Sealant solutions for modern construction challenges - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Jacque Ince and Miguel Pena from H.B Fuller. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Hello and welcome to MetalCast from MetalCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we've got a really fun interview podcast today. We are going to be talking about sealants and how they are really the solution for modern construction challenges. So who do we need to talk to? Of course, we need to talk to HB Fuller and really look at what they are bringing to the world with the experts of Miguel and Jacque. Welcome gentlemen.

Jacque Ince: Hey, Heidi.

Miguel Pena: Thank you. Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm so excited. So we did this earlier this year. We did an interview, but the sound was a little off so we were like, let's do this again and do a full MetalCast and really get some great information. So let's start out with introduction. So Miguel, can you start and tell us about yourself and what you do?

Miguel Pena: Sure. My name is Miguel Pena. As you said, I'm the previous owner of GSSI sealants. GSSI is a brand that's been making beautiful sealants for the metal industry for over 40 years. We joined H.B. Fuller in 2022, and I've been working with H.B. Fuller since that point to help them develop their adhesives and sealants for metal construction.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Excellent. And we've worked together for quite a while, Miguel-

Miguel Pena: Yeah, we go back for-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:01:27].

Miguel Pena: Yap. [inaudible 00:01:27] work and all kinds of good stuff.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. Jacque, if you could please introduce yourself and tell us what you do.

Jacque Ince: Yeah, thanks Heidi. My name is Jacque Ince, and I'm a product manager with H.B. Fuller. And I was actually the one that helped transition GSSI into H.B. Fuller and kind of welcomed Miguel to the team, and get GSSI incorporated into the H.B. Fuller family. And now that has transitioned into a product management position working alongside Miguel just to build out our products in the metal building industry. So it's been a great learning process and happy to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is great. Well, let's start with that. Jacque, maybe you can start as product manager with the range of sealants and adhesives you have for metal buildings.

Jacque Ince: Yeah, definitely. So H.B. Fuller actually not only offers products for application, but we also have products that are targeted toward assembly of metal panels as well. So kind of your one stop solution for panel assembly. And then when you're in the field application, so on the application side, GSSI really was our introduction into the metal building industry with the GSSI non-skinning butyl tapes. So we offer a wide range of sizes in the butyl tape. And then do accompany that, we have non-skinning butyl caulk, we have hybrid sealants, we have restoration tapes. We actually have expanding foam for when we're setting posts for metal building as well as a full line of just other types of sealants, everything that you need for application and different types of scenarios.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is a lot. I'm telling you, that is a lot. So Miguel, let's talk through that a little bit. Just what are the primary... Let's talk about where you're using your products throughout the metal building like Jacque was saying, and really what are the benefits in today's construction?

Miguel Pena: Yeah, so we as GSSI sealants have always been on the installer side. So when you're putting a building up from the beginning, and so the non-skinning tapes are used in between the panel construction usually for roofing mostly. But as a small company really we were kind of one trick pony, that's the only product we offered. And so as Jacque mentioned, once we joined H.B. Fuller, they had a lot of other products. Some that they were kind of marketing to the metal building industry, but others that they weren't really focused on metal but these were metal products. They just didn't realize that or they needed some direction. So for example, as we mentioned, the butyl caulks and the eternabond tapes from a roof patch standpoint. So along to really the hybrid sealants that we're bringing to market, which are really more for the wall segment and the MCM market and possibly IMP market, things that we as GSSI hadn't done previously.

Miguel Pena: So it's kind of looking at all of these competencies that we have and seeing where they apply to metal. And so it's been a huge learning process for both of us. It's really exciting for me as a company that's done one thing really well for 40 years, but always wanted to be able to offer other products. And so what the benefit to the market and the consumer is that, coming from a small company that can only offer so little joining H.B. Fuller is a company that's worldwide and really steeped in R&D. R&D is at the core of this company. And so it allows me or us as segment leaders to kind of go in and say, "Look, these are what we're hearing. These are the needs of the market, these are the problems that we're finding." And then we have teams that can really help develop those products for us or streamline the products that we're already making.

