Bud Polston and Jim Nevin - The Future of Asphalt - PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an live interview with Bud Polston and Jim Nevin with United Asphalts and Heidi Ellsworth, RoofersCoffeeShop Owner. You can read the interview below, or listen to the podcast.

Announcer:
Welcome to Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Explore the roofing industry through the eyes of a long-term professional within the trade. Listen for insights, interviews, and exciting news in the roofing industry today. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips with RoofersCoffeeShop. This is Heidi Ellsworth and I am very excited today to be with two experts from the asphalt world. Today we have Bud Polston, executive vice president of Sales and Marketing with United Asphalts, and Jim Nevin, owner of Unique Chemical Solutions, who is consulting and working with United Asphalts. And these two gentlemen are working on some major research, development, initiatives, launches, all kinds of wonderful things about asphalt, so we're going to have some great conversations today. Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Jim Nevin:
Thank you. 

Bud Polston:
Hi Heidi, good to be here. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love it. This is one of my favorite topics. I know that sounds crazy but having a first job growing up with Malarkey this is something that I just love to hear what's happening. But before we get to that I would love for both of you to do a little bit better introduction than I did, so Bud can you start out, tell us a little bit about yourself? 

Bud Polston:
All right Heidi, as you said, I'm the EVP of Sales and Marketing for United Asphalts. I joined them about four years ago. I actually had an independent rep agency and was selling their products, and as they were looking to the future and, "How do we come up with some new products for this industry," they asked me to come onboard full-time and I've been with them for about four years now. And we're excited to have some new things to share with you guys today.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I'm really excited to hear about those. Jim maybe you can tell us just a little bit about yourself too, please?

Jim Nevin:
Sure. I own and operate, along with my partner Chris Shepherd, a company called Unique Chemical Solutions. We are consultants, primarily, into the asphalt industry, and adhesives and coatings. We specialize in problem solving, technical solutions, marketing and sales. Chris and I both came from Momentum Technologies. Previous to that I worked in specialty chemicals for 15 years and in the aerospace industry for 10 years before that. We're happy to be here representing United Asphalts in some of the new product initiatives that we have undertaken in the last few years. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Well speaking of that Bud maybe you can share, just for our audience, just a little bit more about United Asphalts? A little bit of the history and kind of where you're at.

Bud Polston:
Sure. United Asphalts has been producing the top quality traditional oxidized asphalts since 1961, so they've got a long history of great products and great customer service. They're located right in the heart of the United States, right outside of Denver, so they're right in the Rocky Mountains where we get lots of great raw materials and lots of refineries there for us to partner with. We have national distribution. Recently, just a few years ago, they launched what I call the 50-pound baby kegs. This was kind of a new addition because everybody was used to the big heavy 100-pound kegs and we came up with the idea to have a smaller size. Same exact keg just a smaller size, so it was easier for folks to handle. 
And then as we watched the industry change a little bit. Hot built-up roofing is known to have the best roof system available because of the redundancy and it's fully adhered, but we needed to look to the future with some of the regulations coming out, with some of the newer technologies with severe weather, and so we partnered up with Jim and his team to come out with some new modified asphalts. And we continue to push the envelope with a new packaging offering also.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. We really are looking at the future of asphalt and in roofing, and it's kind of a brand new day in a way because, like you said, things have been changing and with all the modifications. Like we're talking, there's so much innovation right now happening at United Asphalts. Bud what do you see as the future of asphalt in roofing? What's your vision telling us?

Bud Polston:
Well, and I'm sure Jim will back me up on this and get into it a little bit more, but definitely the modified asphalts. So as we've had more severe winters and more severe summers we've needed to make some changes to the oxidized asphalts to get better UV, to get better tensile strengths, better elongation and recovery. And so that's where I see it going. As we see more regulations around you need to have some green space on a roof there are only certain products that you can use in vegetative roofing and asphalt is one of those. We kind of see that as being the trend moving forward.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I think strength of the roof and then, obviously, really looking at how are we waterproofing it? And for those vegetative roofs that's everything. So Jim I kind of started out-

Bud Polston:
For any roof. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. 

Bud Polston:
For any roof you want you can't have a leak.

Heidi Ellsworth:
You don't want any leaks but when you have a whole bunch of soil, and water, and irrigation above it it's even ... You don't want to be digging that puppy up. 

