S1:E2 Sue Hawkes - Learning how to incorporate strong systematic improvements for success - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an interview with Sue Hawkes of Yess!. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Speaker 1:
Welcome to The Business Accelerators Podcast, sponsored by Owens Corning, on rooferscoffeeshop.com. Today our guest is Sue Hawkes. Make sure to subscribe and keep listening.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello, Welcome to another Roofing Road Trips. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I am with Roofers Coffee Shop. And I'm so excited today because we have started a new, little bit different, podcast around the Owens Corning Business Accelerators. Hopefully many of you have already listened to our last podcast, which was with Anna Anderson because today I have the pleasure and honor of being able to meet with Sue Hawkes. Who's one of Owens Corning's greatest Business Accelerators. She is doing such amazing things right now in the roofing industry. And today you're going to get to hear all about it, but before we start, Sue, welcome to the show.

Sue Hawkes:
Thank you, Heidi. I have to try and live up to that most amazing thing. I'm just happy to be here.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, as you know, I've been watching you, reading a bunch of your stuff and I am learning so much. I can't even imagine how much you bring every single day to the Owens Corning contractors. I mean, what a great thing to be able to do.

Sue Hawkes:
Well, I agree. They are the greatest humans on the planet. I love Roofers. I know you do too. And the sincerity, the pride, the hard work, the work ethic, the kindness, the care, the actual we're in this together teamwork, it's just awesome. I'm grateful to even be part of all of it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
After learning everything that you do, I'm so glad you're a part of it and part of the roofing industry. And for those of you out there who maybe have not had the privilege to hear about Sue as of yet, she is instrumental in entrepreneurial operating system, EOS, for Owens Corning. With her business, yes, she is out there helping every day to consult with contractors on how to run a business better, how to use it in a systematic program way. So, before I say too much, I really would love for you to introduce yourself and your company and your program so that we get it all the right way.

Sue Hawkes:
Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you, again. The worst thing in the whole world for anyone listening is to try and read your bio to people. So the simplest thing I would say is I'm an entrepreneur committed to other entrepreneurs successes. I've written a couple of books. I'm a certified EOS implementer, what's soon to be called an expert, which means I've been doing this a long time. I've worked with over a hundred companies, doing so I'm a community leader for EOS Worldwide. Meaning I teach the other implementers how to do this as well. I just have a passion and a commitment for people running a better business and doing that more simply so that they can actually have some time left over for other things.

Heidi Ellsworth:
What a great idea. I like that idea. I've been trying to incorporate some of that in my own business, in our own life.

Sue Hawkes:
Amen.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Amen. So let's talk about Owens Corning and their Business Accelerator program. You have been a strategic partner for many years with Owens Corning. Tell us about that and what you do with Owens Corning.

Sue Hawkes:
Well, what's great... And thank you again, Owens Corning is such a great resource for helping, again, roofers do better and I, very graciously, was invited thanks to Anna Anderson. So it's so cool. You mentioned her from last podcast. She's actually a client of my brothers and having worked with over a 100 companies doing this, we were invited to speak at the Platinum Conference and that's where the intro happened. And then John Gardner and I got to talking and that was as Owens Corning started to build out their university. And really, we have done three webinars to date, each two hours in length. One about vision, one about traction, one about healthy, really dissecting the tools in a workshop format or a webinar format for roofers to get a running start when and if they want to, based on the book Traction by Gino Wickman, which I know you're familiar with, and whether you ever work with someone like me to actually implement it into your business, it should help you run a better business and do better, simplify things, have more time, run more effectively overall and, again, get the peace, time and freedom that you wanted from starting a business.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes. And you're right, because I am reading Traction right now and planning on bringing it into Roofers Coffee Shop. So you and I have been spending some time and we're working because when you're an entrepreneur, you have this vision, you have all these ideas and you want to do all these things, but to really be able to sit down and create processes and procedures and systems, I think that really is the next step in success. And you're doing that with a lot of contractors. Can you talk about that a little bit? Why is that so important for roofing contractors to stop and really look at creating those systems in their business?

