Greg Hayne, Kerrick Willis, Chad Westbrook, - Elevating Roofing Businesses at ServiceCon - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Chad Westbrook of Service Alignment, Greg Hayne of Hayne Coaching Group and Kerrick Willis from Geospatial Integrations. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. This is Heidi Ellsworth, and we are here today to talk about one of the fastest-growing trends and not just trends, but business in roofing and that's service and maintenance. Yeah. Every contractor out there is thinking, "I either need a service and maintenance," or "How do I grow it?" It's one of the two because it is so important.

And so we have one of the premier events coming up in 2025, ServiceCon, which is going to address how to start, how to grow, how to just be better and helping your customers to have a great experience when it comes to service and maintenance for roofing on their buildings. So we asked the folks at ServiceCon to let us talk to some of their speakers at the conference so we can get a little bit of an insight and see what all is going to be happening. So I am so happy to bring to the show Chad Westbrook, Greg Hayne and Kerrick Willis. Good morning and hello gentlemen.

Greg Hayne: Good morning.

Chad Westbrook: Good morning.

Kerrick Willis: Hello.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Hello. Well, let's start with some introductions. So Greg, let's start with you. If you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your business.

Greg Hayne: Sure. I'm Greg Hayne of the Hayne Coaching Group. I am involved in ServiceCon and service in general because I've been training roofing contractors, service departments, commercial contractors for about 15 years.

And as a result of that, we've also formed peer groups where we bring non-competing contractors together to work not just on service but all aspects of their business, work on solving common problems, sharing best practices and things like that.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. We've worked together for many years in many different places, so I always love to hear what you have to say, Greg. This is going to be great. Kerrick, if you can introduce yourself and tell us about your business.

Kerrick Willis: Sure, sure. My name's Kerrick Willis. I'm a second generation roofer, a army veteran and a commercial pilot with helicopters, airplanes and drones. I have a company called GeoSpatial Integrations, GSI for short and we basically integrate drones in commercial roofing companies to show you that it's no more than a tool in your tool belt.

So how to use it for photography, videography, 2D, 3D models, basically whatever you need it for. Just trying to help people get rid of that fear of technology and drones being that primary factor that I'm working with right now.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Boy, and talking about a technology that is front and center right now in the news and contractors are wondering, working with it every single day. So perfect, perfect timing. Chad, can you introduce yourself and tell us about your company?

Chad Westbrook: Of course, of course. So my name's Chad Westbrook. I'm the founder of Service Alignment. Me and my team, we specialize inside the implementation of service into a business or growing it either into a driver or a vehicle to be able to get more into the private negotiated world and grow the business.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Sounds great. I'm telling you what, this is so hot out there right now. We have contractors asking about it all the time. So let's kind of start with a state of the industry on service and maintenance and what you all see happening out there right now. Greg, maybe you can start us out.

Greg Hayne: Well, I think that what I noticed probably three or four years ago, standing at my booth at the IRE is that there was a definite uptick in interest by commercial contractors in building a better service department. And I don't think this was related to the economy, whatever it may or may not have been doing, this was before COVID. And but I've seen an increase in interest. And in my peer groups I see a lot of contractors focusing more attention on service as well.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: It just seems to be a fit no matter what the economy is, and it's just what customers are expecting to just like you service your car. I mean, why wouldn't you service your roof or your building or anything else? And so the expectations are there. Chad, what are you seeing?

Chad Westbrook: And I love this because Greg and I go so back. Greg was one of my first coaches coming into this. So not to date it, but my respect for Greg is insane. See, I do see this a little bit differently than Greg though because when COVID came into play, I was sitting as a leader within a commercial roofing company and all of our capital went away and it didn't change the fact that we still had employees, we still had an operational business to run and service was really the backbone of that.

Right? So service as much as I was pushing it, that was my growth spot that, became the only revenue source. And I think that in my mind is what has really kickstarted the service side. And I think it's really opened up to the profitability and how service can be used to be able to grow customers well beyond just waiting for that GC bid invite or whatever else might be coming for the capital side.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, negotiated work has been always. I mean, I'm showing my age, but that is working with a lot of contractors and that was their prime thing. And once you realize that service really gets you into that negotiated work faster or easier, and with long-term relationships, it makes such a difference.

