Jack Gottesman & Dyana Sweigart – Hail No: The Importance of Impact Ratings - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Jack Gottesman and Dyana Sweigart of IKO. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So, fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road, trips from Roofers Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and we are on the road talking with our friends from ICO about something that is so important right now going into the spring, and that is hell impact ratings. Man, I can't tell you how important that is across the board, and we've got the experts here to talk about it. So, Jack Diana, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. This is so exciting. 

Jack Gottesman: I love it. Heidi. It's always good to be back together again with you. You, you keep inviting us back, which means that we haven't, uh, we haven't blown it yet, but, oh, 

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, you guys 

Jack Gottesman: Gimme another opportunity. I'm sure I'll disappoint you. 

Heidi Ellsworth: I'm telling you, you're the best. You are the best. And I, we love these conversations as we all know. It is always so much fun. So, let's start with some introductions. So, first of all, Diane, let's start with you. Can you introduce yourself and tell us what you do with ico? 

Dyana Sweigart: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Dyana Sweigart. I'm the marketing services manager for ico. So I oversee all of the United States residential marketing. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. And Jack, you hardly even need an introduction, but can you introduce yourself and tell us what you do? 

Jack Gottesman: I think I'm a full-time road tripper. That's what it feels like. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes, 

Jack Gottesman: Yes. But when I'm, when I'm not road tripping with Heidi, I oversee ICO's, roof Pro loyalty program and marketing for North America. 

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. Okay. You two the experts. Let's start with, and Jack, let's start with you. Sure. Just what, what is hell impact ratings? What is it? 

Jack Gottesman: Sure. So it's really, it's just that it's an impact rating. It doesn't mean that the shingles are, it's not a hail rating, it's not a tree branch rating. It's an impact resistant rating that is tested through a third party. Though we do do a lot of this testing in-house also, just to, just to, you know, be prepared for what's gonna happen at the third party. So there, there are two organizations that generally oversee. One is called fm, one is called ul. And they are going to test based on the size of an impact, how, how much a shingle can or in this situation a shingle, but how much a, a, a shingle or a product can withstand on the incoming. They are potentially helpful for homeowners to be able to qualify for a discount with their insurance company. So that's not a guarantee. It depends where you live. You really almost need to be an attorney to talk about any of this, because there are a ton of disclaimers. But what's exciting about it is that homeowners can potentially earn a year, earn a discount with their insurance companies, but we'll almost certainly see that IR rating and have even just a little bit more peace of mind. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That, so you, and you kind of started answering this for us, but Diana, I'd love you to take this just one step further on. Why should contractors and homeowners care about impact ratings? 

Dyana Sweigert: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that, as we all know, the weather's been getting more and more increasingly severe. No hurricanes, hail, high winds, really all of the above. So it's just really critical, I think, for the longevity of your roof and for the peace of mind for homeowners to really have a shingle that can withstand, you know, mother nature's tests. So that's why it's so critical for us to have all of our laminate shingles be either a class three or class four impact resistance, have an impact resistance rating, which is just speaks to our testament, you know, of a performance brand and just always having, you know, quality roofing products out in the marketplace. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And really bringing the, so contractors can bring these solutions to the homeowners to mm-hmm <affirmative>. To combat this severe weather. You know, I've been That Jack Yeah, go ahead, 

Jack Gottesman: Jack. I, no, I, I, I, I entirely agree with Diana. I mean, when we, when we take proven performance and we've put that at the performance has always been at the heart of everything that we do. But now it's starting in 2025, and I think we, uh, we made this news on, on this podcast, we've changed our, our tagline, our slogan, our, our two proven performance. So, 

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. 

Jack Gottesman: It's always been the, at the heart of everything that we do now, it's the face of everything that we do, and between wind resistance and algae resistance performance colors, we, we really believe that impact resistance is what we need to offer both homeowners and contractors to be able to hopefully maximize their protection. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Jack Gottesman: And, uh, and, and like Diana said, we went ahead and did that. Now, starting in 2025, all of our shingles that are, that are laminates have a, uh, a, uh, class three or class four impact sistance rate. 