Sue Hawkes:
Well, you hit the nail on the head. At a certain point as an entrepreneur, we love doing great things, we love having our fingers in lots of stuff, and most of us don't run a very smooth business, but we're engaged and we're enthusiastic and we're gung ho to get the work done and we're hard working. So processes and using a system like EOS, I liken it to having Intel inside your computer. You never think about Intel, that little button, the little sticker that says Intel inside, you never think about that. Why? Because it's an operating system that makes the software you put into it work better and EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, is the same thing. Once we get it in place, the software or the humans that interact with it, do a better job. And process really is your key to scaling, to growth, to peace of mind, to fun, to less fire fighting.
You have to invest the time to systemize, not bureaucratize. So we aren't about turning you into a company with huge documentation that's difficult, what we do want is to get you to think about the bedrock you need when change happens. And I will tell you, in 2020, the clients that I've had have been like, "Thank God we had an operating system," because they could scale up or down any time and there's bedrock. That's what you press into when it gets hard or complex or things change. And quite honestly, all of my clients, not just even roofers, were re-documenting processes like crazy over this past year, we had to.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Oh, I can see that. That makes so much sense to me because everything changed so fast. And how are you working from home, remotely, getting crews out? I mean, I would think having that bedrock and having those systems in place and goals and rocks and all those things that go along with EOS would really help a company be quick and nimble to be able to take on anything new.

Sue Hawkes:
That is exactly right. And you're really astute in saying that because they say we had the equivalent of 10 years growth in a three-month time period, if you can believe that, in the March, April, May timeframe for most places. So just put that in perspective. And you think about the world of door knocking when you can't do that, or you're not allowed, or you have to have masks, or you have to have a new whole protocol for helping people feel safe. And the creative ingenious answers people came up with, because they didn't have to say, "How do we do it?" Or they didn't have to say, "What are we doing?" They had to say, "How are we going to flex with it so the system stays the same, but we're going to conduct it a little differently?" And there is anything from my roofers in the cold weather states using portable, heated, igloo kind of blow up things to...

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow.

Sue Hawkes:
I mean, it's crazy. And it makes it fun actually, because it engages you a different way to think about we're still going to do the same stuff, it's just how do we make it safe for people.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Because people, the consumers and the homeowners and the building owners, they want to trust that you're going to be able to provide those things, but also in this new normal, in this new way, that's going to be safe and sound, I think that makes so much sense and why contractors... And I'm going to jump here because I think it's important for... You talked about the contractors who you've been working with and who are already nimble, but I'm finding, being a small business owner, that this actually, in reading Traction and learning about this and starting the process, it feels like the right time. So it's not like you had to do it before, it's okay to do now too, don't you think?

Sue Hawkes:
Absolutely, I would tell you I think in times of disruption, that's actually where businesses are made or broken. So we hear about the industries and the businesses. Now, there are some like in the hospitality industry, there's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do about that because that industry has been crippled. Now, some will survive because they responded appropriately and they adjusted and got creative again. But in turbulent times, that's when you need it. That's when you want to be doing that work, because oftentimes the gift of that, in our industry we slowed down some, what it meant for me was I had to learn how to deliver what I do a 100%. From speaking, from sessions, from all our work with chasing perfection online, we had never done that before. Never had been a need.
We found events. We found groups. If we did it, it was through Owens Corning. And all of a sudden you're going, "I'm investing in technology I never knew existed. I now have an office that looks like a spaceship and can do it anywhere with anyone and make it work." And in that same way, you look at when's the best time to have a system, when it's slower, when it's harder, you need something that, again, puts a foundation under the house, if you will. Just to use your metaphors.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yes.

Sue Hawkes:
To help you really have your bearing and again, have bedrock to press into when it gets harder.