I have to tell you, Kerrick, I was just doing some judging for end of year competitions that are out there. Most of the imagery that was coming back was from drones that the contractors were pulling. So what do you see happening not just with service and maintenance overall, but with the use of technology for that?

Kerrick Willis: Oh, well first, I mean I wanted to acknowledge exactly what Greg and Chad were saying and honestly hit that from a little bit of the same perspective of myself with being a second generation roofer and being more on the production only side. And for me, a lot of times I never understood when I went to the military and got back from my father growing up, it was always normal for him.

They took winners off and stuff like that. So there was always this, I just never understood how are you supposed to feed your families? How is this all supposed to work? So as a business model, now that I'm in my own business and things like that, how do you keep cash flowing? How do you keep money coming in and all these things which then leads to how do you keep people busy? How do you feed their families? How do you hire good people that can be there 24 year round?

Because those kind of people normally don't want to work six months a year at 90 hours a week kind of thing. So you really have to start trying to figure out a way to pull dollars in and keep the business going. So and I think service really helps to do that throughout the winter and helps keep the doors open and keep cash flowing.

But like you were saying on the drone side of things, I mean it's now we're starting to get into winter, so anything steep slope is normally a no-go. And just the other week I was helping scan a multifamily building about six units there that are 40 feet in the air. Just having two people there versus me, myself going there, flying the drone around and then even adding in the time for me to process turn things into a 3D model and all that, I'm still at half the time the guys are in the field.

So it's reducing the crew time and resources, but on top of that, you are reducing things in terms of safety and stuff like that because there are plenty of times where as me and Greg were talking a little bit before this, that there are a lot of times where you don't always need boots on the roof. And that's where I try to say it's a tool for, I'm not advocating for one way or the other. It's just simply there's times and places for that. And when we start looking at it that way, I think it starts opening up a lot more doors and options.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. No, I love that. I think it is always to Greg's... Greg, to your initial point, it's a convergence. I mean, we started seeing it growing. It totally took off with COVID and now with technology, it's like this whole, it's just kind of keeps stair stepping up on the demand coming from owners and the contractors wanting to provide that. So Greg, when you were approached about ServiceCon and speaking at ServiceCon, talk a little bit about that conference and really how it's important for the contractors out there.

Greg Hayne: Well, first of all, one of the premises of this, of people that are coming is they want to get better at service. I don't think that any of us think that we're there to convince people that they need to do that. I think that that, the convincing is already done. And from my perspective, one of the great things that the ServiceCon can do is you're going to have all of the best thought leaders in service in one place.

Chad and I, we technically are competitors, but I don't think either one of us view it that way. And then Tracey Donels is going to be there. I think Bryan Mitchell is going to be there. And all of us kind of do the same thing and we all approach it from slightly different ways. So attendees are going to have one stop shopping in terms of getting the best opinions, the best advice on how to build a service department.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I mean, when you look at the lineup of people who are coming, like you said, it's pretty impressive across the board. Chad, talk to us a little bit about ServiceCon and just tell us about this event and your experience and your speaking.

Chad Westbrook: So the coolest part for me about ServiceCon is that this is a workshop, right? Like Greg said, it's not about convincing someone that service is the best thing ever. People are going to be there. Right? It's service driven individuals that know that it's going to be a piece of their business.

So when you can show up and have the ability to have someone like Greg speaking on his topic, someone like me speaking from my experience and then everybody else who's there, you're going to be able to get all the different growth stages as well as, like I said, have those thought leaders together to be able to figure out, "Okay, what is my plan with service? How do I plan to implement it?"

And the biggest takeaway that I love about it is that this isn't just a show up and listen to someone speak. It is a workshop. Right? You're going to be able to take stuff home, you're going to be able to implement it into your business. And that's where my part, I'm zero to one. Right?

So in order to start a service business, service isn't just something that just happens overnight. There's a process behind it, there's a purpose behind it. And that's going to be a lot what I'm talking about is if you're going to start a business or you want to be able to get into that real extreme growth side, you got to make sure that you have a team behind you to be able to execute the processes and utilize the technology, all the different stuff that comes together.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, I agree. I mean, that, getting that big picture really and getting your teams to go in there. And I also like to engage, right? Not just listen, I like to engage. And that's a lot of people. I think a lot of us in this industry learn better that way. Kerrick, talk a little bit about the technology portion of ServiceCon and what that's all kind of bringing to on this event.

