Roofing Road Trip with Heidi- Brian King- PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an interview with Brian King from Owens Corning. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello, this is Heidi Ellsworth, with Roofer's Coffee Shop. We are here today for a Roofing Road Trip podcast with Heidi, and my very special guest, Brian King, vice president of strategic marketing for Owens Corning. Welcome, Brian.

Brian King: How are you doing today?

Heidi Ellsworth: I am doing good. Thank you so much for being here, I am just so excited. You and I had such a great visit at IRE, that I'm really excited for you to share all the great things that are going on technology wise with your shingles, with our audience, so thank you.

Brian King: No problem. I enjoyed that conversation as well, too, and I'm glad to be meeting with you virtually.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. Yes, considering a lot of people are meeting virtually right now, this seems to all fit in perfect. Well, for our listeners out there for this podcast, like I just said, IRE is just such a great place, what an excellent show to really learn. I had the honor of walking with Brian around the Owens Corning booth, and really spent a lot of good time in the Duration series shingles area, talking about some of the new technology that you have, and that really is making a difference in performance. So Brian, I was wondering if you could just share of some that with our listeners, what we talked about?

Brian King: Absolutely. We talked a lot about the Duration series shingles, which it's got the patented SureNail technology, which is a reinforced nailing zone. It's been our source of innovation for probably the last decade, and the innovation product ... We believe, from an Owens Corning perspective, it's a shingle unto itself, it's something that provides performance in the industry that is actually unmatched.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is great. Part of that is you're taking pieces out of the refrigerator, you were showing me actual nailing in the booth. Talk a little bit about ... I know this is kind of crazy online, but I thought it was just so great how you had your booth set up, to really show hands-on to the contractors. Can you just share a little bit of that, to give people a little bit of vision?

Brian King: Yeah. We think that actually touching and working with the product is the best way to experience the performance of the product, so we, for the last couple of years, have had something called the SureNail challenge, which is when you actually nail down a Duration shingle, and you nail down competitive shingles. Then, you go through a series of test with it, to just feel what it's like. What we're normally looking at is we're looking at wind uplift, so when you nail a product down to a deck, and then you grab the corners of it, and then you lift it up. You feel the pressure that's actually required to lift it off, and you can tell right away that the amount of effort it takes to lift the Duration product off, sometimes the deck actually comes up along with it, really demonstrates what performance characteristics that we're looking for.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I was just really intrigued by the focus you had in the nailing line, with your SureNail. Why are you paying that much attention to that nailing line, can you share that with the contractors? Sorry.

Brian King: It's because the performance, and the way that shingles have been put on, especially laminate type shingles. It's really important to go through the common bond area, or the double layer of the actual shingle itself. What that does when you go through that is you get the better wind uplift, which we demonstrate with the SureNail challenge. It also gives you better nail blow through. Anytime you blow a nail through a shingle, it's an opportunity for water to actually get into the shingle. Then, the other thing is there's a delamination piece as well, too. By putting the mechanical fastener through both pieces of the laminate shingle, you end up a with much better delamination performance. Delamination happens when temperature goes up, and the two parts of the shingle actually separate from each other.

Brian King: We believe that the performance of the product from a duration perspective with that reinforced nailing zone actually gives you up to three layers that you're nailing through. What we were showing at IRE was that the Oakridge line of products, if put on through the nail line, and hitting where you're supposed to, you get two layers of coverage as well, too. Oakridge is a great product as well, too. If there's, for some reason, people don't want to invest in the performance of Duration, then using the Oakridge product, and putting it on the right way, you get great perform as well, too.

Heidi Ellsworth: Good. For roofing contractors to be able to have that differentiation, and the age old good, better, best, but to have that strong technology in both of them, that's important. That's great.

