People Make Roofing - Reid Ribble - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Reid Ribble, roofing industry expert. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to People Make Roofing, a call to action led by McCormack Partners and Roofers Coffee Shop. We're tackling the industry's biggest challenges from outdated misconceptions to the widening skills gap. Our mission? To show the next generation the true potential of roofing, including the diverse opportunities, endless growth possibilities and a chance to make a lasting impact. Join us as we share unfiltered stories from industry professionals across North America, inspiring and guiding the future of roofing. This is People Make Roofing.

Luke McCormack: Hello, this is People Make Roofing. I am Luke McCormack, CEO of Roofing Talent America.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I am Heidi Ellsworth, president of Roofers Coffee Shop. So excited to be on People Make Roofing. This podcast series really brings out the best and I have to tell you, I'm so excited about our guest today because he has changed the industry over the last decades and we are so happy to have him share his insights. So Reid Ribble, we are so excited to have you on here. Can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your history in roofing?

Reid Ribble: Sure. My name is Reid Ribble and back in, I'm going to age myself a little bit, but back in 1975, I got involved in the roofing industry working in my father's very small roofing company. I then ultimately became president of that company in 1980 and we switched from doing just residential to almost doing only commercial roofing. And for the next 35 years we continue to grow and expand that back into residential roofing as well, but sheet metal, commercial insulation and distribution.

And so I've got about 35 or 40 years of actually running my own business in the roofing industry. And then from 2017 to 2022, I was the CEO of the National Roofing Contractors Association. So it's a long career in the roofing industry and it's good to be with both of you.

Luke McCormack: Reid, it's our pleasure to have you, so thank you so much. This is a special episode for me because when I initially joined the American roofing industry, you were one of the first people that gave me their time to explain to me the politics of the industry, the best way for me to navigate it as a recruiter. And that wasn't too long ago, Reid, but it seems like a lifetime now. So I'm very grateful for what you've done for the industry as well as for me personally. And for this interview, Reid, we're going to do something a bit different.

So usually, Heidi and I, we've got our usual People Make Roofing question list, but I think if you look at the state of the industry, the growth plans, the problems that a lot of companies are facing now, it's no longer as much about we're in projects or getting margins. It's the people problem. It's how do we recruit, how do we retain the best people? And from your successful career in roofing, as well as in politics, Reid, I'm sure there's so much that we can all learn from you on recruitment, retention and leadership from within this industry. So Heidi and I are very grateful to have you as part of it and looking forward to learning a thing or two.

Reid Ribble: Oh, well, let's get at it then. Let's talk about all those things and I'm anxious to have the discussion.

Luke McCormack: Fantastic. Well, Heidi, would you like to take us away?

Heidi J Ellsworth: I would love that. So okay, Reid, you know, having been involved, starting out as a small business and then growing to a very large business in this industry, that 80% are small roofing companies, 20%, great big. How do you see the smaller companies really being able to compete efficiently and effectively with the larger companies when it comes to recruitment of talent and skilled talent?

Reid Ribble: Yeah, well, I think there's a misnomer that everybody wants to work for a big company and there's a certain anonymity to it and that appeals to some people, but then there's also a difference that a small company brings to it. You become a bigger part of the decision making process. You feel more like you're part of a team rather than just an employee. You get to have say on what your future might look like. And quite frankly, smaller companies need to grow their employees faster. And I don't mean by number, but I mean personal growth that those employees have because they're a bigger piece of a smaller pie, which makes them more valued. And so there's a lot of advantages of working for smaller companies over larger companies. I'm sure electric companies have some advantages for sure, but that smaller company has a more direct impact on their community, has a more direct impact on the employee's life than sometimes a large company can bring.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I have to say my future son-in-law is actually in plumbing and he is an apprentice and he is right now working for a small company that has done exactly what you said, Reid, is giving him all kinds of opportunity. He's fast tracking to journeymen to be able to take the test, and so I like that thought. And it seems to me that roofing companies need to really think about talking about that, right? Talking about that when they're recruiting.

