Importance of Maintenance Contracts - TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Todd Nathan from Johns Manville and Eugene Zukowski from Jobba Trade Technologies. You can read the transcript below or watch the webinar.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another lunch and learn from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I am here today to bring something that is so important overall to the industry right now, and that is talking about service and maintenance. Maintenance contracts, how the best practices, all of that. We have brought the experts from Jobba and Johns Manville here today to talk to us about maintenance contracts and building your own preventative maintenance program. So let's get started. First of all, I would like to make introductions and I would love to have Todd welcome to this lunch and learn.

Todd Nathan: Thank you, Heidi. I appreciate it. I'm Todd Nathan at Johns Manville. I am the director of technical services and I have primary responsibility for all our field service organization. Johns Manville, as you know, is a Berkshire Hathaway company. We have three divisions and I work in the roofing division and we do all commercial roofing in our roofing division.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Excellent, excellent. Thank you so much for being here today. We really appreciate having your wisdom on this lunch and learn. So I would also like to introduce a returning favorite to our lunch and learns, and that is Eugene Zukowski. Eugene, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do at Jobba and about Jobba?

Eugene Zukowski: Oh, fantastic. Hi, Heidi. Eugene Zukowski. I am a senior product specialist at Jobba Trade Technologies. So really what my role is to try and be that conduit between the customers and the company to really understand how our customers can get the best use out of their product to solve their specific business needs and what Jobba is. Jobba is a platform designed to help roofing contractors manage everything from the first phone call all the way through the invoice and all that fun stuff in the middle, like maintenance contracts and doing inspections and scheduling and all that other wonderful things that happen inside of our businesses every day.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The technology that is very important to service and maintenance.

Eugene Zukowski: Exactly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Exactly. Well, good. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here today. So let's get started and let's first of all talk about our three learning objectives. Just as a reminder, you have a discussion sheet that you can use to track the conversation today and then use as a discussion point with your whole team. Remember, as you watch this and have the discussion, take a picture and send it into RoofersCoffeeShop and you might get a free lunch on us. So let's get started with our learning objectives. The first one, importance of maintenance contracts. The second one, maintenance best practices, and the third one, building and launching a preventative maintenance plan. Okay, this is important stuff. So let's start with learning objective number one, importance of maintenance contracts. So Todd, I wanted to start it with you. Why do you need a maintenance contract if the roof has a warranty, especially one as good as Johns Manville?

Todd Nathan: Well, that's a good question, Heidi. Most warranties, and I would say all the major manufacturer's warranties have a provision in those warranties that the building owner is responsible for maintenance items within the roof, and some of them actually call out if you don't perform the maintenance, then the warranty could be null, or void, or any issues on the roof that are caused by not performing that maintenance may not be covered by that warranty. So it's very important and we'll discuss later some of those items and why they're not covered under the warranty.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That makes sense. Eugene, can you expand on that too, just talking about the importance of that maintenance contract in conjunction with the warranty?

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, it's probably not something that people think about when they replace their roof, is that the fact that I need a maintenance contractor, I just got a new roof, why do I need that? But the reality is, I think about it from the contractor's point of view, is you're giving your customers the best advice to take advantage of that actual warranty that they're getting. So if you're making sure that they have a maintenance contract, when that the maintenance, being fulfilled when that issue happens, hopefully it doesn't, but we can't control that they're going to be covered. You're doing the best thing for your customer and from your actual business standpoint, you're starting to put the customer through that lifecycle model. You know what I mean? Do the roof, keep them with service and then when it's time for another roof, you are right there. You're the first person I'm going to call because who else do I call for my roof? You know what I mean?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Customer retention is just so important when you combine that with a good service and maintenance program.

