People Make Roofing - Doug Duncan - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Doug Duncan, president of Nations Roof You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Welcome to People Make Roofing, a call to action led by McCormack Partners and Roofers Coffee Shop. We're tackling the industry's biggest challenges, from outdated misconceptions to the widening skills gap, our mission to show the next generation the true potential of roofing, including the diverse opportunities, endless growth possibilities and a chance to make a lasting impact. Join us as we share unfiltered stories from industry professionals across North America, inspiring and guiding the future of roofing. This is People Make Roofing.

Luke McCormack: Hello, everybody. My name is Luke McCormack, CEO of Roofing Talent America and your co-host of People Make Roofing.

Heidi Ellsworth: And hi, I'm Heidi Ellsworth, president of Roofers Coffee Shop and also a co-host on People Make Roofing. And we are so excited to be here today with Doug Duncan from Nations. Doug, welcome to the show.

Doug Duncan: Hi, Heidi, Luke, thank you so much.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, we're so excited to have you here today. We would love it if you would just introduce yourself. And you know what? We would love to hear your story. Share with everybody your history in roofing overall and that'll get us started and we're going to talk about some great stuff today.

Luke McCormack: Yeah, and just to add to that, Heidi, I've been so excited to get you on this campaign, Doug, because from where you started to where you are now to what you do to give back to the industry, I truly believe that you're a shining example. And for parents, teachers, career guidance counselors, anyone outside the world of roofing that wants to know what can be done in this industry, I think you've paved the way for a lot of people, Doug. So really looking forward to hearing it all from where it started to where you are now and your insights into the industry, so thank you so much for joining.

Doug Duncan: Yeah, thanks. I've been excited about this too. I think it's really important, before I get into my story, my story I think is very important right now in our industry and that is the story of a successful career in roofing, right? That's really, and I didn't intend to go down the path that I've gone at all, but the path that I chose I am so grateful for because when I started out in roofing, oh, 35 years ago, my father owned a commercial roofing company and I was not a good student, let's say. It just really was not for me.

So I think how this happened a long time ago, for a lot of people my age and older than me, if you didn't go to school, you were getting a job. And I wasn't always really thankful and grateful that my father owned a roofing company at the beginning, I just wasn't, right? I didn't see the opportunity, I didn't see the career path. But I did, I started out like a lot of people in roofing, I started out working in the warehouse in the summers and my pay for my dad was I'd get a hot dog. That would be my pay for lugging around modified and around the office, around the warehouse and all that good stuff. We had a sheet metal shop there and we bent our own sheet metal, so I did a lot of that kind of work in the summers. But my pay was a hot dog and then he would say I can even sometimes have a tomato or a pickle on there. If I did a good job, I'd get the extras.

But around a roofing shop back then, 30 years ago, it's probably different than it is now. And I learned a lot of interesting stuff from a lot of people, lots of good stuff and lots of stuff that maybe got me in trouble sometimes. But always, I remember from very... He owned a roofing company, I think when I was three, so I didn't really remember the start of the roofing company, but I've always been around these kind of people. And what has not changed in this industry is the genuine type of people we have, the generosity. I remember that back from when I could first remember, the people were so just really heartfelt people and always have been. And today is still that same type of person that is attracted to roofing.

So anyway, I started in warehouse and I did that in the summers. In my article in Professional Roofing, it was I don't want to... I wasn't a good student, I left school. I'm okay, I'm not ashamed to say that, right? I do have a GED, which just adds to my story and that was the start of... So I went through, then I got up on the roof. I worked for my two older brothers, my uncles, my father. So I wasn't always just ready to go to work at that point every single day. And I just didn't see the opportunity back there.

So worked on the roof, worked on commercial buildings in Chicago, a lot of public buildings, a lot of schools and then just started learning. My brother took me aside and he really started mentoring me on the sheet metal side. So we did a lot of sheet metal in the city of Chicago and roofing as well.

