Honoring Black History Month in Roofing - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Rae Fistonich of Chinook Building Envelope Services, Donavan Morgan from Roofs By Don, Erica Reed of Elite Construction Solutions and Derrick Hutchinson from USG. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Welcome everyone to Coffee Conversations from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we are here today with a very exciting conversation and let's just find out why. There we go. We are here with a very exciting conversation. The chat is open as always, and we are ready to talk about Black History Month, honoring Black History Month in roofing. We have such an amazing panel today, our guests, it is going to be so much fun. So let's first start with a little housekeeping.

This is being recorded and it will be available in 24 hours, so be sure to share this out with everyone at your company, with your friends, your family. These kinds of conversations are changing, not just the industry, but they're changing the world. I'm just going to say that right there, right now. So be sure to get this out there and the chat is open. As you all know, this is interactive. We want to know where you're from, so tell us where you're at, what type of business you have and then throughout the conversation, please join with your comments, your thoughts, your questions. This is the kind of information that can really make a difference to your business and we want to hear from you. I also want to, as always, thank our awesome sponsor, Johns Manville. Johns Manville is doing things in diversity that no one else is. You look at their initiatives, how committed they are, their involvement and I just want to say thank you to Johns Manville. They're always here for us. They're always making things happen, and just such thought leaders and visionaries for the roofing industry. Thank you, Johns Manville.

Okay, let's get started, my friends. Let's start with introductions. So first, I would love to introduce and bring back Rae. Rae, good morning and welcome back to the show.

Rae Fistonich: Good morning, Heidi. Thank you for having me.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Oh, I love it. So why don't you give us a little introduction. Tell us about yourself and your company and what you do.

Rae Fistonich: Absolutely. Good morning everyone. My name is Rae Fistonich. I am the director of business development at Chinook Building Envelope Services. We're in Fife, Washington, which is just about Tacoma-ish area. I graduated from Arizona State University a long time ago. Roofing chose me. I didn't choose roofing. I absolutely love being in this industry. I'm also serving on the board of directors for National Women in Roofing on the Industry Recruitment Committee, and I'm also on the board for the Master Builders Association of Pierce County, which is the county that our business operates in. And yeah, I'm happy to be here.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Oh, Rae, we love having you on Coffee Conversations. Thank you so much. This is going to be a great one. We also would like to welcome back Donavan. Donavan Morgan, thank you so much for being here and coming back and joining us.

Donavan Morgan: No problem.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Introduce yourself, my friend.

Donavan Morgan: Hey guys, how you doing? My name is Donavan Morgan or Roofs By Don. I own Roofs By Don in Atlanta, Georgia. Also own the first roof museum that's also here based in Atlanta, Georgia. And we also do sales, marketing and recruiting with our company, Goats4Sales. And I'm very happy to be here. Based in Atlanta right now. I was originally from Fort Lauderdale, Fort Lauderdale, Florida and looking to make waves in the roofing industry.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That is great. And anybody who's in Atlanta, Georgia, you got to stop by and visit. We're going to be there this summer, Donavan. So we'll be visiting. RoofersCoffeeShop in the house. There you go. Okay. And I am so excited to invite and welcome Erica Reed to the show. Erica and I were just on a panel at IRE. Erica, welcome. Please introduce yourself.

Erica Reed: Thank you, Heidi. Good morning everyone. I'm Erica Reed. I'm from Florida, from Tampa, Florida. Moved here in 2014 and I became the first female general manager at 123 Exteriors out of Illinois. 123 Exteriors is now owned by Elite Construction Solutions and I'm the vice president of construction operations for Elite. When I was a sales rep, that was like 2014, I became the first female general manager. And to this day, I am the only female sales rep in the company to make it after 10 years, I've been here now. So out of, I guess, the whole company history of 17 years. So, just noticed that. We specialize in residential and construction, commercial operations, as well as new home building as well. And that's it.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. And I have to tell you, Erica, we've got some great emoji celebrations, hearts going on over here for you, so thank you whoever's out there doing that, that's awesome, also some great comments. So, welcome to Coffee Conversations. I love it. And Derrick, I am so excited to have you here today. Derrick and I are on a lot of committees together. We do a lot with the NRCA and this is just so awesome. So Derrick, please introduce yourself and let us know about your company.

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah, no, absolutely. Good morning everyone. Heidi, it's always a pleasure to run into you at every show, so we follow each other as we travel the country together. I've been with USG for 17 years. I'm currently the director of sales for our roofing business. We produce chips and cover board for the commercial roofing market. Currently, I reside in Chicago [inaudible 00:06:20], however I am, I'll say, originally from Belize. Belize is the only English-speaking country in Latin America. So I've spent quite a few years there and I consider Belize home, so I look forward to going back every opportunity I can.

Heidi J Ellsworth: How beautiful. That's nice. That's a nice place to go home to.

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Really good. Thank you so much Derrick. We have a lot of people out here making comments. I just love this, welcoming everyone. So like I said before, the chat is open. I will be reading from the chat and so I'm just going to say we've got a lot of people from all different areas also sending some great vibes out to our guests here. So, let's get started. We are here to celebrate Black History Month and to me, this makes me so happy, because I want to celebrate every single part all over the roofing industry. And this is such an important, important rich culture within roofing that we want to only grow. And so let's start with how we see black history intersecting with roofing. And Rae, I would love to start with you. What are you seeing right now? What's the intersection and, I'm just going to jump into it, how can we do better?