Brian King: It is, because Duration's easy to sell in the home. You walk in with a Duration product, and a contractor can show a homeowner very, very quickly and easily that their product is very different than everything else that's available. We call that Sesame Street marketing, one of these things is not like the other. In this case, it's a positive, and it really makes it easy for the contractor, and the sales organizations to go into the home and talk about what's different about the product. And why, if you're going to put a roof on, you want to make sure that the roof is going to last for a long period of time.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Right now, we have so many things in our world that are happening, but the elements, and the storms, and everything that's out there, seems to be more intense than ever. Maybe it's just us, but it's very intense with the high winds. One of the things we talked about was the SureNail technology, and how it performs in high winds. With hurricane season right around the corner, Brian, talk a little bit more about that?

Brian King: Yeah, high winds, and with hurricane season around the corner, plus we're starting to see some hail, and some windstorms in the Plains Midwest part of the country as well, too, so making sure that the shingle, as it goes onto the roof, it seals down. And then, making sure that you've got good wind uplift. We warranty our products to 130 miles an hour, and that's by putting the actual nails through the part of the shingle, through the common bond area, that gives you much better performance against wind. With Duration, you've got three layers, and a reinforced layer as well, so it provides much, much better performance in wind. With the storm season as well, hail is a big deal. You mentioned the test that we were doing at IRE, which was bringing shingles out of a freezer. That's our SBS modified Duration flex product, which is using a modified asphalt with the SureNail strip in the Duration product family. That provides you with class four hail resistance. Obviously, in certain parts of the country, making sure that if a roof needs to be replaced, if it can be replaced with a class four product, that provides the homeowner with a much better solution. And, it provides the contractor with a great sales opportunity, because it's an upsell.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. I don't know what you've seen out there in the hail belt, and in the different areas, but there seems to be some roofing fatigue from homeowners. They're getting hit with these hail storms every year, and to have this kind of product with the Duration flex, that really gives them an opportunity to fight against those elements.

Brian King: It does, and insurance companies like it as well, because what the insurance companies are doing is they're starting to incentivize homeowners with some discounts, from a premium perspective, to actually put a better roof on. So to your point, rather than a standard shingle that goes up there and it gets pounded with hail a couple times, and you have to replace your roof on a much faster replacement cycle, if you're using a class four product, it'll last longer, the hail will not have so much impact on it. As a result of that, the insurance companies are incenting people to do that as well. Even in the current environment with stay at home provisions in states, we've found that the insurance companies and contractors are able to work together, even now. There have been some big hail storms through Southern Indiana, through Illinois, and then into Michigan, and even in those environments, there's been a lot of innovation about how we actually, using drones potentially to do the inspections, or using social distancing and sending the contractor up at a separate time from the insurance adjuster. We're able to make those things actually happen today. I think it's amazing that the industry has adapted as quickly as it has, to the changing environment.

Heidi Ellsworth: I do, too. I've worked with Eagle View, and I've worked with some other manufacturers, and all these things we've been working on, that I've watched Owens Corning working on, now all of a sudden has been accelerated. Now, it is drones, and we're using technology more, and you really focused in on these products that last.

Brian King: Yeah. The products, and the product technology, that's what we've been focusing on, and making great shingles that last. Making sure that everybody understands the performance story of the Owns Corning products, both the Oakridge line and the Duration line. But you're right, the industry as a whole ... I can't remember which partner it was we were talking to, but one of the Eagle View type companies, and they said they've seen technology adoption in the last three or four weeks that they haven't seen in the last five years. With people doing virtual selling, explaining to homeowners over a computer or a Zoom connection the benefits of the product. We're able to do that as well, because Owens Corning has put together lots of videos that actually show the things we talked about, which are wind uplift, nail blow through, delamination, in really quick snippets that, even on the virtual presentation, you can actually show a homeowner what the benefit of putting a Duration product on your roof is.

Heidi Ellsworth: You know, that's interesting. As we were sitting here, Brian, I took a little note. I was going to say, as we're talking about these technologies, I want to talk a little bit, too, about your reinforcing layer. Yesterday, you and I talked about that you can fight hail on a couple different levels, so let's start there. Can you go back and add a little bit, too? I think that's important.