Kerrick Willis: Yeah, sure. I mean, definitely that's the beauty of being, I guess the young one coming in here so to speak. It's bringing in the benefit of me being a second generation roofer and that's rooftop experience. I've got a ton of field time, basically almost all my roofing time under my father's in the field. And taking that and then merging that with technology is so important because I believe as an owner of a technology company that we have to get in there and be on the front lines and integrate that technology on the front lines.

And that's part of what we're wanting to do. And that's part of what they've asked me to be there for is to showcase that the drones aren't that hard. That once we get the licensing and things like that out of the way, we get some of the roadblocks out of the way, it really isn't very hard. They almost fly themselves. And a lot of times if you can follow a checklist, you can use technology. And I hear so many times roofers or other people can't use technology or they don't know how to do this or the other.

And I just think it's so much fear of people just being afraid of things. Because if you can use a cell phone at all, if you can use a smartphone pretty well, you can use a computer, you can use and do all these things we're doing. So I really want people to come with an open mind with a lot of these technologies and processes, because it's a lot of processes that everybody will be showing.

But there is always technologies and systems in the background, and I think that's extremely important to be aware of and how important those are for your base layers of managing things and pulling in data, but also making sure that we're not creating a series of too much technology.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Data, data is the key, right? I mean, so, so important for everyone. So everyone out there, just so you know, this is March 12 through the 14th, 2025. It's going to be in Houston, Texas. And another person who's going to be on the stage is myself.

We are going to be putting together a contractor panel so that we can really kind of get from the contractors, although we have lots right here too, but from the contractors talking about what they're doing with service and maintenance. We also have, as Greg said, Tracey Donels is going to be there. We have, I'm looking Jeff Broderick and Cody Kline are also speaking and Will Riley. So a lot of people, if you go to their website at servicecon.com, you're going to be able to see all these speakers.

But this is why we had these gentlemen here today because we really want to kind of talk through as you are going to there, what are you kind of looking for? So one of the things I want to talk about are strategies. So and you all kind of talked on this, right? The strategies of do you bring your team, do you come by yourself, how do you do. And then once you're there, how do you take home something you can really use? And Greg, you are nodding yes. What do you think?

Greg Hayne: So and I'm sure that Chad will start smiling as soon as he hears me say this. The number one key to building a successful service organization is to have proper engagement from the owner of the roofing company. And so if you're listening to this as a service manager, tell your boss he needs to come. If you're an owner, you need to come. If you want to take your service manager along with you, it's fine, but you need to come.

This is something that needs to have proper engagement from the highest levels of an organization. And what I see happening in the training work that I've done, and I know this is the case for Chad, the better the owner engagement you have, the more likely our initiatives are going to stick and things are going to happen. Isn't that right, Chad?

Chad Westbrook: It is. It's embedded into the culture. Right? That's a huge part of service. Service isn't just something that just happens on the side. Or if it is, it's not going to be something that's going to be influential into your business. So I 100% agree.

Greg Hayne: Yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And is it, I mean, the owner, the service manager, anybody else? I mean, should you be looking at some of your super users, your kind of some of the folks? Because there's a lot of networking that's going to go on at this event. What are some of your recommendations that way, Greg?

Greg Hayne: To who?

Chad Westbrook: [inaudible 00:16:21] start.

Greg Hayne: So I think it starts, as I've already said, it starts with owners. And if there are service managers, I think the service managers can benefit from coming so they can talk with the owners. Because things have to start at the highest level. In terms of super users, if you've got a coordinator that is more than just a simple coordinator, but someone that actually is sort of like a general manager level individual, they could benefit from coming.

But there's also, in my mind, salespeople. The vice president of sales could benefit from coming because one of the things that Kerrick and I were talking about before anybody got on is that I think roofing contractors are completely missing the boat on the opportunities for them to leverage drone technology in their businesses. I think that we see a lot of the larger contractors taking pretty pictures of their roofs with drones, and that's good.

