People Make Roofing - Tammy Hall - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTS

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Tammy Hall of CFS Roofing Services. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to People Make Roofing, a call to action led by McCormack Partners and RoofersCoffeeShop. We're tackling the industry's biggest challenges, from outdated misconceptions to the widening skills gap. Our mission, to show the next generation the true potential of roofing, including the diverse opportunities, endless growth possibilities and a chance to make a lasting impact. Join us as we share unfiltered stories from industry professionals across North America, inspiring and guiding the future of roofing. This is People Make Roofing.

Luke McCormack: Hello, this is People Make Roofing. I am Luke McCormack, CEO of Roofing Talent America.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I'm Heidi Ellsworth, President of RoofersCoffeeShop and we are here today to celebrate the people who make roofing. And we are so excited to be with Tammy Hall. Hello, Tammy.

Tammy Hall: Hi, guys. Honor to be here with you. I'm Tammy Hall. I'm the Director of Marketing and Business Development for CFS Roofing. Our corporate headquarters are in Fort Myers, Florida. We have offices in Naples and in Sarasota, Florida.

Luke McCormack: Fantastic. Well, Tammy, thank you so much for joining us and supporting our campaign. The campaign has been running since 2021 and the purpose of this campaign is to dispel all the myths that people have about this industry. Roofing, historically has been seen as [inaudible 00:01:31], dead end, outdated, no career prospects, no money, but we all know that couldn't be further from the truth. So, is there a way of trying to give back to the industry? People Make Roofing is shining a light on the great people within the American roofing industry. People like you, Tammy and this content will be getting shared far and wide.

Luke McCormack: The goal is to get it all on the Roofing Careers Hub, share it with schools, colleges, universities and as you know, to join roofing, you don't need to start as a roofer. So we'll also be sharing it with other professionals in the world of work and we will continue to bring more blood into the industry, champion the industry and have some really good conversations about what the industry can give people. So yes, thank you so much for joining Tammy and we're very excited to hear what you've got to say.

Tammy Hall: Well, thank you, Luke. And I did not start out on the roof, so I'm one of those people who came in the back door of roofing, not the front door.

Luke McCormack: Yes, exactly. And that's what it's all about. A lot of people think to be in our industry, you need to start as a roofer, but none of us did and it's our industry. So yeah, looking forward to hearing about more about that, Tammy.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. So Tammy, with that in mind, what inspired you to pursue a career in the roofing industry?

Tammy Hall: Well, I actually was not inspired to pursue a career in roofing. I actually, the owner of CFS Roofing, David Crowther and his wife invited me to dinner. And he had told me that he left his family business and was starting this roofing company and do I have any ideas for him with marketing? And I said, "Yeah, I could do a little something." And I had a marketing consulting business that I was just kind of winding down and I was trying to decide what I wanted to do and he's like, "Well, would you mind coming in and maybe we can just talk?" So I went in, and first of all, I was so impressed with his office because I was thinking it was going to be like construction trailers, but it was a really nice office, nothing fancy but very nice, very clean. And I was like, "Oh, my goodness. Okay. That's a [inaudible 00:03:38], a myth dispelled right there."

Tammy Hall: And so we sat down and we started talking and he said, "Listen, I don't have a lot of money, but I could really use the help." And his wife was a really good friend of mine for many years. I said, "Ah, don't worry about money so much, just give me what you can pay me and I'll just come in for a couple weeks." Well, those couple weeks turned into 11 years and he's paying me much better now. But what was interesting was, my first day I said, "Well, give me a couple weeks. I'm kind of winding down some other clients and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do, what my next journey is." And so when I walked in, the first thing he said to me is, "Tammy, I really hate to do this to you, but my service manager, I had to fire. My service admin person is only going to be working today and I have nobody in the service department. Do you think you could just go back there and just maintain it until I find someone?"

Tammy Hall: Well, 10 years later... So I ran the service department, so I literally walked in with no experience, no idea what roofing service was and I think that's a great testament to somebody like David who had 45 years in the industry to take someone right off the street and train them enough to be able to, well, maintain the service, but then over that time, hire the team, work with the crews and just go from A to Z and build a service department. So those are the kinds of things that roofing can do for people. You don't have to have all of this wealth of knowledge, but you have to be willing to learn. You will grow to love the industry. Once you're in it, it's really hard to leave.

