Pros and Cons of Counteroffers - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Tony and Kristin of Hi-Peak Staffing Solutions. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Hello and welcome to another episode of Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. I'm your host, Karen Edwards. And today I am sitting down with Tony and Kristin Hi-Peak Staffing Solutions to talk about the pros and cons of counter offers. Tony, Kristin, welcome. It's great to have you here today.

Kristin Case: Thank you.

Tony Case: Hi, Karen. Thanks for having us.

Karen Edwards: Sure, so before we dive into this really interesting topic, I'm really excited to talk to you both about this. If you could just introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about you, that would be fantastic. Tony, why don't you start?

Tony Case: Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, thanks, Karen, for having us. We are excited to about the topic. We've actually seen a little bit more in our industry this year in the past few months. So we're excited to kind of get through it. My name is Tony Case. I am the co-owner of High Peak Staffing with my beautiful wife, Kristen. We are now entering into our fourth year of business owners. We are super excited about

Kristin Case: Thank you.

Tony Case: The future, we're excited about our growth internally and the growth of our

Kristin Case: I am Kristin Case. I am co-owners of High Peak Staffing with. Tony, the company is going into its fourth year. I'm a 10 year roofing recruiter. I've been a recruiter for about 15 years, 10 years in the roofing industry. We've had some awesome, exciting things happen at High Peak. We're up to eight employees now as of 2025 and growing. So we're just loving it and loving what's happening in the roofing industry. Outside of that, I also participate with the National Women in Roofing. I'm on a recruiting committee with them and I'm really excited for National Women in Roofing Day at the IRE as well as speaking with you guys when we're there.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. wow. This is great. Congratulations on having eight team members and the growth. mean, there's such a need, right? And finding talent is not easy. And having folks like you who are experts and can take the time to really do all that research makes it so much easier for contractors and the industry overall. So thank you both. OK, so let's get started and talk about what a counter offer is.

Kristin Case: Thank you.

Karen Edwards: And why employers use that method. don't know, Kristen, do you want to start us?

Kristin Case: Yeah, absolutely. essentially what a counter offer is, when they, it's the company's response to an employee's decision to leave. you know, either it's unknown or known that they might be out there looking for new opportunities and the goal is to retain them. So if an offer is made by an employer to an employee who has received another job offer, they're going to try to come up with a counter offer or a better offer. for the, to persuade them in staying.

Karen Edwards: Okay, you know, that's interesting. It's kind of like that last minute scramble. You don't want to lose a person. So you're trying to say, well, if you stay, you know, I could offer this, this and this. I, Tony, I believe you have like a sports background, right? And, and in my mind, I'm thinking of that, like, you know, teams make trades and who has the best offer. And what, do you see happening out there in the industry in terms of, of counteroffers?

Tony Case: Correct. Yeah, I mean, that's an excellent example and it's very relative. think ultimately what we're seeing is we are seeing more counter offers because of labor shortages, because of talent lack lacking, you know, whatever that looks like, we're seeing a lot more counter offers. And what we're noticing is that a lot of the root causes don't necessarily change. We're going to get it and dive into that a little bit more later on in the podcast here. But I would say.

Counteroffers that are happening are more from desperation than they are from, I had an eye-popping moment and I understand that I'm gonna lose good talent or talented people if I don't change my ways as a leader. And those are the things that we're seeing. If it is truly where a leader recognizes, I might be doing this the wrong way, I'm gonna seek out how to do it better. Those are the true changes that happen.

If not, it's really just a kind of last ditch effort. I can't lose this star quarterback. I can't lose my most productive wide receiver in that sports analogy. The desperation comes through and sometimes that's not the right way to approach that.

Karen Edwards: So what kind of things are you seeing being offered in a counter offer? Is it typically money? Is there more to it?

Tony Case: Typically, yeah, yeah. mean, great question again. It's, you know, sometimes it's, really to address the reason that person's leaving. And if you're not listening as that leader, if you're not taking in that feedback, it's going to come to a monetary aspect. It's like, well, here's, here's $2 more an hour. Don't leave. Here's $5,000 more on the year. Don't leave. Some of those are, can save a relationship. Some of them are not even close. A lot of the time.

