn more about it?" And, so we put together the Summit idea, invited anybody. We even have competitors that register and come to the Summit and we welcome them.

The Summit is not at all an advertisement for our products. In fact, a lot of times I'll have people come up to me at the end of it and say, "You never really told me anything about your products," I'm like, "Yeah, we're happy to do that, but isn't what the Summit is about. The Summit's about having great speakers to come in and help contractors out there raise their games, so that they can be as successful as possible.

One of the things that we recognize as a manufacturer is, we don't sell anything. It's really our dealers and the contractors who are the ones who ultimately sell our products. So, our whole goal has to be about making them be successful because they are the ones that are out selling the product, we are only successful if they are successful. So, that gave way to the idea of the Metal Roofing Summit. We held it here in our hometown of Piqua, Ohio for several years, and last year we branched out and moved it to Dayton, Ohio, to the beautiful University of Dayton Marriott facility.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Nice.

Todd Miller: Which has just been a fantastic venue for us to bring people together.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Talk about being a leader and an initiator. In the roofing industry, you haven't heard in the past a whole lot the term dealer, but yet in other trades, siding and other places it's just so common. And so you really took something and put together, it's so unique. And to be able to bring all of those contractors together, I have to say, it always seems like contractors learn best from contractors. So, to have that kind of network, that's really powerful for everyone who works with you, I would think.

Todd Miller: Yeah, and that's really fun too because, so at the Summit we have folks who work with us or work with maybe some of our competitors' products, very familiar with what they're doing. But then we also have a lot of newbies, folks who are saying, "Hey, I'm here to learn and teach," so a lot of relationships develop out of that. Our speakers are one part of the education they get, but another part is when they start to make connections with each other. And I'm always amazed when I'll have a contractor tell me that they just had a conversation recently with another contractor across the country, and I'm like, "How in the world did you get connected to them I know both of you," and they're like, "Well it was at your Summit that we met each other." And those relationships continue with iron sharpens iron. These guys just learning from each other and sharing ideas and best practices.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. And to your point earlier, you were really talking about the growth of metal. And I mean MRA came out with that report this year from Dodge, and metal has about 17% market share, up from 3%, I think that was in the '90s, and it's just growing so fast. So what are you, Todd, I'm going to start with you and then Seth, I'd like to hear some of your thoughts too. What are you seeing with contractors getting into metal through this type of course, and growing their market shares by having this offering and really understanding it?

Todd Miller: Well, I think one of the things that we're seeing is, even though most every roofing contractor out there will say that they put on metal roofs. And, they do that, they feel that they have to do that because of where the market share is going and has been continuing to grow. And so they've realized, "I've got to get involved in metal," but then what you also find when you really dig into it, in most markets, there is a very select group of contractors who are putting up most of the mental jobs. And by and large for a homeowner, they probably want a specialist doing their metal roof, unless they have an incredibly simple roof. They really want the benefit of someone who has experience, who has training from a manufacturer, and so forth. And so what we're really seeing as metal gains market share, is the opportunity for these contractors to really come in and command their own marketplaces for metal, and become the metal expert.

Maybe Seth will weigh in more on this, but I think some folks are thinking, "Gee whiz, 17% market share, maybe the opportunity has passed, maybe it's too late for me to get in and really become a leader," and that really isn't the case at all. I don't know of a single market in the United States, and over the years I've been in and out of hotel rooms in all of them. But I don't know of a single one that doesn't still have the opportunity for someone to step up and really become a recognized leader in metal roofing.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, we're just hearing about the demand, too. I think I personally, just looking at the statistics and the report that came out from MRA and everything, the only reason the market share isn't growing faster is because of the people who can install it. We are not meeting the demand of the consumers for metal. And so if they can't get metal fast enough, then they go back to more of the traditional other products. And so, to me, attending a summit like this, where you can really add that to your offering and do it well and do it right, is just huge amounts of opportunity.