Eugene Zukowski: Exactly. It's a huge part of it. You just become... To me it's like I've said this before, that next thing you know, order a pizza, who do you call? Your normal pizza place before you know it, you're that contractor that they just call.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah, it makes so much sense. So as I think when we're talking about the importance of maintenance contracts, a lot of companies out there who are watching right now are going to be thinking, okay, we have some, or maybe they don't. Maybe they're just getting ready to start a service and maintenance program. So let's talk a little bit about presenting the idea of maintenance contracts to new customers or even existing customers. So Eugene, let's start with you and dive in a little bit more to that lifecycle model.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, it really is the concept. New customer or existing customer, you really want to be in front of them as much as possible in a positive light, in my opinion, going out there, performing maintenance, something that they need, something that needs to get done. It's a low hassle approach to getting your foot in that door and providing a service that really is a benefit to them. And again, you're starting to build that relationship, that trust, you're there to tell them, Hey, this is going to be an issue. Let's get it done before it turns into a problem. So you're really starting to build that reputation with them from the beginning. And also it's really a nice avenue to get new customers. You're not going out there asking them to fix something. You're not going out there, Hey, let me change your roof. You're going out there, Hey, let me provide a service that's going to give you a lot of value. So to me, it's a nice soft entry to gain new customers as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Well, and Todd, let's think about you have a brand, brand new Johns Manville roof. When should the companies, the roofing companies, be presenting the idea of service and maintenance during that reroof process?

Todd Nathan: Yeah, obviously they should include something in their proposal and they should present that early on in the process. That way the customer starts to understand the reasons for it and why you would do it. And really the sooner they can get that maintenance program in front of the owner, the sooner they will understand that lifecycle that Eugene was talking about.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:07:26] through there. And I think also when you talk about that lifecycle, there's a lot of data that's involved. And as we are going through, that's really where Jobba comes in, is that ability to really have a baseline to know where you're at with a brand new roof and then track it through the years. So Eugene, talk just a little bit about the importance of that from the very beginning. As soon as that new roof goes on, working with your owners on that maintenance contract to be able to start gathering data.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah. The data is really the key because again, when something happens, everyone's going to say, fantastic, we know something happened. Show me proof that you've been doing that maintenance contract. So a platform like Jobba, or Jobba specifically, is going to help you keep track of that. It's going to keep all that information, what that roof looked like when we went there, what was completed, when was the maintenance done and an additional benefit to that. As a contractor, you're also gathering all the information you need when that lifecycle model comes to the part for that reroof. You've got the measurements, you've got the pictures, you know the history. Now you're not starting from scratch. You've got the reputation, you've got the information and if something happens, you have one place to help your customer provide that proof that yes, we've done the maintenance throughout this process. So here you go, Mr. Customer or manufacturer, here's all the data, here's all the information. Hopefully streamlining the whole claim process for your customer.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So whether they are a... Oh, go ahead, Todd. Yes.

Todd Nathan: Oh, I was going to say Eugene makes a good point for the manufacturer as well. If you have that maintenance log and you can show you were performing that regular maintenance, it will make it much easier if you have a warranty claim and you can present that data to the manufacturer, I can assure you that will make the process much easier for everyone.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And Todd good, because that was exactly where I was wanting to go, is just saying this doesn't matter if it's a brand new customer to your company or if it's an existing customer that you've had for many years. This should be just a routine practice of when you reroof or when... Yeah, when you reroof, making sure that the maintenance program has been discussed and is in process.

Todd Nathan: Yes, and once again, some of the manufacturers actually have a provision in their warranties that says you have to maintain a maintenance log. And even if it doesn't, like I said, if you do have a warranty claim, it makes it much easier for the manufacturer when they can see what you've been doing from a maintenance perspective to be able to identify and fix any warranty issues as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Excellent. Okay. Well perfect. Thank you. Let's move on to our second learning objective, and that is maintenance best practices. This is very important, going back to what we were just talking about, whether it is current customers, new customers, your company overall, developing and putting together best practices for your service and maintenance program. So Todd, let's start with you. What should you do during your maintenance inspection?

Todd Nathan: Well, I think all contractors should have a routine checklist, and they should be doing regular maintenance inspections when they're doing those regular maintenance inspections so they don't miss anything. They should always look at the building interior as well as the exterior, and don't forget about the building envelope while they're looking at that so they can identify if there are any issues that may appear to be roof related, but they may be building envelope. And then obviously you want to check all those maintenance items such as caulking and any kind of sealants that are used on the roofing system as well. But there's penetrations, any kind of roof units that may exhaust out onto the roof, check those areas and obviously drains and such, clean the debris and make sure the roof's draining properly as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: All very important to do yearly.

Todd Nathan: Yes. And actually probably twice a year would be what we would recommend. Typically, you want to do them in the fall before winter and then in the spring before summer, and that's really your two major season changes that the weather changes and you want to look at the roof at that time.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. There's nothing worse than plugged drains on a roof-

Todd Nathan: That's true.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: ... going into winter. Eugene, how do you use the software of Jobba to really track exactly what Todd is talking about?