Reid Ribble: Yeah, I think they do need to talk about it and they need to talk about where their company's going and what their plans are and I think we also have to redefine what small looks like in today's modern world of private equity purchases. You can have a very large company that's been rolled up into a private equity regime. However, they still operate in that local entrepreneurial, smaller business attitude. And so I wouldn't necessarily rule out working for a company that's much larger if they're structured correctly, and that's where employers that are looking for talent need to tell their story in a better way so that they can appeal to a broader number of people.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, I completely agree, Reid. In my career, I worked in a massive organization where I could see how all the cogs of the machine worked. I could understand the management structures and how a business is made, but when I worked in a smaller business, I was able to see the daily grit that it takes every day to take a business to the next level. And when roofing companies approach me to help them attract top talent, the smaller companies is my job to sell in to candidates in the market to speak about the culture, about the development, where you're truly part of the team, you're not just a number and we've done a pretty good job at selling smaller companies to guys that have came from large companies.

The problem that I see with the smaller roofing business owner is sometimes the mindset, the mindset that they couldn't hire someone from one of these larger companies. How do you find that the mindset plays a piece in the business owner in terms of the type of staff that he wants to attract? Because they may actually hire someone who knows more than them and can do more than them, and some people think that's a threat.

Reid Ribble: Oh, for sure and I always tell people that the business owner should be the dumbest guy in the room. And what I mean by that, it's just a cliche way of saying you want to hire the smartest people you can and should never be threatened by it because intelligent people make your job and life easier and better, not less secure, particularly if you're the owner of the company and so you ought to be seeking to hire the very best talent. But I will tell you that I don't always think that the very best talent comes from with inside the roofing industry.

Some of my best hires were outside the industry, where they came in with a fresh set of eyes and a different culture that they brought with them, but also they were more willing to learn roofing the way I wanted it done as opposed to coming in with a preconceived impression, here's how roofing done and they try to force-feed it into this smaller company because they now know best or they think they do. But that might not fit how you as a business owner want to go to market or wanted to sell roofing.

And so I can tell you the biggest mistakes that I made in hiring people were often hiring too quickly and firing too slowly. I think that that was a mistake that I made, but also hiring people for what they knew rather than hiring people for who they were. And I think you need to hire people for who they are and then equip them with what they need to know.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I think so too. And Luca's going to be right back, I think, so we'll just keep talking. And Reid, like you said, it's about keeping the good people and that's always a challenge. I was able to spend some great time with John Goodman lately who I know, talk about good people and he talks so highly about the time he spent in your company. But what is some of your suggestions? Right now, we have people who are offering a dollar more an hour and people are leaving and jumping companies. What is some of your thoughts on really helping to keep that retention of your top talent?

Reid Ribble: Yeah. So this is an interesting challenge for business owners today because Zoomers and the generation just older than them, so let's say the nineteen-year-old new worker up to maybe that forty-year-old person, that twenty-year generation there, those people are much less loyal to businesses and more loyal to what they want out of life. And so they will leave for higher pay and you will see that they'll jump from company to company to company for any little additional benefit often.

And so what you have to do, rather than trying to match pay and benefits, you have to make your place of employment something more desirable to exist in. How do we make it easier for this person to have family time? How do we make it easier for this person if they have children, to spend time with them? How do we make their vacations and rest periods more meaningful?

And I think you start to think in terms of the overall humanity of being an employer. Those younger people are looking for things that go beyond just the attachment or loyalty to a company and longevity, which as a boomer, that's what we really admired. And today they're living a more purposeful life that is engaged in volunteer work, outside of work, being involved in their church or social clubs and especially spending free time alone. So they don't want to be on call 24/7 like my generation did. If you can build this system inside your company that gives them those things, they're less likely to jump for that dollar-an-hour benefit.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, I think that's such a good point, Reid. We analyzed why we place candidates, and over the past 10 years we've moved someone from company A to company two in roofing. And when I analyzed in the granular detail, why can we move someone from one company to the other, you know why? Because 80% of candidates don't take your calls. From the 20% that do, the specific reasons as to why they take your calls and why they're willing to move and those are the exact same reasons as why someone will leave a roofing company. And what really struck me was that less than 10% of the reasons for moving was a financial reason. It was all a more emotional reason to do with the management, with the development, to do with the stability and the flexibility with work-life balance as well.