And then got to be a foreman, then got to be a superintendent. And then my father unexpectedly passed away in the '90s and we were not business people. He was a business person, but there was no succession planning there, unfortunately. We are just a bunch of roofers without the business side of it, and my older brother really tried to keep that together, but he didn't have the skills to do that. But he tried and we all tried.

Then I broke off on my own and started my own small residential roofing, siding, windows. And I was at kind of a crossroads because I didn't have the business side of this either. I didn't have any business training, I didn't have a formal education. So although it was a very good company that I was running and I had passion about working on people's houses and I had all that, I didn't have the passion for accounting or human resources or contracts or... I had no training in that, so I really was forced to do something at that point.

So I kind of came to a crossroads there and I answered an ad in the Sunday want ads. Nations Roof was hiring an operations manager. I was sitting in my basement. I was living in the city of Chicago, and I was sitting in my basement and I said, "Oh, boy, I got to do something."

So I answered the want ads. I got an interview as an operations manager and I was hired, and it was a very new, new company, Nations Roof had just... I think they maybe had one or two offices at that point.
And I'll tell my quick story for anybody, I'll tell this a lot, but it's important for people who are already in roofing that start getting promoted, that start getting promoted into the office. That is a hard, hard transition. I went through it, but I have the experience to mentor our people now because we're always looking for our next project managers, we're always looking internally for estimators, what their skill set is. And it's a hard transition and I can only share my experience with people, and they can only really understand that until they get into...

So my quick story, which won't resonate today because it's around a fax machine. Yeah. I was hired. I was hired by the president of the office to be the operations manager. And my first day of work, I was sitting at the office and the phone rings and I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to really show them what I got." And I've never been in an office environment at that point, 20 years ago.

So I answer the phone and, "Good morning. Nations Roof, how can I help you?" And I look over and my boss, his face is in his hands. I answered the fax machine. I literally answered the fax machine, that was my first day. And he was shaking his head. And I tell that story to all of my people who are coming up through that same path, and they do, they get it at that point or at least they don't... Because there's so many little things that when you come from the field or you don't come into roofing or you're in the field and you go to the office, you just don't get it. And you're competence, you are the man or the woman and you're the skilled person on the roof. And then you come into this office environment and you're really not that confident anymore because the phone rings and you're like, "Oh my God, what do I do with the phone?"

So anyway, that's my story and that was 20 years ago. I started with Nations Roof, and it has been a career beyond my wildest dreams. This was not the path I thought I was ever going to take. But all the different parts of roofing that I worked through, and I just kept plugging away and I kept plugging away. And I had my doubts. I don't have a college education, how am I going to own my own business? Or how am I going to... I had those doubts.

But the best part about roofing that I will always look back on is that you just have to have some passion, hard work and you can go as far as you want to, you don't have to have... If you have a college education, great, we'll take you. Right? We need everybody. But really, it is just great to know that that's all you need and you could be very successful. However your definition of success is, if that's financial success, you can get it here. If that's the success of mentoring and training people and helping the industry, that's the path. There's so many paths, not just contracting, right? There's manufacturing, there's consulting. It's phenomenal how many paths there are to take in roofing.

Luke McCormack: That's so interesting, Doug. And you've went from not really seeing the opportunity that exists in roofing, not really having the commercial acumen to be answering fax machines, to then shoot all the way up the career ladder to becoming the president of Nations Roof Illinois and chairman of the board within the NRCA.

What I'm keen to hear is where is that tipping point in your mind where you realized there is something here, there is a pathway here and you then went down that way? So what was the tipping point that changed in your mind? And how did you get there? Because you don't get to the position you're in without learning all these things, which were once unknowns. So really keen to hear, for our listeners, what changed in your mind? And how did you then sort of progress?

Doug Duncan: Yeah. I talk to a lot of people that have taken my path too, that are on the similar path as I have been. And there was a lot of those moments. There's plenty of moments when I'm tearing off a built-up roof, a pitched built-up roof back then with a spud bar and I'm like, "Boy, I wish I would've stayed in school." A lot of people, we've all gone through that like, "I wish I would've stayed in school."