It's the counter offer has nothing to do with money. It might be lack of leadership. It might be, you know, the hours that you're putting in. It might be the lack of responsibility that you're not receiving. So a lot of these things are happening, you know, from root causes that are not being addressed. And they're just like, like any of us as Americans, there's a problem. Let's throw money at it. You know, a lot of those things do not fix the root cause of those problems. And so typically when we're seeing, you know, the components

Karen Edwards: Ha ha.

Kristin Case: Thank

Tony Case: Of an actual counter offer. You got to dive deep. got to understand from the root cause how to address that. And sometimes it's not a monetary decision.

Karen Edwards: Wow, so that's probably part of the reason why we've got a stat here that 80 % of employees who accept a counter offer still end up leaving within six months. Kristin, maybe you could talk a little bit about what you're seeing in that regard.

Kristin Case: Yeah, actually, this is a really big one for us. So we have something called RFL, reason for leaving when we're talking to candidates. So I don't, I'm never satisfied with the answer of, I'm just looking for a better opportunity. Who isn't, right? Like who isn't looking to better themselves, whether it's with their current employer or a new employer. I really try and I try to get my team to really dive into that.

Karen Edwards: Right?

Kristin Case: Are you looking for a new opportunity because you saw my job posting and it was $20,000 more than what you're making right now? Are you looking for a new opportunity because you and your family really want to move to Charlotte, North Carolina? Are you looking for a new opportunity because the owner maybe is getting elderly or maybe has passed away and the company's selling? We really want to dive into those reasons because if we don't, figure out why that person, that candidate may accept the initial counter offer, but usually the company is not solving what the problem is. So why 80 % of people leave within the first six months of accepting a counter offer is because money doesn't solve all problems. Usually there is a reason like what Tony had mentioned before, the root causes a toxic work environment, you know, working, you know,  15, 18 hour days, working weekends. Maybe there's been a change of ownership and the morale is down. There's a lot of other reasons. So yes, the initial 10 to 30 % salary increase that they may get on the initial counter offer isn't necessarily gonna solve the reasons why they were looking in the beginning, if that makes sense.

Karen Edwards: It does, yeah. this has happened, I'm sure, to people listening to this podcast right now where you do move on and you give your resignation and the employer comes back with, what can I do to make you stay? And if they throw money at it, as you said, Tony, I think that, you know, that affects their trust and their relationship with that current employer, right? You're going to give me how much more a year? Well, then I'm going to stay.

But the environment hasn't changed, right? The problem hasn't changed. So could that be considered a pro of a counter offer, is helping an employer identify what issues they might need to be working on?

Tony Case: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you kind of like we previous stated, if it is truly an eye popping moment where a leader realizes I'm not only going to lose this talented person, but I might lose multiple people because of the way I'm doing things. And they truly put effort in and time in and have a plan and work that plan to change. That's a very positive thing. And it could be one of the best pros of a counter offer. Like we said, 80 % of the time that doesn't happen.

It's mostly, we're in a jam, we can't afford to lose you. We can't afford to lose top talent. So whatever you need, you can have. The thing that Kristen was kind of leaning towards is the trust issues. And so the trust that comes out of that, now you may or may not have a target on your back. You might leave a bad taste in your mouth with other people in your scenario. Let's say there's five project managers on your team.

Karen Edwards: Mm-hmm.

Tony Case: And you're kind of the one that accepted a counter offer, they might get wind or find out, you know, the roofing industry is a small world. They might find out that you're getting $5,000 more than they are. And then they're going to be, you know, the ones that are technically trying to leave or maybe looking for outside opportunities. the...

Karen Edwards: Yeah.

Kristin Case: Well, another thing I will say on that is also when it comes to trust is why did it take me to put in my notice for you guys to finally acknowledge my value and my worth? That's a big one that we get. So when we are identifying this as recruiters, always, know, as much as I want to make a placement and get a new candidate to my employers, I always say, is this about money? And if it is, turn around.

And go to your boss and tell them you were not actively looking, but a recruiter out there has approached you with an opportunity and you don't even want to look at it. But it is so tempting because the salary and the benefits and the perks, maybe there's like an extra three days of vacation or, you know, they offer different types of perks, like a gym membership or whatever it may be. Turn around and they'll say things like, I'm too scared to let them know. And I'll just say, tell them that you're being approached, that you didn't apply for this job.