Bud Polston:
Yeah, it's even more important.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. Jim, so I stared out my career, as I've talked about before, at Malarkey and I was a big believer in SBS. But can you talk to us a little bit about SBS and SEBS, modified asphalts? Where they've come from? Where they're at today? And where you see it going for the future?

Jim Nevin:
Sure. I mean, both have been used for quite a long time in asphalt modification. These are what we generally refer to as styrenic block copolymers. They're blocked in that the monomer repeating units, of styrene and butadiene, are grouped together instead of being random. So you have block copolymers and then you can have random copolymers, where you could have styrene and butadiene just intermingled in the polymer chain randomly. So in these applications we normally use what we call the block style and SBS is used for typical roofing, and asphalt paving modification, in order to improve the physical properties of the asphalt. It gives it better cohesive strength, it gives it good elongation, it helps with adhesion, it helps with moisture properties, it helps with things like nail sealability, it drastically improves the cold temperature properties of the asphalt so that it doesn't crack, it helps deformation. 
And then when you go into SEBS, which is also called hydrogenated rubber, you take away the reactive sites of what we call unsaturation, the double bonds between the carbon atoms, which in SBS are used to cross-link the polymer in the asphalt matrix. And in the SEBS you hydrogenate the rubber to take those out so that the rubber is more stable and so it becomes more resistant to degradation, to environmental conditions, so whether it's sunlight or oxidation. Sunlight, the UV from sunlight. For instance you can use it at higher temperatures, so in the case of a lot of roofing applications they require SEBS because the roofing kettles are hotter than you might normally see the asphalt get in like a peel-and-stick membrane factory. They may get over 500 degrees Fahrenheit on some of these applications and the SEBS is a more robust polymer, it won't breakdown due to those high temperatures. 
So they both have similar attributes or, in part, similar attributes to the asphalt itself but they both offer unique attributes as well. The SEBS being more of a high temperature polymer, the SBS being used more in applications where you need the unsaturation sites cross-link it.

Heidi Ellsworth:
So what do you see going forward Jim? And I love when you say rubber because in my total laymen terms I think of it as rubberized asphalt, which is probably totally wrong but that's how you kind of ... When you feel it and you play with the asphalt in different samples. Where do you see the future going between ... Where are the best places for SBS modified asphalts and where are the best for SEBS going into the future?

Jim Nevin:
Well I'm glad you mentioned that because there is some confusion about what these different terms mean. A lot of people will use the term rubber to describe an asphalt product that contains ground tire rubber and an asphalt product that contains SBS or SEBS as being polymer modified. People in the rubber industry typically refer to rubber as being anything that is similarly associated with isoprene, or natural rubber, or natural latex and so they just use the term rubber. But in this industry, mostly when people talk about rubber modified, they're talking about ground tire rubber or some actual rubber compound that's been blended into the asphalt versus a virgin copolymer type thing, like we use with SBS and SEBS. And these polymers are going to be more widely used in the future than they were in the past, we're seeing it now. 
We talked about this last week, where even shingle manufacturers are using a lot of SBS in their products to improve the physical properties of the shingles. Most of that is geared towards improving the impact resistance against hail. In asphalt paving you're going to see a lot more SBS used because it produces a more durable road. 
And as asphalt becomes less and less available, and as the quality of the asphalt becomes less and less, asphalt is going to become almost a strategic raw material, whereas before it was like a throwaway. It hasn't been a throwaway for a long, long time but it used to just be the after product of the production of oil and gasoline, and higher quality, higher cost raw materials from the refining process. Now asphalt, I mean, you need it. You need it to build the structural aspects of society and so it's a very valuable commodity. And I think we're seeing that even now, you're seeing the prices of asphalt go up. They go all over the place, from year to year, but they may go as low as $150 or $200 a ton and it's gone up close to $1,000 a ton, in my experience. So as asphalt becomes more and more valuable there's going to be a higher degree of interest in making the asphalt products last longer. And you do that by modifying it with other additives, including SBS and SEBS. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
That makes a lot of sense. When I was ... Okay, I'm ... That makes a lot of sense. Like I said, starting out with Malarkey the having the SBS shingles ... And that was a long time ago, I don't want to tell everybody how long ago that was that I was starting out there, but that was part of the whole Class 4 impact resistance, it was part of the 100 mile per hour, the Dade County approvals for wind. And we are seeing crazier weather now than, it seems like, ever in the past. So Bud what are you seeing with the importance of this modified asphalt in creating these performance products to really deal with hail, and wind, and the extreme weather?