Todd Miller: The day after the Summit, so we talk a lot about the Summit dates being April 25th through 27th, but the day after that on the 28th, back here at our training facility in Piqua Ohio, which is just about a half hour away from Dayton, we will actually have a hands-on, but an installation training focus. We will be focusing on talking about how to manage metal roofing projects. And we will also be giving folks a chance to see an overview of what metal roof installation looks like. And that's going to be appropriate for anyone who is maybe selling metal roofing, but also appropriate for someone who might actually be hands-on installing metal roofing and they want to learn more. So, that's a part of the Summit we don't talk a whole lot about, but it's actually a very valuable part, is for the select folks who want to get that installation overview as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Installation training, one of the top needs. So, for our labor force and what's going on. Seth, and I see you nodding. I know everybody, you can't see us on this podcast, but Seth is nodding. And so Seth, what are you hearing from the contractors with their needs and this huge growth in metal?

Seth Heckaman: Yeah, that installation capacity on all products is a problem right now. That's not unique to us. And so, metal provides a unique opportunity for both contractors and subcontractors, whether it's W2 employees as well, where metal is the-

Seth Heckaman: W-2 employees as well, where metal is a bigger ticket, a high value solution, where everyone can do very well. If you learn how to install metal roofing, you're going to do very well. If you learn how to sell metal roofing, you're going to do very well. And then rather than the commoditization of other roofing products that has squeezed out the opportunity, and some of the key players, installers, salespeople, companies are all fighting over a very small piece of the pie. So homeowners get a great solution while also everyone's able to still be successful and accomplish their goals.

So when you present that opportunity along with this 17%, which sounds big. With some of the companies I've been working with, have equated that to more than one out of every seven homeowners are re-roofing with metal at this point. And that's framed a new perspective for a lot of companies that are primarily selling asphalt shingles. Even if they say they're selling metal, they're not nearly selling up every one out of seven jobs they're doing, so they're missing that opportunity.

But a lot of our most successful dealers over our history and who we're seeing get into the market are companies that have avoided roofing historically. Because again, it's largely a commodity product often, and it's tough to go into the house and build a lot of value and to a homeowner and asphalt shingles like every other asphalt shingle. So how do you distinguish yourself? But now the value opportunity to your business plus the market potential out there, it seems to be hitting a sweet spot for a lot of folks where they're getting excited about the opportunity and coming to the summit is a great way to start that journey.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is it and perfect, because I want to talk more about the summit and the contractors. So Seth, can you just walk us through? I'm a contractor and I show up, what's that summit look like over those two to three days?

Seth Heckaman: So like Todd said, it is not at all a commercial for our products and for folks especially new to metal roofing, we do need to supplement the summit with some of those, that nuts and bolts training of how it gets installed and how you go into the house and what the sales process and presentation looks like. And we have other things throughout the year where we help with that. We have a couple of dealer onboarding sessions, and we also just are offering that training every day to folks as it gets scheduled.

But the summit is really trying to offer that cutting edge information and resources on the sales, marketing and leadership as well. Just overall business management and leadership. With plenty of opportunity for networking, like Todd said, mixed in. So companies that are brand new are able to network with companies that are selling 5,000 squares a year, and those companies that are selling 5,000 squares a year are learning things from those brand new companies because those brand new folks had been out there selling sunrooms or baths or high-end siding that what they've learned from a sales and marketing end is definitely applicable to our products too. So there's huge value all around.

But we have a great networking session that first evening, the 25th, which is a Tuesday, and then the agenda portion, the content is Wednesday through Thursday mid-afternoon where we have our speaker line up. We start with the opener. David Yoho will be joining us for a session entitled Leading into the Future, knowing that this coming year and the years beyond are going to look different than the last few years, which is going to present opportunity and challenges along the way. How we handle that from business leaders and owners in navigating that moving forward.

