How to Win the Race to the Roofing Sale - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Ryan Eves of RoofSnap and Jim Mallers of EverConnect and Socius Marketing. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So, fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello, and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and today we are here to talk about how to win the race for roofing sales. We all know how important it is right now to be the first, to be there for those consumers. So, we asked our friends at EverCommerce who have a slew of solutions, great companies, to come and talk to us to really talk about what tech you need in order to win that sale quickly. So, I want to welcome Ryan Eves and Jim Mallers to the show. Welcome, gentlemen.

Jim Mallers: Thanks for having us, Heidi.

Ryan Eves: Hi, nice to meet you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Nice to meet you. I'm really excited. I love sales. I love talking about technology. So, this is the perfect combination. Let's start out with some introductions. So, first of all, Jim, can you introduce yourself and tell us what you do with EverCommerce?

Jim Mallers: Sure. I've been with EverCommerce for a little over three and a half years. I come to EverCommerce having worked for a building products manufacture before. For the last 20 years or so, I've worked across multiple industries supporting different businesses' growth and transformation as a strategic marketer and or a sales leader. Been in the home service industry for about 10 years now.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow, awesome. Thank you so much for being here. I'm excited about this. Ryan, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do.

Ryan Eves: Hi everyone. I'm Ryan Eves, the product lead at RoofSnap. Relatively new to the home service industry, but I do bring 15 years of experience in product management design. I'm obsessed with making really complex things super simple.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Nice.

Ryan Eves: And I've done that with a lot of startups and a lot of different technology and the latest being dabbling in artificial intelligence. And I was really drawn to RoofSnap because it solves a very tangible problem of not having to climb so many ladders and it's been doing this for a really long time. And I think all that history, there's a lot of potential to unlock with new technologies that are emerging today.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There is, and it's an exciting time to see how we're taking manual work, manual experiences and being able to automate it to make it simple. I like that. Make it big into simple. So, you know what? Just to level set here too, Jim, maybe you could start out and just talk to us about the different companies which are in EverCommerce.

Jim Mallers: EverCommerce is a solution portfolio. So, we have right about 50 different solutions in our portfolio. 35 of those solutions are dedicated to the home services industry. Obviously, inside of the home services there's a pretty big focus on exterior replacement projects. So, a handful of those are specifically dedicated to those home improvement contractors in the roofing space. Some of the ones that your audience might know is obviously RoofSnap, EverConnect, Socius Marketing, MarketSharp, Improveit 360 and there's a host of others, Guild Quality and more. So, that's who EverCommerce is.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Great companies. Everybody's right now going, oh yeah, I love them. So, let's start out a little bit high level here. And, Ryan, I would love to begin with you just to talk about the importance of roofing technology stacks or tech stacks. It's such a buzzword and contractors, some of them are already way down the road and some of them are like, what is a tech stack? So, can you maybe talk a little bit about the importance and how that goes into the whole sales and winning that sale?

Ryan Eves: The tech stack is key to that speed element that we've talked about. Not only does it automate a lot of those complex processes, it allows you to optimize how quickly you can get to your customers, making sure that you're that first to contact. I actually recently went through a project at my house, great learning experience and I had three different roofers come, three different paces, three different approaches, all at different levels of what I call professionalism. And I think technology provides a way to just streamline all that stuff to just level you up while also reducing the workload significantly. And that's a big competitive advantage that I still think is very ripe for the picking out there in the roofing space.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It really is. There's still so much. And Jim, you've been involved in the home improvement industry, you've really seen how this comes. How important is that tech stack to sales in particular?