Heidi J Ellsworth: You never get out.

Tammy Hall: No, no.

Luke McCormack: That's amazing, Tammy. I think that obviously, you had your own marketing consultancy and you were in multiple other industries and you think about the youth of today, you think about the career options that they've got ahead of them, be it finance, IT, tech. And the type of experience you get in roofing, you could join as a receptionist and be a COO. You could join in marketing and be running service departments. How do you find, given your life experience, that a career in roofing differs from all these other industries that are perhaps seen as a first choice as opposed to roofing?

Tammy Hall: Well, I think what really is different about roofing is number one, there's a lot of myths around it and people forget that there is a house, there is an office, so you need an accountant, you need a receptionist, you need administrative people. And when you look at IT, we went from a million-dollar company to a $65 million company in 10 years.

Tammy Hall: So I have a full-time digital specialist that does nothing but social media. That's all he does all day long, is put posts in and manage our website, our PPC, all of our digital. I have a full-time videographer and photographer who's extraordinarily talented doing training videos, promotional videos, things like that. I have a full-time graphic person who designs our logos and anything that we need graphically designed. So these are all the things and all the careers that you can look into roofing because to tell that story about roofing, we're getting so much better at it.

Tammy Hall: And that's what's really exciting is you're seeing these key people, young people, coming in as a digital specialist and all of a sudden, you're seeing that content pushed out where we're starting to tell the story of roofing where before, we were all too busy roofing. We didn't have time to tell our story. So I'm excited to see the opportunities. The other thing, Luke that's really interesting is, in Southwest Florida we have a university here called Florida Gulf Coast University. They started five years ago, a construction management course and the president of the university was a personal friend and he reached out to me and said, "We want to have the subcontracting industry involved because most of these kids will go to general contractors."

Tammy Hall: Because of that, five years later, they have an elective on roofing. They work with the alliance and they have the curriculum through the alliance and Clemson, they have now passed that curriculum down to that university who is now and we go in and guest lecture to the kids as well about estimating and things like that. And now they're seeing that, "Wow, I don't have to work for a GC. I can get just as much experience, kind of be a bigger dog in a smaller pond, if you will, in the roofing industry and really let my talents fly."

Luke McCormack: That's amazing, Tammy. Historically, academia and construction haven't really worked in synergy, but with all the great things that the NRCA and the alliance, which is happening in Clemson and even just you reached out, he reached out to you and we've now got specialty subcontracting in academia in Florida. That is absolutely amazing. And it's because of people like you, it's because of initiatives like that that there will be more pathways opening it up for new blood to come in and more education in the industry.

Luke McCormack: And I love what you said about the storytelling aspect. I think that roofing is full of good salt of the earth people [inaudible 00:09:06] great stories, but you're right. We've failed in telling those stories. And I think that over the past few years, collectively, globally as an industry, more people have been invested in marketing, get ourselves in front of the camera, getting the story out there. And as that brand grows, the awareness of the company grows. You get more employees, you get more clients and it's better for the economy, better for the business. The people within the business can move on up, so holistically, it really is just a great thing. So, well done for making that happen, Tammy.

Tammy Hall: Well, and here's another great story. We had a young woman come in and it's always hard to find a good receptionist, someone who can really manage phones and articulate, just good morning, how can we help you and get them to the right person and ask the right questions in a very brief manner. I think people really underestimate the strength and the power and the necessity for a good receptionist. But we had a young woman, her name was Charkha. And so Charkha went from a receptionist into doing project management admin, and she's now our assistant controller and she's a rock star. So that's how that cycle... Most roofing contractors love to promote from within. It's a culture that wants to see people grow.

Tammy Hall: I have another story of a young man who needed a second chance. He came in, he didn't have a driver's license, so I told him, "When you get your driver's license, I'll hire you." Paid a minimum wage. Within a year, he was doing sales. Within another year, he was making over a hundred thousand dollars a year, got married, married a woman with three children, so became an instant dad, bought his first house. I mean, these are the kinds of stories that roofing can provide people who don't know what they want to do and then people who are very directed with an actual plan, whether it's marketing or digital or estimating or accounting. So you can come in, either way, with or without the plan and we can help you just grow, not only in your career but in your life. And that's what I really love about roofing. That's why I stay.

Luke McCormack: Wow. You'll be getting that [inaudible 00:11:21] out because that was amazing, Tammy.