But I think there's a lot of operational things that can be done in terms of inspections, progress reports, so forth, that can be better done with drones that will actually save contractors money. And the service manager, when he comes by himself, will not pick up on any of that. Okay? The boss may, but the service manager won't. A sales guy can go, "Oh, we can do this. Oh, we need to be doing this." And they can provide some initiatives.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Chad Westbrook: Agree.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Go ahead, Chad.

Chad Westbrook: No, I agree 100%. So if there's anything that I can communicate to anybody who's coming, number one, be humble enough to learn. Right? That's what we're all coming here to be able to see different perspectives of way something's going to happen. You're going to like something, you might not like something, at the end of the day, you're getting the thought leaders inside one room and there is no perfect or exact way that service needs to be performed. Right? It's based upon the people you have, the culture and your business, all that stuff.

I would encourage everybody to be able to figure out what's the biggest problem that they need to solve within service, or what's the biggest goal that they need to achieve in service within 2025 and to come to ServiceCon looking to solve that or get direction on what that's going to be. So if that happens from the peer-to-peer interactions at the tables, if that happens from the speakers, wherever it is, just figure that out first. Right? And if you can start figuring that out, that's going to be part of the success, right? The take home value that you're going to get.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love that. I love that. That's so true. Yeah, I know. So Kerrick, okay, talk a little bit about what you're speaking about and who talking to that owner like Greg and Chad are talking about or to some of the other folks, what should people be coming to ServiceCon to really be thinking about around technology?

Kerrick Willis: Well, for me, I think it's anybody. Primarily, I mean, what I look for in people, I just like to use the word leaders. And to Greg's point, if the owners maybe not there, you have to have somebody who is a true leader. And that's normally what owners are, they're builders of other leaders willing to grab the bull by the horn, so to speak and put it in the place that needs to be and get the things done and make sure the points are hitting everything else.

But along with your leaders, I do like to bring in some low level people who could be coming up, people who you want to possibly bring deeper into your business. That could be that young blood that you see potential in. Let's see what they can do, let's see what they pick up on. Because I'm always trying to, yes, it's a top down approach.

But at the same time we have to push from the bottom up because if the guys aren't on board, if they don't see it useful, then now we're getting resistance.

So if we can lessen the resistance from the bottom at the same time we're hitting it top and bottom, it simplifies a lot of things. And that's how I really like to approach a lot of technology things with the guys is I just want to make your lives easier. I've been where you are. The work sucks. It's hard. It's not normally fun.

It's not normally a lot of people's first choice of what they want to do. So my goal is to try to make it easier and better for them and not add another problem to them. For the most part, it makes your life easier. It's like Greg was talking about a second ago with being in less safe, more unsafe areas and things like that.

You don't have to do that. You get to spend more time just taking a picture versus walking around or flying a drone for 20 minutes versus walking all over a roof for an hour. So there's advantages that it does for you, so you get to go home at the end of the day and things like that as well. So I like to approach it at all levels. If someone's got the availability and time, send them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Well, you know what, Kerrick? Let's take that one step further because let's really talk about the power of networking. I was very fortunate in my career to work with National Roofing Partners and be able to sit in on meetings with service managers from all over the country. I learned a lot and I don't even do service, and they learned a lot from each other. So talk a little bit about that, that power of networking, especially for that younger generation as they're kind of finding peers out there who they can talk to.

Kerrick Willis: Yeah. I mean, that's something that my father wishes he told me at a younger age and taught us was that networking and how important it is to network with the people around you, get to know people and all these things, even if it is just listening in. You never know when that piece of advice or that important piece of information is going to matter. Like they always say, we all have different perspectives and perspective is a direct result of experience.

So I've had that fortunate experience where I have spent more time with my father where I got to go over things like blueprints and the back end reason of why we do certain things. And I think that's very important because it's what you're going to get from a lot of leaders, especially presenters and stuff like that is not just the what, is the why behind it.

And for me, that's the most important piece is the why, because that's how I connect the dots and understand everything. And then if you don't understand everything and you're there, you're going to be in a position to network with those around you and ask questions. And I think one of the best things you can do as a young individual is admit you don't know something and ask for help. I think that's going to open people up more and make them more willing to talk to you and want to help you if you're willing to admit and look for that knowledge and seek help.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You are just starting out. I mean, we all do. And even it doesn't matter how long you've been around, you're all still learning too. Chad, talk a little bit about that networking piece because I think that can be one of the most powerful things that comes out of some of these conferences.