Heidi Ellsworth: So, 

Dyana Sweigert: And just for anyone that is not familiar, class four is the highest rating that you can achieve. So it's class one, class two, class three, class four. So yeah, class four is the highest you can achieve. So our Nordic line of shingles and some of our designer shingles have class four. And then now all of our Cambridge shingles and dynasty shingles have a class three, which is very, very exciting. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, that's so exciting. And to have that across all of your lines, that's really important. You know what, Jack, I, I, I've been in this industry a long time and have seen all this, but I think for a lot of people out there, they might not know, like, how does it get rated? So can you kind of share how, how these ratings are established and who tests them and how, how, how do, how, how can that be backed up? 

Jack Gottesman: Sure. So there are basically two organizations. One is called fm, one is called ul, and they have different, very, really sophisticated ways of testing. But one of the tests is basically dropping a metal ball from a height onto the, onto the, onto the shingle. And then you, you test what the, what the results of that impact is, how it affects the asphalt, how it affects the, the granules, and how it affects the shingle. And you can see how it is designed. The, the, the result of that is to see how the shingle is designed to withstand impact. And impact can really be anything, right? Like the, the, we, we, like I said at the top, a lot of people have a tendency to call it hail rated shingles. They're not hail rated. They're, 

Heidi Ellsworth: I did that resistance did, sorry. 

Jack Gottesman: It's okay. <laugh>. That's okay. No worries. So we just wanna be careful with to, to just call them impact resistant shingles and, and so what they, they, they achieve based on whichever one of the many tests that, that are available. And that is something, you know, we're always innovating. We're always, we're always moving towards performance. And that's something that we always wanna be ready to do. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, I, I agree. And, and to be able to have that third party stamp of saying this is a class three or this is a class four, 

Jack Gottesman: Correct? Yes. 

Heidi Ellsworth: And I've seen those balls, those big metal balls drop Yes. From way high. Yes. So it's not an easy test to 

Jack Gottesman: Pass. Correct. Yes. There could be an asphalt bleed on that, which is, you know, definitely not what you want. Um, because that theoretically could impact the performance of the shingle. There is also an ice cannon test that is performed sometimes. So, so really, whatever, whatever the test is, we wanna design our shingles so that they can pass that third party testing and then we can bring them into the marketplace to hopefully give our contractors just just a, a, a tiny bit more peace of mind with all sorts of things flying from the 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Jack Gottesman: Flying out the skies 

Heidi Ellsworth: For everywhere. So Diana, I would love for you to kind of talk a little bit, I mean you already explained it, but what are some of the benefits of a class three and then a class four to the homeowners, and what can the con, what should the contractors be talking about around that, those benefits? 

Dyana Sweigert: Yeah. The biggest benefit peace of mind for, you know, having a resilient roof is that some insurance policies do offer a discount on your, on your home insurance policy if you do get an impact resistance rated shingle for your roof. So I think that's a huge benefit for homeowners. I think everyone's always looking to save a little bit of money. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. 

Dyana Sweigert: You know, so I think that's a great opportunity. But yeah, also, you know, you replacing a roof is a huge investment. It can be stressful. So I think that having a more resilient roof, you know, shingles that are impact resistance rated, I think that just offers a better quality roof and something that will, you know, withstand increasingly severe weather that we've all been experiencing. 

Heidi Ellsworth: You know, Jack? 

Jack Gottesman: Yeah, 

Heidi Ellsworth: Because I was gonna say, one of the things is, I mean, let's just talk about the inconvenience factor, right? Having to replace your roof. And I think for years and years that did happen where a lot of homeowners were replacing their roofs after a hailstorm, whereas now they can get the impact resistant shingles and really be more on the front of that. 

Jack Gottesman: Correct. I, there's a video that we have on our, on our website of a guy who, a contractor who was in Dallas, right. Hail area, and he had to remove a roof that had withstood impact damage that was not very old at all. And he replaced it with the, and I go Nordic roof, which carries a Class four impact resistance rating. And, and, uh, like I was saying before, class four shingles are tested with a process that replicates the impact of really two inch hail. Giant hail is exceptionally dangerous. So there are no real tests for something bigger than than two inches. Right. We're talking the size of a softball or a grapefruit or, or something like that. But that is how class four is tested. So the homeowner really just had that peace of mind by being able to say like, okay, if there was hail once, there's probably gonna be again in, in this neighborhood. So if I have something that's tested that is tested up to that to replicate that two inches of, of hail, alright, maybe I could feel a little bit better. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. When those, when that hail starts coming down softball size, you just don't wanna be in the way of that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. No, 

Dyana Sweigert: No, not really. 