Rae Fistonich: I think that what we have to go back to is the beginning where, during slavery, a lot of structures were built and who do you think built them? A lot of roofs were installed and who were they installed by? The slaves. So when we talk about black history and how important it is to the roofing industry, there's the foundation, especially going through American history, there's a foundation there. You can go all the way back to how the pyramids were built. Again, there were slaves who built the pyramids. So, black history is American history and it is important when we talk about the roofing industry, the building industry. Some of the leading architects are black people. Some of the top inventors for the products we use are black people. And so it shouldn't be something that is only talked about or only shine a spotlight on this one little segment of the year. It's something that we really need to start thinking about more as part of our history as a whole. And also remembering that there's room for everyone in this industry, regardless of your gender, or the color of your skin, or your religious beliefs, there's room for everyone and we need to be a little bit more welcoming of those people.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. There is so much room, because this is such a great industry and we need talent and talent is what we're looking for. Erica, how do you see all this intersecting?

Erica Reed: As Rae stated, when you look at who was in the house and who was outside working, it was us, it was African-Americans, it was Black people, it was the slaves that built this country and it's ours just as well as anybody else's. Slaves built the White House, they built Harvard Law School, the Capitol in DC, the Smithsonian and many people don't even know about that. They also built Wall Street in New York. So we've always been an integral part of the roofing industry as a whole, and we do need to be more inclusive. And I think having people like those of us that are on this call is going to help with that in the future. And we will continue to be a part of American history as it relates to the roofing industry.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. I love that. Donavan, what do you think?

Donavan Morgan: Yes, yes. Yeah, definitely to add to that, I just feel like the main thing is representation. So just like Erica said, basically just having people being represented, letting people be aware of what's going on. And I think people on this call having these kinds of conversations is what's going to have people, Black people, know that this is an industry that is welcoming for us.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I think that's so true. I have to say is when we think about it, the more we open up the conversations, the more we are welcoming, the more we're having these kind of discussions, I just think then pretty soon we're like, "Yeah, of course. What are we thinking?" So Derrick-

Donavan Morgan: It'll be like a gold rush.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's a gold rush. Derrick, you work so much in the commercial, real estate, just that high end, like we were saying, Wall Street, the buildings, everything across the country with USG. What are you seeing and how is this intersecting?

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah, I think it's interesting. As we talk about the buildings that are prominent today, and some of us may not look back and think, "Hey, how many decades ago, when they were built, they were built by slaves and built by African-Americans and here they are still standing today. So as we fast-forward to the future, how do we continue to recognize that, acknowledge that and continue to build on that. So that's what I expect to see is continue to build on that, as you show here surrounding the black architects who shaped America, and how do we continue that trend moving forward surrounding African-Americans and what all we bring to the building industry. I think it's absolutely amazing what we've done in the past and how do we just continue to grow on that into the future?

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. And there's inspirations. This slide that we have up right now, Rae and Erica brought this to us, really talking about the pioneering black architects, how much they've done, talking about the White House and everything, the Capitol. So Rae, we want to talk a little bit about inspirations, and this was one of the things that you had mentioned. So talk to us a little bit about first your inspiration or historical figures who inspire you?

Rae Fistonich: So, there's quite a few who've inspired me, but for me it's people like Angela Davis. There's a woman who persevered. And when you look back throughout history, there's a lot of marginalized people who we talk about and the core of who they are is perseverance. Many times they were told no. Many times they were beaten, they had things taken from them that they worked really hard for, but they persevered. John Lewis, I use his mantra of good trouble quite a bit, because I love getting into good trouble. That's my favorite thing.

And when we look at these people who are very historic in the shaping of who we are as a society and as a country, it really is about perseverance. And it says here on the slide, perseverance paved the way. They didn't give up. Even though there were so many times when they could have given up, they said, "No, I'm not giving up. I'm going to persevere, I'm going to keep going." Because they were thinking about the next generation and the next generation and the next generation and all of us on this panel. Every day we show up with a responsibility not just to ourselves, but to our culture and we show up and we persevere, because we do it for our children, our children's children, our friend's, children and that generation that keeps coming after us.

Derrick Hutchinson: I love that, Rae. I resonate so much with that. Just, we all have made it to where we're at today, because of perseverance and we can't stop. We just have to keep pushing forward. And as you said, we don't just do it for us or our household. We do it for the people that look like us as well. So I really do appreciate you saying that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. Wow. Okay. I want to go to Erica on this, people who have inspired you and then we're going to... But there is someone who we just saw or you just saw at IRE and this is just such a great story to talk about, being inspired. So share this story, because yes, it's history, but it's also what's happening today, right now.