Tammy Hall: They asked me, "Why do you stay in roofing? You could do so many other things." And I'm like, "Well, could I? I don't know." I mean, that's very flattering for people to say, but at the end of the day, the people in this industry are just incredible and I'm talking to two of them. Luke, I met you two years ago and we, really over the last eight months, have gotten to know each other better. Heidi, you're a mentor. When I went to NRC, I didn't know anybody. They don't want to say they're a clique, but it's kind of cliquey at first. [inaudible 00:11:56] always one of those people like, "Well, who are you? Well, do you have anyone to go have a drink with or do you have dinner plans? Well, join us." Those are incredible opportunities to really get to know what's going on in the industry and over on your side of the pond, Luke.

Heidi J Ellsworth: It's funny because Tammy, I felt the same way. When I first met you, it was like instant click, "Let's learn about each other." And I think that's part of roofing that people want to get to know each other and it's very welcoming. And you kind of already answered this, but I want to ask it again. What do you find most rewarding about a career in roofing?

Tammy Hall: So I came into roofing later in life. I didn't come into my twenties and thirties, so I've got a little bit more war wounds than other people maybe entering the industry. So I have had an opportunity to work in large corporations, work for myself and work with a lot of different organizations as a consultant. The thing that I love most about roofing is the doorway we open for individuals to really figure out who they are and what they want. Even if they don't stay in roofing, the structure that the industry provides for some of these and I don't want to use the term lost, but kind of, not sure what I want to do souls, that are out there. And the fact that we can bring them into an environment, a culture that number one, is providing a service. Everybody needs a roof. It protects your family, it protects your belongings, but more importantly, we give them that structure and then they can make decisions. Do I want to stay on the roof?

Tammy Hall: I have a gentleman in service who never wants to get off the roof. He's going to retire putting roofs on. That's what he wants to do. We've offered him superintendent, project [inaudible 00:13:45]. "Nope, I just want to keep putting stuff on the roof." So again, the opportunity and options, it just gets me excited, especially when I see someone like the gentleman I was talking about who really was a lost soul and focused. And what's really interesting, his whole vernacular changed because he was kind of like a... He had a very colorful past that wasn't always on the legal side, but he was an awesome salesperson and what he was selling was not legal, but he did it well. And having said that, his conversation and his vernacular was a little rough around the edges. Heidi, I'm telling you, his whole way he talked, dressed, he wore dreadlocks. And the owner of the company came in and said, "Tammy, you really have to have him cut his hair and shave the beard and take the dreadlocks."

Tammy Hall: I said, "He doesn't see any customers." At the time, he was doing materials. I said, "He's in the office, I'm not making him do it." Six months later, clean cut this, changed, even his clothing. And he said, "You know, Tammy, I heard you. If you want to be somebody, you got to look like somebody." And just the whole personality changed. That's one of many stories we have here at CFS. And if you want to learn, if you're willing to put in the time, we will invest in you. And these are just, why wouldn't you stay in this industry if as you get to my age, where so many people open doors for me and help me. What's the biggest gift I can give back to them is to return that to individuals who need that mentoring or just need that advice or need a door open for them. That's what's incredible about roofing.

Luke McCormack: That's amazing, Tammy. On that, so the younger generation, we know that when they join our industry, they'll be mentored, [inaudible 00:15:44] the career ladder, they'll be paid good money. Get into university, four years later, you're in debt, can't get the job you want because you don't have the working experience, can't get a lower end job because you're overqualified. You've racked up debt. You join roofing, you get an apprenticeship, you've earned money, you've got all these different career prospects, you've good people that will guide you through. You've got companies that will bring you up the career ladder, but yet, it's still not seen as a first choice for the younger generation. And what I'm wondering Tammy is, why do you think that is? And also, what do we do about it?

Tammy Hall: I think we're doing it just right now. And I think that we have not been great communicators. We've been so busy doing our business and I think it's like any of the trades. I think the mentality of the trades has always been, "Oh, that's if you don't have any other choices in your life, you're going to do the trades." And I think you're already hearing it because I work on government affairs on both our state association and our national, you're already hearing legislators talk about that shift from saying, "Everybody needs a four-year degree" to "Everybody needs an opportunity to learn what they are going to be passionate about."