Heidi Ellsworth:
All right. I think that's so important and I'm finding it more so every day, and along with one of the other things that I know you've done with Owens Corning and that I am a huge advocate of and actually have spoken about also at different times is visualizing and how do you visualize. So can you share the importance of visualizing for roofing companies and how they should be using it in their businesses?

Sue Hawkes:
Absolutely. So, again, we are firefighters. Where we are so good is we're creative problem solvers who are nimble on our feet and we know how to respond in an emergent, to a sudden, to an important response, but what are you doing for the longterm and how is that married to this? Because otherwise you're going to be dealing with 911 calls way more than you need to be. And that's fatiguing. That's how people get burned out. It's how you plateau and you choke your own growth because the business can only go as far as you and your leadership team can be. And for some of you, that's a leadership team of one.
I'm not talking about having a giant organization because that isn't always the case, but you have to create space, to have space to create. And that's one of my quotes that I rely on the most is you've got to be able to download all this creativity that you really have and marry longterm and short term. And that's where rocks to dues, those are all right now, that's 90 days or sooner, but how do we connect that to a year from now, three years from now, 10 years from now, so that we know what we're doing today is building the path there. And that's where visualizing becomes critical because you can't reach a future you can't see.

Heidi Ellsworth:
No.

Sue Hawkes:
It's you've got to believe it before you see it. Not you got to see it to believe it. I always tell people that's the wrong way around. You got to believe it before you can see it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
And I know I've seen this somewhere, but writing it down. Writing that visualization, taking the time to write out those goals and where you want to be, even if it's not always precisely, but it gives you that vision in the future.

Sue Hawkes:
Absolutely. How do you know what to say yes and no to today if in, let's say, in five years, just take it and make it personal, what's something you want in your life? If it's a brand new house even, and you said, "I want to live in this certain area," you don't know what to say yes and no to today if you don't have that out there. Because you can say yes to everything. You can say, "Yep. I want to buy a boat. I want to go out to dinner every night. I want to throw big parties someday when we can do that." Whatever it is.

Sue Hawkes:
But without a vision for what that is, you might say yes to too many things or to the wrong things because there's no destination. It'd like getting in a vehicle and saying, "I want to go to California and not picking a location."

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right.

Sue Hawkes:
California is a giant... Where are you going? If I want to go to LA, that's very different than San Francisco. So how are you going to get there? Is it a plane, a boat, a car, a train, a bicycle, are you going to walk? Are you going to hike? And that's where as business owners, in a very metaphoric way, we're juggling those very same things. If we don't know where we're going, any road can take us there. Yogi Berra, right?

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's right. And I think it's so important because knowing so many roofing contractors and they're just amazing people and such craftsmen and women. And when you really look at this, I realized a long time ago that putting those visions together isn't just about business. It's a vision about like you just said, and that's what I love, is what's your vision for your family? What's the vision for your retirement? What's the vision for that trip or that house or whatever it may be. And I think as entrepreneurs, we tend to put all that together. At least I do. My business is very tied into my personal into my family. And I know a lot of roofing contractors are that way. So bringing in, not just yourself, but your family, your leadership team, and putting those visions together can make it even stronger.

Sue Hawkes:
Absolutely. And we have tools for all three actually, business, leaders and life. Whether people use them, that's another thing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, I think this really goes right into the webinar that you just did for Owens Corning, are you running your business or is it running you? Those kind of workshops and webinars, Owens Corning is offering from you all the time to their contractors, but maybe you could talk just a little bit about that because, I mean, I think part of is your business running you is never taking the time to stop and actually watch a webinar and do continuing education.