And I think that, like you said, private equity is all over the industry. There's a lot of growth, supply and demand, there's more projects than there is people to do it. And even for the smaller company owners, they may think that they're not competitive because they can't pay the higher base, but I've learned that for people, if they're going to move company, everyone that they spend the majority of their life with, they've got stability here, they know it all, an extra 10 grand isn't going to be enough for someone to uproot their life and move elsewhere. So I completely agree with what you're saying, and from what I've seen globally in the roofing industry, the companies that do focus on the well-being of their employees and more than just money, they seem to retain staff better and they seem to grow quicker than the rest. So I think that's a great point there.

Reid Ribble: Yeah, and there's another adage, people don't leave businesses, they leave bosses. And so how do you position yourself to be the best boss you can possibly be so that employees want to be with you and your company and buy into the vision that you have not just for your own future? Because a lot of times small business owners are looking at their own future, but as they refocus themselves and look at the future of their employees instead, what they will find is that they're much more profitable over time.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah, that is so true. You know what? Because I think what you just said about bosses, right? They leave bosses, really goes to leadership and it's something I'm constantly questioning myself on, right? Am I doing the right things for our company, the right leadership? I would love to know some of maybe the lessons you've had or maybe nuggets that you can share with us, Reid, on your experiences leading a roofing company, leading the NRC and also being a US congressman. What are some of your thoughts on the importance of leadership and what people should be thinking about?

Reid Ribble: Well, I'd say probably the biggest lesson that I learned is that as the senior person in an organization, I do not have to have all the answers. And in fact, leaders who believe that they have all the answers often become very overpowering. They want everything done their way and they have a tendency to lord it over and oversee and try to overcompensate and try to step in and do somebody else's work. In essence, they are over managing people. In reality, you need to set your employers free. You need to train and equip them so that they know what they're doing, and this is something for new hires, you have to equip them and train them quickly. And so that's why I was so hot on getting NRCA's track program up and running because it's a linchpin to retention. The more people know, the more they want to execute what they know.

But if you are constantly telling them how to do something and telling them to do it your way, they are going to be less contented. They don't want to be over or micromanaged. Most employees want to learn and grow and do good work because that makes them feel valued and it makes them feel good about their work. And so the biggest mistake that I've made early on is trying to dictate every little bit of minutiae in the company. And some people and employees said, well, if you want to do my job, just do it and I'll leave and so that hurts retention. So you need to train, equip and empower and if you do those things, people will stay with you.

Luke McCormack: So Reid, on the roofing industry, within particularly roofing contracting, you're seeing companies double, triple, quadruple in size and you're seeing other companies stay stagnant and not get to the next level. Given 2025, the elections have passed, there's a bit more stability in the market, what do you think is the one piece of advice that you would give to a roofing business owner that wants to expand their business, grow their teams in 2025, with that delegating, diversifying, green fielding? What's the one piece of advice you would give to roofing business owners looking to scale their business into 2025 and beyond?

Reid Ribble: Yeah, so first of all, I'm going to key in on a word you just used, diversification. That became this big happy buzzword and now companies, in my view, are trying to do too much. There's an old saying, and my dad used to say it all the time, do what you do best and forget the rest, because the rest become the distraction that's taken you away from doing your very best work and something that you're really good at. And so if you really want to grow your business, if you're focused on what you're really good at, you can continue to grow that market. And I would also say this to the smaller guys who are trying to get to that next level, whatever it is, maybe they're doing three million and they're thinking, man, if I could just do four million a year or five million a year, but to do that, to make that next step, they often have to hire additional help, but they don't feel they can afford it.

And it's been my experience that every time that I was fearful that I couldn't afford a new hire was the very moment in time I needed the new hire. And so it's because you're now trying to do too much and you're trying to control too much and trying to hold onto too much, and you need to bring additional staff in to help you do that. Add that additional salesperson, add that additional project manager, add that foreman, whatever it is that you need. And what you'll discover is that you become more profitable faster, and you can accelerate that growth and there's a multiplication factor that occurs as you add that add to your team.

Luke McCormack: And Reid, for roofing business owners out there that they've only ever recruited through their own personal network, who they know, but they're busy roofing, working on their business, growing it, how do roofing businesses get new project managers, estimators, service managers? How do they go about it?

Reid Ribble: Yeah. Well, the typical smaller company goes about the way you just described. They put the word out there and put some feelers out there, because you're describing somebody in that middle tier of management, maybe even higher management and so they have a tendency to hold that a bit closer to their vest. And in almost every case, they ought to be looking for outside help to find and recruit that person because that person sometimes is sitting in the church pew right next to you, other times they're 100 or 150 miles away. And so the narrower the search is the more you are restricting your availability to better talent. And so if you're really wanting to find that talented person, sometimes going outside and hiring help is your best avenue forward because you'll have a larger pool of workers to draw from.