That's because it happens all the time. approach candidates all the time. That's a big part of our job is not to wait for them to apply for jobs and tell them like, hey, it's really hard for me to look away when this opportunity is, you know, staring at me. A lot of times if you're working for a good company who values you, they'll say to you, okay, Jim, hey, maybe not today. We can't offer you that increase, but let's get a 90 day plan going or let's figure out something in the next six months and get it in writing for you.

Karen Edwards: Right.

Kristin Case: All they really care about is like that value. They want to feel that value add that you've heard them. Now, if I tell them all the time, if the company turns around and says, Hey man, I'm sorry, we cannot do anything about that right now. Well, then you have your answer, right? You can either decide to go off and interview or you can stay where you're at, but there shouldn't be any,

There shouldn't be any repercussions if you go to your employer and say, Hey, look, there's opportunities out there and recruiters are reaching out to me and it's really hard to look away. I want to stay here. I love this company, but is there anything that we can do to put me on a path for success? You know, and, a lot of times my client, they'll call me back and go, thank you so much for telling me that I got that increase or I'm working towards a, you know, a better comp plan. I really appreciate it. And then, Hey, go on your merry way. I'm happy that.

We were able to do that because I don't want to get to counter offer stage. They're painful for all parties involved, right?

Karen Edwards: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, from an employer's perspective, when is it ever worth making a counter offer? Or is it not even a counter offer? Is it just that conversation and that reason for leaving when you do get that resignation? How should an employer handle that? Not immediately go to money.

Tony Case: I think it's a critical decision that you have to make internally to yourself. As that leader, you have to look at, know, if my employee is trying to leave and especially a high performing asset that we need, that is going to be either difficult or impossible to replace, you have to, again, approach those things as, what am I doing on a day-to-day basis? How can I do this? You know, a very common thing is adding in, if you don't have already, that performance review that Kristen was just speaking about.

You know, what does this look like on a performance view? Because then you also need to have that employee evaluate you, how you're doing as a leader. And the best ones out there do this. They understand that I'm not only evaluating you, you're evaluating me. How can I be better as your leader? How can I be better as the owner of this business? As the, you know, running this operating unit? How can I be better? How can I make your job better? And ultimately, when those things happen,

We're going to find out if it is the root cause is money or the root cause is a leadership problem. One thing that we don't really talk about in our industry that much is company morale and company culture. What does that look like and how can I improve those things if that's a root cause of this reason for you looking outside? So yeah, I think it's critical. You have to make that decision and then again, make a plan and work that plan every single day if you're going to do this.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. I'm so glad you said company morale and culture because I've been sitting here thinking, you know, we get so caught up in, okay, we're a roofing company, we're a roofing business. This is what we need to do. We need to install roofs. We need to do, and you're so focused on getting the invoices out, getting the payments in, getting the job installed that you don't often stop to think about is everybody happy? Right? Is everybody being,

Tony Case: Okay.

Karen Edwards: You know, compensated as they should be and doing that internal look, I think is going to be so important. So very, very well said.

Tony Case: Absolutely.

Kristin Case: I I'll piggyback on that one too. Like I, I cannot tell you how many times I've talked to candidates that say that they don't get reviews and not even compensation reviews, just like performance reviews. A lot of people out there don't know if they're doing a good job, you know, until their other either talk to or let go. But on the day to day, you know, people like to know, Hey, kick, kick butt.

You did a great job on that, know, things like that, that brings up that morale. And then it also makes them feel like they are a good culture fit because they're doing something good. That's a really big one. Like when I get the feedback from my candidates and then when I go to a new client that we're working with, I always try to ensure that they're giving some type of either quarterly or annual review, you know, performance or anything like. Or just our listeners, you know, because people want to know if they're doing a good job at the end of the day. And that when they do feel like they're doing a good job, they don't, they're not looking because they love where they work. And that's a big reason to stay.

Karen Edwards: Right. So, you know, that just makes me think that as recruiters, you guys are probably very careful about, you know, we're not just going to work with any employer out there because you want to make sure that you're sending something, somebody to a place that's going to be a long-term career growth opportunity for them. Right, Kristen?