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, that's really the thing is I know Todd knows obviously the requirements for them, but I can guarantee you everybody's got a different set of rules of what they want, what they don't want seen or covered. So actually what we've built in Jobba is the ability to actually create checklist for the type of work that you're performing. So we can create a checklist specific to whatever manufacturer on that roof, and then in there when we're on site, we could make sure we don't miss anything because somebody says, Hey, I want those envelope photos, another manufacturer really might not care. But the idea is that you can customize your work to make sure you don't miss anything for your customer. Because really I think the last thing you want to do as a contractor is when they say, Hey, send me my maintenance log. And they're like, Oh, you never checked this or said that you did that, and all of a sudden you got to a big gap.

But that's also a lot of information to maintain. So I think the fact that you can customize your inspections or your maintenance contracts for each particular manufacturer or set of rules really is going to make it a lot easier to manage. We don't have to remember, Oh, whoever want now. So it's just that ability to customize it and make it so it's almost error proof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And by having... Oh, Todd.

Todd Nathan: I was going to say Eugene makes a good point as well because every building is different. So every building may have a different checklist. And to his point, you can build that checklist and make sure that you're catching the right items for the right type of roof as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So Todd, when you're talking about that checklist and that inspection report to Eugene's point, I think excellent point, it's going to be a little bit different possibly for different manufacturers, different companies who are out there, even different building owners and the requirements they may have. So talk about what for you that inspection report includes and what you think it should, that overall view? Because process is king. That's what makes everything work.

Todd Nathan: Absolutely. And I think the good thing about products like Jobba is that you always get a nice consistent, concise report. And then report after report you're not looking at a different type of inspection every time, but really you want to look at that building exterior. You want to take some good overall photos of the roof and then start looking at the details. And when I say that, like I said, look at curbs that exhaust out onto the roof, make sure you're documenting how that roof condition looks because even that is really important from inspection to inspection to make sure nothing's changing. And if it is, you may want to call the manufacturer to come out and look at the roof as well. So I think all those items are important. And I could list a list probably 50 long if we really wanted to. But I think the important thing is by using a system like Jobba, you get that consistent report one after another. So the one in the spring is going to look like the one in the fall and you're going to have good documentation that's consistent throughout the roof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Eugene, take that and go a little bit, because you said something just a minute ago that really resonates with me and that is you can do custom per manufacturer, but really being able to take all of that information, what manufacturers want and create this ultimate report, inspection report that covers everything for that building owner. To me that seems like that would be a real customer benefit, a real differentiator for the company.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, it completely is. You can customize, manufacturers was just one example. Maybe you want to add your own as a contractor above and beyond or additional details or maybe the customer has specific things they want to do. So you can customize your workflows in the system to be able to adjust to pretty much whatever your customers are wanting, your vendors are wanting, whatever's really necessary. But I think what's important is that paper is obviously very important. The way it looks, the way it feels, the way it sends a message is a lot. But I think the time from a contractor's perspective is, okay, great, this sounds like a lot of fun and everyone's getting a lot of benefit out of this except for me. Well, and that's because of the time and effort that it usually takes to put these together. But I think the ability to do what you need to do quickly, easily and not forget things. But if you wanted to with the Jobba platform, you can literally generate that complete inspection report before you even leave the parking lot.

It's done, it's formatted, it's laid out, it's ready to go. You can just go run and do inspections instead of doing an inspection, going back to the office for two hours to build a document. You haven't formatted, they're ready to go, automation so everybody knows it's completed. And again, that's the benefit I feel is not only the customization and the consistent look and feel like Todd was saying because that's important, but it's the effort to produce it is also another key thing that you want to look into because as everybody knows, labor's not free. So we want to make sure that we can price these accordingly, stay competitive and also make it worth our time so it's not a huge undertaking for the company.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Time is precious. And I was just talking to some contractors yesterday who said, if you can give me time back in my day, that is one of the biggest benefits that they are looking for today. So that fits perfect. Okay, but I want to keep going through this best practices. So Todd, what if during the inspection report, during the maintenance and everything, what if the roofing company finds an issue, what should they do?