Luke McCormack: Obviously, completely agree. And when you were growing the rebel group, did you use external recruitment companies and headhunters to get your second tier management, Reid?

Reid Ribble: Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, and it all depended on who it was that I was looking for. And so we use a variety of tools to find people and having quote-unquote, I don't really like the word headhunter, but having outside professional help to find those people, I always found it as a value add and then other times I actually found somebody on my own.

Sometimes God just did something for me and dropped the person in my lap, and I was willing to accept that. You mentioned John Goodman, Heidi, who worked for me for almost my entire career and then when I went to NRCA, he came there. And the reality is sometimes you find good people through different channels and then it's a matter of hiring the right person and then setting them off to do their thing.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah, he's great. What a great-

Reid Ribble: And by the way, his wife Bessie worked for me in the roofing company and then she came to me when I went to Congress.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. I love what you're saying about they could be sitting right next to you or just being open to looking for that because we made a decision in the coffee shops to not be against hiring family, to have John Goodman and Betsy working with you. We have a lot of that, a lot of family here. And I think there's a lot of roofing contractors out there that do have family working for them, but they're also looking within their community and some of them are just starting. So as they're doing that, I'd love for you to expand a little bit more on that, Reid, on really being open to finding people who have no roofing experience.

Reid Ribble: Yeah. Well, I think you have to look today at what's going on in the industry because Luke, you mentioned earlier just the sheer number of dollars that are being put into the roofing industry now through private equity firms trying to buy up companies. But I want you to know they're not buying companies, they're buying talent. This is all about acquiring people. It's not about acquiring businesses, and so that's what they're looking at. Foremost in the front of everything, they're looking for companies that have good people and those are the companies they wish to acquire. And interestingly enough, the companies that have good people are the ones that are most profitable, which again draws the view of private equity.

And so for me, everything you do and the potential growth that you have and even the opportunity to sell your company down the road hinges on how good your people are, not how good you are. And as a business owner, you have to set aside your ego in a thousand different ways to expand your business and expand your horizons. There are people everywhere, and oftentimes people are looking for that help in the wrong places. And so I think if you're looking for that 20-year-old young person who's never worked before or you're trying to recruit that younger worker, you ought to be going into the high school, not talking to the shop people or the guidance counselors, but talking to the vice principal who's in charge of the kids who don't want to be in school.

And that may be your best possible hope for finding that future foreman, might be right there and just frustrated with sitting in a classroom because this young person wants to be out working with their hands and you have to open your eyes and your mind to all the opportunities out there. And then when you're looking for key leaders, you start to look, you expand how far out you're willing to go to bring that.

Luke McCormack: That's amazing. And just to finish up Reid, so with private equity all over the industry, it's important, in order for you to compete with these businesses, you need to recruit the right people, delegate, not try and do it all yourself. Also, because of this, you need to do as much as you can to retain your people. For business owners that are thinking, I've been doing this for a long time, getting a payday down the line would be amazing. Based on your experience, what is the main problem with roofing business owners that want to sell but can't? From what I've seen, it's second tier management, there's processes and systems, but for these roofing business owners that do want to have themselves in a position where they can entertain a sale, what is the main things that they don't do that they should do, Reid?

Reid Ribble: You mean to draw private equity, money, interest into their company? What should they be doing? The number one thing they should be doing is improving their bottom line. They sometimes think, well, I've got to be bigger, I need to be doing $30 million rather than the 15 million I'm doing and that's not true. They need to be better on the bottom line, and so private equity is looking for the highest performers to buy. And if you're netting three, four, 5% net profit, you may get private equity to buy you, but they're only going to give you very small multiples because they have to invest too much money into it and private equity is not necessarily looking for process. They've got their own process and they're going to embed that process into this company. So they're looking for a company that's built on performance.