Tammy Hall: Whether that's a four-year degree, a trade school, it doesn't matter. That message is going to take time to fall through, down to that 18-year-old or 19-year-old who's trying to decide what they want to do. But it's happening. And the more that we can put our digital footprints out there on formats that young people look at, the more we can go to universities or trade schools or just in our schools, our kids' schools or family friends schools and be that speaker to the high school kids, the more that message will get out.

Tammy Hall: And I think this is the type of platform that we need because quite honestly, even I do not watch television anymore and I don't listen to the radio. Everything is through my phone. And so, I believe, Luke and Heidi, you guys, I've watched some of your other podcasts and things and you guys are doing an awesome job of getting that message out there. And I love showing your stuff. I pass it around the office, but more importantly, that you guys push it out beyond roofing. And I think that's what's really powerful, that people do know that they have a choice and this isn't like a last option. It's an option.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I love that. It's not a last option. It's a passion. I love it. So part of that, Tammy is and you and I have talked a lot about this, but just that belief in the next generation. So often, we have people who are not being supportive of this next generation or being a little critical, whereas I love your story about, "No, I'm not going to tell them to change. They'll find their own way," and he did, to be this amazing salesperson. But what is some of your advice, and I'm going to ask this a little bit different. I want to ask, what's your advice to other roofing professionals on encouraging the next generation and really making it inclusive and a place they want to be for this next generation to come into roofing?

Tammy Hall: I think the hardest thing that even I struggle with because I come from that, when you get up on time, you're late if you're not five minutes early, that kind of mentality. My family owned their own business, so always I grew up working hard and having responsibilities. This generation of, and not all, but there is a large segment that have no time management skills. They really don't understand the responsibility of, if your hours are 8:00 to 5:00, that means you show up at 8:00, not 8:15, not 8:30, not, "Oh, I couldn't find my socks." I work with a lot of young guys because my whole marketing department is under 35 and the laissez-faire of like, "Oh, you know what? You know, I forgot, I have a dentist appointment so I'm going to be in not until 10:00." I'm like, "Well, did you know yesterday you had it?" Just the fact that they don't have a sense of that.

Tammy Hall: So I've had to learn to adjust and try to walk them through responsibility, structure and without blowing them out the door because that's where I think our culture has to change. We still have to make, our business has to work. If we tell a customer we're going to be at your house at 1:00, we need to be at their house at 1:00. If we're not going to be there, we need to call. So I think that we have to constantly almost do the basics sometimes with some of these folks. And also in Florida, we have a multicultural workforce here. We work with a lot of Hispanics from all around the world, not just the Islands and Mexico, but it's all over. And so we have, we're bringing cultures together and then trying to work with them to understand that structure.

Tammy Hall: If you're not somebody, if it's got to be done my way or the highway, well, you're going to be hiring 40-year-olds and hopefully, they're not falling backwards. But if you really want this next generation, it's about a conversation with them and not pushing them to do something, but asking them, "How can I make an environment for you to be successful and me to be successful? What does that look like to you?" And those are kind of the interview questions that I ask because I want to understand, is this a person who can meet deadlines? Is this a person who understands structure and timeframe? And it's about 50/50. Some do, some don't and then I get options. But I have hired people who said, "Well, I'm not a morning person." I'm like, "Well, what would you think about if you worked 10:00 to 7:00?" "Yeah, I could do that. That would be awesome."

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay.

Tammy Hall: What do I care? It's digital. And so again, it's about our brains rethinking, "I have a goal, our business has to make money or I can't pay you. So how do you fit into that role?" And I think we have to rethink how we work with employees. And I don't want to go as far as the Google scenario where we have, you know bean chairs everywhere and foosballs because that's not roofing. But I do think the structure that we set up and how we work with our employees, there's a lot of models that can encourage young people to want to be here and grow into the roles that eventually they want to have.

Luke McCormack: Amazing. So looking forward, Tammy, there's a lot of changes in the industry. There's private equity getting involved, which is supercharging the growth of companies, professionalizing the industry. We've got a lot of people due to retire. We've got new technology, we've got a lot of things going on. What do you see as the future of the industry and where can young people move into those areas?

Tammy Hall: I think PE is interesting because we were literally invested in two months ago, so we're on that learning curve. We were the second company that this company rolled in and it definitely puts a lot of pressure on your upper management, especially to get things, communicate. And they're not always the best communicators, but their goal is to make sure that your company's running efficiently, effectively and in my case, that we have great customer service. So I love that culture.

