S2:E39- Darci Kunard- PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of an interview with Darci Kunard, Senior Product Manager of DuraMaster. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast here.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello, and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. This is Heidi Ellsworth, a partner with RoofersCoffeeShop. And I am here today with Darci Kunard, the senior product manager for DuraMaster, and also sales and business development with Titebond and Franklin International, which are the same companies. But Darci, I had been so excited to work with her for the last couple of years. This lady has so much experience when it comes to sales and marketing, and really understanding how to launch products into the industry. Darci, welcome to the show.

Darci Kunard: Thank you, Heidi. Thanks so much for having me.

Heidi Ellsworth: This is some of my favorites, because I love talking sales and marketing. So, this could be really a lot of fun today.

Darci Kunard: I think so.

Heidi Ellsworth: So, okay. Let's start out with, for everybody listening, a little bit about you. Can you just share what you're doing, your job role, your company, and then a little bit of your history?

Darci Kunard: Sure. So, I work for Franklin International, which is the home of the Titebond brand, the Titebond branded glues, construction adhesives, sealants, flooring, and all kinds of specialty products. So, been doing that for two and a half years now. And I came from another sealant company in the industry, where I was at Sashco Sealants for almost seven years. So, just super excited to stay in this industry. And I actually really like sealants. I know that's kind of a weird thing to say. But I find the chemistry of them fascinating. And users are usually so excited about a product that works and that performs, and they're very loyal to good products. So, that's what I'm very passionate about.

Heidi Ellsworth: love that. Because when we say to people, "We love roofing", they kind of look at us strange. And then, "I love sealants." That takes it even one step further.

Darci Kunard: [inaudible 00:02:20], I didn't start out in this industry. I actually came from biotech.

Heidi Ellsworth: [crosstalk 00:02:27].

Darci Kunard: So, my background is in biochemistry, but chemistry of sealants is very similar in terms of how chemicals interact with one another. So, I was able to parlay that into the building materials industry. And I just love it, it's a great industry.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Darci Kunard: [crosstalk 00:02:44].

Heidi Ellsworth: I agree. It is so cool. So, I think a lot of people out there really don't always know what is a senior product manager, right? Or even what is a product manager. To be honest, I didn't really understand that role until I went to EagleView. And so, I would love to have you just share a little bit about, I think this is important to contractors to understand that there's people like you who are really focused in, like you said, on the chemistry, on the performance. So, maybe talk a little bit about that role of a product manager.

Darci Kunard: Sure, of course. So, a lot of that is a mixture of sales and marketing. So, you need the marketing background to be able to understand what a product mix is, what that looks like, how to go to market with a new product. If you have an existing product, how to make sure that people are aware of that product. And are there different ways you can get your message out to your target audience? Another part of that is developing new products. So, what does the market need? It's never made sense to me, these companies who just come out with products all the time, and is there really a need for that? So, my kind of philosophy has always been, "What does the user need, or what does the customer need that would make their life better, make their work easier? Are there problems they're having now?" So, I really delve into the research on the field side, figure out what kind of products that they're using now, are there any issues, would their life be better if they had a new contraption for lack of a better word. There's just so much that goes into that. And then there's the company side where you have to do the product label and the packaging. What's it going to come in? For caulks for example, do you want a removable nozzle? Do you not? What's the advantages? It costs a little bit more but would that improve the user's life? So, you just have to do a lot of different, I would guess, project management and juggling what's happening in both externally, in the field, and then internally. And then of course writing all the literature. Is one [inaudible 00:05:05] more important than another to the end user? And then crafting the messaging. So, roofers for example might really care about, "Does this perform on wet surfaces or underwater or in zero degree weather?" Versus a guy who's installing trim and molding, what does he care about? Probably easy cleanup, super quick to dry so he can paint it right away. It's just figuring out what messaging will work with your target audience.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love that. And I think for contractors to understand how much goes into that and the companies that truly take the time to understand their pain points and their needs, and that's what you do all the time. That is on... So, tell us a little bit, I would love to hear kind of your experience with the Franklin Sealants, especially let's talk about DuraMaster, the new product that you're just launching right now, or you're in the process of getting it out there and you've been doing so much work on it. Kind of talk to us about that and how you worked with the contractors or the research in the field, and what this product's going to do for them.