Erica Reed: So, one of the people that really inspires me, she's not in the roofing industry, she also happens to be a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, which is my sorority. Yay. And I met her at a leadership conference during Women in the C-Suite Conference. And it made me very emotional just listening to the women on the panel's stories, because they were all black women, but I was the first black CEO of Starbucks. There was Rosalind Brewer, CEO of Walgreens and Jenell Ross was also on that panel. We were supposed to connect. We ended up not connecting, but I was with her in Vegas, which is what Heidi's talking about. Got a chance to sit down and speak with her. Look her up. J-E-N-E-L-L Ross. Bob Ross was her dad and he was the only Black Mercedes dealer in the country and he was the president of Bob Ross Auto Group in Centerville, Ohio. Janelle is now the president of that auto group and she's held the position since 2010.

She's the only African-American, in the first generation, well, second generation, Mercedes-Benz dealership owner. That is huge. She's always been in male dominated fields, like myself. And it is tough as a Black woman to be in certain environments that may be not used to seeing someone that look like you. She told a story about going to a dealership conference and her mentor, like mine, was a white male also. And people said to him, "What is she doing here? She doesn't belong here." And his response was, "She outsells all you guys." So it's kind of the same thing with me, but we have to celebrate the new generation of people that are making history. So I didn't really want to focus on someone in the past. Jenell Ross is amazing. Make sure you guys do the research and look her up. She also owns Buick and GMC brands, and tried to steer me from my car to a Mercedes as well, so she's a good salesperson.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. This is the kind of stuff, it's so cool. So Donavan-

Donavan Morgan: Yes.

Heidi J Ellsworth: ... what has been your inspiration? Who has been some, either historically or today, who've inspired you, because you are creating something pretty amazing?

Donavan Morgan: Thank you, thank you. It's going to sound funny, but as far as for my inspirations, I like music a lot. Obviously, you see we have a theme song every single day, and my real inspirations are Jay-Z, 50 Cent and really the moguls of the hip hop industry. That was my first inspirations that I felt like... And Michael Jordan, LeBron James. And I felt like really the reason why is because they are the best in their fields and they strive to be the best of the best. And I feel like with me, I'm real competitive, so I like to be the best of the best as well. So I try to mimic the things that the best of the best do, so that way I could be on their level. So whether it's, with me for instance, say making the roof museum, The Roof Gallery, the reason for that is because I felt like the roofing industry didn't have somewhere that highlighted the best of the best or a hall of fame, so we had to make it. So that's the purpose for that. I felt like the best of the best is usually on TV or things like that, so that's why we have the reality show or the theme song. So I feel like looking at people in different industries that are really excelling helps me in my own industry,

Heidi J Ellsworth: Bringing it back into roofing, bringing the best. I love it. Derrick, what are your inspirations and whether historically, today, what do you have?

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah, mine's, I guess, maybe not so historic, but for me it's Muhammad Ali. I do look at what he's done, what he's been through as an inspiration and keep pushing forward. Everyone that's been around me has seen my screensavers across everything and it's basically impossible is nothing which comes from Muhammad Ali. And it's just that phrase and the overall message surrounding that continues to drive me every day surrounding the challenges that are faced just in regular daily life and work life and so on, so forth. It just gives me that extra boost to keep pushing right, that; hey, impossible is nothing and I can do it. So for me, that's my inspiration.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That is so cool. So, we had a great question come in from Mark. Good morning, Mark. Thank you for being here. He said, "Great panel and great topic this morning. Thank you for doing this. My question is, what unique challenges or opportunities have you encountered as a black professional in the roofing industry and how have you navigated them?" So Derrick, I'm going to start with you on that one and then we'll work through everybody, but some unique challenges and how have you navigated them?

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah, I'd say for me, doing a little bit of... Going back to college, I graduated with a degree in physics and I was the only person that looked like me in my graduating class. And fast-forward to the working world and the roofing world, it's great to see every day, more and more people that look like yourself, but it's still far and few in between. So, I would say in regards to that end of it, and it's always great to see someone that you can speak the same language per se, you understand each other a little bit more, you've been through similar things and so on and so forth. I think it's always good to be able to see that and relate to someone here. So, being on this panel today is important and being able to meet everyone here is important. So I look forward to meeting you all in person someday in the near future. But for me that's one of the challenges out there is just it's far and few in between.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donavan Morgan: I think to add to that, I feel like as far as challenges wise is, just like Derrick was saying as far as usually being the only one in the room or few between, but I feel like also when you are the only one in the room, it's like you are the main representative for the whole black culture, because... So it's like anything you do is like, "Oh, black people." And at the end of the day, just like people, just like everything, everyone is different, everyone has their own personalities. Me, Derrick, Erica, Rae, all have different personalities and I feel like one of the main things is being able to try to show our differences without being bunched up into one group always.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yes. I think that is such a great comment, Donavan, both, and Derrick, I love it. Rae, what are some of your thoughts on challenges, unique challenges or opportunities in roofing and how you're navigating that?

Rae Fistonich: I feel like we're all going to have the same answer here. So I'm going to build on what Derrick and Donavan said. As a woman, as a black woman, I have to be my own tone police. I have to watch what I say and how I say it, because I'm a very passionate person. And so when I am talking about something, I talk a lot with my hands sometimes and my voice goes up a little bit. I have to worry about being labeled the angry black woman. When I ask specific questions, I hear things like I'm intimidating. Now, [inaudible 00:23:57] can do exactly what I've done and it's, "Oh, you're having a bad day." Or, "It's okay." But when I do it, and I'm always having to think about those things, like how I show up every day, because as Donavan said, when I get up every day, I'm representing for an entire race, because if I make a mistake, then it's not Rae made this mistake. It's like, "Oh, here, black women.