Todd Nathan: Well, I think they should identify the issues and then build a budget for the owner to say here's what it would cost to fix those items. And then they also should list must have repairs, something that needs to be fixed immediately. And then you can also list maintenance recommendations so that way ongoing they're going to eliminate some of those issues that may be found as well. So from my standpoint, making sure the owner knows what this is going to cost, make sure that they know what they're repairing and then make sure they know in future what something they may want to look for.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And if that it falls under the warranty or they find something that they're just not sure of, is that the time that they should be reaching out to the tech reps and making sure?

Todd Nathan: Yeah, that's a good point Heidi. If the roofing contractor thinks it's a warranty issue, they should reach out and contact the manufacturer. The tech rep then can come out there and meet them on the roof as well and we can make sure that the owner's taken care of if there's any warranty issues as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It seems it's better to be preventative ahead of time than to have something get worse over time.

Todd Nathan: Absolutely. We will always get out there right away if it's preventative because obviously we want to make sure that the owners don't have issues as well. So we'll come out there and look and like I said, if it's a warranty issue, we definitely want to make sure the owner's taken care of from that standpoint as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay. And Todd, I'm going to come back to you one more time. What if it's insurance? So huge hail storm, wind, who knows with everything that's going on with extreme weather today, during the maintenance and repair should they fix it or should they be... What's the best practices for dealing with what a contractor may think is an insurance claim?

Todd Nathan: Yeah. Even if it's an insurance claim, you should contact a manufacturer to make sure any repairs that are done will maintain the warranty on the roof. And then a lot of warranties now include some of those items as well. So making sure whether there's coverage that includes it is important as well. But definitely make sure the manufacturer gets involved. So any repairs, we'll maintain that warranty for the owner.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Eugene, talk a little bit about these two things, finding issues on the roof, understanding when there's a warranty, understanding about insurance. How can Jobba really help track this over time to make sure that everything is being documented and that everything is in right order for warranty or insurance claims?

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah. And that's a really good question because there's a lot of paperwork when it comes to managing these warranties. So let's start there a little bit, how the Jobba platform helps you do that. As a contractor, you can actually configure specific warranty plans and their different nuances. So I can have different warranty plans for different manufacturers. What is covered, what is not covered? I can keep track of things like the membrane code for this particular warranty is X, Y, Z, because I've seen some documents that actually require that level of detail when they're filing a claim like, well what was the build code on a membrane role and all that kind of stuff, because they also backtrack that. So again, there's a lot of data, but Jobba's made it pretty simple as far as setting those up. And then once you've added those, you can keep track of all the documents that came with it. You can keep track of specifically what inspections were there to maintain that maintenance contract.

You could even list specifically issues that are covered under maintenance versus things that are possibly going to have to be called to the warranty company to cover. So that level of details, how you can set up the system can help you avoid issues like Todd brought up a good point, unauthorized work. Now there could be something that you think, oh of course that's covered under warranty. Let's just fix this and get it taken care of. And then you find out, oh my goodness, it wasn't. And you may have voided somebody's warranty unintentionally. So again, just little things to help you dot the I's and cross the T's in the system to keep track of things and it's all in one central location.

Now as far as where these issues are, if you've not seen a Jobba platform, please feel free to, but the nice thing is in the system, is you're actually locating them on the roof where they're located. So you're marking them, you're taking pictures of that specific issue, you're even keeping track of it after you've resolved it. So if anybody ever says, well, hey, you know what I mean? How do we know you fixed that? Well, here's what it looked like before they did it. Here's what it looks like after they did it. So you've got all of that data organized in the right place and very easy to pull up when you need it.

Todd Nathan: Heidi, some of the other benefits of documenting and doing some of those things Eugene talked about as well as a lot of manufacturers depending on the roof system, have warranty extension programs and a good preventative maintenance program and a copy of those inspections will go a long way to potentially extend in the life of that warranty on that roof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is so true. That's such a great point. And really this is going to be a really simple thing I'm going to say here, but for everyone watching this, the beauty of this is that roof is tracked within the software and with the manufacturer. So you are able to track that roof from the minute you take over reroofing it going to maintenance, and so you have such detailed information. So Eugene, I know that sounds simple that everybody should know that, but I know there's some softwares that maybe you're not as specific on this is the roof, it's geo-located, we know all the different places on the roof. That is powerful.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, absolutely. You can break down a property by a specific section, by a particular corner, by even the things on your roof. Let's say you want to track the history of a curb. It's one of the smallest things that you're going to find out there, but you can get down to that level of detail in the system to keep track of it. You can have a point in time inspection. So what did it look like this day when we went out there? Versus two years later. So all of that information is in the system and it's not... I think I just wanted the effort to collect it isn't hard, it's not extra. You just do your normal thing and the data collects itself in the system itself, but then it's very easily to pull up, review and produce when needed.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And one last question on this learning objective, because I just think it's so important with best practices, but Todd, you and I have been in the industry for a while and I worked for some large manufacturers also. I can remember the day of all the paper and the ability for today for you and Johns Manville and all the manufacturers to have this kind of detail to watch it over time with all the pictures and everything. Just talk a little bit about how important that is.