Heidi Ellsworth: No, not 

Dyana Sweigert: At all. I think, I think another thing too, like I was just in Dallas last week with one of our roof pro contractors and you know, there was a, a hailstorm that came through. He got a call from one of his customers, a a homeowner that was concerned about damage. He got up there on the roof and found no damage, which was amazing. Awesome. Because I believe it was ICO Nordic, which like Jack said, does have a class four ir, but you know, who did have damage is a couple of their neighbors who didn't have ICO roofs. And I probably, you know, didn't have either a class three or class four impact resistant shingle. So it, it is interesting, you know, reviewing the damage or lack thereof. And, you know, that's potentially another huge benefit to homeowners. Like I, like I said, if you only, you know, replace your roof maybe once, hopefully only once, but it's just a, it's just a better product. And like I said, more peace of mind at the end of the day. 

Heidi Ellsworth: And, you know, and it makes total sense. Besides saving money on your homeowner's insurance, which I know is policy specific, you gotta look into it, check with on your insurance carriers, but also just, I, I'm thinking about your story, Diana. That is, that's so true. Where you have somebody and both sides now are gonna be re-roofing, but you're not Right. Exactly. <laugh>, you, you don't have to have all that disruption in your yard disruption above you. It, it, it makes sense. And I think homeowners are tired of that disruption. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean, after every storm. 

Dyana Sweigert: Yeah. And I mean, again, in no way is it a guarantee. Like there's no guarantee that we can, you know, make to prevent any damage. But if there's something we can do, like getting these impact resistance ratings on our shingles, I think that's just better for everybody involved. 

Jack Gottesman: Yeah. So yeah, I bet you you're gonna ask the next question. I I know you so well, I I can anticipate the next question. I 

Heidi Ellsworth: Go ahead. I love it. Okay, go, go for it. I'm ready. Let's see if it's gonna be what I was gonna ask 

Jack Gottesman: Just for that peace of mind for homeowners, right? Yes. So, so for the contractor to be able to explain to them, okay, if you want a class three shingle that for the UL testing that's gonna be 1.75 inches in, in diameter for that steel ball test or a or a, an ice ball, an ice cannon that that's shot at one at, at the, at the same amount. And for class four, that's gonna be two inches just for that homeowner to be able to adhere that from their contractor to get that explanation to know that they are, that they are working towards that protection is, is is peace of mind that, that, uh, we feel that it is our job to give both them and the and the contractor Yeah. Because the contractor doesn't wanna get that call 

Heidi Ellsworth: Again either. No, because they're partners. I mean, we want to, as you guys all the time, give the contractors everything they need to have really happy homeowners. And one of the things, so Jack, this, that was a question, but now I have another one for you. And it's really, 'cause you said it earlier, you know about all the different things that you're putting into your shingles when it comes to performance. I think sometimes people think, well, I can either get an impact relate, you know, I can get an impact resistant shingle or I can get something that's gonna work, you know, other performance elements. But really it's everything, right? It's the color, it's the ease of use. You guys only are adding all these great things. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Jack Gottesman: Absolutely. Heidi, when it comes to our dynasty and Nordic shingles, we are continuously innovating. We have, they, they all come in a variety of enhanced colors that look amazing on the roof. They carry a, a wind resistance rating of up to 130 miles an hour. Yeah. Because of that armor, the wide nailing zone on the face, what we call armor zone in the, that's reinforced by the band in the back to help protect against everything from nail penetration to wind uplift. And now the impact rating with class three on, on dynasty class four on, on Nordic, you know, every inch there's something going on on, on every inch of this shingle. There's a story to tell about the performance that we are putting into this for both to give peace of mind to our workflow contractors and our, and the homeowners that are going to be buying for them that that end user. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And it really, I mean, as a contractor and as a homeowner, you shouldn't be thinking it's an either or situation. You should be looking for all of this. 

Jack Gottesman: Correct. Yes. Yes. A homeowner should not need a compromise. It's a roof is expensive. It's something that they're probably only gonna need to do once or twice in their life if we're being very honest. It is potentially something that they don't want to be doing right now. Right. A project that they have to be doing mm-hmm <affirmative>. So maximizing their protection is the smart way to 

Heidi Ellsworth: Go. Yeah. And putting all that together, you, Diana you guys have had some great launches over the last couple years. I mean, you're just doing your colors, you're so well known for your colors. Just talk a little bit about that across all of your brands and really bringing this performance but beauty together. 