Bud Polston:
Right. Well as Jim said it's not that some of these technologies haven't been around for a while, we're just seeing them really take off in popularity because ... I live in Texas and for four out of six years we had tremendous hailstorms. And you'd redo a school and then a year later it would come back through, and so insurance companies are asking, and architects are asking, for product that will help for the roof to last longer. 
In some of the newer technologies for single-ply, and some of those things, they had an appeal because of the insulation. But what we've seen is that as we've progressed, and we put inhibitors into the asphalt years ago that made it smoke less, and there have been studies that show that the environment ... We're doing things now to take care of the environment but all of those things, that we've done for years, and years, and years to our planet, we're now seeing some of those repercussions in severe weather. So you mentioned the Class 4 hail rating that some of the residential shingle producers have come up with these Class 4 shingles and we're now seeing a new certification that's called the VSH, very severe hail, rating. So we have to have these new products to meet these new needs in the roofing industry. So I think that that's ... 
We've had type 2, which was a waterproofing for roadworks and the pillars that go into the ground for bridges. We've had the type 3 and 4 that goes up on the roof. And now we have this whole array of polymer modified that we're able to make, that really is future-looking. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I see that that is going to be so important. And I love the part that you talk about with redundancy and sustainability too because, I mean let's be honest, so many people out there would say, "Well a built-up roof or asphalt that's not environmental," but really when you start looking at the longevity and the durability, and the redundancy, of these kind of roofs they last a long time and then can be re-coated. And so-

Bud Polston:
Right. And that's a whole nother area that we're investigating with Jim and with his team, is the whole how do you rejuvenate a roof? What are the properties that you can go and in ... Do you really need to do a tear off or can we fix some flashings and fix a particular issue, and then rejuvenate that roof and give it another 10 to 15 year life, versus having to rip it off and put a whole new roof on? I mean, that saves the building, that saves the building owner, that saves our landfills. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I just think that is going to be so critical for the future. And especially as we're looking at if it can withstand the weather and it can live a long life, and then be repurposed again instead of being torn off, that makes such a difference. So Jim what are you seeing in that direction on the sustainability but also the longevity, some of the new things that are coming out in order to keep those roofs on the roof?

Jim Nevin:
Well I think that certainly what Bud mentioned, as far as reducing landfill burdens by tearing down roofs, is important. On low-pitch or flat roofs the built-up roof is still a very good product. And it's much less expensive to just go in there with new technology and overcoat it, and rejuvenate the existing surface, as long as the roof can stand the weight. That's the cheapest and most environmentally responsible technique for waterproofing a building. And we do that. 
Our roofing products are not just about asphalt and polymer. We have a lot of other technology. We have technology that allows us to prime areas where there's silicone, for example, and overlay that with our asphalt product and have it adhere. That's always been a major problem in the industry because adhering to silicone is very difficult and it just creates areas where you get easy uplift, and bubbles. It just doesn't stick and so we've solved that problem. We have rejuvenating additives in our product. We have anti-strip additives, so aggregates will hold better to the surface. We can do a number of different physical property products, softening point, and penetration, and things like that, flowability, application temperatures. And then we can also make other types of coatings.
So you have the environmental impact, in terms of not tearing down a roof. Then you have other responsible environmental issues, like the urban heat island effect, where the reflectance of different roof surfaces is very important, where you have lower VOCs involved. And so there's a lot more to it than just meets the eye. It's a very complicated environmentally sensitive and responsible product line to manufacture. 
And then you have the warranty situation. The primary objective of a roof is to keep the water out, the elements out, but beyond that now you have vegetative roofs and things like that. So you have roofs where people put solar panels on, you have roofs that are used for entertaining. I mean, there's all kinds of things. And then you get to the more pitched roofs and you have other issues with that. You get into companies that make the peel-and-stick membranes, and roofing tiles, and shingles, and things like that. So there's a lot to it for sure. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. And I think it's interesting too is you look at this with ... Working with several different companies we've referred to it, a lot of the times, as rooftop acreage. How many acres of roofs are there out there that can provide ROI back to the building owners, to the community around it, all these different things? And so I would like to ... I think that's really where asphalt has and will continue to play such an important role. And we talked about it at the beginning Bud but the importance of the waterproofing benefits of asphalt, and especially modified asphalts. What are you seeing with the vegetative roofs and also, it's like Jim brought up, solar panels? I mean, there's just so much going on up there. 