Chad Westbrook: Without a doubt, yes. And I'll talk myself as an attendee, right? Especially you talk about IRE or any other events that are going on. As soon as someone's done speaking, the conversation begins of, "Hey, could we do this?" Right? And not just internally maybe with the people that you brought, but externally.
Right? So as we get those opportunities to be able to not only hear the speakers and hear the topics that are there, the coolest part is that everybody's there for the same initiative. When you get into IRE, it's a very mixed, right? I might have a residential contractor to me, might have a spec contractor.

These are all like-minded individuals to where those roundtables, right? And those different opportunities to be able to speak with those peers should harvest a lot of good ideas that again, you can take home, implement. And I go back to the workshop thing. That was the coolest thing for me, right? Is we're here to be able to work on our business and go home and implement something, not just listen to it, it's shiny. Right? And go back to what it was before we were there.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And that's really what kind of comes out of peer groups. And I know there will be some competitors at this thing, but Greg, we're talking about one, you do peer groups all the time, to have this kind of platform with all those people. Talk to me a little bit about that.

Greg Hayne: Well, as I'm listening to this, I am reminded of a peer group meeting I had many years ago where a contractor came in and this was a contractor that already had 10 service trucks and already knew what good service was. And he announced that he had increased his service revenue over the last year by 40%, and everybody wanted to know what he had done.

And then he said, "Well, from that person," and he pointed across the table at somebody. He said, "I learned about something." And then he pointed to somebody else, "And then I learned this from them." And then he pointed to someone else and I said, "I learned this from them. And we did all three of those things. And as a result of that, our revenue went." Now that was revenue per truck went up 40%. Right?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Okay.

Greg Hayne: It's not that they added trucks, their revenue per truck went up. Right?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Greg Hayne: And so that's an example I think of how you can get a little bit from a lot of different people that makes a difference. And that's not purely networking, but the other thing that happens in our peer groups is everyone acknowledges that half of the value of the peer groups is dinner or lunch.

We have agendas, we bring our problems to get help with, but then we sit at dinner and we start talking and there's other things that come up that maybe don't merit a conversation with the whole group or maybe you sit with somebody that you know and that's a networking function that also happens. Now that's just going on within the peer groups. But when you're at an event like ServiceCon, you have the opportunity to do that sort of thing too.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I know. And you really have to have the mindset. You have to sit down and go sit with people you don't know and start listening and asking questions.

Greg Hayne: Chad suggested you need to go with the plan of what your biggest problem is. And I want to add to that, most of these people don't know what their biggest problem is. They think they know, but they're not right. And so one of the other things that's going to happen at ServiceCon is that they're going to discover what service really is. Because service is not repair and maintenance and service is what you'd give to a customer. And frankly, it's got nothing to do with roofing.

The success of a service department is only very incidental related to roofing. It's all about other factors, communication, customer relationships, building relationships. Roofing is just a tiny piece of that. And most people don't understand that, which is why there's service departments never grow. And they're going to get a whole lot of that at ServiceCon because I know Chad will talk about that. I will talk about that. Tracey will talk about, probably everybody will talk about that.

Chad Westbrook: I love that. I love that. So Greg, the way I kind of separate it, right? There's stuff we do and then there's value we deliver. Right? The stuff we do has nothing. That's just stuff that we do, right?

Greg Hayne: Right.

Chad Westbrook: Everything that we do, right? We get into those actions of what is the value we're delivering when we do that stuff.

Greg Hayne: That's right.

Chad Westbrook: I know that's very high level, but they're two completely different things.

Greg Hayne: Yeah.

Chad Westbrook: Love it.

Greg Hayne: Completely different things. And until everyone in the service department understands that, you're going to struggle.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So my next question was, as you all are looking at contractors going to ServiceCon, what do you see as some of the largest, biggest challenges in 2025 for service and maintenance? So you answered the first question is understanding what service is.

What do you all see as challenges that the contractor should actually have in mind to that point, they may think they have these challenges, but I love what you just said, Greg, you're going to find out you have challenges you didn't even realize you had challenges about.

Chad Westbrook: Oh, yeah.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. So what are some of those things that they should be thinking about?