But then you come back to reality, you're like, "No, no, no, I like doing this. I like being outside." Construction is just in my DNA, right? It's just all of us, anyone in construction, we're here for a reason. We are here for a reason, and it's inside. It's tough to be forced into an industry. It's tough to be forced into that, but once you're there...

So to answer your question, I think that really what I think helped me was the people here. And then I started getting to know people and I was getting the confidence from other people because there's plenty of times where I was just, "Oh boy, I'm a failure." A lot of that.

Some human resource issue was a big one where I botched it and I thought I was doing the right thing or I just... But I would get confidence from others and the coaching from others that started giving me the confidence. I will give a shout out to the FEI program at the NRCA. That, I think I got the inspiration before FEI, but FEI really put it all together to me on how important we really are in our industry and what we do with that, right? As far as the leadership side goes. So I would say that was one of, FEI was probably one of the biggest turning points for me and my leadership roles and stuff like that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow. And I love what you said about it's in our DNA. So many of us come from construction families. My dad was a general contractor, and so we kind of have that in our blood. But then once you get into roofing, it's just like, okay, the people, the jobs, the protection, everything is just so powerful.
So I'm kind of curious, Doug, for you today, looking back at this beautiful career and then where you're at today as president, what is most rewarding about your job?

Doug Duncan: Yeah. The most rewarding thing that when I come into the office, and this doesn't happen every day, but my ears and eyes are open much more now out when anybody who works in our office, if that's a laborer, a foreman, a project manager, an office person, when they start talking about their family, when somebody comes in and shows me a picture. It just happened a couple of weeks ago, one of our foremen came in and he had a new patio put in his house and a picture of his family on this patio. Nice, really nice patio. Those kinds of situations, that's what gets me going.

I feel I have a little part in that and helping that. And when I see that, or someone comes in and shows us pictures of their newborn baby or anything, we just talked about it not long ago with a couple of my coworkers here, is I'm a really bad advocate for myself. I'm a better advocate for other people and I'm learning that, but also, I want to be an advocate for myself too. But that is just something that's always kind of when I...

Or my new project manager, brand new project manager, but he's been with me a long time, he's come up through the ranks, let's say. He was our warehouse coordinator, then he was our safety director and he wants to keep doing it, so now he's brand new project manager. And I saw last week when he walked in, I saw that he got it. He walked in, his eyes were... I understood that he understands his job and he still has a smile on his face. I could feel that that's where he got it and I knew it and I told him that. But that's kind of the stuff that really kind of gets me going is when I can see that, people grow and all that other stuff.

Luke McCormack: It's all about the people, Doug. People Make Roofing. On that, when you look at your career, for example, from where you started to where you are now, you think, geez, what an amazing industry. There's people that will help you. You can move up the career ladder. If you don't have the experience, the NRCA has courses there to develop you. And we know that today, what the NRCA are doing with the alliance, with the education, with giving back, it's something really special.

And for me, when I joined the roofing industry, my father had his own contracting firm. And I joined a bit differently, I joined doing recruitment. And I always thought, "Why is there a skill shortage? Why is there a generation gap? Why is roofing not seen as a viable career option for young people?" Because when you actually look in the industry, you see what it's doing for the world, what it's doing for the people within it and the success that exists. It really does make you think, "Why do we not have people lining up outside our offices to join this industry?"

And I'd like to pose that question to you, Doug. Why do you think it's not really seen as a viable career option in comparison to other industries that are out there?

Doug Duncan: I think there's several reasons. There's plenty, right? There's plenty of reasons I think why. But the one major factor here is I think that they just don't know. They just don't know. But through what you guys are doing and what the NRCA is doing, and everyone, it's to get this out there, it's to get this story out there. It's getting my story out there. I think that's the main factor behind it is they don't know. Lack of education about the industry.

But I feel a turn, even my own neighborhood and with parents and I've got young, well, high school, my daughter's in high school now, I think that's still young, but the discussions with the parents have changed. I really think that the college path, I think people are coming into more reality now. And not just parents, I really hear that from the government side as well, that probably, I haven't paid for college yet, but I would assume enough people got smart enough that parents didn't want to pay for one semester of college anymore and then to then find out that maybe they shouldn't have pressured their kid to go that path just because.