Darci Kunard: Of course, yeah. I mean, I'm very excited about DuraMaster. It is the first elastomeric sealant with 100% joint movement, and I'll kind of talk to you what that means. But how we set out to do that is Franklin has a massive lab space in our Columbus, Ohio plant. And that lab space is just designated to come up with new, innovative chemistries, polymers. We're actually one of the few manufacturers that makes our own polymers, so that's kind of an exciting advantage we have. So, we set out to improve upon a very basic and old technology. And we thought, "Okay, how can we make this technology better?" And we never really thought, "Oh, we want to make a sealant with 100% joint movement." We never thought that. But just using our chemistries and making it a very low VOC product, making it a very green product. There's no warning labels on it, there's no caustic agents or chemicals in it that would trigger a warning label or the Prop 65 label. So, we kind of set out to improve upon something that's been around for a long time. And then we do a sense of testing both in-house and we send it out to testing at different labs. And once we decided, "Yeah, this formula is great." That's when we took it to our field testing. So, we did 18 months of field testing with this product, so all throughout the United States and Canada, and just got feedback. What did people like about it? What did they not like? What were they saying about it that we thought, "Yes, we could use that to market it"? And with that field testing, you come up with a few features that might need to be improved. You get some feedback about, "Hey, that color doesn't work for me." Or, "I really liked the moveable nozzle, but I hate the foil seal." Whatever it is. So we incorporate all that and then really come up with a great product. So, we launched this product, DuraMaster, in Canada in January, and then we launched it in the United States in June. So it's very new, but [inaudible 00:08:21] two and a half years in the making before you can really launch something. And that's from the time you field test it, til the time you can put it in a nice, pretty package and have some cute videos. Then put it up on [inaudible 00:08:36], and get your distributors to bring it in. So, it's a very long process. But we feel it's very worth it to do it right.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think that shows in the quality of the product, and the quality of what it does for roofing installation. So, I'm really interested, in your field testing, what was the feedback from the roofing contractors?

Darci Kunard: Well, we didn't see a lot of feedback from roofing contractors because it is a water-based product, so it's not something that people would use on a roof. That's usually more of our WeatherMaster line, which is a reactor product, so we make that polymer as well in Ohio. So, that's more for roofing applications. DuraMaster on the other hand is great for windows, doors, siding, trim, molding, any area that you can think that needs to be sealed. It's a very multi-purpose sealant in that aspect. But not really great for the roof.

Heidi Ellsworth: So, exteriors? With the exterior contractors?

Darci Kunard: Yes. It can be your exteriors absolutely. And it does have extremely strong adhesion to most any substrate, which is great.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well then that's important, because look at how much our roofing contractors do on the exteriors of the building. I mean, whether they're a full exterior contractor doing windows, doors, siding, all of that. Or just, I mean, every roof there's going to be something that they're going to have to do with soffits or dormers or something along that line. So, having this kind of product that really moves and performs. Yeah. So, what did you hear from some of the more of the exterior contractors?

Darci Kunard: So, we heard a lot about areas where the siding was moving quite a bit against a window or a door joint, and they were having trouble getting a sealant that could withstand movement like that. What they like about it of course, is the water cleanup because it is a water-based product, so it cleans up really nice. It tools very easily, so you just need a very light touch and you get a really nice bead when you're applying it, so people really liked that. Of course, the removable nozzle, which is great for pros, it makes you just fly through your job. You don't have to [inaudible 00:10:49] cut each nozzle. Which we heard that that was a pain point with a lot of pros, they said, "We hate this. We hate having to cut the nozzle." Which I know sounds very trivial, but if it could make their job easier, we want to do that for them.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, that's cool. Little things. Little things that increase productivity every day.

Darci Kunard: Absolutely, yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Darci Kunard: We got a lot of feedback that, so it's a Class 100 sealant, so that means it expands 100% of the joint size, and contracts 50%. And the feedback that we got was, "Wow, this stuff really is elastic, elastomeric or flexible, because it does that expansion contraction." And honestly, a lot of sealants do that, like our WeatherMaster line is a Class 50, so it expands 50% of the joint size and contracts 50%. But what's unique about DuraMaster is it can really handle that movement. And we got feedback from contractors of competitive products that, "Yeah, we tried it, they said it would stretch this much, but we really have noticed that joint movement is much more important than the stretch." So, we found that very interesting feedback as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That is cool. I find this fascinating. I know, again, going back to that. But I love it when things are contractor-driven, or driven by the user, user-driven I guess, on really solving problems for their pain points and coming up with things that maybe they haven't even thought of yet. So, along that line, Darci, and you mentioned WeatherMaster, I would love for you to kind of just share with everyone the full line. Kind of for roofing, for exterior contractors, because that's really who are listening today. What do you recommend that they have in the back of their pickup trucks?