Dyana Sweigert: Yeah, Heidi, I mean, we have amazing color blends and I think, you know, I, I've heard from the market a couple of people in the marketplace that we have some of the best color blends on the market, which is fantastic. So we've always been trying to, you know, kind of promote the exterior aesthetic of a home because that's so critical for homeowners. And I think that we do, you know, we, we have such a great color offering and something that is special to ICO is that we have these color videos. So if you go on our YouTube playlist, we have playlists for each and every one of our color blinds. And it shows it's about a 32nd clip and it shows every single color blend that we have on a shingle in different views, different angles, different times of day, and kind of how we got to those shingle color selection. So it's just, it's, it's awesome. I mean we've been promoting those for about over a year now, and it's really cool to see, you know, the views go up and we can kind of see what the most popular colors are. So it's something that, you know, we're always really happy to offer to our customers and then for them to offer to homeowners too, just to make sure that they're making the right choice for their shingle color on the roof. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Well, and Jack curb appeal and performance have been the mantra forever and ever. Yeah. And now the thing I I love is this thought about, you know, being able to really, for a homeowner or a contractor to work with their homeowners to go in and say, these are the colors, this is what the curb appeal's gonna do. Okay now Yeah. And here's the performance of impact resistance, high wind warranties, all, all of the other things. So Jack kind of talk about how that all of you seeing 

Jack Gottesman: That Yeah, it, it's, it's that, that's exactly right. And that's the message that we wanna send out. So those color videos that Diana's, that Diana mentioned a moment ago, if you've had a look at those, you'll be able to see in, in just 30 seconds. It really paints a full picture and tells an entire story. It's gonna show what the shingles look like on a, on a real roof. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It is going to show the, it's going to, to have a stamp for what impact resistance rating the, at whatever particular shingle you're looking at Carries. It is also going to show how the na the colors were inspired, where through nature they were, they were inspired, which is, which is amazing, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it is also going to show the, the armor zone and wind and wind resistance rating as well. So it's, it's just about it, it all goes together exactly like you're saying. We don't want to have a situation where people feel that they need to choose between beauty or performance. If you come to echo, you come to our brand new website, that's the message that we want homeowners to, to be able to take away that these, that these shingles are, are, there's beauty, you can see quality, you can feel performance you can trust, and then you can take that to click the link, hire a pro contractor and get yourself a new roof quick. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I love it. Okay, so for the contractors out there, I kind of wanna send home some, some of your advice. And Jack, I'm gonna start with you. Sure. Some of your advice as contractors are having discussions about how impact products with their homeowners, what are some of the things the contractors should be talking about and how can they really help their contract or their homeowners to make that leap to get that better product? 

Jack Gottesman: Yeah, that's a great question. So first of all, we're kind of removing that aspect out of it by giving the impact resistance even to, into, onto our Cambridge line, our introductory laminate. Our message to the, to the marketplace is that you never need a compromise on performance. 

Jack Gottesman: Yes. 

Jack Gottesman: If you wanna go with the introductory laminate for whatever reason, and, and Cambridge is a great product, there are 1,000,001 reasons to to, to go to pick Cambridge, uh, our introductory laminate, then no problem. You're not going to be, when it comes to, when it comes to impact rating, you're not gonna be compromising on performance. We're still gonna offer that class three impact resistance rating, which, like we said before, the shingles were able to withstand a steel balls impact without cracking up to an inch, 1.75 inches in, in diameter or the or the ice cannon if you, if you wanna go with the FM test. So hopefully that's not a choice that people are going to need to make. There is a stair step between our, our introductory laminates and some of our more performance driven features, but we've taken impact rating, impact resistance out of the, out of the question. And we feel that that's something that's really should be a basic need. And if the, uh, competing, competing shingles are not offering that, it's really incumbent on both the roofer and the homeowner to ask why. Yeah. Why, why doesn't it offer that? And what are we giving And, and why would we give that 