So I do feel that that narrative is changing, and I think that's going to help with younger people. But yeah, to keep getting in front of people and it's just overwhelming how many programs and CTE and SkillsUSA and the world competitions and it is amazing. It's overwhelming sometimes. And I want to do, I think probably like all of us, I want to be my hands in everything, but you can't. There's not enough... Well, Heidi, you can. You can have your in everything, for sure, but you're special.

Heidi Ellsworth: Not everything.

Doug Duncan: But you know what I mean, there's just so much out there and I feel the momentum just going and going and going and yeah. So I think getting the word out, keep telling stories like mine for a certain type of person. And I think it's going to take just a lot about our personalities of we've made the decision at home, if one of our kids is not college material, we're going to find out before we pay a $80,000 a year tuition. We're going to find out much before that, I think.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's a totally different way of thinking than when I grew up. And my family, I was the first one in our family to go to college, but it was just my mom was just like, "You're all going to college. That's it." But yet no one in the previous generation had for the most part.

So to look at that today, I love this change. And I think when we talk about being involved in everything, Doug, we do have to talk about SkillsUSA because you and I were both there. And SkillsUSA, when I watched the parents sitting on the sideline, watching their students put on, heat weld commercial flat roofs, low slope roofing systems, I was teary. It was just so cool to see those parents so involved.

So I guess I would love to ask you, what is some advice that you would give, whether it's those competitors at SkillsUSA, the competitors that we had at the Young Roofers over in Austria, all the young kids who are coming out of high school, what's some of your advice you would give them about considering roofing as a career?

Doug Duncan: I guess I'd first say it is a very easy career to get into. It's pretty easy to get into roofing. We need people, the industry needs people. I don't know a roofing contractor, manufacturer, consultant, any arms of our industry, it'd be pretty easy to get your foot in the door. So that's number one, not really advice, but you fill out an application and you should be able to get your foot in the door in some capacity. Maybe not right to project manager if you have no experience or no educational background. You might want to set your bar a little bit lower.

But again, to any of the younger people in our organization, I can only share my experience with them. I don't have another... I like to share off of my experience, and I like to coach and mentor. So not everyone's going to relate to my story because they're different. But I'm always upfront and honest. And my advice is there's no better value than getting on a roof and seeing what it is and seeing what is a roof? How does it go down?
Because there are some estimators that can estimate, they have the skills for it. They don't have to be on a roof, they can estimate a roof. But it's such a faster path if you know what people are talking about. So I would always say that's where you get in on that.

And the other piece of advice is think a little bit longer term. Yes, it's hard to be tearing off a roof, but it doesn't have to be forever. It doesn't have to be for five years. If you really want to get into, if project management is your passion, if estimating is your passion, if owning your own roofing company is your passion, I feel it's important to go through those steps. But it doesn't have to take you five years to get from tearing off a roof, that could be part of the succession plan that you have with your company.

So the advice would be to just get in the door. And I will promise you, if you work hard, it is a fantastic career and people will help you along the way.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Luke McCormack: Yes. That's amazing, Doug. And you've seen a lot from coming from being on the site to being in the boardroom, being with Nations since there was only one or two offices to where you guys are now and you've seen how much the field has changed over the past 10 years. But looking to the future now in terms of all the new safety, AI, private equity, competition, people retiring, the industry is ripe for innovation and change. And I'm really interested to hear from you, Doug, what is the future of roofing? And where can young people plug into that?

Doug Duncan: Yeah. That's a good question. And I thought about this and what is so important is that the leaders in roofing, in our industry, not just leaders, we have to start thinking about future. Because like you said, I like that, it's ripe, right? There is so much coming at us right now, but it's all good. I guess we don't necessarily know how great it can be or if there's going to be some bumps along the road with private equity. I don't think the verdict is out is, oh my gosh, did this really elevate our industry or was there bumps along the road? I don't think anyone could truly say what impact that's going to have just yet. It could be a great impact.