Miguel Pena: As well, we're not just in construction. H.B. Fuller has a huge division of health and human services, and engineered adhesives for glass and other types of markets like that. So we also learn from their competencies and we find there's products that they're developing that are actually applicable to metal as well or can be at least tweaked a bit. And so it's really that kind of worldwide, broad spectrum that's really going to be such an asset to the market.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And when you think about how much metal is growing, Miguel, we were just at the MCA meeting and we are seeing the growth that's out there. This is becoming more and more important to have additional solutions. So I love that about the R&D with H.B. Fuller. I think that's incredible to be able to bring that to it. One of the things I'm curious about is all around sustainability, because metal has such a strong sustainability message and we're seeing that out there. And to be sustainable you have to have all the right accessories, the sealants, everything in there. So what are you seeing around... And Miguel, I'm going to start with you again, what are you seeing around sustainability and really the part that H.B. Fuller is playing into the metal buildings?

Miguel Pena: Yeah, so I think this goes back to, as you mentioned in the Metal Construction Association, I can't remember how many years ago it was that we did the study, but we completed a lifecycle study on some metal roofs that were 30 years old. And we went in and studied all these metal roofs from various parts of the country, various different kind of climate regions and things of that nature to see how they had deteriorated or performed in those 30 years. And what came out of that, one of the key findings that came out of that was that the metal had been affected very little. But what was the most important factor was the longevity of the sealants that were in there, because one thing with metal roofing and metal construction is it's very difficult to replace those easily, those sealants that go in an application. So a lot of that story of sustainability with metal is its longevity.

Miguel Pena: And so the ability to be put in place and to stay in place for an extremely long time. And so our goal, I think as a manufacturer is to design those products that are really intended to last along with the metal as long as it's going to be in place and in service.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That makes so much sense because if it doesn't last, then you're going into landfills. If water's getting in, you have water intrusion, all of those different types of things. Jacque, as you're kind of working as a product manager, looking at bringing the different adhesives and sealants into... And I should say sealants, sorry, sealants into the mix with metal buildings, what are you kind of seeing? I'd like your thoughts too on sustainability and then also that next step of how are we making it easier for the contractors? What are we looking at because labor is such an issue? But let's start, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the sustainability from product management point of view.

Jacque Ince: Yeah, I think definitely sustainability is a key topic and target for H.B. Fuller as a whole. All of our products we like to gear toward the future and sustainability and just what can we do from a product standpoint to really push that message forward. We mainly focus on the hybrid sealants that we bring to market. So really those are a no VOC application and really targeted to replace polyurethanes that have a higher VOC content. And with the formulation of these products, they adhere to a wide range of substrates. So that fits in that ease of application and really meet all of the regulatory standpoints. If you look within Europe, Canada, even the West Coast and the US, everybody's moving toward that loaded VOC regulation and hitting those specs. So the line of hybrids really help with that and just all types of applications. The performance combines the best of a polyurethane as well as a silicone into one product. So it's really a cool, innovative solution that we're continuing to develop and market and push in the metal building industry.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. And to kind of continue along that thought, you said ease of use, what are some of the steps that you've taken along with that, but how does that all come together to make it easier for the contractors?

Jacque Ince: Yeah, definitely. I think offering a wide variety of packaging solutions. So we have pails, we have sausages, we have cartridges, really depending on how big of an application that you have. And then with the adhesion capabilities of the hybrid, being able to bond to a variety of substrates. So our hybrid sealants we classify it as a multi-use technology, so it can be used as a adhesive, as a sealant, it can be used within metal building and concrete. So really we have a product developed for any type of situation. And that really helps contractors when they're deciding what's the best sealant to use per the situation and substrate within their metal building, we can then quickly offer them, here's your sealant that you need to get the job done right and have good longevity out of the product.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So I love that. And Miguel, you are with the contractors all the time. I know you have some really long-term great relationships. What are you hearing from the contractors on your products and how these products are helping them with their labor shortage?