Tammy Hall: It's just kind of putting us on steroids, a little faster than maybe we're comfortable with, but we're going to get there. But the culture and the idea of that customer and the employee culture, this particular PE, I just think the world of them. They've done a wonderful job with that. But what that does do, Luke, is it does give people with more skillset, especially in the money side, in estimating, in finance, accounts payable, payroll. It gives those folks an opportunity to come in probably at a higher level of pay than they would've if they were coming into a family-owned roofing contractor.

Tammy Hall: So what you're going to see is the competition as that professionalism keeps going up, that level of pay is going to start being, commensurating with other industries that normally would not have a starting role at those start salaries. It puts a little pressure on the industry, it puts a little pressure on the overall cost of doing business, but you're going to get some really great people in this industry that again, hopefully spills out into your trade schools, your education. And people looking at roofing is like, "If I have a choice to be a comptroller at a healthcare, would I rather have roofing?" Roofing, we're more fun.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We are more fun. I have tell you, and I love what you're saying there about that salaries are going to go up with PE. I hadn't thought about that, Tammy. That is really a great point, as you're looking forward to this. This is going to sound a little backwards from what, because everything you're saying is so progressive. So that's why I want to ask you too, because I think we would be in trouble if we didn't do this, Luke, but being a woman in roofing and for 11 years and I mean, such an amazing partnership with David and everything that you've done, talk to us a little bit about the opportunities in roofing for women.

Tammy Hall: So there's a tremendous amount of opportunities for women, and the roofing industry is a mixed bag of male culture and female culture. It really is. And it was a little bit of a learning curve for me coming from a very corporate, I mean, I grew up with four brothers, so don't get me wrong. I was a tomboy for many, many years and in lots of ways still am, but roofing's a little different. And there's many meetings I'll walk in and I'll be the only woman in the room.

Tammy Hall: I'll be the only woman executive in the room or I'll be the only woman that's not a family member of the owner as a woman in the room. And I think that's changing. I think women are entering the industry more. I think they're, again, this whole communication that we're going out and talking about, you're seeing women come into different roles in roofing as estimators, as project managers, superintendents, as drivers and from there, they're moving into different areas. So it's not where I'd like to see it, but it's certainly getting better.

Tammy Hall: And I think that, and not to take anything away from a female who are part of the family in roofing, but it is a little more difficult for someone who's a female with no roofing background to come in and move up that ladder versus a man with no background and moving up that ladder. We're still not quite there, but I think it's still progressive. And I think there's a lot of owners that say, "Wow, this is great. If you want to come in, let me help you."

Tammy Hall: But there's still a little bit of that good old boy stuff going on and do we ever get away from it? I don't know, maybe not in my lifetime, Heidi, but it's sure fun working at it. It's a lot of fun to be able to lead that pack, break some of those ceilings and be able to show younger women what women can do. And I'm very blessed and very fortunate that I work for some really phenomenal women that paved a way for me and some incredible men who believed in me and opened doors that otherwise wouldn't have been opened. So I think it's a team effort, but we're getting there. It's getting better and better.

Luke McCormack: I think it is. And obviously, I came from the UK marketplace and within the UK, there is a lot of women who are the heads of associations, be it the Institute of Roofing, the Liquid Roof and Waterproof Association, women high up in the National Federation of Roofing Contractors, women that are high up in manufacturing firms that run contracting firms. And here in America as well, there's a lot. We've got you two lovely ladies. We've got Kyle Thomas, his daughter, is doing estimating. Michelle Boykin was a receptionist, she's now a COO. Charles Antis has got Susan Degrassi running the show. You've got Kelly Van Winkle over at King of Texas. You've got Hillary McPartlon at McPartlon Roofing, [inaudible 00:28:56] at BlueThread, doing a lot of recruitment in there.

Luke McCormack: From where I'm standing, I think that there's a lot of women that are getting [inaudible 00:29:05] into senior leadership roles and they're bringing something to the table that inherently, men just don't always have. And when we look at the skill shortage, the generation gap, how desperate we are for new people, if we're only aiming at men, we're missing 50% of the population. And I think it's important to shine a light on the women that make roofing. Obviously, the association itself is one of the fastest growing associations in America. So we know that the industry is getting behind it, and the more women that come through, the better. So appreciate you saying that, Tammy and thanks for reminding us to speak on that, Heidi, because that would've been problematic if we didn't.