Sue Hawkes:
Oh, you're so spot on Heidi, because we're too busy doing what we love, hoping the money is going to follow. I love what I'm doing. I'll get to tomorrow, tomorrow. And there is no such thing. When companies come in, what they're doing is clawing back the time to work on their business because they haven't been, they work in it too much. And one of the metaphors we use that I think really describes this is if we were going to cut a path through a jungle and you and I were the best team that had ever come along in history and we could cut through it with our machines and with our tools and we were going from point A to point Z. If we stay on the ground and we keep cutting and we run into a boulder, a giant tree that's really thick and has been there for hundreds of years, what are we going to do?
We're going to go around it. So our path becomes less straight and becomes more a meandering path. So will it get us there? Maybe. Probably. Possibly. But it's not going to be the most efficient, effective path. Now, how do you get over that? And this is where a system like EOS works is one of us has to climb that tree at some point and look out and say, "No, point Z is straight through the middle of this and we're going to slow down and cut this thing down and it'll feel like it's slowing us down but in fact, it's the fastest, straightest, most efficient path between point A and Z. We aren't going to avoid the hard stuff right now. We're going right through it." Because when we're too in our business, we are responding to what is right now.
And when we marry, again, that long-term where we want to be and you pop up that tree, you have to do it at least once a quarter, which is the on the business time that we claw back so that you're able to say, "Oh yeah, that's where we're going. Yep, this might take a little longer, day one through 10, but it's going to be faster. And we're going to be more efficient all the way through." And you can't do that if your head's down the whole time. And in fact, again, what I would tell you for most of my owners and clients is they'll say taking that one day once a quarter and two days once a year is actually speeding up the gross because it's so much back, it's like 10 X back, for doing the right things first, not the easy things.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That makes so much sense to me, but it's so easy to forget. It's just so easy to forget.

Sue Hawkes:
There's so many things begging our attention. We are in fast paced, high demand, businesses working really hard. So it's not a lack of effort. It's a lack of it's hard to think that doing tomorrow's work is as important as doing today's. But when you do that once a quarter, it gives you 89 days to stay in the business, but it gives you that one day of clarity to create, to think, to work on the bigger picture, strategic stuff to realign, if you're off track, and that's what most business owners, they think oh, I can't pause that long. Well, I would tell you the opposite. You can't afford not to do that.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I agree a 100%. And it's easy during times of transition and times of what we've gone through in 2020 to get a little bit off course, but like you said earlier, the ones who already had the foundation are able to keep it going and move even faster. So I think that is so important. And I think it's important for contractors to also continue to build on the relationships that they have with their roofing manufacturers and in turn with amazing people like you, consultants who can really help them. So I would love for you to talk a little bit more about just how contractors, first of all... Obviously they can get onto Owens Corning and they can watch the webinars, they can read your information, get your books, but how can they interact with you? How can they interact? How do you make that first step into consulting?

Sue Hawkes:
Well, if you're intending on going through EOS, it's really easy. You can reach us at sayyess.com. That's S-A-Y-Y-E-S-S as in Sam, .com. And there's an info, you can info@sayyess or sue@sayyes is how you reach me directly. And what we will do complimentarily and I tell everybody this, I don't care what size your business is, I don't care whether you're ready or not, we will spend 90 quality minutes, typically we book two hours so there's Q and A buffer time, but we will spend 90 minutes with you really going through, one-on-one, an condensed version of what's in those three webinars. And you can right-size it for your business. If you're practicing EOS or self implementing, we want your tools. And I'll tell you where you're on track and off track. So you get two hours of free consulting time.
Now, if it's a good fit, you're going to say yes to working with me or someone like me. If it's not, you're going to be a heck of a lot better, and you will have gotten that. And there's no cost. There's no big hard sell. That isn't how we do this. One of our core values is to help first. And so that's one of the ways we do it. If that's right for you, reach out. If not, watch the darn webinars, because they will get you a great running start and you'll see if any of it makes sense before you ever reach out to a person.

Heidi Ellsworth:
That is such great advice, and to be able to take that time. And I'll tell everybody out there, I'm going to do it, I'm going to take Sue up on this 90 minutes. And we already are starting to read the book, Traction, and we're doing the same thing, because like I've said on many podcasts before, small business is small business, whatever you're doing and we have to take advantage and work with our vendors and work with these wonderful manufacturers in the industry. So, Sue, just share a little bit the importance of these contractors, getting involved with Owens Corning and getting involved with the loyalty programs and the business accelerators. I mean, it's such an important part, I think, of business.