But I think there's some people, there's a lot of speculation about private equity and it's because it's the unknown. We're roofers. We're roofers here. And even in this part of it, I'll speak for myself personally, is I have to be educated on private equity. I would like to know how... It might not impact in my position on a day-to-day basis. We have to do some different reporting and things like that. But when somebody comes up to me, I think in the industry with private equity, is these rumors just have been flying around. We have friends that are competitors that might've been... And they might've had a really bad experience, but that's the only thing maybe we know about private equity and that scares people.

So I think education about private equity and what it really is, and private equity isn't just coming into your company to burn you down and do all this other stuff and sell off your business' parts. That could be a possibility, but we don't know what this is really going to do. But I think private equity is here and it's going to be part of our future. But I think getting educated on it, that's been my path is just to see how this... Because we're very close in our industry and rumors just fly and this and that, and it doesn't do anyone good to get so worked up about stuff that we really don't know about because it's so new.

I think the other part of this and the future is hopefully the people that we're connecting with today through this podcast, that the younger generation, if you're listening, we need you. And it is very important. Everybody needs a roof. I think we're all secure in our jobs. Everyone's always going to need a roof on their house.

But the future is the younger generation, which, Heidi, brings me back to SkillsUSA is when we were there and I talked to the competitors and these are young people. And not every one of them wants to go into roofing, but it puts such a... I trusted again in our people. I trusted, because they're so professional, I can't come up with the word that I had thought of, but reinvigorated about younger generations because these kids were so professional. And I really was, when I was talking to them, I'm like, "Oh my God, these are some really, really genuine, hardworking people." I guess it puts some faith back into humanity for me. It just was, it was powerful.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And I think, Doug, that is such a good point because really, what the future of the roofing industry is is this next generation. And we so often get, people get caught up in, they don't do things the same way we do, they look at things different and stuff like that. And I kind of, I'm with you, I see those young people from SkillsUSA, I see the young people coming up and I'm like, "Yeah, they don't do things the same way we do. That is great."

Doug Duncan: That's what's good about it.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is what's good about it. This is the future of our industry, and I'm really celebrating that and I love that.

And I think I had one last question just from your perspective as the NRCA chairman, what do you see... I just think the NRCA has done such a fabulous job with career development and getting out to technical schools and vocational schools and pro certification and all of those kind of things. What's some of your thoughts on your chairmanship and really the future of that next generation and how NRCA is looking towards that?

Doug Duncan: From that lens and from wearing that hat, there's a couple hats going on, but from that, what has been so great about the NRCA and about being involved in it is you have some of the brightest people in the world coming together. And we are talking with strategic planning, right? We're talking about what are some threats to the industry? What are opportunities to the industry?

And in the committee and association world, things... It's difficult for a person like me because in my work life, I can make decisions just if I want to. I can make the decision to change something, I can make that decision and that's what I'm kind of used to. But when you get into an association, it's different. But it's all going towards everyone, for the most part, rows in the same direction. And that's what is so great.

And there's one thing that everyone is agreeing on right now within the association is that the next generation has to have a place, has to know about it, has to be trained, has to learn about roofing. That's what's, I think, so great about the NRCA is it's kind of the glue that brings us all together and gets us in one room and it's powerful stuff. And I had no intention of being the chairman of the board of the NRCA. I can tell you it was not in any thoughts of mine until my friends in the association started talking to me and giving me, again, back through it, giving me confidence and reminding me about my story, saying, "Hey, this might be a good opportunity to tell your story, to let kids know that you can go from working in a dumpster to the president of a successful roofing company to the NRCA." And why I really then got those two things when I was asked to start moving up.

And I didn't know I was on the path to a chairman of the board until like... I didn't know there a, you have to go on the board of directors and you have to go on the executive and then there's a path. I didn't know that. Somewhere along like the second stint of me being on the board of directors, somebody said something and I said, "Whoa, wait, what?" Yeah, this is like the third... This is like, "Hey, you're being noticed here and people are starting to talk and they're recognizing that you're got some passion." And I said, "Oh." So I didn't even know that that was really the path to that.