But then diving into some great sales content that afternoon, and then Thursday morning will largely be focused on lead generation and marketing. Something that, yeah, we need to make sure we mention it, which is an additional huge value of the summit, are the sponsors we bring into the fold as well to increase the value for everybody. We're very picky about who we ask and who we invite to be sponsors. We want it to work out well for everybody. That way the sponsors want to come back and the attendees feel like they got even more value out of being there. So we've got people everywhere from financing, lender options, digital marketing firms, equipment pioneers and innovators. So key connections, relationships too that can improve everyone's business this year and beyond.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's cool. That's very cool. So as a contractor, it sounds like they're really going to come there, the focus on sales and then on marketing. And then I love, Todd, what you said. The following day that you really don't publicize is installation training. You've put a great package together to be able for ...

So I want to think about the contractor down the road who right now maybe just is doing asphalt shingles. So not a traditional dealer, but more of a traditional roofing contractor. How can this help them? Because I'm really interested in that as they come in and start learning about dealers and becoming a dealer. So you're learning about more than just sales and marketing. You're learning a whole new way of going to business. And Seth, you're nodding. Have you seen that kind of transition?

Seth Heckaman: Yeah. Metal, new metal roofing definitely presents some unique elements to incorporating it into your business versus some other products. We work with asphalt companies across the country and sometimes they just add us in as the best option and their good, better, best, and they maybe sell a job or two a year, and that's great. We serve them as best we can. But in terms of going out and really building a significant metal roofing business, or making metal roofing a significant chunk of your business, it does have some nuance and uniqueness being a premium niche solution that you really do have to generate metal roofing specific leads and go in and build value in that system that's going to be more expensive than anyone else that showed up to talk to them about a roof. So it is a different ballgame.

Frank Farmer is one of our featured speakers. He's one of our largest dealers in the country, our largest dealer this past year out of Michigan, and came from a background in windows, siding, sunrooms. Saw the opportunity in metal sooner than most 23 years ago and has been pioneering the way at the retail level ever since. He's going to be giving us a great 90 session on the in-home sales process on, okay, how do we go into the house and build value and solution that's more than they ever thought they would need to spend on a roof. But if they want to accomplish all these things, this is their best solution. We just then help them fit it within their budget all in a way where we do that in one call. We get the contract and we're back installing it a few weeks later, and everyone's ecstatic and excited about their new roof.

Which, when people hear about selling metal roofs in one call for $50, $60,000 a pop, that that's a new way of looking at business for a lot of folks. So it is getting in the room with people that have been doing it for a long time and just starting to get a vision for what it could look like for your business. The summit is a great spot for that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I know Frank Farmer. He's awesome. Todd, you worked with him, I know, for a long time to share. I'm really interested in how these contractors ... You're bringing contractors from so many different places and then your ... and the uniqueness of the success of Frank's business too. So yeah, please share.

Todd Miller: Sure. Well, I think one thing that a lot of contractors find, roofing contractors who start offering metal, and what they find is at the end of the day, they don't know how to price-

Todd Miller: ... find is, at the end of the day, they don't know how to price jobs right, they don't really know how to sell the value in the home. So, they come away from the few metal jobs they do saying, "I don't know if I want to do that again," or, "I didn't make enough money on that." Or, "Gosh, we really struggled with getting that job installed." So, it puts a taste in their mouth, where they start to say, "Ah, I just try to avoid metal even though I say I do it, I'm trying to try to discourage people from really doing it." What happens when folks attend things like the summit is they start to understand that big picture of what it takes to be successful as a residential metal roofing specialist. So, they start to understand how to price jobs, how to figure their cost.

They start to get this concept of the in-home sales presentation. Which by the way, Seth is extremely modest about it, but I do not know of a better sales trainer out there for the in-home sales presentation of metal roofing. So, they walk away from this, realizing that, "Gee whiz. There are things I can do. I can really specialize on this. I can start to become the one who really does command my marketplace, in terms of metal roofing, and I can be successful and build more of a legacy business." Rather than just more of a business that gives them a paycheck. So, that's just a fun part of it. The Metal Roofing Summit, for a first time attendee is only the beginning, but we give them the resources and the knowledge, and they start to realize, "Okay. Now I'm starting to know what I don't know." We give them the resources to learn that, and again, to be successful.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love that. I love that. I think that is really... When contractors and companies, whether they're coming from the home exteriors or the home improvement, or if they're coming from a traditional, more traditional roofing business, this is the kind of stuff that differentiates them. This is the type of the products in their community, what they're doing and what they're offering, I think. This is the perfect place to get started. It really is. So, Seth, again, dates, and then let's talk about how people can sign up.