Do you have tons of warranty claims? Is there a lot of liability sitting out there? And are you able to generate a profit in the marketplace that you're in? And if you're doing that, then private equity money is going to come to you automatically and believe me, they'll find you. There's so much private equity money. I don't know if I know a single roofing contractor who hasn't been called multiple times from private equity people asking if they would be interested in possibly being part of a bigger organization. And boy, there are pros and cons to that and I want to encourage people to slow down and look at all their options before they just jump into the private equity pool. There's a bunch of different ways that that's done, and some of them are good and some of them are not.

Luke McCormack: Yeah. Yeah, I think the underlying thing with private equity, Reid, is that these guys coming in have done these deals a million times in their sleep, whereas for the roofing business owner, it'll probably be the only time they ever do it and they do need to take their time. They do need to shop around and realize that they are the golden goose, the stoning buyers, but there's not enough sellers that have got the people, the profitability and the performance, like you say. It's centrist in what you say about process because I thought that they would want companies that have got the right process, but really if you've got the right people, you're making the right profit and you've got the right performance, then these other companies can come in and professionalize your process and allow your business to flourish even further.

Reid Ribble: Yeah, well, they can streamline certain aspects of it. They can take over the accounts payable, they can take over payroll, they can take over the insurance purchasing and they can provide better healthcare and things like that because they're now organizing for 1,000 employees rather than 10 or 20. And so there certainly are some benefits there, and private equity has provided an escape hatch for that 65-year-old long-term business owner who maybe doesn't have any family that wants to take the company over. They now have a pathway out.

And so a lot of this was all proven by the Tech of America experience where they actually created a value system for companies that wanted to roll up together and operate differently. But there are some pitfalls there, and you can lose some people along the way who don't want to be part of a bigger organization or maybe wanted to buy the company from the owner themselves when they were able to. So it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but there are some benefits, but there certainly are a lot of benefits to the 50,000 roofing companies out there that are not part of private equity to grow their own company, to establish their own livelihood, to send their kids to the colleges because they can afford it, that they want their children to go to. And so I think we can overstate, it's all about the escape hatch, it's not. It's about building something that's sustainable for the future, for tomorrow and for your workers and then you'll be successful.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Reid, I want to finish up on that because there is one question that's just in my head and that is business owners, whether they're roofing contractors or media groups or whoever they are, to me right now, it feels so important that as you are recruiting and hiring and looking for people to come in, looking at people who might be interested down the road in actually purchasing or stepping into that. So young people, because I'm just getting, talking to a lot of young people out there, there's a huge entrepreneurship feel, especially in this Gen Z. They want their own businesses, they want to do things, but they want someone to mentor them. And so it seems like during that recruiting process, and I just have to say I'm looking at it, because how does that work? What are you seeing out there just on that final of people really keeping an eye out thinking succession when they're hiring?

Reid Ribble: Well, the first observation is that far too few roofing contractor owners even think about succession. They're so embedded deep in the fact that I got to get this crew out to this job, or I've got to get this bid finished, that they don't feel like they've got time to think about what the future looks like in succession. And I've seen a bunch of different models and some are really, really good. I mean, I've got business owner friends of mine who never sold the company, but they went and hired that Gen Z person to run it for them. They paid them handsomely, but they're now playing golf every day, taking some of the profits of the company out rather than taking a multiple of eight or nine all in one time. And they have this sustainable value proposition through their retirement where they're getting paid, but they're not working.

And so there are all kinds of ways to transition out of a business if you're thoughtful about it, and most importantly, strategic. But that needs to start when you're 45 years old, not when you're 65 years old or 70 years old. And Luke, to your point before, you have a lot of dollars chasing a few companies and so it's enticing because you think these multiples are so great and let's just get out and I think you have to be careful with that. There may be other ways of doing it that still allow you the freedom that you want, the benefits of all your years of effort and time while helping people grow right in your own community. And so there's pros and cons to it, and I would just encourage business owners to start succession planning when they're young, not when they're in an emergency or they just want to get out.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, that's great, Reid. So just to recap then, it's about investing in your people, making sure they've got the tools that they need to do their job, that they're being empowered, that things have been delegated to them. Don't try and do everything, be a specialist, focus in the one area. If private equity comes in, be patient. Don't just jump at it. Think about succession planning, think about exit planning. Make sure that you are not too involved in the business that it can't flourish without you.