And it's frustrating as hell. But you know what? Again, it goes back to persevering. I'm not the first person who's going to go through it. I'm not the last person who's going to go through it. And it's just how you persevere. And there's, luckily, now we have DEI committees within some of these associations in roofing that really helps a lot of leaders navigate, understanding what diversity, equity and inclusion really means and how to, I don't want to say integrate, but how to communicate with people who are not like you and understanding that it's not a one size fits all approach. We're all from different walks of life.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So true. That's across the board. Yes. Erica?

Erica Reed: To piggyback off of everybody, like Rae said, we're going to pretty much have a similar answer, she's 100% correct. And in the chat, Maya asked, "Why do you have to carry the burden for all in your demographics?" Unfortunately, that's what it is. Somehow, throughout history, and I believe this was Thomas Jefferson who said it, Black people were lazy, but we were the ones doing all the work. So, how is that narrative possible? So because we know that that narrative is out there and we carry the burden of the whole race, many of us tend to overwork ourselves just to prove who we are. And it's not fair when some of our counterparts may do less work than we do, but get more glory than we do.

Rae mentioned the tone, that label of angry Black woman, everybody has bad days. No matter what your race is, whatever your gender is, it does not matter, everybody is entitled to a bad day. However, passion is mistaken for aggressiveness when it comes to black women. I've said things in a manner where it was just, I'm passionate about what I do, I'm serious about the millions and millions of dollars I'm responsible for, and I can get up in front of a room and tell you what I need you to do, how I need you to do it, because it's important to me. I cannot fail. Someone else can give the same message, but they are passionate and I was aggressive and I'm rubbing people the wrong way. Personally, it doesn't matter to me. I'm here to do a job, I'm going to do it. Nobody's going to stop that. But this is some of the things that we encounter just being African-Americans in the field.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, and I think a lot of... When you're looking at that, I can relate to that so much, Erica, because I get passionate and some people are... That's scary when we're changing, we're changing the perceptions, we're changing where we're going. I do want to say here, I just want to read a couple of these comments, because I just think they're so great. So from Joe, he said, "Jenell is a beast in the auto industry, almost convinced me to go with Mercedes. If I ever buy one, it'll definitely be through her dealership." So I wanted to go back to that, because I just thought that was great. Great comment. And we have Donavan, Courtney said, "That sounds like an amazing playlist of your inspiration, of your folks."

So, we had a question from Diana. And you know what, Diana, I just don't want you to think I'm going to skip over this. We're going to come back to this, because we've got a lot of actually ideas, because she wants to know how to get others in the room... "What do you do to get other African-Americans interested in the industry?" And so we're going to talk, we've got some pretty cool ideas here that they're going to talk through here in just a minute. Maya, and thank you, Erica, "Why do you carry the burden in your demographic? I relate having to outwork to prove worth." Very great. We have a question, "How can we work with the next generation coming into the workforce to change this narrative?" I think that's an awesome question, Lily. And in fact, just so everyone knows, two weeks from now, we're going to have the next gen. So we're bringing the next gen on as a panel. And I believe, Lily, hopefully I'm not putting you on the spot, but Lily may be one of our next gen guests. So, how do we change that narrative? So Donavan, let's start with you. What's your thoughts?

Donavan Morgan: Yes, yes. I think basically just showing one that roofing is cool. So that's one of the main things. Right now, I feel like there's a narrative on roofing, the old person with construction boots on and with just the narrative as far as it not being as trustworthy. When you look on BBB or you look on Angie's List, it's usually the number one scam. So, I feel like, one, showing that it's a trustworthy business, showing that it's something that could be fun and that it's something that kids or the youth can see themselves doing. So usually, for instance with us, what we do is we went to the Construction Ready event and SkillsUSA. It was at the Georgia World Congress Center. There was middle schoolers there, high schoolers there, people ready to get into the workforce. And we try to be what's called dream facilitators.

So, basically trying to impact the youth and showing them that there's things that they can do in whatever they like to do, that they can also incorporate into the roofing industry. So for instance, with us, with The Roof Gallery, we have a media room. In our media room, we do podcasts. We have, if people like to, we're in Atlanta, so it's like black Hollywood. So everyone likes to do music, they like to act, they like to do things like that. So they're able to use it and we're able to help them. So in that way, the roofing industry is enhancing their dreams. It's a way where they can also do other things as well. So to show them that it's not a dead end, it's not after their dreams are done, now I'm a roofer. It's more like; I'm a roofer and this is also going to enhance whatever else I like to do as well.

Heidi J Ellsworth: You have a lot of musicians who work for you, right, Donavan?

Donavan Morgan: I do. I do.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I know, so do I.