Seth Heckaman: Absolutely. Absolutely. April 25th through the 27th, so eight weeks from earlier in this week, when we recorded it, so it's coming up, we're really excited. April 25th through the 27th, that's a Tuesday through Thursday. That first night is just a welcome reception. Everyone can break out and start to get to know each other, to set the stage for great conversations over the next couple of days. Then Wednesday all day, Thursday will end at 3:00 PM in the afternoon, and Dayton is a really convenient place to get flights out of. So, you can make it home and still get some work done at home before the weekend. But in the full agenda, all those details, hotel links and reservations, and the ability to register is on the website, metalroofingsummit.com. Early bird rates are available for another couple of weeks. I truly think that packed content top to bottom, great value and best bang for your buck event in the industry at this point.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Okay. Now, I know we were a little quiet, not a lot of people know, but what if they want to get some of that metal installation on Friday? How do they do that?

Seth Heckaman: That's good. Yep. So, Installation Overview and Successful Project Management, that's the session title on Friday. That is a pretty full day on Friday, 8:30 to 4:30, and we'll cover those details. We are blessed, like Todd said. We have a great team in all facets here, but Marlon Barn is our key installation trainer, and he will be offering that. Been around the block for 25 years himself, and will set people off on a good trajectory for installation too.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It sounds like the perfect opportunity for an owner, the sales leader, and the operations leader to come together, and really learn together how to build their business over those days. It makes total sense. Maybe they can bring their marketing person too.

Seth Heckaman: Absolutely.

Todd Miller: It really is. It really great for any team member. One thing we haven't mentioned is, on Tuesday before the reception Tuesday evening, we will actually give a plant tour here at our facility. We have about 180,000 square feet full of metal roofing manufacturing. So, we invite people here for a plant tour on Tuesday as well. A lot of guys walk away from that with a much better understanding of metal roofing, and boy it's fun to be able to shoot some video of them standing in front of the machinery that makes the products and so forth as well. But I will say too, can't stress enough, Dayton is so easy to get in and out of. If someone wants to fly into a bigger airport, Columbus, Cincinnati and Indianapolis are all within an hour and a half or so drive. So, those are all very convenient as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Great location. I have to tell you, I love plant tours. So, one of these days I'm going to be coming your direction for one of those plant tours, because there's nothing better. It's so much fun. People think I'm a little nerdy about it, but I love to see how things are made and put together. So, I can just imagine what yours would be like. Wow. Everyone out there, you can also find all this information of course, on Roofer's Coffee Shop, where you can get the full directory. We have all the information, where you go to sign up, how to get there. I just can't encourage this enough, because what I hear every single day is, "We need more training, we need more education. We want to differentiate our products." This is your chance. It's right here. So, Todd and Seth, thank you so much for being on this Roofing Road Trip. This is great.

Todd Miller: Thank you, Heidi.

Seth Heckaman: Thank you very much. We've enjoyed it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you. We will have you back again, because we want to continue this and we want to talk. There's so much great stuff going on in metal, and you are all a wealth of information and really taking the industry to the next level. So, again, thank you so much.

Seth Heckaman: Thank you, Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm going to thank everybody out there for listening to this podcast, being a part of Roofer's Coffee Shop. Please be sure to check out the Isaiah Industry's Directory on Roofer's Coffee Shop for all of this information. Be sure to check out all of our podcasts under the read list and watch navigation, under podcast and Roofing Road Trips, or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and get notifications, so you don't miss a single podcast or a single Roofing Road Trip. We will be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi, from the rooferscoffeeshop.com.

Want to learn more? Register now for our Metal Roofing Summit!