Tammy Hall: It would be great to, and I may do this on one of my podcasts, take one of my younger female employees here and have them talk about their perception of what they see their role in a... It's still a male-dominated industry, but how they feel about breaking into roofing and staying in this industry and where they see themselves going. So thanks for the idea for our little internal podcast that we do.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love that you're podcasting. That is so awesome. Tammy, you are progressive. That's what I love. And you are so active in NRCA, in Florida Roofing Contractors Association or FRSA. So I have so many questions, but just one last thing, the importance of being involved in the industry and how that makes such a difference for young people.

Tammy Hall: It's huge. And I think the more the SkillsUSA and all these programs that we're looking at bringing youth into, is critical. I'm so fortunate that the owner of CFS believed in getting involved with FRSA, getting involved with NRCA because that's really where you get the power of roofing and the power of your career and the industry ,and the impact that this industry makes because we make a difference in those bigger umbrellas.

Tammy Hall: But every day in your own community, roofing gives back more roofs. Ronald McDonald House, veterans, we give to all kinds of charities. Breast cancer, walkathons, we are such a powerful entity of giving back to the community that sometimes we forget that that's part of our culture as well. And as humans, we want to feel good, not only about what we do every day for a majority of our lives, but also the hours of the day that we can sit back and say, "Wow, I was really busy today, but you know? I got to put that roof on that veteran, that retired veteran's home and that made such a difference to his family."

Tammy Hall: You go to bed being grateful and you have that gratitude. And that's what's really key about this industry. And I think that's why people stay in the industry because they see that. And you wake up in the morning and you're ready, 4:00 comes really early and you're like, "Okay, we're going to rock and roll today. We're going to make it happen." And all the people that you touch, and just like you guys are smiling, majority of my day is smiles. Now, I do have a few frowns, but they're almost always smiles. So that that's the wonderful thing about roofing.

Luke McCormack: Amazing. Well, Tammy, that was so good. Thank you for investing and just being a shining example of the people that make roofing. Thank you so much, Tammy.

Tammy Hall: Well, thank you guys for having me. I both have a lot of respect for both of you and keep up the great work. This is a wonderful podcast and it's great that you're highlighting so many interesting and fascinating people in the industry. Thank you.

Luke McCormack: I appreciate it. Tammy, before we finish up, Heidi and I had an idea the other week there, so we want you to give a question to be asked to the next guest. You don't know who the guest is and they won't know it came from you, but we want to start this going. Obviously, it's People Make Roofing, it's the industry, it's careers, it's young people, it's changes. But if you could think of one question for us to ask the next guest, what would it be?

Tammy Hall: Depending, I think that, where do they see the industry going? What do they really see the future? And you've already shared, Luke. I think it's interesting to hear from the different perspectives because PE is really a force in roofing right now, and it is going to definitely change how we do business, how we hire, our HR processes, our estimating processes, our customer service process. And I think that just getting that perspective of where people started and where they see it going in 50 words or less. I'm actually, now in my own head, thinking about that and had a conversation with [inaudible 00:33:45] Daniels because I was curious. From your perspective, what do you see? Because he's seeing it happen across the country. I'm seeing it happen in Florida.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Right. It's going to change our industry, but we make it, people make it.

Tammy Hall: [inaudible 00:33:59] those different folks and seeing what they're... I've only been doing this 11 years. There's people who have been doing it 50 years, 40 years. It'd be interesting to see what they're thinking.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. Wow. Well, Tammy, we have our next question. Thank you so much for just an amazing People Make Roofing podcast. It was excellent. And for everyone out there, you can find excerpts from this on Luke McCormack's LinkedIn with Roofing Talent America and you can also find it on Roofer's Coffee Shop under People Make Roofing and under the Roofing Talent America directory. So be sure to check all of the People Make Roofing podcast out, and we will be seeing all of you, next time on People Make Roofing.

Luke McCormack: Thank you guys.

Tammy Hall: Thank you guys.

Outro: Thanks for listening to People Make Roofing. Together with McCormack Partners and RoofersCoffeeShop, we hope to shape the future of our industry. Share this episode and keep the conversation going because people truly make roofing. Find more at rooferscoffeeshop.com.