Bud Polston:
Right. Well and back to one of the things that Jim said, that I thought was important, is a lot of people think of an asphalt built-up roof as the old black roof. Well as technology has evolved you've got reflective cap sheets, you've got reflective granules, you've even got top coats that can go over an asphalted property to give some of those reflective properties that you want to have. But when you think about, as you said, the acres, the space on top of a roof, walkability is key. Being able to handle the wear and tear of maintenance going up there. And really a fully adhered asphalted FORTIFIED roof there isn't a better roof on the market to withstand that. When you look at the single-ply roofs, I mean, a 90-mil single-ply isn't going to hold up to a FORTIFIED built-up system. 
And when you look at vegetative roofs a lot of these petroleum ... Single-plies give off traces of arsenic and other things, as they have runoff water but if you're using asphalted that comes from the Earth, align the planters and things like that up there on the vegetative roof, you know that the vegetative can still live in that type of environment. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I think that's key. That's key. I think we're going to see more and more vegetative roofs out there, along with solar arrays. And that redundancy of the multiple-ply roofs in BUR, built-up roofing, is going to continue. I think it's going to be one of those things that people are going to be looking at more and more as we expect more coming out of our roofs. Jim what are you seeing with that? I mean, you're involved with a lot of different places, so what are you seeing maybe from the demands of the building owners and of manufacturers who are looking at really having these redundant roof systems?

Jim Nevin:
Well I don't know that there's that much changing, in terms of what they're looking for, other than everybody's looking for extended durability, in terms of the effectiveness of the roof surface. Obviously price is important or cost. Architects are looking ... There's always been the low temperature factor, everybody's looking ... I would say increasing the boundary of the effective temperature zone down to ... It used to always be 40 degrees Fahrenheit, now they're trying to get down to 20, in terms of how cold you can use a product. And then how it's effected by weather conditions. Obviously with the Miami-Dade standards that came into effect 30 years ago. So weather conditions, cost are probably the top ones always, in terms of performance and what architects, and engineers, are looking for. 
But beyond that there's the political side of it and what that's driving. Things like, I mentioned urban heat island, so reflectance and emittance properties of the coatings; the VOC levels of the coatings. I mean, these are forcing companies more into like asphalt emulsion technology versus hot mix or solvent-based asphalt products. Solvent-based coatings were, and still are, popular but they're getting less and less popular because of the VOCs that are emitted when they're applied. Hot asphalts fume and the fuming creates problems as well. So no matter what you do you're going to have a problem. And asphalt emulsions just don't work as well. I'm a big fan of the hot mop SBS modified asphalt because it's a product that lasts forever almost, if it's done right. There are a lot of ... 
Another one that's been used in the roofing is the ability to use recycled ... Or increase recycled content in your product. It's less important in roofing because the roof structures are so important that they can't afford a loss in performance, just to get rid of some waste stream material. In roadways it's very common GTR is used, but it's also used in roofing and so are polyethylene recycled bottles, and things like that. So there are other ... Old ground up shingles are used still in both product lines. 
So you got to kind of tie all these things together when you think about what your formulation's going to be. And from the engineering side, from the innovation side, from the political side, and the environmental side. All these things come together to create the final formula that a company's going to use. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's good. With that in mind, really seeing the needs, knowing that it's coming, and these amazing modified asphalts that have been around but are only getting better because of innovations like the two of you, what you're doing at United Asphalts, so Bud let's talk just a little bit about what United Asphalts is doing. I know you have had some great releases, some great innovations coming out, including packaging, which is so important right now for labor savings. Can you talk to us about just what's been happening the last year at United Asphalts in innovations and what you're bringing to the market?