Brian King: Well, in the Duration product line, we have two impact resistant shingles that use different technologies, and one of them is our Duration Storm product. That has a reinforced layer on the back, it's an additional layer of scrim which protects the roof, or provides a class four hail rating. Then, we have the Duration Flex, which uses a modified asphalt, which is a little bit more rubberized, and protects from a class four perspective that way. So, there's multiple different technologies out there, there are multiple different solutions. What that allows contractors and their sales teams to do is to get comfortable with a selling or a value proposition in the home. So, we're not going to tell you that one product is better than the other, although Duration Flex is a pretty cool product, because it's the newest product. Everybody likes things that are a little new.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right, right.

Brian King: But really, it provides, again, contractors with an opportunity to get into the home, and have their sales teams get comfortable with the value proposition that they're able to deliver to homeowners. There's two different ways for a class four product you can deliver that, and depending on the contract and their sales team, and the market that they're in, they're both great products, and they both provide a better, longer lasting roof to homeowners.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think that's so important, and to be able to communicate that. When I was in your booth, going back to IRE, I saw some of those videos up on the TV screens. Let's just talk a little bit about using those videos, and explaining exactly that we're talking about here to the homeowners, to the contractors. Are you seeing ... We just said, we're seeing these leads. Are your contractors using these videos with their homeowners?

Brian King: Yeah. Contractors are using a variety of different ways to demonstrate the value of the Duration product and the SureNail strip. The videos are obviously very easy ways to take that experience that we were showing people live at IRE, and then making it a little more produced, and in a short, 30 second video that's more targeted towards a homeowner. Yeah, we're definitely seeing that. The other things we see contractors do as well is really simple little demonstrations. Even some of our contractors walk around with SureNail tape, just the actual physical reinforcing layer themselves, and they give it to a homeowner and they say, "Just pull on this, see if you can actually tear this."

Heidi Ellsworth: Nice.

Brian King: I was going to say it's almost impossible, it is impossible. That's another way, it's a quick demonstration that allows homeowners to see the performance of the product. Like I said, it definitely looks different than everything else that's out there on the market, so it's an easy way, again, for contractors to say, "You can see it, you can see what I'm talking about. It's a bigger, wider nail zone for me to talk to my crews about, it's easier to hit, it provides the triple layer protection, it gives you better wind uplift, it gives you better delamination, it gives you better blow through. It ultimately makes a better roof, that I'm going to put on for you. And oh, by the way, it's going to last longer." So, it's a really easy story for contractors to sell in the home.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know that's been one of the top things that you, your team, Owens Corning, your sales team, you do so well. I've been lucky enough to work with, visit with Molly and Brenna, who I work with, and do things with at National Women in Roofing. Your sales teams, man, they're on it, I've heard all about this Flex, they were very excited about it. They offer a lot of, I think, wisdom and great training opportunities for roofing contractors.

Brian King: Well first off, thank you very much for that endorsement, and you mentioned two of our best sales reps, no question.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it.

Brian King: What we, from a marketing perspective try to do, is we try to make sure that we're working with the sales teams, the commercial teams, the people that are in the field, to hear those ideas. I mean, the SureNail challenge which, again, is nail a SureNail product down onto a deck, or a piece of wood, or even a two by four, and then having a contractor pull that off to see how strong that is, that actually came from one of our sales reps. They were doing it in the back of their company car, and they would bring the two by four. They would nail the shingle onto it, and they'd stand on either side of it, and they'd have the contractor pull it up. We said, "Well, that's really cool. How do we actually take that, and create a video from that? How do we create different decks that we can give to contractors and salespeople, and replicate that?" From a marketing perspective, I really enjoy working with our sales team, because they get a lot of good ideas and insights from our customers. Then, we are able to make better selling tools, to allow that to be used across the country as a best practice.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Well, I can tell you, they are very proud, and they shared a lot of this. They did demonstrations at National Women in Roofing Day, they really showed these products and this technology. It's really becoming a strong viral message within the industry. What do you see, really, with the future, putting our crystal ball, of these storms? I mean, we're going into hail season, we're going into hurricane season, with social distancing, how can you help the contractors out there navigate of all this? I know you mentioned it a little bit, but let's go a little bit deeper.

