Residential Building Envelope Trends - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Randy Knox and Robert Ricci from Palisade. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast. 

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today.

Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and I'm road tripping around the US, actually to the East Coast and the West Coast, to visit with two amazing roofing salespeople. They're my friends, Randy Knox and Robert Ricci, who are with Palisade, which is a brand of IPG and does amazing, amazing products for the whole building, for the everything, everywhere in the house. They're here today to talk to us about what's happening. Randy, Robert, welcome.

Randy Knox: Thank you Heidi. How are you? I hope you had a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Me too. Happy New Year. 2023 is here.

Randy Knox: Yeah, one more down and hopefully many more to go.

Robert Ricci: Yeah, a lot more to come, Randy.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: A lot more. A lot more to come. As I said, you two are two of my favorite. You two are characters and we're going to have some fun here talking about house wrap and underlayment and all the great stuff. I would love first to have you on both introduce yourself. Let's start with Randy, if you could introduce yourself, what you do in the company, a little bit of your roofing history, that'd be great.

Randy Knox: Okay. Yes. I'm Randy Knox. I'm the Eastern Regional sales manager, so anything east of the Mississippi River is my coverage area. I'm responsible for all our building products, roof underlayment, house wraps, flashing tapes, and sealing tapes as well. Long history of building, my father was a framer. I grew up on the job sites. We did farming and framing and been on a many, many roofs. I think I toted my first bun of shingles on a roof when I was 11, 12 years old, a house that we were building for ourselves, so been in and around it. Started my sales career when I was 27 and started selling contractors and worked my way up into to this job I have today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. Randy, I've seen you for so many years in the industry, such a great history and just so knowledgeable. I'm really excited to have you here on the podcast today.

Randy Knox: Well, I'm glad to be here and like I said, I've done you for a long time. I'm glad we're getting to work together for a change.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Me, too. I love that. Yeah, all those times I was harassing you so now here you are.

Randy Knox: Never harassing. Never.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Never. Rob, please introduce yourself. Same thing, tell us about what you're doing and about your history in roofing.

Robert Ricci: Okay. Robert Richie, I'm the West Coast regional sales manager and I'm west of Mississippi. I used to have Louisiana, but Randy took it away from me so I missed the food and the music. That's an unforgiven thing. Like Randy, my family was in the building products. They started in the lumber business here on the West Coast, so right out of college I started and that was 30 years ago. I've been selling basically moisture protection products for the last 30 years. IPG brought me on a couple of years ago to help them launch the weather resistance systems that we're selling here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That's great. What was the name of your family business?

Robert Ricci: It was Ritchie and Cruz Lumber. It was in San Francisco and if anybody is a West Coast guy, all those Victorian homes that you see. We make Redwood Pattern stock, too, clad them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's so cool. That's so cool. I am a West Coaster, as you well know, out here in Oregon. Let's hear about, you both are talking about Palisade and IPG. Randy, maybe you can start us out with, first of all, who is IPG and talking about the Palisade brand and the history overall.

Randy Knox: IPG actually stands for Intertape Polymer Group. Up until June of this past year, we were a publicly traded company and we had an equity firm come in and purchase our company. So far so good on that. It's been really, really exciting to see the direction that they want us to go in, got our ways to get to where they want us to be but I think it's going to be a great opportunity and look forward to the challenges and the growth opportunities we're going to have over the next couple of years.

Palisade itself has been around for about 15 years as a roof under layman. It was one of the first ones designed. Palisade was bought by IPG two, two and a half years ago, and like Rob said earlier, they hired us to take that brand name and build it into a bigger portfolio of products. It is one of the few patented products in the roofing industry. It is a premium product and is designed to be used on eight and 12 pitches and above because of the surface that it has. It has a patented walk surface. One of the best in the industry, if not the best. We stand behind that by letting you have a couple of roles to try just to make sure that we're telling you. It's not going to be as cheap as some of the entry level products, but when you're looking for performance and you're looking for the things that differentiates you from other roofers and give your crew something better to work on, that's what Palisade is out there.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is great. Palisade is always adding products, right?

Randy Knox: Oh, yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Above and beyond the roof underlayments.

Randy Knox: Correct.

Robert Ricci: It's not just limited to the roof, we have wall systems now too, so house wraps, window flashings, and a whole host of construction tapes to go with it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's excellent, that's excellent. I have known that brand for years, Randy. I remember the same thing.

Rob, what are you seeing? Both of you are so entwined within the exterior home improvement market, what are you seeing trend-wise for exteriors?