Jim Mallers: It's incredibly important. I think about it like, the more that you enable your sales team or even your pre-sales team with technology, the more capable they are of winning the appointment, getting the actual demos, actually be able to walk through that threshold and have that demo and then closing the deal. And what we find is that not only is the technology helping to schedule and nurture those appointments and get those demos, but it's helping to shorten that sales timeline as well. So, all of a sudden I'm able to run more sales, get more wins and then my problem becomes the ultimate problem of labor. [inaudible 00:05:14] solved that yet, but it gets to the point where that's our only problem and that's great.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That is so true. So, one of the things we talk about a lot on RoofersCoffeeShop is the risk of being left behind. And we see this a lot with different roofing companies that maybe are older generations who just do not see the importance of technology. Ryan, what are some of the risks for those companies that are not adopting this kind of technology, especially within the sales process?

Ryan Eves: I think it's very tangible, like how quickly can you respond? We hear a lot from a lot of our contractors out there that even after the first 48 hours, they end up seeing a significant raise in the amount of cancellations they have. And then, if three days go by, they basically expect half of the people to just drop them. So, when you're looking at a lot of businesses, they're taking one to seven days to really land that first conversation. There's some other that can actually get to a proposal in a day and RoofSnap is one of those capabilities that you can say, here's a lead and here's a proposal all figured out within the same day. And that's going to be a huge advantage in terms of just building that trust and that confidence that you're going to be there at the job with that homeowner. Also-

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Go ahead. I was going to say to that, because that really hits home to me is that, as a consumer I want to talk to some, when I'm ready to do it, I'm ready to do it. This isn't like, it's not as much tire kicking as it used to be in the old days. You've already done your research online, you know what you want. So, if they can't respond quickly. So, really, for the contractors, the risk is if they don't optimize their lead response time, that's when they're going to be in big trouble right, Ryan?

Ryan Eves: Absolutely. Customer satisfaction is key. We build a technology for the contractor, but really we're trying to build a technology that makes it easier for you to connect with that homeowner and to build that trust and reach them really quickly. Modern response times are going to be measured in seconds to minutes, not days, especially in these deal cycles. People need these jobs when they come up. They're not planning and choosing and they're not browsing. They're going, I have a problem, I need it fixed. Please get here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And, oh, go ahead, Jim.

Jim Mallers: I'll just say, anecdotally it's interesting, talking about the obstacles to adoption. And as Ryan's talked about this, there's just this conversation I had yesterday that just keeps running through my head. And the conversation I had was with a supplier, a distributor of building products in the exterior space. And they were talking about how they're trying to enable their customer base to do more with technology, knowing that they don't have any skin in the game. Their job is to just sell the materials to the contractors. And she goes, we can give them all these things, but at the end of the day, the number one thing I hear back is, but I don't really want to grow. I don't really, growth isn't really what I'm looking. I'm comfortable where I am.

And as we talked about the thing was like, well, we know that it's probably pretty unlikely that you don't want to grow or that you're truly comfortable where you are, but change is hard and making that decision to adopt something new, implement something new, kind of stay the course, take the path and implement it so that I am realizing the benefits of those results is really a pretty key obstacle. And as you think about, I'm sure there's plenty of people who are listening to the podcast who have been in business for a long time and what got them to this point has worked. And it's generally at some side of sustainable growth and it's like, well, I don't need to change anything, because I can grow at that same rate. So, there's this adoption obstacle that is making change to go from let's say 6% year-over-year growth to 20% year-over-year growth. And again, it's about [inaudible 00:09:09] a little bit. So, sorry, you guys talk. I'll let you keep going. This was in my head.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: But, it's so true as people are looking at it. And even, I think Jim, even if someone doesn't want a lot of growth, going back to our question, from a risk factor, it's not about growth, it's about staying current with what the other contractors are doing.

Jim Mallers: Exactly, 100%. And I am sure Ryan's going to talk about, it's like how do I stay competitive? All of a sudden I'm doing what I've been doing, but my competition's doing something different and I'm being asked to do that and I'm not prepared. I don't have the capability.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So, people think that they think, well, I don't want to go to that next level. I don't want to do anything. Well, part of that is just being able to have it. So, Ryan, let's talk about how some of those technologies such as digital estimates, electronic signatures, so important and digital document management systems are reshaping the game for roofing contractors, because it really is. It's a whole new world.