Heidi Ellsworth: Up right when it comes as part of it, which is so great. It is correct as part of the shingles that are out there through the ICO line that that's awesome. And I, so, but to continue that sometimes they do come against competitors and they're like, well, we don't need that. We just, you know, we're okay getting our roof. But to really be able to put into the hands of the contract to be able to talk about not only home insurance potential savings, but just that inconvenience. I'm sorry, I know we already talked about it, but man, to me that just makes so much 

Jack Gottesman: Sense. Yeah. You also, you wanna hedge, right? I mean if you're, if you're getting a new roof, it is possible that that decision was inspired by a weather event and mm-hmm <affirmative>. You're gonna wanna possible, if not likely, though, some roofs are just old and, and you're, you're, you're just ready. And some people wanna do it for curb appeal, but the, and Diana's gonna be able to finish my sentence here in a second, but the, the conversation that that is worthwhile to have, okay, if you're putting this roof up and you expect it to last for a while moving forward, the, the trends that we have seen are only so predictive about what can be, do you wanna bet that the weather's gonna get better and less intense? Do you wanna bet that the weather is, weather is gonna get worse and more intense? And how are you gonna protect yourself on that, on that bet? Uh, would you, how would you, would you answer that any differently, Diana? 

Dyana Sweigert: No, I mean, I think that's a great way to put it. And you know, I think it depends on what part of the country you live into. Obviously some parts of the country are more susceptible to severe weather events mm-hmm <affirmative>. But I think no matter where you live, it just gives the homeowner peace of mind to have, no matter what shingle they choose, whether it be Cambridge Dynasty Nordic or any one of our designer shingles, they can rest assured, be rest assured that, you know, the shingles are gonna protect them, protect their home, protect everything inside their home and just perform the way that they're supposed to, which is ultimately our goal at the end of the day. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And Diana, you know, I know we kind of talked about with impact resistance, just so people know out there, like you said it earlier, impact resistance is not just hail, it is tree branches, it's flying debris and windstorms. It's, there's a lot of different things that can make a difference no matter where you're at. 

Jack Gottesman: There, there is something called nesting. Have you ever heard of that? 

Heidi Ellsworth: Mm, 

Jack Gottesman: Okay. It's this, I hadn't heard of it either until I thought that I, you know, the country had gone to war, I was sleeping. And it is this phenomenon where acorn type of things fall off of a certain type of tree. It only happens every couple of years, so it doesn't happen every year. So it'll kind of surprise you. It happens in the fall and certainly what feels like millions and millions of acorns falling down 

Jack Gottesman: Oh my gosh. Onto 

Jack Gottesman: Your roof. So I don't know how big they were or how big they can be. This is, you know, this, this is not to say that they would necessarily fit within the classifications of a, of a class three or class four impact rated shingle. But the point is that that conversation does go well beyond hail. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, being from the Pacific Northwest, we know tree branches. Oh boy. Everything else, boy. Yeah. Oh 

Jack Gottesman: Boy. We 

Heidi Ellsworth: Pine, even some pine cones are pretty 

Jack Gottesman: Yeah. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Coming down on top of that roof. Yeah, 

Jack Gottesman: I know. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you also with pine cones and acorns, if you're walking barefoot in the backyard, you don't see them. You could have be a, a class three or class four risk of spraining your ankle <laugh>. 

Heidi Ellsworth: That's so true. All the time. I, I happened to me this morning when I was walking on out to the car, so, okay. And Jack, at the very beginning you mentioned, you know, you have done, and Diana, you have done so much on your contractor loyalty program. So let's talk just a little bit about how contractors, if they're not already, can become ICO contractors and really get their hands on these great products, performance, beautiful products, but also be part of one of the leading contractor programs that's out there. 

Jack Gottesman: Absolutely. So a, as a part of, so I always like to joke, we're ico, not Geico, but you can get signed up for Roof Pro in under 15 minutes. Okay. And having the, having the ICO suite as the primary offering that you make with all of our shingles being impact rated, right? The conversation that you have with homeowners is going to be a lot easier. Impact resistant shingles, they meet building codes. 'cause some local building codes may require someone to install a impact rated, rated shingles, especially in places where hail is more common by working with ico, if you're, if you're a roof pro, you're gonna have that at your fingertips. That's gonna be what you're, what you're installing anyways. Uh, we mentioned insurance, potential insurance discounts before there was a report at, at one point from NBC news that saying, that said, in some areas it can even go up to 35% of your home insurance premiums. 