Bud Polston:
Sure. Well the thing we're most excited about is our ENDURAflex SBS High Temperature Modified Asphalt. And as Jim was just saying, that SEBS roof is really one of the best that you can put up, as far as longevity and durability, dependability, all those things. So we launched our SEBS last year, in March right before COVID hit. So we are doing a relaunch currently with you guys, just making sure to get the word out there. But something that sets us apart, Heidi, from our competition is that we were talking about how we maybe push the envelope with packaging. 
Currently the standard 100-pound keg that you would think of with a built-up roof, the guys take that big 100-pound keg and they carry it over to the kettle, they get out their ax, they pull off the wrapper, and they chop off the tin bottom, and they cut up in chunks, and they load up the kettle. So we know that those 50-pound baby kegs, that are wrapped with the tin bottom, have been very popular because you don't have the heavy lifting. I had a contractor saying that their insurance liked it better because of the issues with picking up heavy materials, so the 50 pounds helped. 
And then we were like, "Okay. Well then you've got at this ripped up trash and if you're chopping you've got these chunks. Wouldn't it be great if we had a mechanism that would deliver a block of asphalt that you could just pick up and you could put into the kettle, and it would melt?" And so we came up with our FastPack Box design, it's got a quick release. The box is fully recyclable. It's a thick cardboard with a liner on the inside, so that you don't have the asphalt sticking in. The contractors that we have used to test have loved it. And one of the benefits is that there's no plastic wrap around it. So there are 50 pound blocks out there but they have a plastic wrapper on them and that can coke up your kettle, overtime it leaves the film. And then if you live in Texas, like I do, you get some of those 50 pounders and they're wrapped in plastic, before you know it they fuse together in 100 degree weather and you've got a 200 block of asphalt. But with our FastPack mechanism that would never happen.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. And I love ... It's age old, right? I mean, built-up roofing and kettles, and everything's age old. And you're able to bring something new just by understanding the pain points on the roof. I mean, you've been doing it consistently, first with the 50-pound keg and now with this. Bud how is that research with you working with the contractors? I just think that's so impressive, how you are making changes for them. 

Bud Polston:
Well and I think because our owner, Brad, has been in the industry for so long and one of our strategic alliances is contractors, that's the person using the product. And we're small enough that we still have those relationships where we go out and we meet with the contractor to make sure that things are working the way that they should. And it's working. We have contractors that specify our products specifically. In the olden days you'd have 100 contractors in a market that were running kettles and of course now it's a smaller amount of contractors that do hot work, and so we're really able to focus in and listen to what they have to say, and then turn around and do improvements. They say time is money, and if you're not chopping asphalt and you're not picking up scraps, then you're making more money.

Heidi Ellsworth:
Yeah. I think that is really ... Because right now, when we are looking at labor savings, we're looking at the COVID and the social distancing, the easier you can make it on the roof for the contractors, for the craftsmen and women who are putting it together, that means money in people's pockets. 

Bud Polston:
Right. Sure. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
And safety. I love the safety factors of it also. What you're talking about with instead of the heavy and being able to really think about the people up there, and making their life a little bit easier. 
Talk a little bit too just about ENDURA. Just I want to make sure that everybody understands where you're going with this product; how it's available; and what you're hearing back from the market because it did launch last year, midst of COVID, but what's some of the feedback? 

Bud Polston:
Well so the contractors that have used it have loved the performance. You'll see more SEBS on military bases and things like that, so they're a little bit ahead of the curve of, "We need to put up the best roof to last forever." You're spending government money, they want to make sure they get that best quality that they can, and so that's where we've seen the biggest push for the SEBS product. But now you're starting to see it crossover into data centers. You've got millions of dollars of computers underneath your roof, you need something that's going to last and be water tight and a built-up roof. And SEBS ENDURAflex built-up roof is one of the best roofs on the market. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Wow. So Jim what are you seeing out there? Just as we come to the end of this I'm curious, since you're working in a lot of different areas in this market, what are you seeing from ENDURAflex? 

Jim Nevin:
Well very positive. It's a product that ... It took years to develop. I mean, we have been working on this for a long, long time. We have solved a lot of problems along the way. One in particular was the durability of the polymer dispersion in the asphalt. So this is a very well dispersed and [solvated 00:32:45] polymer that doesn't separate nearly to the extent that most products in the marketplace do. It's performance properties are outstanding, in terms of elongation, tenacity, elastic recovery, tensile strength, adhesion, cold temperature properties are great. And we think this is going to be a 30 plus year solution to built-up roofing. 
And one thing I meant to mention and forgot before was another important consideration in all these products is energy. Energy consumption and savings is one of the most critical factors to consider. With United Asphalts we have been working very hard towards creating products that require less energy to use than ones currently on the market. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
That's really interesting. So you're really hitting it from all sides.