Robert Ricci: My joke is, as I mentioned earlier, I've been in the industry for 30 years. 20 years ago nothing changed. Now, it changes so fast I can't keep up. What's really driving it is we're making homes and structures more energy efficient, and there's a reason for that because we want to save the environment, control the cost of what it takes to heat and cool the structure, but by doing that we change the practices and the products that we had used in the past. I talk about the law of unintended consequences. We build our building so tight now there's no energy that escapes to dry it out. If a building gets wet roof-wise, wall-wise, it stays wet and rots so we have to be very conscious of the products we use and how they're installed to make sure we don't have any catastrophic failures.

When it comes to water intrusion, the products aren't expensive. The devil's in the details, how they're installed and if they're stalled incorrectly, it could be a very expensive fix, in litigation, structure, something falling down even. You may have remembered the Berkeley balcony that fell with the college kids jumping up and down, that was bad detailing with peel and stick flashing. We have to be very conscious of the products we use, how they're installed, and make sure they're done correctly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. You're hearing that from contractors who are actually starting to talk more about details, about the importance of tape, the importance of underlayments, of sealants, cocking. All that kind of stuff, you're starting to really hear the contractors actually talk to homeowners more about that it seems like.

Randy Knox: The homeowners are more educated today cause of the internet and podcasts like this. They're requesting a lot of things. They've done their research and understand more today about what goes into the home than they did five, 10 years ago because the availability of information. In the past, we always had to rely on the contractor person telling us what we needed and what they were using and things like that. Pretty much those days are gone, if you're having a custom-built home, you know what you want in that house. You know what faucets, what windows, what doors you want.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And it's going to be premium.

Randy Knox: Mm-hmm.

Robert Ricci: And I'll include, not even custom but remodeling, and to the point, even production homes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Rob, I think it's really interesting. You basically are talking about moisture control and for so long, people didn't realize how important the exterior the house was for that moisture control. What you're seeing there is something that has really grown within the last couple of years.

Robert Ricci: Very much so, and it's always changing. As I mentioned before, it was driven by the energy savings, but also there's regional differences now. How you build in Florida is going to look totally different than how you build in a Pacific Northwest, so there isn't a one size fits all solution. You have to be on top of your game to know what products to use and where.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: As a contractor, you really need to be up on that and being able to explain it correctly to homeowners who are going to have seen these problems and want to know that they're getting the right products.

Robert Ricci: Correct.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Okay. Randy, what are you seeing, speaking of this, with roofing contractors expanding into full residential exterior. We've had a lot of contractors, through COVID and everything else, who were only doing roofing but then have expanded to diversify to windows, siding, doors, all of that. What are you seeing?

Randy Knox: It makes really good sense to do that if you're a roofing contractor. Used to, it really didn't matter what states you were in, roofing contractors really weren't had to be licensed or anything like that. Now with all of them having to get roofing license, which is only one step away from a general contractor's license in a lot of states, so now they're going and getting those licenses as well. Because they're rarity on the outside of the house fixing the roof, what about the soffit, fascia, the rotten windows could be in there, the doors.

It makes perfect sense. It's easier for a roofing contractor to go to siding window guy than it is for a siding and window guy to being a roofing contractor. I feel roofing contractors get overlooked at how difficult their job really is because they're really the ones controlling the moisture getting in the house. If you use a good, premium underlayment, sometimes they can help you avoid some problems down the road because people are walking on cheap underlayment and stretching them at the nail heads and causing places for them to leak. These premium products won't do that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Great.

Robert Ricci: Can I jump in, Randy? I just want to add to what you said about roofing contractors being able to segue into the wall. I truly believe that roofing contractors have a better understanding of how water intrusion problems happen and how they can be corrected. What I've noticed, especially with the trend to self adhered membranes on the wall, roofing contractors have a better understanding and they're a better craftsmen. They do a better job than I've seen with a typical framer. They understand the membrane portion of the installation more so than others, so it seems to be an easy segue for them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It really starts to differentiate their business, too, when they can come out there not only in the moment of the sale, whether they need a roof or siding or whatever, but then, "Oh well, we did your roof this year, how about your siding next year?" What are you all seeing? Maybe start with Randy, what are you seeing with contractors being able to really extend that value of their customer over a lifetime?

Randy Knox: Yeah, that's kind of what you want to do. At one time when I was thinking about becoming a contractor, I wanted to call my business Total Home Solutions. The reason I wanted to do that is because I did, I wanted to be the guy who one call, you got your grass cuts, you got your siding put on, you got your roof put on. You just be a concierge service for homeowners.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Randy Knox: I always thought that'd be a great way to go. I do own a patent on that name.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay, perfect. There's a lot of people out there who are looking for that, especially ongoing residential maintenance, which is important. I think that's where a lot of your products, exactly. I know you do tons of new construction and obviously in remodeling, but also there's year-to-year maintenance. Rob, what are you seeing with key performance qualities for those exterior products to meet that demand?