Ryan Eves: Absolutely. Especially when you think where RoofSnap started was all about that, getting that measurement done with that aerial imagery and getting it done really fast. But, that's really only the tip of the power and it unlocks a lot of capabilities. Guess what computers are really great at? A lot of math, crunching a lot of math. So, when you get those measurements in with a system like RoofSnap, they can help you drive estimates. You automatically get your estimates right after, and it doesn't just have to be one. You can build templates. Those templates are easy to scale and share, and those allow you to basically have one measurement come in, provide multiple options.

We tend to talk a lot about this notion of good, better and best options, empowering the homeowner to make more intelligent decisions that also builds that trust. These are things that can take a lot of time of copying and pasting that can tend to lead to a lot of manual human errors. We all make mistakes. I do all the time when I'm doing this stuff, but computers are good at not making mistakes. They can do it consistently fast over and over and over again, and that's a big opportunity in the estimate space.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And when you look at just the ability, and I've seen it again as a consumer, to electronic signatures, I don't have to wait to get the paperwork, I don't have to stand there and I can just do it. Talk a little bit about that speed to close.

Ryan Eves: Absolutely. Think about that extra trip you make. You've had the conversation, you've done the measurements, you've put together a proposal, you're showing up. There's already somebody that's beat you by sending the document on that first day. They're able to see all those estimates and then even say, you know what? I'm ready to sign. I can pick a date. There's all these really built-in easy to use opportunities on your mobile devices to do those things same day without having to make multiple trips out, which just starts to get back to, Jim was making the point about not wanting to scale and I hear you. I've done a lot of small business stuff. Sometimes you're like, this is good, this is big as we want to get. But, it's all about efficiency. You might not want to get bigger, but wouldn't it be great if you worked less to get the same thing done? I think all these things are about saving that on-the-road time, saving that unnecessary time, especially now that homeowners are expecting more and more opportunity to self-serve with their own [inaudible 00:12:36]

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That self-serve, it's going to happen. It's in process. You can see it out there right now.

Jim Mallers: I like to make it real. So, we're going through a home renovation project right now. And I always like, it's interesting to do a renovation project where you're not doing it yourself, you're hiring somebody out, but you work in the industry so you know some stuff or you think you know some stuff or whatever. This is definitely one where my wife said, no chance, you can't touch it. Just hire somebody. Okay, you got it. So, we did. And I went out and the first person I called was the person I knew. Second person I called was a person that somebody recommended. Third person I called was somebody that I found online. As I went through and worked with these three [inaudible 00:13:22] to get those three quotes to Ryan's point, it was all about that experience.

And one of them before he walked out the door, had taken the measurements, taken the pictures on his tablet and we sat down in my garage and said, this is what it looks like, this is what we're planning on. This is the estimated cost. Here's how it looks for us and we'll price it out. Here's the obstacles, the next steps. So, wants to put all in this one app. Great, cool, easy. No commitments from him, but he had set my expectations. He had set some cost thresholds. He had price conditioned me. He had me ready to roll before he walked out the door and I knew, I'm going to hear from him in the next however many days. [inaudible 00:13:58] to actually keep that commitment, but that experience was great.

The next guy sat there and said, kind of same thing. Here's what it all looks like, sounds like, acts like, all on pen and paper and said, I'm going to go back to the office. I'm going to work with my office manager to work this up and go through. And then, will send it to a design person, who's then going to work this through and give us their design estimate and then we'll send the piece over to you. Still within my time, but now the experience is a little bit different. And now this is something probably from the industry I know, I know there's cost plus cost plus cost, because there's cost for him, plus cost for the office manager, plus cost for the design person all being added on top of this.