But because of my story, I thought that's why I accepted, because if I can talk to people, younger people, they can understand where I'm coming from. And then the second part of that is I owe. That's it, I owe this industry. I owe people my service for doing this. And to this day, those two things are why I accepted that really important role. But yeah, so that's it, that's the NRCA story.

But the SkillsUSA, everybody, the staff, committee members, it is full court press. There's so many good things that, Luke, you mentioned the alliance and the Clemson and there's so many different avenues.

Heidi Ellsworth: Doug, you are perfect for People Make Roofing.

Luke McCormack: You really are, Doug and you're very humble, considering everything you've achieved and do to give back. It's very humble and I think it's very deserved for you to be at the position that you are within the NRCA, so we're very thankful and very grateful to you. If there's a young person out there and they're wanting to join the roofing industry and they're in Illinois, Doug is your man. And Doug, I'm sure if anyone comes to you nationally that wants to get into the industry, you'll be able to help them move up the career ladder and hopefully be where you are one day.

Doug Duncan: Yeah. I would say it, I just thought about this one. I've got, my wife's cousin, out of the blue, called me a couple months ago and he said, "Hey, I'm thinking about getting into roofing." He's heard all my stories at Thanksgiving, and he said, "I'm really thinking about getting into roofing. Could you help me?" And I said, "I can get you started, for sure."

And it dawned on me, the first thing that I did, I called Amy Staska at the NRCA and I said, "I've got somebody who's really interested, doesn't know which path they want to go down." But he's got some construction experience and younger guy, new family, all this. And he's really starting to think, "Hey, I better start getting going here." And I called Amy and I said, "Hey, I..." I told her the story and I said, "Could you send him the track, the low-slope track program online? Could you send him the link to that?"

That was the first thing I thought of and I sent it to him and I said, "Hey, go through this track program that will teach you the basics of roofing. Just start right there." And he did, and he's still working through some stuff, but he went through that program and it wasn't something I thought of, but it was right there. I was like, "Oh, I got the perfect thing."

And again, that is just giving him what roofing is, what a deck is, what a membrane is and it's just given him the basics. But yeah, that's a start. That is a good start for that program that was created by the NRCA and the committee members, and we all had a little part in that one too. So that's a great tool, I think, to learn.

Heidi Ellsworth: And now your cousin needs to talk to Luke.

Doug Duncan: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: Then that's how you get into the roofing industry, there you go.

Luke McCormack: [inaudible 00:38:43]. We've brought people into the industry. One guy was a professional golfer, one was an English teacher, people from just out with construction. So you don't always need to start on the site. There's lots of opportunities for professionals from other industries to join. And if you're looking at the roofing industry, we are hiring. And they'll get a great example of what a career in roofing can give. So thank you so much for giving your time to this campaign. And anyone else that you want to invite on, Doug, that is also a shining example of what a career in roofing can give, then Heidi and I would love to give them some airtime as well.

Doug Duncan: I have the perfect person, but I want to talk with him first. But boy, I have somebody who will really... We'll talk later about that one, but I got the perfect person.

Luke McCormack: [inaudible 00:39:38].

Heidi Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:39:38]. Yeah.

Doug Duncan: I got to talk to him first. I'm not going to give you the name just yet.

Luke McCormack: Doug, we appreciate it. We will see you in San Antonio in a few weeks. And yeah, thank you.

Doug Duncan: Thank you for everything you guys are doing. Appreciate it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you for everyone that's listening. You can see all of our People Make Roofing podcasts on Roofers Coffee Shop and Roofing Talent America, excuse me and Roofing Talent America. Also, be sure to check out the engaged conversation and excerpts on Luke McCormack's LinkedIn. We'll be seeing you next time on People Make Roofing.

Luke McCormack: Thank you guys. Bye-bye.

Doug Duncan: Thanks again. Bye.

Outro: Thanks for listening to People Make Roofing. Together with McCormack Partners and Roofers Coffee Shop, we hope to shape the future of our industry. Share this episode and keep the conversation going because people truly make roofing. Find more at RoofersCoffeeshop.com.