Kristin Case: No. Absolutely. It is so important. You know, sometimes we do turn away business and it's, never liked to, but sometimes it's just not a fit. And I also maybe don't feel comfortable sending candidates there because I don't want to take someone from a current job where they have a paycheck and send them somewhere where it's going to be doom and gloom. You know, I want to send them somewhere where they're excited. There's better opportunities, perks, growth.

Growth and advancement, upward mobility, all of those things that I would be looking for if I was on the market. That's where I want to send them and that's why so many of our clients are such all stars and do that. But yes, there are times where you can't work with everyone. And we do try our best to vet. And then sometimes at the end of the day, it's just not a good fit.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And Tony, I'd like to ask you, if an employee is taking a new role and they turn in their resignation and they get that counter offer, what are some things, how should they handle that? What kind of questions should they ask? Or should they just be like red flag counter offer? I don't even want to be here anymore.

Tony Case: No, that's great question. It happens pretty often. You know, I would as a recruiter that sees these very often, my advice to an employee would be, does this counteroffer come with any contingencies? Is it dependent upon something else? You know, there's a number of a laundry list of different factors that could play into this where this could stagnate your growth. This could be if you get a counteroffer, you're potentially looking outside. You can look at this and say,

All right, you're gonna give me a $5,000 raise. Does this now limit my next promotion? I've been here for 10 years. I've been in the same role for 10 years, with not very many bonus opportunities or increases in pay. What does it look like now for my potential growth? These are questions that you must ask and you have to get out in the open. I would also go back to kind of what we've been talking about is these are the root causes of my decision to leave.

Are any of these things going to change? You have to identify them because if they're not, an increase in pay is not going to change your work environment, is not going to change that toxic work environment or the hours that you're working. If those are the things that are making you unhappy, they're not being identified by an additional paycheck. So I think that it's super important to identify those, have the conversation and see if they're contingent upon those. And if they're not, you're not going to be happy with another, with a different offer with the same exact job.

Karen Edwards: Right.

Tony Case: Again, that target on your back, potentially the morale in your office going down or on the site going down. So I think a lot of those things have to be answered before the conversation can start. Okay, I'm staying.

Karen Edwards: Yeah.

Kristin Case: So we have an awesome vantage point here, or we do have an awesome advantage here, because we create those bonds with the candidates before they start. So when a candidate is maybe interviewing at a company, my advice to candidates and employers is ask that question. Why are you looking? I know people are nervous to answer that, but really think about why you're really looking and why you're interviewing for that position.

Karen Edwards: Mm-hmm.

Kristin Case: Because it will really help at the end of the day when it comes to accepting or rejecting a counter offer. There's been so many times where the company has sent a counter offer, but the candidate, we've already done our due diligence on why they're looking and those things are not going to change, you know, the work environment or whatever it may be. So they're already like mentally checked out. But I think that's such an important thing for companies to know is like, it's, it's okay to ask people why they're looking because

Karen Edwards: Right.

Kristin Case: If they are looking for a long term upward mobility and growth with a company, but you know that your company cannot offer that because you're maybe a small mom and pop shop and you guys are very happy where you're at, this person probably isn't the right fit for you guys. Because they're probably going to leave in a year because they didn't get what they were looking for. You know what I mean? So it's important that companies and employees

Karen Edwards: Yeah.

Kristin Case: Are comfortable discussing that.

Karen Edwards: For sure, it's easy to be dazzled by dollars, right? And you have to really take that step back and think about all those things. I just, Tony, Kristen, this has been a fabulous conversation. And I hope that those of, if you're listening to this podcast and you're seeing some things that sound familiar to you, feel free to reach out to Tony and Kristen at High Peak Staffing.

Kristin Case: Mm-hmm.

Karen Edwards: Solutions. They've got a full directory on Rufus Coffee Shop with their contact information. you know, maybe, you'll find your next perfect, perfect opportunity by reaching out or maybe they will reach out to you. You never know. So make sure your LinkedIn profile is up to date, right? Awesome. Well, Tony, thank you, Kristen. Thank you. It was a delight to have you here today. Thanks for being here.

Kristin Case: You never know. Absolutely. Thank you so much. appreciate it.

Tony Case: Thanks to Mr. for being here.

Outro: And thank you all for listening to this episode of Roofing Road Trips from Roofer's Coffee Shop. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and we hope to see you on a future episode. See you next time. Bye