Jim Nevin:
You have to. You have to. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. 

Jim Nevin:
But you just start thinking about the different aspects of modern society that are important and just list them down, and then what are we doing with our products to help those causes so that we can attract more and more potential customers to the idea of using our products? 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Right. I love that. So Bud the contractors out there who are listening right now, all of our listeners, besides, obviously, the directory and information, and everything that's on RoofersCoffeeShop about United Asphalts, talk a little bit about how can they get ahold of you? What's the process to start buying this? Give them a little bit of what's the next steps?

Bud Polston:
Sure. All of our roofing products are available through all regional and national distribution chains, the big guys down to some of the regional guys have access to any of our roofing products. What was the rest of that question Heidi?

Heidi Ellsworth:
Just basically what we're looking at is get into your distributors and ask for this, because they're not going to find this at every ... You need to make sure you're asking for this type of product, the modified asphalts, and also the packaging. 

Bud Polston:
Right. And you can go to UnitedAsphalts.com and you can see the new video of our FastPack product, as well as ENDURAflex. We also have independent reps that are located throughout the United States. There's a map on our website, so you can actually get someone local if you want to talk to somebody local, or you can always reach out to me, I'm on the website as well. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love that because sometimes it's easy to hear these things and here we have these discussions, and then people are like, "Okay, great, how do I get it?" But the fact that it's very easy, going to the website, finding the manufacturers reps. Plus we also have all that information and how to get ahold of Bud on RoofersCoffeeShop, on the Directory page. 
So, gentlemen, thank you. Any last thoughts about what roofing contractors and really making sure that they're getting the best of the best with modified asphalts? Bud you want to start? 

Jim Nevin:
I didn't hear you say Bud but I'd like to say, before we get off, that one of the unique aspects that United Asphalts can bring to the table is we just recently completed the construction of a pilot plant. And the pilot plant is a polymer modified asphalt production plant where we can operate with anything up to about, I think, 200 gallons. And that's unusual, most companies they're either doing something in a pail or they're doing something in a gigantic tank. And what this enables us to do, at United Asphalts, is to create a sample size that a customer can use out in the field with something unique. And so they can come to us, not just to buy a truckload of product or 20 skids of it, or whatever, but they can actually come to us with an idea for ... This could be whoever, a contractor, it could be another company wanting private label business, but we have the ability to do that. And we don't have to go into full production in order to try a new idea. 
And I think that's very, very important to point out because it's very expensive to produce huge batches of product and it's very expensive to see those things fail. And we can go the intermediate step, in between the laboratory and full production. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
And it's so consultative, so working together with people in the industry to find solutions for unique situations. To have that kind of opportunity in small batches, that's awesome. 

Jim Nevin:
I think that was a great segue for us to end with, which is the investments that we've done in our plant in creating this ability to do small batches and sample batches, as we look at the future with restorative type of products, with rejuvenation type of products or, as Jim mentioned, looking at putting recycled materials in. You're not at risk to, like you said, have a big tank full of product that doesn't perform the way you thought it was going to. So we're positioning ourselves not only to produce our own products for the future but also to partner with some of these other folks for smart products for the future. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
I love that. I love that. Thank you gentlemen. As always I'm excited about the future of asphalt and thank you for everything you're doing to bring it, to really bring this type of roofing respect to the world overall. So I know that's a really big statement but it sometimes feels that way, that we need everybody doing this kind of research and development, bringing these kind of products to market so we have long, sustainable, awesome protection for our buildings. So thank you so much. 

Jim Nevin:
It's our pleasure. 

Bud Polston:
Thanks Heidi. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
Thank you. 

Jim Nevin:
Thank you. 

Heidi Ellsworth:
And, like I said before, if you want to find out more about United Asphalts please visit RoofersCoffeeShop, you will find their directory there, you'll find videos there, you'll find all kinds of information. And it'll get you right over to Bud and you can figure out how asphalt's going to solve some of your problems in your roofing. So thank you so much, thank you gentlemen for being here, and thank you all for listening. Have a great day. 

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