Donavan Morgan: Like I said, Atlanta's like black Hollywood, so we have a lot of people that like music, that like reality shows, modeling, things that young people like to do. So especially when they're just coming out and they're creative, so we like to tap into their creative mindsets and help them out. We have people that like clothes, so we support them. We show them how to do trade shows for their clothes, things like that. So that way, again, it's more like a family thing and roofing is the engine that helps drive everything else.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love that. I love that. Erica, thoughts on how can we work with the next generation coming into the workforce to change this narrative?

Erica Reed: So Donavan, you forgot to mention the most important thing. Donavan has a rap song about roofing.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donavan Morgan: Yeah, it's every single day.

Erica Reed: That's how you get the generation, through being... And he is also the social media guru of roofing. So, I think-

Donavan Morgan: Thank you.

Erica Reed: ... just disclosing the things you do are fun. It's not necessarily all hard work. So continuing to do that is going to help us. And we're going to talk a little bit later about how we're trying to get the children in the industry at a young age. Most of parents, if you guys are on the call in the chat, convince your children to go into construction. It is the way to build generational wealth. And for some reason throughout history, people have looked at roofers as just poor construction workers. They're dirty, they're on the side of the road, but they are smart. They are engineers, they're architects, they are building. The most important thing that you own, your most important asset is your house. We had to put a roof on your house, you had to be pretty smart, so your roof doesn't cave into your house. So convince your children to get into this industry, and we are here to help. And we're going to talk about it a little bit later during the webinar.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Derrick, changing the narrative with the next generation?

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah, I think first of all, what Donavan and Erica said is exactly it. And I think this right here that we're doing today is a part of that. So bringing that message forward and having this panel and celebrating black history with RoofersCoffeeShop, I think it starts here today. And the message that both Donavan and Erica have given are exactly what the audience and the next generation needs to hear. So thank you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, honored. Honored. Rae?

Rae Fistonich: Oh, I agree with what they all said. That's exactly how we do it. It's the simplest of formulas. We have to make this fun. Roofing is fun. It's not a boring job. And we have to also understand that roofing is not just about installing product outside. There's scientists, there's architects. There's so many different aspects to the roofing industry that we have to start sharing, because if we don't, then they don't know what it is about. They're just looking at the guy who comes in the work truck with the ladder rack and he's tired at the end of the day. That's the image that we have built for when it comes to roofing. We need to change our image.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And Rae, I would love for you, let's take this moment and talk a little bit about also changing the marketing of the roofing industry. And you have done that. You have been instrumental with National Women in Roofing, and a couple years ago you said, "We've got to change." Why would someone want to be involved if they don't see anyone who looks like them?

Rae Fistonich: Exactly.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And so talk about that because I think that's so critical.

Rae Fistonich: So, a little bit of backstory, about four years ago, I was approached and asked to be more involved with NWIR, and I was told they're starting a DEI committee, and they'd love for me to be on that committee and help lead the DEI initiative. Immediately I said, "No, I don't want to be the token black girl. No, I'm not going to do it." And then I had a conversation with someone and he said to me, "You complain a lot about not seeing people who look like you in this industry. How do you think you're going to see people who look like you if you're not willing to be the martyr and step up and put your face out there and be the change you wish to see?"

It's easy for us to [inaudible 00:35:24] to your quarterback and complain about everything that's not being done, but we've got to step up and be out there. And so I stepped up and said, "Yes, I'm going to lead." And the first thing I said is, "NWIR needs to change our imaging. We need to change our website. We need to change our marketing materials, because when this brown girl looks at it, I don't think I belong." And if we're going to be recruiting other people who look like us on this panel and other minorities into this industry, we've got to start showing them the diversity that this industry truly has.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And it's there, the diversity is there. It's just like, when we started National Women in Roofing, they were like, "Well, there's not that many women in roofing." I'm like, "You would be surprised, because they're all my friends." And we brought it together. And it's the same thing. It's like we need to, for everyone, for all different ethnicities, I never can say that word, but we need to come together and have the NRCA, I know they're working on it, to change the marketing image, to show the beauty of the culture of roofing in all across the spectrum for all minorities. Donavan?

Donavan Morgan: And to add to that, just as far as for Black History Month, so RoofersCoffeeShop is actually the first I've ever seen to actually, through a podcast, as far as for Black History Month, so big props for that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Thanks.

Donavan Morgan: And we actually just did our second annual Black History Month event. It was on February 1st, as far as The Roof Gallery Summit. So, we are out there as far as having Black History Month events and trying to get everyone that is tastemakers in the industry to connect and to network. We had Manaya, for instance, with CertainTeed that was there, and we had the mayor of Mableton that was there. So we are starting it. I think it's just podcasts like these just to bring out the awareness, so people know that; look, there are things that's going on. And even the Black History Month event that we just had, it was mainly contractors from out of state as well. So, it's just about bringing the awareness and just getting the ball rolling. So, we started, we arrived, we're here now, so now it's just getting the word out.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. And I was going to say, and we're all involved in associations. We're all involved in different associations and pushing that out, pushing that, "Hey, we don't..." Sorry, and this is not... But we don't need to have all the same white men across the brochures, or the websites, or anything. Let's show the beauty of the culture of the industry all the way through. We have so many comments, chats here, so we have some great things.