Brian King: Sure. I mean, we continue to invest in Duration because we believe it is, again, the best shingle on the market, and it's got patented technology which gives better performance. So, we talked a little bit about the class four products, and the fact that we're continuing to innovate there with two different ways to solve the class four problem, using scrim and using the asphalt technology, but Duration's more than that. It's got some designer colors as well, which allow you to have a product which is both beautiful as well as performs really, really well. Most households consist of a male and female head of household. Dudes like me tend to focus on performance, whereas the other half of the equation really cares about curb appeal, wants to make sure that their house is beautiful, make sure that resale ... Things that are very different. So, the Duration product line also provides some really awesome color opportunities and color solutions. Shingle color of the year is a Duration product that we bring out every year, Pacific Wave is our color this year. It matches performance and beauty. We think that, again, back to selling in the home, you're able to offer a product that, from a performance perspective, hits the rational criteria. Then, from a fashion perspective, or a beauty perspective, hits some emotional pieces as well. So, your roof doesn't have to be something that just sits up there, and it's like, "Oh yeah, I have a roof," it can actually be a part of your house, and it can increase the curb appeal of it. That's where we're really working, listening again to homeowners, listening to contractors as they go into the home and they tell us, "Hey, I'd really love to be able to sell this." Then, we look at the value proposition, and work on either social media tools, we work on videos.

Brian King: The roofing business, we still have sample boards, we still have sales sheets, we still have some of those flip books and things like that, but at the same time we also have some great digital tools as well. Then, we integrate with some great business service partners to be able to help with a ... If someone wants to use an electronic, professional bestselling technology in the home using iPads and things like that, we also work with companies like Leap, and Hover, and Eagle View. I'm probably going to miss some, and I don't mean to annoy anybody that we work with, they're all great partners.

Heidi Ellsworth: They are, they are good. Just a funny story for you, to tell you how great your marketing is working, I actually, on the Coffee Shop, had a homeowner call from Idaho. She was on our site, and she was looking at all of your colors, and she was doing research. She had already been on the Owens Corning site. She called and asked some questions, and they were great questions. It was all about curb appeal, but it was also about performance. Working with your team and the sales team, they all were able to get back with that homeowner, all virtually, all virtually. Later on, she sent me a picture after their house had been roofed, and she was just so happy, so happy. I think being able to sell virtually, as we mentioned earlier, and with all the partners that you have, is going to be critical. Being able to show those colors, being able to not only show the performance through what we've been talking about with the technologies, but also the colors. Why don't you share just a little bit more about some of those tools that you have on your website?

Brian King: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: And some of the ways that they [inaudible 00:19:11] with homeowners?

Brian King: I mean, the thing that we've noticed with contractors that works really well, even though we've talked a lot about just the shingle right now, the shingle is only part of the roofing system. So, we have lots of tools that help a contractor explain to a homeowner that there is underlayment, there's hip and ridge, there's starter strip, there's ventilation, they're all critical parts of roof performance. So, we talked a lot about the shingle on top, which is the first thing everybody thinks of, and they think of, again, all the performance characteristics around wind uplift, and nail blow through, and delamination, how long it's going to last, wind warranties, guarantees, things like that, and the aesthetic piece. But, it's really just part of a system. So, we've got something which we call Roof in a Backpack. It allows the contractor to actually put together a roof, on the kitchen table. Or, we've not got a virtual version of that, which is a build your roof tool, which is a little widget, that they can actually send to a homeowner, and they can do it on their computer. We've got two different ways. Obviously, the computer one is much more relevant today, but when you're able to do that in home selling presentation, to be able to actually step through with the homeowner, this is what underlayment looks like, and this is the difference between a synthetic underlayment like Rhino, Titanium, or Deck Defense, or Pro Armor that we make, or an old felt type product. There's a very easy demonstration you can do there as well, you can tear felt paper. It's pretty easy to tear.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Brian King: If you try to tear a synthetic underlayment, really difficult. It's things like that which take, obviously, what we talk through with the shingle, and Duration's the best shingle in the industry, but how do you then put it together as part of a system. Then, again, tailoring it to the contractor. If you want to do an electronic presentation, here's versions that work with iPads, and computers, and you can them visually, you can do them over Zoom. Or, if you want to have a physical conversation with them, when we hopefully get back to having physical conversations with folks, here's actual touch and feel types things, that you can actually use at the coffee table, when you're pitching to a homeowner.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think that's so perfect for the generations, too, because there's a lot of people who want to sit at that kitchen table and go through everything, but there's this whole new generation coming up, which probably has been accelerated now, who just would love to have a widget. Be able to look at the widgets, be able to [inaudible 00:21:27] in all the good stuff that's in the widget, obviously. We've had those on the Coffee Shop, sending contractors to get those widgets for their websites, and they really are cool. What a great tool for the contractors.