Todd Nathan: It's super important. I remember when we went paperless and the work it took to get everything to be paperless, but everything is stored electronically for pretty much everything nowadays. Johns Manville system actually does the same thing. All our reports are stored electronically and our contractors actually have a portal where they could actually go upload these reports under that job that's listed in the JM system. So they actually have that ability to make sure we have the information. And that's especially important because then it's there. Then if anything people change jobs, you have different employees, but the documentation always stays there. And when it's electronic one, like I said before, it's consistent, but also you can always get to it whenever you need to.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So really best practice document, document, document.

Todd Nathan: Absolutely. Well, I think the key there is the benefit is for the owner of the building and it gives them so many more options in that lifecycle of their roofing project. Like I said, even as much as getting some extra life on the warranty at the end. But either way they should extend the life of that route by doing a good maintenance program.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes. Well, and you let us into our third learning objective. Thank you so much. Our third learning objective is building and launching a preventative maintenance plan. So let's start out with what you should include in your preventative maintenance plan. And Todd, let's start with you.

Todd Nathan: Well, first thing is include your checklist handout, and I think that's important so the owner knows the items that are going to be on this maintenance plan and what you're going to be checking. And once again, all the major manufacturers have a warranty checklist on their websites for the most part. So it's really easy to do it per manufacturer if they want. And then they need to identify the items that are really considered maintenance items. And that's like sealants, caulking, cleaning the debris out of the drains. That's why you definitely want to look at it in the fall before winter. So many times we get on a roof and see standing water because leaves are clogging the drain baskets up. So they should include that. Other things they may want to include is in their actual maintenance plan they may include, they may want to include the debris cleaning in the caulking as a benefit that the contractor could include in their program to differentiate them from others.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's nice. And as you look at this, really what you should include in that maintenance plan. Eugene, we talked about it a little bit, but just from an overall perspective. So really looking at that billing, not just with the warranty or the individual manufacturers, but just overall, what are some things that you are saying they should really be including?

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, I think not all maintenance plans are the same, and it depends as a company how you want to run them. Obviously there's benefits for the warranty and things that we've been talking about, but I also there's benefits from the contractor from growing their business. Do they want to offer a free maintenance plan, which doesn't really do a lot, but maybe builds that relationship? So maybe you want to set one up and you're going to specifically say, we'll come out, we'll walk your roof once or twice a year. We'll let you know if there's any major issues and we'll do some very light cleaning or something like that. But then to be able to also have ones where I've seen a lot of my contractors have multi-year maintenance contracts and they'll pre-bill them and that leans into an accounting nightmare. But we can help you with those situations as well with everything from as complicated as when do I earn my revenue for accounting, all the way down to when to send the invoice out.

So no matter what type of plan that you're putting, I think the biggest thing to understand is what you want to offer as an organization and get organized to get ready to start launching this. But again, a lot of things go into it and I would think the first step to me would be understanding what your company wants to provide to start.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. And I think that's great advice on both sides because when you're looking at it as a company and you want to differentiate yourself from your competition in that area, you really should look and see what other people are doing, what they're doing for their maintenance programs and being part of an overall network of contractors. And Todd, I'd love you to just chime in on this, but with looking at all the Johns Manville contractors and how they work together, it's interesting, but you can learn a lot about what other people are doing with their preventative maintenance plans and how you can differentiate yourself.