A similar question too was, and I think we just answered it, but I want to recognize the question from Aaron, is; "How to change the perception of angry black women, if you're the only one in the room, company, who also doesn't like being mislabeled. Thanks for the great panel." So she just wanted to say that. And I think we've answered is stepping out and having these conversations and saying everybody has a bad day, and sometimes it's not even a bad day, it's just being passionate. It's just being... And standing up for yourself. So thank you all for being the change we must see. Ted has his two stepsons starting in the business. Oh, Erica, good. You're answering. Gosh, this is so great. Okay, we want to get a little bit, and I'm checking the time, we're going to get into the recruiting, because that's what everybody's asking about. And I did have one comment here that I want to read, and that is from IKO, and-

Donavan Morgan: IKO, IKO building.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. "Happy to be a part of this morning's conversation. Just wanted to say everyone at IKO is beyond proud and appreciative of your partnership with Donavan and Erica over the years. Donavan and Erica are truly trailblazers in the roofing industry and are inspirational to future generations."

Donavan Morgan: Thank you so much.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love that.

Erica Reed: Thank you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay.

Donavan Morgan: IKO loves you back. We love you too.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. And we had some questions about mentors, and so we did talk a little bit about that. Let's go to recruiting, because I want to make sure we get some great time in here for that. So I'm going to share our screen again and we're going to talk a little bit about historically black colleges and universities. And Erica, I'd love to start with you, just on getting involved, recruiting, how the roofing industry can be a bigger part of this and walk the talk.

Erica Reed: All right. So because I attended the best historically black college and university, Florida Agricultural Mechanical University in Tallahassee, Florida, that's where I want to start first. So I talked to my president last year about reaching out to some HBCUs, also high schools as well, to get into their construction programs or even their engineering and architectural programs to start recruiting, not necessarily women, but just all African-American students, just to expose them to the industry. Many people don't even know about the storm industry. I had no idea until I moved up here. So I want to put the history of our industry out and then began recruitment fairs, hiring interns, providing internships for students, and then possibly hiring them straight out of college.

I met with Congressman Reid Ribble on the IKO Bahamas trip, and thanks Michael, by the way, and we talked about building programs or trade courses within high schools. I realized that, since I graduated from high school, a lot of those programs are gone. We had automobile, we had shop, we had woodwork for carpentry as well, business courses. And they've gone out of the high schools due to funding. So we talked about possibly partnering with some of our manufacturers to see if they would provide the funding for us to go into these schools. And if the schools understand they're not responsible for it financially, then they may let us come in. So, I'm going to reach out to others in the industry. And we can get some of these high schools that will allow us into their campuses to teach the courses to build a bigger program across the nation. So that is the goal. I know Rae also spoke about, I think it was a school in Washington maybe, that people weren't really aware of. So she can elaborate on that a little bit more, where they offer free construction courses.

Rae Fistonich: Yeah. So, one of the things... Well, GAF has a roofing academy here that offers free classes from installation to understanding the sales side. It's a program that really has been helpful. I've also joined the advisory board for my kids' school district for the career and technical education program. And I go into the high schools and I talk to freshmen, to seniors, and I talk to them about the roofing industry and what I do and how to get involved. Our company is starting a job shadow and internship program where we can bring students in to either job shadow or intern with us as well.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it.

Erica Reed: I have also started being invited into elementary schools in Chicago [inaudible 00:43:41]. I know last year I did a career fair with some elementary students, brought some construction gear out, hard hats and things of that nature and they had a ball playing with it. So just getting them interested. And I know I talked to you before, but one of the young women said, "I didn't know women that looked like you were in construction. I thought you had to look like a man to be in construction." And I said, "No, you don't, because I get on the roof with my red lipstick on, dressed up. I just put the appropriate shoes on." So there is no specific look that you have to have. And I think that a lot of kids, mostly females, don't think about the industry, because of the perception that you have to be a man, or be strong, or look like a man. Obviously not, so I think we just have to get that out there more and be present in our own communities

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. And show that it's welcoming to everyone. So, Donavan?

Donavan Morgan: Yeah, I was going to say, I just think the same thing. I think the main thing is just representation and just showing that there's, what everyone is saying, that there's different kinds of people. So really like what Erica just said, she could put on her lipstick. She could still be a girly girl and still put on her Cougar Paws to be on the roof. Same thing with me, I have a lot of saleswomen that's on our team. Some of them don't even have to necessarily climb roofs, they can fly drones. So it's letting them be aware of the different positions that they can have in the industry and showing people that there's a way where they can get in where they fit in. And showing again that it can be cool, impacting the youth, so recruiting the young kids. So like I said, with the Construction Ready, since going to that event, we've had a lot of...

Because we have The Roof Gallery and we have the museum set up, we actually do VIP tours. So we have people that's going to be coming from different classes. They schedule tours and they'll be doing a tour at our Roof Gallery where we do demonstrations. We have virtual reality goggles, things like that. But again, it's just making it fun and showing them that you can look like anything. So you can be the old guy or you could be someone in designer clothes, or you can be someone in regular clothes. You could like fishing, you could like basketball, you could like music. And all in all, you can still be a roofer.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So cool.