On private equity, to finish up, private equity came into other industries, rolled it up, moved on, they're now [inaudible 00:32:09] roofing. How long will they be here for and what does it actually mean for the future? Are we going [inaudible 00:32:16] 50% of the market rolled up at all these massive companies and the other 50%, small companies that can't compete? I mean, the way I'm looking at it is private equity's coming in, buying up all these companies, selling it to another private equity who'll do the same. So I mean, do you think 50% of the industry could all be private equity roll-ups? I'm really interested to hear, 10 years from now, are private equity still trying to buy roofing? Is the job being done? Is the market no longer competitive? Are margins lower? What do you think this means for the future of our industry?

Reid Ribble: Well, I do know this, that every economy goes through cycles. The growth and recessions that occur, all that will take is one good recession and all of a sudden private equity is going to be rethinking their tactics and their strategy. And the fact of the matter is, the way you just described it is pretty accurate in that they might roll up and make a $100 million company hoping to sell it to somebody who wants to take it to 300 million, who then hopes to sell it to somebody who wants to take it to 500 million and they sell it over and over again. The problem with that short-term thinking is that they never really build any quality systems in place because everything is just about the bottom line and profitability to set it up for the next sale.

The smaller company that you think could be endangered by that process is actually empowered and enriched by it because there are enough consumers in every single marketplace that wants a company that's going to be around for the long haul that is going to provide that personalized service that's going to be better at it because they're just more nimble than a bigger company could be. And remember that any large company brings with it a bureaucracy that does not exist in a small company, which then creates the speed that they can move, change and adapt, that that smaller company has a better advantage. And so I don't think there's a big disadvantage of being small. It just depends on if you're willing to lever the advantages that you have.

Luke McCormack: That's really interesting. And even if another recession does come, the small local companies that have got relationships and legacies in that area, they'd probably be more likely to survive a recession because their costs aren't so high. They've got that loyalty and obviously it's roofing. So if you're in the right sector, if it's an educational facility, if it's manufacturing, cold storage, these roofs must be maintained. They must be re-roofed. So even through recession, you could almost argue that the smaller companies will be safer than the larger.

Reid Ribble: I totally agree with that. I 100% agree with that. And quite frankly, if there's a big recession that starts to affect cash flow, says private equity's primary focus is the bottom line, they're way more likely to just shut down an operation that's underperforming or try to sell it off on the cheap during that recession. Whereas if that's your livelihood and you've got to make it go, you figure out how to manage through recessions. And the roofing industry is impacted by recession, but they are a bit recession resistant and so particularly the ones that are not too heavily focused in new construction.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I have to tell you, first of all, I want to say thank you, Reid, so much. I do want to say we're going to have this acquisition on topic on a coffee conversations in two weeks too. So if you're listening to this podcast and you want to hear more about acquisitions from some of the top leaders, including Reid, in the industry, that's going to be on Roofer's Coffee Shop. Sorry, shameless plug, but I just think it's going to be really good. I'm really excited about that. But wow, thank you so much for being here today, Reid and for everything that you've done for the industry. I've always been so inspired. I fangirl every once in a while because just what you've done and what you've helped, where the NRCA is gone, I just want to say thank you and thank you for staying around even in retirement and talking to us.

Reid Ribble: Yeah, you're welcome and hang on, Heidi, because I'll be keynoting the IRE in February with a brand new speech that you haven't heard and I hope that it'll inspire you and think even bigger thoughts about your role in our great country and in our economy and so I'm looking forward to being with everybody in San Antonio.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I can't wait. I can't wait. That is awesome.

Luke McCormack: Can't wait to see you in San Antonio. Again, thank you for your time, for everything that you do for the industry, to giving back and continuing to [inaudible 00:36:59] us to do that. We all appreciate it and we look forward to having you on again sometime. For everybody at home, this is People Make Roofing, new episodes coming out weekly. Thank you again, Reid and we will see you soon.

Reid Ribble: See you soon. Thanks much, everybody.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Thank you so much. Be sure to check out all of the People Make Roofing podcast on Roofers Coffee Shop and also on Loop McCormack's LinkedIn, which is the best place to start finding all the information you need when it comes to recruitment. Thank you all and we'll be seeing you on the next People Make Roofing.

Outro: Thanks for listening to People Make Roofing. Together with McCormack Partners and Roofers Coffee Shop, we hope to shape the future of our industry. Share this episode and keep the conversation going because people truly make roofing. Find more at rooferscoffeeshop.com.