Miguel Pena: Yeah, I think we hear a lot. Well, one of the places that is great for us from that is at IRE at the Roofing Expo where you get such a great huge contractor base show up in one place. And we get a lot of our feedback at shows like that where we see folks from all over the country, and they give us a lot of feedback on things that are working for them, the issues that aren't. And just for example, this is very much labor related, I had a customer say, "Look, this box that we sell this product in, it's just heavy." It was like a 60 pound box. He's like why do we do it this way? And I said, "We do it that way because it's always been done that way. I don't know, that's the standard." He's like, "Well, can we cut it in half?"

Miguel Pena: And I said, "Yeah, absolutely. Nobody wants to be lugging a 60 pound box up on top of a roof." And so it's listening to those type of things and being able and willing to make those changes. And again, sometimes they're just as simple as that. Or it's saying, "Look..." For another example was the length of a roll. It says, "We're selling this on a 50-foot length." You know what? We're throwing away five feet every time. It's just waste. That goes back to sustainability thing. It's time, it's labor, it's getting it into a landfill. It's having to get more trash on site. So it's listening to that feedback and then delivering them a product that fits their needs. And generally what we find is if one person is having that problem, more people are having it too. But sometimes it takes that one person to speak up and let you know.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, because everyone gets so used to, this is the way it's always been.

Miguel Pena: Yeah, absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We have to step out of that.

Miguel Pena: I assume that's what you wanted. So the other thing is that, and this kind of goes back to our sustainability talk, is that we want to keep these roofs up as long as possible. It takes a lot of labor to build a new roof or to retrofit an old roof. So as I mentioned, our eternabond tapes which are roof patch tapes basically, go a long way in extending the life of a roof when it really is not the best time or it's too cost prohibitive for a building owner or a consumer to replace that roof or to retrofit it. And they need to just extend the life of it. It's a lot simpler to go up there and patch some of those problems. And it is a great product that's proven over the years.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That's awesome. So okay, when we're looking kind of at overall, H.B. Fuller is worldwide. And so you're really looking at that bigger picture of globalization, geopolitical, all of this kind of stuff. How does that influence you on the micro or where you're at from when we're talking about material shortages, which I know we've gotten through that was, oh my gosh, but now-

Miguel Pena: It was the worst.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It was the worst. And so where do you see it today and what does that bigger picture look like? Miguel, let's start with you.

Miguel Pena: Yeah, so from a globalization standpoint, as I mentioned, we have production all over the world and we have markets that we're involved in from a construction standpoint all over the world and metal as well. And so we learn a lot from various markets that we find applications to others. For example, we just were working on a project and still are in the UAE, in that region. And a lot of the feedback that we were getting was because of the extreme conditions there of heat and humidity, they really wanted to have a tape tailored to that market. And so we went back and forth and are still developing it with the customer, develop something specifically. But in the process we realized, goodness, this is a great tape and it actually has a lot of applications for North America as well. The UAE is not alone in having extreme heat and humid regions, me knowing that because I live in Houston. It's similar, maybe not as but it's similar. And so those type of worldwide problems that we find have applications in other areas.

Miguel Pena: So that's been extremely helpful for us. As well as that global footprint also is a strong asset for us from a sense of when we talked about sustainability, being able to be closer from production standpoint to your customers, which reduces the carbon impact of delivering those products to your customers which is huge for us.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow. I think to me, that is something that's so cool when you can look globally at solutions and say, this works here, that works there. Not many companies can do that. And so that is such a benefit. So Jacque, as you're looking at the company as a whole worldwide, what are some of the things that you're seeing that are kind of affecting the product management segment of this or is helping it bringing new things in that? Give us a little sneak peek.

Jacque Ince: Yeah, definitely. I think having a global network of our technical resources so that we can see trends happening in other regions that we know is a forecast for what's going to evolve in North America and continue to evolve around the world. So having those technical resources, working on products, bringing new products to the innovation table and saying, "We're going to put forward all the testing, everything to get this product ready to commercialize." And then we as a product management team can tap into that pipeline and start to implement this full portfolio products. So for example, our Australian team has developed a wide range of fire rated sealants for metal building application. And as you know, it goes through extensive testing, burn tests, everything that's needed to meet certain regulations of considering this a fire rated sealant. So we're able to test it in the Australian market, in the Asia market, Europe and now testing in North America so we can get all those testing certifications in place. And then add those products to our comprehensive line of sealants for metal building construction.