Erica Reed: One thing you said, talking about the different positions within the industry, we need estimators. You don't have to get on the roof. We need-

Heidi J Ellsworth: We need a shingle designer.

Erica Reed: Yeah, we need administrative people to check in the jobs. You have to know roofing in order to know how many bundles of shingles are in the square. We teach you that, but there's a lot of other jobs other than you having to be outside to build a roof. And we have to just make sure we are educating the people on this information.

Donavan Morgan: We need a black owner of a distribution company, a black owner of just every little position, every single position, there should be someone that is representation of that as well. So, that's what we should be looking at. With me, at first, when I just got into it, I didn't really see a lot of black owners. Once I got onto social media, then I had other black owners come out and say, "Hey, I never saw black owners until you." You know that Spiderman meme? We're all just point at each other like, "Hey, I never seen..." So, at the end of the day, again, it's just having the representation, putting it out there and I feel like everyone will gravitate to that.

Derrick Hutchinson: Yeah, that's exactly it. Just getting that message out there, whether it's through the college or the high school, or you said Donavan, social media, just getting it out there and that will draw people in. My daughter, she's a senior in high school, and she was a part of a career type class, and I met with the teacher and I said, "Well, are you guys going to expand this into construction and get some kids out there and learning different trades and so on?" And it seemed like it was a part of their future. So I'll have to check back in with the teacher just to see how myself, you or she can get involved in that. And just getting that message out there surrounding, "Hey, it's a lot of fun. You can do so many different things. You're not just out there putting shingles on a roof. There's so many different high paying jobs that you can do in this industry."

Donavan Morgan: You can make the next roofing boot.

Derrick Hutchinson: You can. You can. Absolutely.

Donavan Morgan: I need a sneaker deal.

Derrick Hutchinson: There you go.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. And there's things that you can do right now and ways of, like what Rae was saying, on talking about National Women in Roofing and getting involved, we want to talk a little bit about the Black Building Envelope. Nigel, I know you're on here. Thank you for putting yourself forward. We're going to have you on this coffee shop, and hopefully I'll see you at IBEC, but the building envelope professionals. And Rae, you've been talking to Nigel, you've been involved. Derrick, I think you've been involved a little bit. This is something that's happening right now and really within the building envelope space. Talk a little bit about this, because this is the kind of stuff that we need people to get involved.

Rae Fistonich: Yeah. So their mission is really to significantly increase the representation of blacks and all other underutilized groups in the building envelope profession. BBEP promotes access to opportunities in the building envelope profession through workforce development, entrepreneurship, education, networking and advocacy. The primary goal is provide a place for community network, continuous education units, job opportunities and career development within the building envelope industry. It's not just for black people, but also other minorities in the building envelope space and those who want to do business in the building envelope sector. So whether you're a roofing contractor, an architect, a waterproofing consultant, manufacturer, formerly incarcerated students interested in the industry, it's for everyone. But really this space was created to shine a light on those of us who are black and in the building envelope sector. They have a big website launch that comes summer of 2024. So this is a little bit snip of what to expect on the website, but I'm pretty excited to see what comes of it.

Heidi J Ellsworth: One of the questions, I want to make sure we answer here, is that we've been talking about allies and advocates, even mentors. What are your thoughts on sponsors? Are you aware of basically people sponsoring other black professionals, minorities, making them feel welcome and sponsoring and bringing them into the industry? And then of course, my mind goes out to what Erica was talking about, and that's also putting some money behind what we're talking about and helping with the sponsorships, helping getting this out. So, would love some thoughts to answer that question, but also to getting involved with Black Building Envelope, getting involved with National Women in Roofing, getting involved maybe even new chapters, Donavan, as we're talking about how are we bringing people together? What are some of the things that we can do? So Donavan, since I just said your name, let's start with you.

Donavan Morgan: Yes, yes. Yeah, I just feel like just awareness. I feel like at the end of the day, with these, like you say chapters, getting these groups is really just bringing it out as far as with us, what I can say personally, so we have the roof museum. It's a 501(3)(c), so it is a nonprofit. And just like we have the Black History Month events, we're trying to be able to make platforms for people to basically connect, have a voice, be inspired and excel.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. Derrick, what are your thoughts about being a mentor, that sponsor to other young black professionals and helping them get involved in the industry?

Derrick Hutchinson: I love that mentorship, being able to; hey, someone has done this before and I can guide you surrounding, hey, this may be an easier way or a better way, or something like that to get to where you want to go. I am all for mentorship. Nigel and I, we actually spoke about on the Black Building Envelope Professionals last year at IBEC. So I'm looking forward to having a little bit more discussion surrounding that next week. Yeah, so I think it's great. I think that mentorship is important. It's important for everyone to have some type of mentorship as we just go throughout this industry. And there's people that have done it before, so why not learn from them?

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. Rae?