And then, the last guy and I swear it was actually in this order. The last guy came in, looked around said, it's about 3,000 square foot. We're looking at about $500 square foot, this is your cost. I go, what about the angles? I'll figure it out. It'll be within that cost. That's your setup up. No trust in that. He's going to have change orders on change orders on change orders or I'm way overpaying, one or the other. So, it's just interesting as Ryan talked like, put in perspective, what is your process like and, again, what's that competition doing? As Ryan mentioned, all of a sudden maybe I don't want to grow, but I can spend, the first guy, he spent 20 minutes with me, 15, 20 minutes with me and he did win the business by the way. The last guy spent the same amount of time, had no chance of business and the middle guy was going to spend three hours of time.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love that story. I've had similar situations. So, let's just take that and keep rolling, Jim, on the sales funnel. Because, really getting a good sales funnel, I can't believe you found that third guy online yet they didn't have that good automation coming through. So, what mix of lead generation tactics are you seeing works best to fuel the sales funnel and what are best practices to maintain that healthy, reliable flow of jobs? High quality jobs, the right jobs?

Jim Mallers: So, we used that story. That first guy, not the referral guy, the guy I knew and it wasn't guaranteed I was going to hire him because it wasn't his wheelhouse, but obviously he won the job. Referrals continue to be the number one lead source. But, when we talk about number one lead source, we should be clear on this. Number one is in terms of quality usually. When you ask somebody what's their best lead source, we tend to think we're asking, where do you get the most of your leads? But, what we're actually asking is, when you think of what leads perform, what's your best? And it's totally referral. Referral business is not something that you have this dial on though, to dial it up and dial it down. If it did, nobody would do anything but referral business. So, since it doesn't, we need to add different channels or tactics into our mix.

And so, first, for those that don't know, let's talk about mixes. Your lead generation mix or your marketing mix is the combination of the different tactics that you employ [inaudible 00:17:10] your new customers. So, think about digital versus social versus print versus home shows versus all those different things. The right mix is what's going to help showcase your business and the places where homeowners are shopping for the services that you offer. So, it's important to think about how your mix is going to interact across channels and interact with those homeowners. Using that right mix, obviously you get the right complimentary tactics engaged and you're accessing the right amount of homeowners in the right places to get the most bank for your buck, the most ROI. So, I think your question was, what key components are working or what are the tactics that are working best?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, what are you seeing?

Jim Mallers: So, I'll urge you to measure for yourself, but speaking in general, referrals always work. Anything with your brand is going to work. So, if you're able to leverage your brand to drive any traffic or activity, that's going to help you. And the reason it's going to help you is because your brand's obviously standing for something. And typically wherever you place your brand, you're placing an offer. And the offer is usually a clear call to action to get somebody who's kind of high intent. And so, high intent is important. When homeowners are putting their information into unbranded or non-dedicated sites, they're doing it often in that research base of their buying process. So, again, just to take a step back and I promise not to talk too long, but you take a step back, there's three phases in this buying lifecycle. You get this awareness phase, then you get this research phase, then you get this action or buy phase.

This awareness phase, it's like I think I might want to do a project. This research phase is figuring out who, how, when, with what products do I want to do it? And then, this action phase is, I'm getting quotes or I'm signing a contract. So, when you have a homeowner, one of these unbranded sites, these general websites, getnewwindows.com, let's say, I won't name any names out there, you might refer to them as aggregators. Homeowners are going to put their information in, they want to talk to you on the phone, see if they can get a price fee on the phone. They're trying to scale what the pricing is going to be. Then they might mention the home, but they're not super serious yet. So, I think about this as, referral is your number one tactic. Brand is number two, and then unbranded is number three.