Robert Ricci: We're going to be that membrane between the exterior and you're sheathing. Unless you're tearing off a problem, we don't really come into play. The products that we do offer are premium products, as Randy mentioned. Installed correctly, they'll perform as required and we will warranty behind it. It's something that you can go with confidence when you're working with whoever your end user, be it the homeowner, the property manager and such.

Randy Knox: I call them hidden products, that's what we sell. It's the stuff people say, "What do you sell on the house?" I say, "Well, you never will see my products unless you're there early in the construction phase." They're there for a protective secondary barrier against failure of the primary, but when you cleaning your products, especially siding, you have to be careful. Some surfactant cleaners don't do well with house wrap. Ours, there's no problem. There's a couple big names out there that if any of the surfactant, the cleaner got onto the, and it can get behind siding and hit those, it just eats them up. You have to know what you're cleaning and how you're going to clean it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, wow. Okay.

As you're looking at some of the products that Palisade is offering to help contractors expand into exteriors, and I know, sorry Rob, put you out there on maintenance. It's really not maintenance as in just one little thing, but what I'm talking about too is that bigger picture of just a portion of the roof or the transition between the wall and the roof where you really have to get into those, along with obviously new construction where you're at. What are some of the areas that you are really looking at performance-wise? Randy started talking about this at the beginning with the walkability, but also the breathability of the house wrap. Talk about some of those things that people should be thinking about.

Robert Ricci: Okay. As I mentioned earlier, there isn't a one size fits all solution. We have a range of products for different environments, different performance requirements, and different price points. For instance, we have an acrylic flashing that you can install in below zero temperatures, great for New England, the Pacific Northwest. Probably wouldn't need it in Florida, but we do have a product that will work in Florida that's definitely designed for higher temperatures. We can tailor our product mix to fit what your ultimate requirements are, be it performance and/or price.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Very cool. Palisades, it's been about two years with IPG. What has been the excitement? I've been watching it and I've been seeing all the excitement there, but Randy, what are you seeing with the growth of these types of performance products and really the growth of IPG, Palisade, TUCK, all of the brands that are going along with that over the last couple of years?

Randy Knox: It's kind of amazing because we launch a product, we bring in inventory to cover that need, and then we go out and sell it. Our guys are going, "Oh, we need to order some more, don't we?" Yeah. It's been real fun. It's been fun. With supply chain challenges that we've had, that has put a little wrinkle into it a little bit, but this is what I like to do. I like to brand build. It's been by forte and got a good brand. We've got a great product. We've got good people behind us. We're doing and succeeding in a market that's saturated and we continue to grow every year. That's our success right there is positive sales growth, even in the economy that we're in right now where some people are having a downturn. We're not. We're we're still growing. The acceptance of our products, the quality of our products for the pricing is people are making a switch.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Making all the difference, now.

Randy Knox: Then you get to deal with good people like Rob.

Robert Ricci: Okay, the 20 bucks is in the mail.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There you go. I love it.

Robert Ricci: For the compliment.

I was going to add, too, I have a contractor out here who dominates a southwestern state and the product, and he's had in the past tried to use a cheaper product. His crews come back to him and say, "No, we like working with Palisade. We feel safer on the roof." Ultimately, the owner of the firm goes, "Yeah, I don't have any problems with it from claims so I'm sticking with it." Because of that, I had another contractor that's in a different segment call me up going, "Hey, I see your stuff all over the place. How do I get it?" That's an easy sell.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Love it. That's an easy sell. You know what, I think we've been talking about homeowners and really their research and what they're doing, but we haven't talked about the crews, and I love, Rob, that you brought that up because that's, I wouldn't say just as important, but yeah, it's just as important that the roofing companies are providing products for their crews that are safe and that help them be more productive. Obviously you're seeing that from that contractor. Is that a trend that you're seeing across the board?

Robert Ricci: Yes, it's expanding. In the markets were my products readily available, people used it, walked on it. It speaks for itself and it grows from there.

Randy Knox: Yeah. We don't mind. One of the ways we grow our business is we'll give a contractor something to try. We don't ask him to buy it, we'll send it to them and we'll send them two rolls. Let them try it. If they don't like it, they ain't never got to buy it again but so far, we ain't had nobody tell us no.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's kind of nice. I like that. Great marketing. Very good. For all those contractors who are listening to this out there who want to get those free roles, those two free roles, where can they buy it? How do they get in touch with you? How do they get started?