Sue Hawkes:
I totally agree. One of the most wonderful things about being a partner to Owens Corning is their commitment to making everyone better. I feel like I've learned a ton being at the Platinum Conference or working with the people over at Owens Corning, because it's a commitment to help you get better in your business. I mean, just the name business accelerator, there's some pressure. You go, "I have to do well. I have to help people be better. And I want to be with people doing that." And I think they have so many offerings and are doing such a great job of always searching for more. We're in fact meeting with them, I believe, next week to talk about what else can we do. What else can we do that will help roofing manufacturers or roofers really run better businesses to live the life they want to? To have more control. So couldn't say enough great things. They are amazing.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I think they are so good. So I'm going to jump just a little bit here, Sue, because as you're talking about the contractors meeting with Owens Corning, hopefully meeting with you, you need to be a part of Owens Corning. That's the trick here, is that for contractors out there who are listening to this right now, this is one of those things that goes along with picking your vendors. And so I would say, definitely look at the loyalty programs, business accelerators, what it's bringing to your business above and beyond materials, how to grow your business. But, Sue, I think one of the questions I have for you is for contractors right now who maybe have their teams remotely, there's a number of contractors who have remote locations or they're all working at home, how do you keep this going with bringing your team together, visualizing, meeting and talking virtually, have you any tips or tricks on that, that you've been working with your contractors on?

Sue Hawkes:
Absolutely. So we can meet virtually. So when I work with clients, many of the times, probably, I would tell you 75% of my businesses since April or May of last year have been virtual, online. I like to say online. Number one, I would tell you I hate the word virtual, and I'm on a tangent about this. I'm the closing keynote for the EOS Worldwide Conference and if you've not been there, I would tell everyone to go to that because you can do it online or you can do it in person. It's a hybrid event. And it is for EOS companies and it is huge value. But one of the things I'm talking about is number one, strike the word virtual from your language because the word virtual means not. It's almost, it's not quite, it isn't. And if you listen to people say, "I don't like virtual meetings," it's not so connected and I'll go, "I've had really meaningful connections, like with you, online."
Being able to go, "I can't wait until I meet her." And sure, I would love to hug you in person and see you way more than on a screen, but does it make it less? So I tend to say digital or online just to do that. Now, secondarily, frequency. You have to up your communication. If you are distanced, if you are remote, if you are working from somewhere other than a central hub, you have got to increase frequency of communication. And everybody hates it initially but honestly, it's what's led to great productivity. Third thing I would tell you is you've got to find a way to connect away from work even though you're on a screen and have some fun together because we're missing the hallway conversations, the lunch sharing, and many of my clients have done things like let's have lunch on Fridays, we'll have it delivered to your house or you get your lunch, I get mine and there's an hour where our screens are on and we're just talking about life.

Sue Hawkes:
It is not a work meeting. It's just having lunch together. Now, is it, again, your first preference? Heck no, but it is something that connects us, unites us. The other thing I would tell you is having tools, and this is where it comes back to EOS, you have to have ways to measure success because people have to work when they're on a screen differently than when they're in an office, you have to manage your energy differently. You and I were talking about this before we got on online, you got to find breaks to be outside or move. You've got to have getting away from the blue light on your screen. You've got to manage yourself.
So in order to do that, we have to have scorecards. We have to have measurements. We have to have rocks and ways to say, "Are we on track with the big stuff?" Because I don't really care if you walk your dog three times a day for 10 minutes, or you take them at one point in the day, morning, noon or night, but you need to have some self care built in because it's different. It isn't worse. It isn't better. Some people adjust better, but we have to have some life hacks. And we have tons of those on our other site, which is yess.learnworlds.com, where you can some of these hacks just to make it more palatable.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love that. I love that. I always like to take a gem. A gem from every podcast, a gem from every webinar and that gem of not calling it virtual, perfect, because it...