When you go in that branded space, break it up. So, break it up in that, your website should be your best lead source. And when I say your website, I mean your website organically. You can invest, you can do paid media, you can pay per click and get your listings up there. But, your website itself, the ability to show up in the early search results is super helpful, because most homeowners today are educated enough to know when I type in roof replacement on Google, the first thing I see are the local service ads. The next thing I see is the Google map pack. The next thing I see is some AI. And they scroll past everything, go to those organic results. I'm going to see who's showing up and start to research, use those websites to pick their person. That said, don't skip LSAs. Do your local service ads.

Make sure your Google my business profile is up-to-date. Because, those business profiles enable your organic search results and those LSAs are super cheap, super easy, super effective leads. So, I'll stop there, but that's the way I would think about it. And then, I made a comment earlier, you'll hear me say it almost anytime I talk, what got you here won't get you there, but what got you here, got you here for a reason. Don't stop doing it. So, most of you have done some canvassing or neighborhood marketing or doing yard signs, wrapping your trucks, all the things that drive awareness in a neighborhood, super important. They got you here. Don't stop them. Keep investing in that. Keep thinking about how can I make that better? How can I do more with that? Because, once you're in a neighborhood, you want to own that neighborhood.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And that is such a great point, Jim, because it's not about getting rid of the old ways, it's about adding technology to make them even better, to work better. And so, one of the things that I think about too is when you're looking at operations and processes in your business and how that works in with the sales process and it really takes me back to RoofSnap a little bit, Ryan, on really how does that help in the sales process to make sure that contractors are the first company to respond and the first to close. So, starting at that very beginning.

Ryan Eves: I think about that moment of your website. At the end of the day, no matter how somebody finds out about you, they're going to be looking for that part of the experience. You go out there, you collect your typical lead form information, right there is actually a huge amount of opportunity for technology. There's a lot of things we can learn at that first touch about those customers that we can empower our contractors to help communicate back to them. Like you're dealing with tons of people, you're canvassing, you're not going to remember everybody. But, once again, digital documents, different CRM solutions help you collect, store and make it really accessible to follow these customers along and drive that conversation at high speed. And really it's all about that brand and presentation, continuing that brand. You can import those. You can use the same logo and presentation on your website.

You can add those to your documents to the other pages you generate and just follow that story along until you win that deal. And once again, you're doing it at a much higher speed than anyone else in the competition and we both know that matters in terms of the three. It's funny, Jim, the three you mentioned was the same three dynamic I had with the contractors that came to me. The mixture of like, I'm just going to tell you a number, to I got this all figured out in tech stack and it was really easy to see which one I was trusting most.

Jim Mallers: And it's funny because you'd think that the guy who's got that fully enabled tech stack is going to charge you the most, and they may or may not, but their ability to do so is there.

Ryan Eves: That's right.

Jim Mallers: And I tell you what, if he had charged me the most, still would've chosen him, because there's trust that's built with that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Isn't there just something subconscious, and maybe it's not even subconscious, it's just that impresses the consumer when someone has the organization, the operations and processes in place with that iPad or with the technology or however that tech stack is coming together, that really, it just puts that contractor way ahead. Like you said, your number one contractor, from the moment you saw how organized and put together he was with technology, it just made a difference.

Jim Mallers: My wife said, listen Jim, you know this stuff better than I do. She didn't say stuff, but I'm not going to swear. You do what you think is right, but I'll tell you this, if I was choosing, it'd be this guy because he made me feel most comfortable. I was most comfortable with him. I felt like I could trust him. He knew what he was doing. And so, if it was me, that's what I would do. I said, okay, [inaudible 00:24:36] exactly the same way out there. And he may or may not know what the hell he was talking about, but the tools he used made it seem like he did.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And that's where I think roof measurements are so important to be able to, and it's not just the roof measurements, but it's that aerial view. Hey, we see your house, we have that report, we have you right here. Here's the measurements. Now that measurement is going to go into your estimate, so we know it's accurate. And what you were talking about, Ryan, before is you don't have that duplication or the problems with entries or changing things around.