Randy Knox: I would say the easiest way right now is contact us at palisadebuild.com. That's palisadebuild.com. Put Rob Richie or Randy Knox in there as somebody you need to get in touch with. Give us the information, we'll be glad to get back with you, and then we'll order the roles for you to try. If we have a local distributor, we'll send you in there to pick them up. If we don't, then we'll just send them directly to you. Now, we do sell only through distribution. We don't sell direct so we would work with whoever. We're set up to sell ABC, SRS, Beacon, Gulf Eagle.

Robert Ricci: All big nationals, and then-

Randy Knox: Yeah.

Robert Ricci: ... the strong regional guys.

Randy Knox: Yeah, all the big boys and all the regional guys. We're in with everybody as far as having a [inaudible 00:19:43].

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great. That is so cool. I can tell you everybody, if you didn't catch that, you can get all the information about Palisade on Roofer's Coffee Shop in the Roofer's Coffee Shop directory for Palisade or IPG. All of that, those contact information, how to get ahold of them, more information, research that you can read up on, everything they've done with their patents, it's all in there. Really, really great information.

Randy and Rob, just real quick, and I'm going to start with you Rob, what's the forecast for 2023? How are we looking on getting these kinds of products out there and contractors in the exterior market?

Robert Ricci: Products are readily available. As Randy alluded to, the supplying chain challenges seem to be behind us. I'd never want to relive. I thought I'd seen everything. I have never seen where you can't get something and that was a really strange time in my world. Our products are readily available. What I see coming up is new production home construction is going to slow down, so people are going to pivot. You're going to be going to more remodeling, focus on customs. Multi-family's something you should look at is that has a different source of financing so that they're not impacted as much as by mortgages that we have to pay for our home. We're just going to pivot a little bit, but I think I'm cautiously optimistic we're going to have a good year coming up.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That's great.

Robert Ricci: Oh, by the way, and because we have quality products at the right price point, some of our competitors may feel the pain.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There you go. Randy, how about you?

Randy Knox: Like I said, we do have coming up in January, we'll be at the International Builders Show if anybody's coming out for that. Our booth number there is Booth C6448. We'll actually have a mock-up of a house in there. It'll have all of our IPG products, whether it's in mine and Rob's world, or if it's in the HVAC part of our business that we have or our electrical tape part of our business. It'll all be there. That's one thing, and then we'll be at the IRE in Dallas. Don't have that booth number right in front of me, but I know that we'll be posted on Roofer's Coffee Shop here shortly.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, yeah.

Randy Knox: Rob's got two or three shows that we're doing in Vegas this year. We have a Modular Builders show coming up that we'll be doing in March as well, so a lot of ways that you'll be seeing us out this year. FRSA in Florida, Western Roofing in Milcon. I know we'll be at those.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Excellent. We'll be there too, so we'll see you all there.

Randy Knox: That's where we always see you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We'll have you on our sound stage.

Randy Knox: We're always see you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You two will be back, yes. Great. We're seeing the same thing. It's going to be a great year in 2023. Thank you for bringing such quality products and expertise and consulting and helping other contractors, Rob and Randy. You're so appreciated for everything you do for the industry.

Randy Knox: Thank you very much. You also said the key word there, consulting.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes.

Randy Knox: If there's products that a contractor needs that we don't have in our arsenal that we can talk to them about, help them develop, that's what we're here for. We're about researching and developing the next new thing if we can find the right contractors to work with.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. And you're there.

Robert Ricci: To reinforce Randy's point, we're not trying to sell something that's not appropriate. If we don't have the right answer, we know where to go. We have a tech department and/or we can make a recommendation.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Robert Ricci: Swing by our booth. You'll recognize Randy and I because I'm the better looking one.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There you go.

Randy Knox: I was being nice to you, Rob, earlier.

Robert Ricci: I had the chance to grab it and go.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That would be at IRE, right?

Randy Knox: Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You'll both be together. Okay, perfect. We'll see you both in Dallas and we'll see all of you again on the next Roofing Road Trip. Thank you so much for being here today. Remember, you can get all the information you're looking for on Palisade and IPG in the directory along with some great articles, videos, so much information, along with their sister company and brand, TUCK, out of Canada. Please check it out. Check out all of our podcasts under the read, listen, watch navigation under Roofing Road Trips or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe. Set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. And we'll see you on the next Roofing Road Trips.

Make sure to subscribe to our channel and leave a review. Thanks for listening. This has been Roofing Road Trips with Heidi from the rooferscoffeeshop.com