Greg Hayne: Well, in my mind, the single biggest drawback operationally for the successful operation of a service department is the lack of proper training of the roof techs on the use of technology. When the guys walk off a roof, they should be done. They should have all their pictures taken, they should have all the pictures documented, they should have their hours and really they should be able to click the button and the office should be able to send the invoice every single time.

And that's not the reality of it. And that is absolutely the fault of the ownership and the leadership of these organizations that don't devote the energy and time they need to the proper training and execution of how to make the technology work the way that technology needs to work. And after you've trained them, if they won't do it, you fire them. Right, Chad?

Chad Westbrook: This is real. This is real, Greg. You guys are getting real Greg. I love it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Right here. I'm like going, "Okay, here we are." Chad, follow up on that. Yeah.

Greg Hayne: But look, it's ridiculous. If I have a hundred thousand square foot re-roof to do, and I've done this at the IRE, I stand up. And this is a service conversation we're having right now. We have a hundred thousand square re-roof we're going to do. We're going to put down a half inch HD board.

We're going to RhinoBond 60 mill TP over the top of that. And what I say to all these roofers, I say, "Would it be okay if they oh, left out half the screws?" And they say, "No." And I said, "Would it be okay if all the welds were bad and you had to strip?" "No, that's not okay." Yet they allowed their roof techs or service techs to take bad pictures or not enough pictures.

It's the same thing. And they wouldn't tolerate this kind of performance on the production side, but they, well, yeah, but good service techs are hard to find. But you know what they do on the production side? That we're going to fire that crew if they do that again. But they won't do that on the service side. [inaudible 00:30:50] get off my soapbox.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So come ready to the [inaudible 00:30:52]. I like it.

Greg Hayne: I'll get off my soapbox.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: No, I think that's great, honestly. How you look at it, Chad?

Chad Westbrook: So Greg's talking about firing people. No, I'm kidding. From my side, so Greg went very much into the details. I love it. I think the biggest problem, I mean, one, we know labor, right? We're not going to find a great foreman. We got to grow a great foreman. So my question to every single contractor is, "How is your helper? The helper that you have right now in the truck that you hired last week, how is he going to be your superintendent in X amount of time?" That's my question to them.

"How is your helper going to be a superintendent?" We got to create that career ladder. Now, the training and everything Greg's talking about, absolutely. That's part of that career ladder. So Greg, you went, right? Into it. So I love that. But you're right. If you can't make it out of taking the right photos, how do you ever plan to be able to grow a career within this industry leading people in what should be one of the best service companies within that metro, that state, that region, whatever it might be?

Greg Hayne: It's not that hard.

Chad Westbrook: You mean I got to turn it sideways? I'm kidding.

Greg Hayne: Yes.

Chad Westbrook: This is going to be fun.

Kerrick Willis: I also, I think a big thing, I think a big thing too comes down to and this is just on my side and it comes from the military. It's having the right leader in place that is able to, I don't care if it feels like it's you're bothering someone every day, I don't care what it takes. So it's stopping what you're doing now. Okay, now after every service ticket, call me. Until we get this right, you're going to call me and then we're going to baby step you.

Because it's also the owners and the leaders understanding A, can you do it? Because I don't think you should ever ask someone to do something that you can't do or understand yourself. Because the guys are just going to push back on you. And then B, yes, everybody has the capability. So when you're showing your competence in it, and then you're just, yes, it feels like micromanaging, but it's the same thing you would do with a new guy.

Like Greg said, you got a new guy over there putting in fasteners, "Hey man, six per board." Next day, "Hey man, don't forget six per board." And you're going to walk over there and make sure he put in six per board and check them. It's the same thing. Yes, it feels dumb. Yes, some people don't like to do it, but that's what leadership is. That's what management is.

That's part of getting more power. You're moving up, you have less time for yourself and it's more time spent on everybody else and managing things and making sure things are done right. And also business owners, giving people that time, making sure that that's important. And maybe that that comes to where I want to work with people like Greg all the time to find out what's all the data. Let me sit here and find out and quantify what the cost is of someone not putting photos in.

And then we've got to go back and I've got to take three people's office time, which some of those people are paid more than that field guy to go find those photos and put them in just so we can send an invoice. And I think it's like if you could start showing them very clearly, and that's why I love data and technology, is I could show people exactly what's going on and where and where the mistakes are made.