Jacque Ince: So I think just having that global network and seeing mega trends that are happening around the world that will have a big impact on North America has been very beneficial to our team. And as we build out what our innovation pipeline looks like, we always tap into our global resources.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. And you know what, that goes right down to the contractors and what value you bring, really looking at things different, getting their feedback. So it's contractor driven, but also getting that bigger picture from across so many different countries. I would like... Go ahead.

Miguel Pena: Sorry to add to that, because I think you pointed out at the beginning of that question about the issues with the raw material shortages. And at that time I was a small independent company and we struggled mightily because of that, because we did not have the global supply chain that a company like H.B. Fuller has. So the hope and what we work on in our supply chain team and our sourcing team work on every day, is making sure that those avenues of bringing products in and getting products out is hardened against future problems, which for a small company was very difficult for us and a stressful time.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, wow. That is true. And now even on the back, we're still hearing about it. There's still things happening and across and that has to do with a lot of other things that are happening obviously out there. Okay, I always love these kinds of stories. So let's end this this MetalCast with maybe each of you could share a recent project where your innovative solutions really kind of connected with that modern construction challenges. So Miguel, let's start with you.

Miguel Pena: What I've pointed out earlier was the UAE one. That one really for me was really exciting. I've done business in the UAE, in that region for many years. Being a small company, I've never actually been out there to meet my customers that were actually out there. But after joining H.B. Fuller, we have a full sales team out there. We have a production facility out there. And so I traveled there with Jacque in February and met directly with the customers there and the installers there. And really heard their issues face to face, which is important. And that has led to a novel new sealant tape that we hope to expand not only in that market but in North America as well. So it's been really exciting.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Definitely in Houston.

Miguel Pena: Yes, definitely Houston.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Definitely in Houston.

Miguel Pena: Arizona too, probably.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And probably Arizona. That's perfect. Jacque, bring us home. Do you have a story or an example that you'd love to share?

Jacque Ince: Yeah, definitely. To kind of go back to our Australia market with some of the facade applications and architectural metals. And as you know, with new design, new buildings, you need complete flexibility within your facade materials. So it was a challenge. We had a project in Australia that they had a facade application that needed extreme joint movement in some cases with varying temperature of very hot in some places. And then as the day progresses, it also impacts just that expand and contrast movement with the panels. So they needed a joint movement that can be flexible enough to withstand that joint movement, as well as a multipurpose sealant adhesive that can bond to powder coated substrates. So they're able to develop a sealant or full of flex line of products that can meet those challenges, and actually win the business for the project along with the fire rated technologies. So it's a comprehensive solution that we could provide for the architectural metal facade application and really drive our innovation and say, "This is a need in this market. We're going to have to offer this to the rest of the market globally."

Jacque Ince: And really it's helped build out our product line while adding GSSI tapes to introduce us to the metal building market and all the potential that's out there. So really happy with the acquisition of GSSI and kind of how we've evolved as a company and offered this product line into the metal building industry.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Love it. I just am listening to both of you, I'm thinking how much fun you're having.

Miguel Pena: We guys get along really well.

Jacque Ince: We do.

Miguel Pena: We're having a lot of fun.

Jacque Ince: We are.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, and a lot of opportunity. So exciting, so many markets and so many great products. So gentlemen, thank you so much for being on this MetalCast. I just have enjoyed it thoroughly and good luck. I'm watching, we're watching, we're going to have all of your new stuff out on MetalCoffeeShops, so thank you both.

Miguel Pena: Thank you so much.

Jacque Ince: Sounds great. Thanks, Heidi. Appreciate it.

Miguel Pena: Appreciate it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you.

Jacque Ince: Have a good day.

Outro: And thank you all for listening. This is the MetalCast, this is where we bring you information that helps you with your metal buildings, your metal construction. Be sure to check out all of our MetalCasts on MetalCoffeeShop under the read, listen, watch navigation or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on MetalCast.