Ryan Eves: Or documents to lose. The one thing I still dream about it is there's still space and time to win. Because, I was actually shocked that nobody showed up with the estimate. They knew my address. I had already told them what I was looking to get done in the lead form. They all had that information, but it was like I was starting from square zero. They had my name, they didn't know anything about me. But, really, there's a huge opportunity that people could be showing up at the door because, Jim knows better than probably any of us that leads are expensive, especially high quality leads. They're super expensive. You think they're done and done? They're not. The ones that you land really matter. And that's where it makes sense to just spend a few dollars on technology to save yourself an incredible amount of time to be on top of it. Because, winning those deals is what is going to help you do more jobs at the end.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And you have all the information in your hands before you even knock on the door. It makes so much sense.

Jim Mallers: I love that. I've seen RoofSnap in action and I love it, because I feel like of the handful of times I've seen it in action the homeowner always goes, oh, I know when this picture was taken. Do you remember when my yard looked this way? We didn't have this bush head. We had this bush removed, blah, blah, blah. It's so funny.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Look, there's our car. Look, that's our old car. I've heard all that. I love that.
Jim Mallers: All of a sudden there's report built and you didn't have to do any work. It's like, all right, that's great.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: The report does it for you. I know. It's incredible. So, I think the contractors out there listening definitely are like, I got to get the technology, I got to get my tech stack, I got to put all this together. But, I think there's also a final part of it, Jim, that I really want to talk about and that is and you hit on it earlier, in choosing and partnering with lead generation providers. Let's just say a lot of contractors have been taken over the years at different things. And so, you need to really know who you're working with, who know the industry, what's some of your advice and let's talk a little bit about some of the solutions you have.

Jim Mallers: I'll try not to be salesy, because I know these are supposed to be educational, but my advice, like I said, the piece of advice already, what got you here, got you here for reason. It won't get you to the next point potentially, but don't stop doing the stuff that works. So, I love that this is happening. A canvasser just came to my door literally two minutes ago.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right now? Okay.

Jim Mallers: If you're a canvasser, don't stop doing it. That works. That got you here. But, there's only so much volume, there's only so much ROI there. That cost of marketing can be really high. So, keep doing those things. Build a foundation, a healthy foundation. So, a healthy foundation is, again, that website. Building that website, having agency that is constantly updating their website, paying attention to SEO, giving you the right amount of content, so on and so forth. Now, I will to the Socius horn here. One of the reasons that I'm a Socius fan and that I love to sell Socius is that, when you work with Socius, they're a very transparent business in many different ways. But, the most critical and when you think about websites is that, when you build your website with Socius, you own your website, you own all of it.

So, there's never any risk for us to build a website built inside a contract. And then, you say, you know what? It's not working. I'm going to go somewhere else. And then, I'll hold that website hostage. Which I know when you talk about contracts being taken, that's typically what we hear, is that they charged me all of the money. And then, when I wanted to go somewhere else, they said they're going to charge me 10 times more to take it all with me. And that's awful because we're dealing with a lot of small businesses here. We just don't have the cash flow. We just don't, at the part of the business. So, SEO, foundational SEO, make sure that you're finding somebody to do that and run that for you. I know a lot of us get our start having our brothers, sisters, friends, whoever, kids build our website. That gets us going. The growth trajectory is typically you have a Facebook site, then you start paying for leads, paying for calls, then you start to build your website and then you start to invest in your website.

Building a website may or may not be with somebody, but at the point where you're ready to invest in your website, make sure you have somebody who knows what they're talking about, doing SEO, run the SEO, have that foundational. From there, it's really about growth. So, investing in additional channels, investing in paid media. When we say paid media, it's important that you start to think of that language as paid media versus PPC. The difference is that paid media thinks about all the different media channels, not just Google, not just search engines. There's more and more activity coming through Meta, which is Facebook and Instagram. There's more and more traffic coming through different channels out there, YouTube and others that's quality traffic. Historically, that's the garbage traffic. And historically you might not have been wrong, but more and more we're seeing some of the best performing traffic come through those channels.