Brian King: It's two lines of code, normally, that they put onto their website, and then they get all the content which is available on OwensCorning.com. The best part about that is when things get changed, new products get added, colors get added, things like that, it automatically updates. Unlike if you wrote native code on your website, you have to go in and, "Oh my gosh, I've got to go in and recode that, I've got to find a new image," it's all available to them. There's a pick your shingle widget, there's a total protection roofing system, or seal defend breathe, which is what we talk about, there's a widget for that, there's a widget for color and style. We've got a visualizer widget as well, so if you want to use a visualization tool where you take pictures, and I know there's lots of those, but there's a visualization tool as well. We're always thinking about what the content is that we can take from our website that we create, and then how do we widgetize that, and give it to contractors to be able to use on their websites, or on, again, iPad demonstrations, or whatever tools they're using.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love the fact that it automatically updates.

Brian King: Oh yeah, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: How many websites are just once you do it, it's done, and then you leave. It's like, "Oh wait, that was three years ago. What have I done?"

Brian King: Right. That's what our contractors want, because what are they good at? They're good at selling roofs, putting on roofs. The whole website piece is like, if you can give me help there, that allows me, again, more time to be out actually talking to customers, and driving my business as opposed to messing around on my website.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, that is so true. That's excellent, those are amazing tools. You know what? Along that lines, too, I love stories, we're all about conversations on the Coffee Shop. What's the feedback you're getting from your contractors out in the field, around the SureNail, the technology, the performance of the Duration shingles? What's some feedback?

Brian King: The feedback that we get, generally speaking, when you talk to Owens Corning contractor network members about Owens Corning products, you get really positive feedback. Which sometimes makes finding the really useful feedback, which is when someone doesn't like what you're doing, it makes it a little difficult. But we talk to, obviously, lots of contractors around. What they tell us is they continue to push that we may sometimes think that everybody knows about Duration and SureNail, and the reality is that because homeowners only put a roof on, on average, 15, 17, 20 years, or they do it once in their lifetime on one of their homes, they don't necessarily know about the benefits, and how great a product Duration is. They keep reminding us to continue to push the Duration message into the market, to advertise Owens Corning in the Pink Panther. We haven't really talked about the Pink Panther, but the Panther allows contractors, as well, to have something which connects instantly with ... You'd be surprised the number of younger people who the Panther still resonates with them. Having the Pink Panther allows them, again, another way to get into the home, and to develop that emotional piece. They keep telling us to continue to support the brand, continue to push the great story that's around Duration, continue to help me talk about Owens Corning and the great products that we have in the marketplace. That's where we do outreach into local markets about Owens Corning and our products, and we help drive the message around why Duration is a great product. Then, that helps the contractors sell in the home. I mean, Owens Corning is the most recognized and trusted brand in the industry, and then Duration's a great period, so those two things going together really help our contractors. They keep pushing us to invest.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, our contractors are pretty smart.