Jack Gottesman: That that could, that could be discounted better durability, especially our Nordic shingles, uh, come with SBS polymer modified asphalt. So it's just a kind of rubbery to give homeowners that piece of mind and just knowing that the shingles were designed with performance in mind. So, so why become a roof pro for about a million reasons from the money that you get back and, and our, and, uh, the, with our, our rebated marketing dollars to the partner programs that we have, all the live events. But if, if nothing else, if you really put all of that aside, if you say, I don't need any of the frills or the money for some reason, just the, just the, the, the privilege and benefit of being a, a ICO shingle installer is, is, uh, we have designed that to be able to carry roof pro all very long way. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Diana, you're, you're nodding. You're like, you, you're seeing contractors every day in it, right? 

Dyana Sweigert: Yeah, that's a great answer. And another thing I think just because it's top of mind, but again, I was in the Dallas-Fort Worth area last week and you know, it's becoming increasingly popular for, for the fortified roof installation method. And so you can only, only if you're a roof pro can you install our code plus, which is the fortified roofing system. So it's, it's only for roof pros, it just lends that credibility. There is some light training that they need to take to ensure that they're, you know, installing it up to, up to code and, and the specifications. But again, if you live in an, in an area that really does see severe weather, hail winds, storms, it just makes perfect sense just to be a, a fortified contractor installer and use our code plus roofing system too. 

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. You two are amazing. What a great team. 

Jack Gottesman: We are a great team, but we're better when we're with you, Heidi. Yeah. We love 

Heidi Ellsworth: Being with you. We love you guys. That's how I feel too. I love doing these roofing road trips with you and I mean, it's, it's so fun because it's such a great product on so many different levels and you are so great with your contractors. So I just wanna say to both of you, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing this information and for really putting the products out there that our true roofing respect. 

Jack Gottesman: We're going to keep performing for you and we are going to continue to take feedback and, and listen to what new innovations the roofers out there and roofers coffee shop people who are, who are coming to us via your direction to learn more about us. We hope that they become roof rows and we'll continue to hear from them what they're looking for in the space. The world said they wanted impact resistant shingles. So we have over the last couple of years really delivered on that. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Proud. I love it. I love it. 

Dyana Sweigert: Diane. I think one more thing is that, you know, we have really evolved. We, we've been in the industry for over 70 years. We really have evolved our products and like Jack said, you know, performance is really at the heart of everything that we do. So I would encourage any, any contractors that they haven't tried our products yet to give Cambridge Dynasty Nordic a try and, you know, see how it performs. And I, I'm willing to bet that you won't be disappointed 

Heidi Ellsworth: <laugh>. Yeah, no. And you can find it everywhere. And if you're curious, you can find all the information about ICO on the ICO directory, on Roofer's Coffee Shop. You can also find ICO on Ask a Roofer. So as you're looking out there on Ask a Roofer and asking these questions about impact resistance and about colors and about everything else, it's all right there on Ask a Roofer, one of our premier sponsors. Thank you guys so much. And I'm bringing such great information to the homeowners. Absolutely. I 

Jack Gottesman: Got one last thing to say. Read, listen, and watch. Yes, you have to, you have to. Everybody <laugh>, go to roofers coffee shop.com, read, listen, and watch. There are so many different things, podcasts, videos, books, pictures, ways for you to educate yourselves. The more I have found that the more people educate themselves on this, on this industry, the better prepared they are to run their businesses. And Roofer Coffee Shop really just gives the tools. So thank you Heidi, for everything that you do and it was fun being with you. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow, Jack, thank you. I appreciate it. And Diana, thank you so much. 

Dyana Sweigert: No, thank you. This was so much fun. 

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you. And thank you everyone for listening and being a part of this Roofing Road trip. Please go to the ICO directory, you're gonna find such great information. And really those videos, those color videos outstanding. No one else does anything like it, so check it out. Love these guys. We will be back again. Be sure to check out all of our podcasts under the read. Listen, watch. Thank you, Jack. I'm section of the site and be sure to subscribe and set those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. Wouldn't we'll be seeing you. I wouldn't dare Don't miss one. I wouldn't dare Diana. No way. We'll be seeing you all again next time on Roofing Road Trips. 

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