Todd Nathan: Yeah, I think through any of those networking events that all manufacturers have, contractors do run ideas past each other and they learn from each other. And then a lot of the organizations, for instance, the NRCA has a great recommendation for maintenance programs and really all the associations NRCA, I think western states, ARMA, SPRY, they all recommend roof maintenance. So that's something else that the contractor can cite as well to make sure that they're showing the owner the value of doing those things.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So whether you are thinking about starting a service maintenance program or you already have one and you're evaluating it and getting ready for the new year of 2024, Eugene, this is the time where, as they're setting it up within their software, whether it's re-imagining it or starting fresh, this is when it all comes in to be able to take your company to that next step.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, to me that's exactly what it is getting ready, getting organized to be able to actually launch that plan and get into how are we going to market it, getting our sales team organized. And I'm going to ask a very basic question, who has a maintenance contract and who doesn't in my organization currently? So it's just getting that information together and starting to really get organized around this effort. And I think you're going to do really a lot of good things for your customer and you're going to do things for the health and stability of your company.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Definitely. So, okay, as you're putting together all these best practices and understanding how, like we talked about earlier, warranty insurance, all these things, there are some things that are not included in a preventative maintenance plan. So Eugene, let's start with you. What are some things that are not included?

Eugene Zukowski: Well, from my understanding, and of course I'm going to have to have Todd back me up on this because that's right from the horse's mouth on this one, extreme weather events, from my understanding, those are not included unauthorized work, which is something we thought about earlier.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes.

Eugene Zukowski: Abuse. Yeah. So I really think some of the, to me obvious ones are not included in there. Todd, can you help me out a little bit, maybe a few more points here.

Todd Nathan: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is the abuse and other trades on the roof. So part of that maintenance plan for the owner that the roofer can help them out with is them understanding, knowing who's on the roof and when they go up there so they can also keep track of how their roof's being taken care of. So you got the abuse, extreme weather events, definitely. What you want to do is a lot of warranties include some wind riders, some hail riders. So it's important that that contractor knows those things to look for in a maintenance program or when to call the manufacturer. And abuse definitely is not covered. A lot of times we go up and investigate something and we find punctures in the roof and unfortunately those punctures aren't covered. Some warranties do include a light coverage of that. So many hours a year, the manufacturer will pick up repairs as long as those were done during maintenance events.

But if it's just strictly abuse and one of the big ones we see is shoveling snow in the northern climates where they're doing probably the right thing to try to get snow off the roof. But the people that they've hired to do that a lot of times don't understand what they're doing to the roof while they're doing it. So there's a number of items such as that. And I think those are the main ones, weather events. And that's why it's important too, as part of a maintenance program, after any severe weather, you may put a cause in there for the owner to get another inspection after a severe weather event in and around their building area.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's a differentiator. Sorry.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, that's an interesting one. There's the one that I was interested in is other trades. The way Todd presented at other trades, you want to keep a track on them. Like if my HVAC guy's up there and he pops a hole in there, that's one that I did not even think about. Is that something you would even recommend maybe that have your offer to come out after other trades do work as an option to your customer, Todd?

Todd Nathan: Yeah, and depending on the roof system and the building use, if they do regular large maintenance PM work on units or such, then it might be a good idea to schedule your maintenance right around the same time your maintenance inspection, because that is unfortunately where we find a lot of damage is when other crews are working on other items on the roof and perhaps aren't quite aware of what it takes to take care of the roof system itself.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's a great way to build a strong relationship with facility manager too, so they know you're willing to come out, check things out after severe weather, after other trades are on the roof or any abuse that may go on. I hadn't really thought about that before, Todd. That's a really great differentiator.

Todd Nathan: Definitely. And I think one of the things we see, and we tracked through some associations, but commercial building owners pay more for roof maintenance if they don't have maintenance plans. And some data that we found shows that they pay an average of 25 cents a square foot for maintenance when they don't have a plan because it's unplanned maintenance. And then if they have preventative maintenance plans, they only pay about 14 cents a square foot. So that's a big differentiator right there alone and actually pays to have those maintenance inspections.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is great during the sales process, or as you are presenting a preventative maintenance plan. So talk to us a little bit more about that, Todd, what's some of your recommendations when you're working with your contractors on how to really present that and bring the owners in to this great program?

Todd Nathan: Well, we've created some documents that roofers can use. One, a recommended checklist, but then we put some data together wrapped around building owner maintenance that they can present to the owners as well. And I'm sure we're not the only manufacturer that has it, but utilize the data and based on the manufacturer for the roof, they've already created some of that data for them. So use that data. And once again, I'm sure Eugene would say a lot of that data can be incorporated in system like Jobba.