Brian King: They're real smart.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love roofing. I work with one of your top contractors out there, too, Ken Kelly was one of our influencers. Yeah, I love hearing ... I can just say, from the other side, I'm hearing the exact same things. They love the brand. You know what? They love the colors. The color of the year, I hear a lot of really great things on that front, too.

Brian King: We hear feedback from them all the time. Ken Kelly's a great friend of ours, he sits on our Platinum Advisory Board, he's a Platinum contractor. What I really love about Ken is that Ken is straight up. He tells us, "This is really good. And this? You missed the mark." That feedback sometimes is more important than the "that was great, what you did there," that we actually need to improve. Again, we talked a little bit about working the with sales teams, and some of the great salespeople we have, but also working with our contractors, and making sure that we get the feedback from them around what it is that they want. Ultimately, my team's focus is to make sure that we're giving contractors the tools they need to be able to sell more roofs. That's, ultimately, what it comes down to.

Heidi Ellsworth: It is, it is. That's exactly what we try to do every day on the Coffee Shop. The whole idea is all of us making this industry even greater. I think throughout this time that we're in right now, and for those of you listening, it's April 17th, 2020, so we're right in the middle of ... Hopefully, not in the middle, hopefully past the middle.

Brian King: Hopefully it's on the past side.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hopefully. This pandemic, it's really gone to show just what a great industry we have with our manufacturers, and our roofing contractors. I have to tell you, Brian, we just are so happy to have you a part of the Coffee Shop, and really pushing this technology out there, to improve not just our industry, but the choices the homeowners are making. That's good for the planet, too, to make those good choices.

Brian King: Homeowners, obviously, with the Internet, which I don't think has gone away, it's going to be there for a while. Homeowners are becoming more educated, and their becoming definitely ... They ask questions of contractors, and when you talk to contractors, the engaged and informed homeowner is definitely something that, in the past, maybe it was a little bit more around, "You've got a great reputation, you do great work in the neighborhood. Tell me what color to put on my roof, and away we go." That still exists, of course. The contract is obviously the expert and the professional here, and more homeowners defer to that expertise, and that's why they take great efforts to make sure they choose the right contractor in the first place. But, you hear from contractors all the time that homeowners are becoming more educated, and so having that educated homeowner actually can make a much easier sale in the home because the right contractor can gauge who that customer is, what they're talking about. And then, they can tailor their presentation, and their value proposition to that homeowner, and it just makes the sale that much better.

Heidi Ellsworth: I agree. To have the kind of performance that we're talking about against the elements, with Oakridge and Duration, I think you're going to see more and more homeowners who are going to say, "That's what I want." They're a little weary of having a roof where they have to worry about it every year.

Brian King: To your point, they want to put a roof on, and they don't want to necessarily think about it until ever, would be the right answer. I want to make the right, smart decision right now, I want to make sure it's beautiful and it performs, and then I don't want to think about it again. That's really what we're trying to do.

Heidi Ellsworth: You're doing an amazing job. Thank you for sharing the stories, and sharing what's happening. I knew the moment, as I was listening to you, I could visualize this podcast right there.

Brian King: Awesome.

Heidi Ellsworth: I really want to say thank you for being here.

Brian King: Well thank you very much for the invitation, and thank you for everything that you do for roofers as well. Definitely Roofer's Coffee Shop is a big influencer within the industry, people come to you for advice, and we really appreciate working with you, and helping to raise the profile of the roofing industry. I mean, you hear Reid Ribble talk about it from a NRCA perspective, right? Make roofing an actual trade, and make it something that is as awesome an industry as everybody who works in it knows that it is. So, thank you for everything you do, as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you. We really believe in roofing respect, so thank you very much. Hey, stay safe, thank you so much for being here. I want to thank all of the listeners out there, for listening to this podcast. All of our podcasts are under our Read, Listen, Watch segment of the website. There is so much great information, just like today, where you can really learn about not only what the technologies and the products are, but how to sell them, and how to use technology. I encourage everyone to listen to all the podcasts, thank you so much for being here. Brian, one more time, thank you so much.

Brian King: Thanks for the invitation, Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth: Have a great day, everyone.