So, it's about having paid media, and again, having somebody who's going to look at that paid media and tell you, this is what's performing, this is what's not, this is why. This is what we're going to test. Having transparent reporting, having somebody that understands what they're talking about. Don't be afraid to challenge them. And then, growth beyond that is, again, paid lead channel. So, don't think of paid lead channels as aggregators, which is historically what we've done, but there's directories out there. There's print publications, which can be performance-based. You can do supplemental paid media campaigns, which are performance-based. You could do pay per call programs. Notice I keep saying pay per call, not pay per lead. Paying for a form lead is really tough, because the onus is on you to get the homeowner on the phone and schedule the appointment and do the work. Pay per call, there they're ready for you to schedule. They're action oriented. They're intent oriented. So, I guess, the short version of what I'm saying is, build the foundation first in your website and invest in that website.

Keep doing all the stuff you've been doing, home shows and canvassing and neighborhood marketing, all that. And then, invest and do it as a trial basis in performance marketing businesses like five star rated best pick reports, EverConnect Direct, EverConnect Live. They're going to help you get incremental business. And what's [inaudible 00:31:20] that performance based piece is it does have the volume control. So, I can say month one, I want to turn it up to X, month two I want to turn it down to Y. I want to run it at a certain rate early in the month and a different rate later in the month. You have the toggles to be able to adjust your volumes.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Excellent. I love it. And I am right with you, all of those things. That's so brilliant. Just so everyone knows, you can find information on these companies that are offering these services on RoofersCoffeeShop in the directory, because these are really the tools that you need. And just like the consumers are researching you, you should be researching all of this awesome technology that's out there. So, let's talk about how they can get started. I just said go the directories, find out the information. But, when I'm looking at that, I know that we are talking about doing a special as part of this podcast. We are going to have RoofSnap for free for seven days and I just want to say no credit card required and you're able to get your measurement reports free. So, that is going to give you the opportunity to see how this works in that sales process. Ryan, I always said once you try, it just takes care of everything.

Ryan Eves: Absolutely. You can do it yourself, but I definitely encourage you, try ordering one, especially if you're on your way to one of the sites and you literally want to win that deal. I bet you that you'll increase your odds significantly if you show up with an estimate in hand of what that customer wants. That's going to build a lot of confidence right up front and help you stand out.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I'm going to say one last thing too. I think it is respectful when you show up with an estimate and measurements and pictures in hand and because people's time is valuable and I don't want to sit at a table for two hours, I just don't want to do it.

Ryan Eves: To be honest, I asked myself, why did I tell them in the first place if they weren't going to show up with information in hand?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It's about being respectful of that time of that consumer. And so, thank you both. And again, I'm going to say that, through this podcast, we are having a very special offer on RoofersCoffeeShop for everyone who's listening to this that you will get the, if you subscribe to RoofSnap by and this will be coming out in July, so I'm going to say July 15th and we'll make sure that that date is correct, but by July 15th, you'll be able to enjoy 10% off. So, head to roofsnap.com/reach-trial-rcs to get this special offer or you know what? Make your life easy. Go to the directory for RoofSnap, for EverCommerce, for EverConnect or Socius. You'll be able to see all the information on RoofersCoffeeShop and [inaudible 00:34:11]. So, check it out. Gentlemen, thank you so much. This has been so informational.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It is a fun way to spend a Friday. So, thank you both. I've really enjoyed it. And thank you all for listening. Be sure to check this out. Check out the directories and try that seven day free trial. This is something that could really change your business and take you into either, like we said, give you some more free time or grow your business to that next level. But, you'll definitely be closing more sales. So, thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Please check out all of our Roofing Road Trip podcasts under read, listen, watch on rooferscoffeeshop.com or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and get those notifications, so that you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

Outro: If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll catch you on the next roofing road trip.