Sue Hawkes:
Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love that. Because being online, we're still online with each other. We're still talking. We use Teams and our team at Roofers Coffee Shop is totally virtual, none of us work in the same space and we didn't before COVID and we won't after. We all have our own home offices and with Teams, you just click it and it's like you walk down the office, it's like you walk down the hall and you're talking immediately if you use that online video presence. So...

Sue Hawkes:
Good [inaudible 00:30:32] right away.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Really cool.. I love that. And you did talk about your other site and some of the other things you're doing and so I can not end this conversation without talking a little bit about what you're doing around women entrepreneurs too, and leadership that way. Because Owens Corning is a diamond sponsor for National Women in Roofing. Of course, I've been very involved in National Women in Roofing. I've been coming after you to get involved in National Women in Roofing.

Sue Hawkes:
I'm in. You don't have to come anywhere. I am in.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So talk a little bit about what you do from a women leadership perspective.

Sue Hawkes:
So I've been coaching and leading female CEOs since the dawn of man, since I'm older than dirt, but at least 20 years, we'll say 20. I think it's closer to 25. And I have a passion for seeing women owned businesses succeed. That doesn't mean I don't want male businesses to succeed, it just means I understand from a unique perspective, having run round tables and events for 20 plus years, what it's like to be a wife, a mom, a daughter, a business owner, a multi-business owner, and juggle that. And no one has to explain it to me or anyone else in the room. And it's different than the women who are not running businesses or running high-end executive positions. And they're similar, but that's where I think our challenges are unique.
I think we don't have to explain ourselves nearly as much. I think being able to be unapologetic for being powerful and smart and nimble and enjoying work as much as we love our families and that isn't sacrificing our care or that we don't have to have guilt in order to be successful or to be a good mom. Yes, there are sacrifices in what we do, but it's not a trade-off. And I think being in rooms with women like that where we don't have to explain it and we can all say I get it and get right to the heart of how we help each other fuels me because it's who I am, it's who you are and it's who the women that I have served and worked with for a long time. They inspire me every day.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love that. And I'm so looking forward to getting more involved with everything that you're doing, because I have a similar passion. I think women all over need to put a hand out and help other women because too often we've been pitted against each other. So I can tell you the women in Owens Corning and the men and the leadership there have done amazing things, absolutely amazing things. And obviously having you as a business accelerator is one of them.

Sue Hawkes:
Well, you are gracious. Thank you. I'm proud to be a partner to you, to them and to be anything associated with women in roofing, as well as the Roofers Coffee Shop.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well, this is great. And I have to tell you our Business Accelerator Podcast, first Anna and now you, I think I am the luckiest person in the world to be able to be a part of all this. So, Sue, before we go, one more time, I know that as Owens Corning contractors, you can go right on to the On 24 or the Owens Corning University and get ahold of Sue and get all that information. For contractors who maybe are not with Owens Corning yet, you can find all that information about Sue, a lot of her webinars, this podcast, and how to get involved on Roofer's Coffee Shop. Sue, also you were so kind to offer your email and a way to get in touch, why don't you do that one more time?

Sue Hawkes:
sue@sayyess. Dot com with two Y's in the middle, two S's on the end, or you can go to yess, Y-E-S-S, .learnworlds.com. Lots of free stuff there.

Heidi Ellsworth:
I tell you, this is a way to really take your business to that next level in 2021. And I want to thank Owens Corning for bringing in experts like Sue Hawks to really help every single roofing contractor out there. So Sue, thank you again for being here today and I'm looking forward to working with you more in the future.

Sue Hawkes:
Thank you, Heidi. You're blessed.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So much fun. And thank you all for listening. These types of opportunities are really what Roofers Coffee Shop is all about and how you can gain that information through our RLW by reading, listening, and watching how you want, when you want is what really matters. So be a part of the community, be sure to come in and listen to Sue Hawks webinars and all the other great Owens Corning business accelerator programs that are on Roofers Coffee Shop. Have a great day.

Speaker 1:
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