And that's kind of my favorite part. Not to be able to catch someone, but to be able to help train someone, to be able to show them where our mistakes are so that way we can close the gaps, fix it and then grow from there. Because it's just simple that way.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. And really to have, I mean, as people are coming to ServiceCon to look at this technology, I mean to all of your points, to everybody, using the technology to take pictures, I know it sounds crazy, but that's what the phones are for. That's what the iPads are for. That's what needs to happen upon the roof, to use the drones to be able to do those type of things.

I think all of that is going to be a great opportunity to learn from all of you, all the speakers who are here today, but also to learn from each other, the contractors and what everybody else is doing as we go through that. So okay, I love this podcast so much. This has been so much fun. I love it when we get Greg really saying what he thinks, because you know that doesn't happen that often. So...

Greg Hayne: Oh, then they're going to enjoy ServiceCon.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: They're going to love it.

Greg Hayne: They're going to enjoy ServiceCon then.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You are going to love it. So okay, I just want to... we got to wrap this up. So what I want to do again is remind everybody that ServiceCon is March 12th through the 14th, and it is in Houston. You can register now and you should, because there's a lot of great things going on. And so you know, all of us have promo codes that you can use to get some special rates. So check out.

We're going to everybody tell you where you can get that information. I'll tell you, you can get it off RoofersCoffeeShop. You can find it on there, but be able to register, get this into your plan and understand. So gentlemen, here's what I want to end with. I want to end with what are you most excited about for ServiceCon? So Chad, let's start with you. What are you most excited about?

Chad Westbrook: You want the real answer?

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, the real answer.

Chad Westbrook: [inaudible 00:36:01] that's what I'm excited about.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: He knew you were going to say that.

Chad Westbrook: Right here we get the group back together and we going to have a great time. We get to talk about service, and I'm truly excited just about being around a group of people that have a same initiative, the same passion for service as I do. That's what I'm excited about.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. Greg?

Greg Hayne: I'm excited because I am creating a presentation that I have never done before, just for ServiceCon.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Greg Hayne: Going to approach the whole topic completely differently that no one will see coming.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: So everybody should sign up just for that right now. I'm telling you. There you go. That's awesome.

Chad Westbrook: Right.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Wow.

Greg Hayne: I'm going to wreck the status quo.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Why are none of us looking surprised?

Chad Westbrook: I'm in.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: We're in. Let's do it. Okay, Kerrick, what are you most excited about?

Kerrick Willis: Oh, I have to copy Chad, but being a younger person in the industry, I'm excited to meet everybody. I've never really got that chance to meet so many other thought leaders and be in a position where I'm also recognized myself. So it's nice to be able to shake some hands and really get to meet everybody and really kind of see how 2025 goes from there.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I tell you, I am excited to be with all of you. It's going to be my first ServiceCon. I'm really excited. Will Riley and the team over at CenterPoint are doing some amazing, amazing work to really bring all of this together. And I'm excited. I'm excited for it. So gentlemen, I'm going to see you in March. I'm also excited about the panel, so we're going to have some contractors up there. I'm sure all of you'll be in the audience asking questions, so I will forewarn them so that they're ready for you.

Chad Westbrook: Right.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That should be good. So thank you so much again to CenterPoint Connect. Please check it out at servicecon.com. And gentlemen, thank you so much for being here today. This has been an awesome podcast.

Greg Hayne: Thanks, Heidi.

Chad Westbrook: Thank you.

Kerrick Willis: Thank you.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: And thank you all for listening. Please check out the ServiceCon directory. You can find information on how to register. You can get that RoofersCoffeeShop promo code. Oh, by the way, real quick, Chad, your website, how can people get a hold of you and find out more?

Chad Westbrook: Servicealignment.com, just how it sounds. Service and alignment.com.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: There you go. Greg?

Greg Hayne: Haynecoachinggroup.com.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: .com. There you go. And Kerrick?

Kerrick Willis: You can find me at gsi3D.com.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Perfect. And you can find all of these gentlemen on the directory for ServiceCon on RoofersCoffeeShop. So check it out and check out all of the speakers and get registered. So thank you again so much for being here today.

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