Rae Fistonich: Mentors can come in all shapes and sizes. My mentor in this industry were two white men. And I remember my first year, I am now 10 years into the industry, but my first year in, our CEO, who's a white male, came to me and said, "What do you want to do here?" And I jokingly said, "Teach me everything you know." And he goes, "Okay, starting Monday." And I was like, "Oh, what did I get myself into?" But he hasn't let up. He's been my mentor, he's been by my side. And all of these opportunities that I've gotten really was not just because of his mentorship, but because in my mind I knew that I didn't want to be stagnant. I wasn't going to ever be comfortable just being in the same spot forever. Growth is painful and growth comes with discomfort. And if you're comfortable where you are, then you're not going to grow.

And a lot of us on this panel have all gone through different phases in this industry, where we started, Erica's story is a prime example, proof of concept, where she started in the industry and where she is today. Donavan and Derrick and myself and Heidi, even you, we all have these stories of starting at an entry level and now we're leaders within our organization. It didn't come from us just sitting back and just doing nothing. It came from hard work. It came from mentorship. And again, mentorship doesn't always have to be someone who looks just like you. You may be in an area where you don't have someone who looks like you, you may be the only one in the room, but how are you networking? How comfortable are you reaching out to people. These associations are a great way to network. Some of my best friends I've made are through NWIR, lifelong friends are through NWIR, because I realize that there's something of substance that I'm gaining from being a member of this association. And I think if you step out and join some of these associations, you can find your mentors there.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. Wow. That's so true. I just love it. I'm inspired. Erica, I know we're getting down to it, but one thing you and I talked about that I just think is powerful is you and I were talking about; okay, let's let the historically black universities and colleges that you're involved with, you're so involved, that have construction management schools, let's let them know about the Roofing Alliance Student Competition. Sometimes it's those small things that we don't think about, and I know you and I are going to work on that to get that information out to the construction management schools, but we also had a question here on same thing. "What if someone comes out," from Sarah, thank you, "if someone comes out of high school and they're interested in getting construction trades, where would you send them? How do you take those first steps?" Erica, what's some of your... I'm going to wrap this up with you. What's your thoughts?

Erica Reed: If there's someone straight out of high school that wants to work and start where I started in sales, we will hire them. We have Joe Cook, our VP of sales, can put his email address in the box. I think he's on this call. That's my partner. We mentor each other and we help each other, but we're hiring now. They don't have to be 21 to get a job. Some of our best canvasers were straight out of high school. They can start there. And then he's very good at teaching them the steps that it takes to be successful. He will have your child making more than an anesthesiologist's salary before they hit 30 years old. He's that serious about what he does.

I'm no longer on the sales side, but they can start there. But the same thing in operations. We have property control positions that are open and we can teach them. They don't have to have experience in construction. I didn't. They don't have to have a degree or even a trade. We can teach them what we need to teach them, because once again, there's other parts to the construction industry than being a roofer, where they need the technical skills. However, we work with our partners, our manufacturers, we can get that training as well from those who have physically done the job. So we can grow a student from high school age through their next decade in the industry, and they may end up where I am, but you have to come to us first, but we can definitely make that happen.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I tell you what, every single student out there is welcome and we want them to come into roofing.

Erica Reed: Nationwide.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Nationwide.

Erica Reed: ... high school students, let us know.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's it. And so Sarah, if you want to get connected, obviously with any of these folks or anybody on here, you can just heidi@rooferscoffeeshop.com, I'll connect you. We'll network. Check out our classified ads on RoofersCoffeeShop. A lot of people have ads on there for jobs. They just need to know everyone is welcome. Everyone, everyone, everyone. So, wow, this has been the fastest hour I think of my life. And you all-

Donavan Morgan: Time flies when you're having fun.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I know. You all are the best. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being on here and for being such inspirations in the roofing industry. I can't say it enough. Thank you. This means the world to us at RoofersCoffeeShop.

Derrick Hutchinson: This was great. Thank you.

Erica Reed: Thank you all for-

Donavan Morgan: Thank you. Thank you.

Rae Fistonich: Thank you, Heidi.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Thank you.

Donavan Morgan: Thanks for giving us a platform.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, we're going to keep, all year, Black history all year long. Yes, not just one month.

Donavan Morgan: This month we had our coffee black.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, there we go. Or our tea. There we go. And I want to encourage everybody, if you're going to the IBEC show next week, stop by the RoofersCoffeeShop booth, look for Nigel and talk about the Black Building Envelope Profession. This is one very solid way that you can be involved and start doing something and giving back to so many people. And also get involved with NRCA. All of your different groups. There are National Women in Roofing. There's so much we can do. We just all need to come together. I want to thank Johns Manville again. Wow. Johns Manville, you are amazing for sponsoring this. And I have to tell you, we are also going to celebrate Hispanic Heritage in the fall, and then we also have Pride Month in June. So I'm telling you what, everyone is welcome on the coffee shop. And we are going to have a great day.

Thank you so much. Join us two weeks from now. I have to tell you, I'm not going to be there. I'm going to be on an airplane. So, Megan Ellsworth and the next generation are taking over the Coffee Conversations and it will be great, so find out what they're thinking and how you can recruit them, because they will definitely tell you what they think. If you have any questions that we didn't get to, there's a lot of chat in here. I can't tell you how much I thank you. Just let us know. We'll catch up with you all and have a great week and a great weekend. Thank you so much everybody. Have a great day.

Donavan Morgan: Raise the roof.