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, we can definitely hold all that information for you. So now everyone in the organization has a central repository, but it's also so easy in the system to attach those to proposals, to inspections or other documents. And to me, that's what I always recommend to a contractor when they're doing presentations. Hey, attach your manufacturer proposals because it makes your proposal or with that extra attachment, it gives a little bit more beef, because you've got them manufacturers documentation to help you say what you're saying. So I always recommend that as a best practice as well.

Todd Nathan: Absolutely.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: This is the time of year really. I know that it's always the right time to put together a preventative maintenance plan, but this is the time of year when a lot of companies are doing their planning for the new year and it might have a little bit more downtime after their fall inspections because of the winter weather. So as a last thought, Todd, just give your overall best advice for companies to start planning, working on and launching their preventative maintenance program next year.

Todd Nathan: Yeah, I think get the data collection put together, get some reports built so you're consistent. And then they have the best lead generation program right in their own own building because they've had all the roofs that they put roofs on, all the buildings they put roofs on. So start a lead generation program based on that and really reach out to those owners that already know you as a contractor and get that information in front of them. One, if they can't do a fall inspection, then at least they can start building budgets, as you said, Heidi, for the next year. And then show them the benefits of having that roof maintenance program done. And Eugene said, maybe you offer the first one for free, get you out there, show them the benefit of what that report looks like and what it does for them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And Eugene, how can they use Jobba to put all this together?

Eugene Zukowski: Yeah, again, this is a lot of information and Todd's a hundred percent right, you've already got a book of leads just sitting underneath your nose. So Jobba will help you do a lot of things. One, it'll help you maintain all the paperwork. When you set up whatever model you want to run that's going to produce paperwork, it all can be kept in Jobba so we can stay organized. There's some out of the box reports even that'll tell you, well, I don't even know where to start. I know I got a lot of customers, but who has a maintenance contract? Who doesn't? We'll even give you a report that comes with the system, it's going to show you that data clearly. And then obviously this requires to actually do the inspections, and that's scheduling and that's time.

So we've even got tools built in to the system that'll help you set up those calendars and those schedules and get everything on the books so you can actually go out and do all this wonderful new maintenance work that we got. So yeah, there's a lot of things in the system that are going to help you from day one just to get organized.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Just to get organized. And I would recommend too, talk to some of your other contracting friends out there. I know a number of roofing companies that have amazing service and maintenance programs. They have a special division for. It is one of the most profitable parts of roofing companies businesses. So by connecting with companies like Johns Manville, connecting with Jobba, being part of RoofersCoffeeShop, you'll be able to meet other contractors out there who are already doing this very successfully and can help you so you don't have to create the wheel all over again. So gentlemen, thank you so much for this excellent lunch and learn. Eugene, I agree with you, a lot of great information. And so let's just to wrap up here. How do people get ahold of you? Let's start with you, Eugene. How do they get ahold of you if they have further questions or would like to maybe get a demo or understand better how to start their own preventative maintenance program?

Eugene Zukowski: If you would like a demo, I would suggest you send an email to info@jobba.com or just please go onto our website. You can get a lot of information, even schedule a demo through there. If you'd like to email me personally, if you can spell it, go for it. It's Eugene.zukowski@jobba.com. Happy to answer any additional questions.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Excellent. And Todd, how can folks get ahold of you to find out more about Johns Manville and all of the great systems that you have?

Todd Nathan: Certainly, anyone can call or email me. My email is easy, Nathant@jm.com. My cell is 303-601-3785, but better yet, they could contact our owner services department. And if you go to our website and you look under the owner services tab, there's a number of contacts there as well as a number of links to get you to some of those maintenance things we were talking about. And then we will be glad to help them with anything they need to help to service the owner as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. And of course, you can find all of this information, contact information plus just more information on the products, the warranties and the Jobba software on both the Jobba and the Johns Manville directories on RoofersCoffeeShop. Gentlemen, again, thank you so much for being here today.

Todd Nathan: Thank you, Heidi.

Eugene Zukowski: Thank you, Heidi.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Thank you.

Todd Nathan: Thanks Eugene.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And thank you all. Please be sure to use those discussion sheets. Have a great conversation as you're talking about our three learning objectives, importance of maintenance contracts, maintenance best practices and building and launching a preventative maintenance plan. Please be sure to take a picture while you're enjoying this over your lunch and send it into RoofersCoffeeShop and we will maybe pick you as the next winner of free lunch. Thank you so much for this great lunch and learn, and we will see you next month.