Darci Kunard: Well, I think one of everything we make would be great. But [crosstalk 00:12:45]. Titebond is really known for its wood glue, which is where Titebond's been in the industry since 1935, and that's really what we started out with. So, a lot of our glues are very well known in the industry, very, very popular among any professional, across woodworking, cabinetry, builders. It's just a very pervasive brand, which is great. And so that's really the backbone of our products. And we've set out to really expand upon that with construction adhesives and sealants. So, our construction adhesives are great, we have one for almost every application, which is just phenomenal. So, a lot of people shop by project, and we know that, so if it's labeled for drywall adhesive, we have that. If it's labeled as a multi-purpose or a quick grab adhesive, we have those as well. And that kind of translates to our sealant line where we have our WeatherMaster lineup, which is a all-weather, apply in wet surfaces, zero degrees. And we have a multitude of colors across that line. And then we go into multipurpose sealants, we have technologies for each application. And then we have our specialty sealants as well, like our Acoustical Smoke & Sound Sealant. So, we really set out to create a very robust line of products that are great for pro users. And then we finish it off, we have a foam line as well in terms of the sealant line. And then we've got flooring adhesives, and then specialty adhesives, like FRP for example.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow, wow. Yeah, Titebond has such an awesome brand. Having been... I've seen it everywhere, everywhere. And so, maybe let's just talk a little bit, I mean, with all those great products and everything, from your sales and marketing and product background, how can contractors kind of use brands like Titebond or... I mean, I know a homeowner maybe doesn't always get it, but it seems like contractors talking about that and talking about the productivity and the quality, it can make a difference using brands in your sales pitch, don't you think?

Darci Kunard: I do think that it really can make a difference. And a lot of people do know Titebond for their wood glues. And if you do know that, then it's kind of you've got this trust in the other products that Titebond makes are going to be equally great in performance and durability, they're going to be long-lasting. And they're going to do what we say that they're going to do. I think there's a lot of people out there who want to make sure that their contractors or their roofers are using products that are trusted. And that's really what Titebond's about. So, I think the brand is very important. We did a brand study last year, and that was feedback that we got from contractors throughout the United States, that they do care about the brand that they're using. They want to know that the company is standing behind them, and they're not just using the cheapest thing that they found.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I think I'm seeing that a lot. And things are changing, as we all know. And with COVID, with everything that's going on, we are going into such a remote selling, remote marketing phase. And so, I love the idea of kind of bringing it back to some of the more hands-on. I love that, what you're saying about everybody knows the wood glue, because how many homeowners have a shop out back and probably know the Titebond brand? So, as contractors are kind of starting to look at that full exterior and to differentiate themselves, what do you see as... how can they talk a little bit more about joint movement? I know this sounds kind of crazy, but overall I think contractors need to differentiate themselves now more than ever as they are talking over video, or they are digitally selling things out there to their customers.

Darci Kunard: Yeah. I mean, they can definitely incorporate products that they're using. What they can really talk about is that longterm performance, and what that means to their customer. Because what does the customer care about? They want it to look good, of course. And they want it to not leak, right? If you're doing a roof or you're installing a new window or a new door, the last thing you want is a bunch of air or bugs or water coming in. So, I think that's what the homeowner, I'm a homeowner, I know you are too, and that's what I care about.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Darci Kunard: When someone's putting the new roof on it's like, "Okay, what products are you using?" Because I care. But your average homeowner probably does not care as much about the products, they really care about what's the benefit to them. So, if you can explain to them this is a sealant that can withstand this amount of joint movement. Or we have two sealants that are Miami-Dade County approved, which means they can withstand the hurricane force winds. That's really important, especially if you live in an area like I do in Colorado where we get hail storms and we get [inaudible 00:18:08] and we have wild weather where one day it's 96 degrees and the next day it's 32 and snowing. So, when you're talking about sealants, we talk about that expansion and contraction for a reason, because you need your sealants to perform that way. And especially in the extreme weather or as the season's changing. Even now as you're doing all your weatherproofing and winterizing of your house.

Heidi Ellsworth: Ah, yeah. Those contractors out there who have service programs who are doing fall and spring inspections and really making sure everything is great. I mean, that is such a great way to differentiate your business. And then to have the right products to be able to really show the homeowners that you are weatherizing their homes, then they can be ready for winter.

Darci Kunard: Absolutely. I mean, right now in Colorado people are coming around and cleaning their gutters because they get so full of junk over the fall as all the leaves get in there and the pine [inaudible 00:19:12] and all that. And that's a great time to make sure that your gutters are sealed properly. And we offer a WeatherMaster Gutter & Seam Sealant, which is just great because it can be wet, after they just power washed it out they can apply it if there's some leaks. So, it's a great time to be inspecting stuff around your house or have someone do it for you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I want to talk just a little bit about, with your expertise, I want to talk a little bit about sales, and how... I mean, you were talking about during your launches with DuraMaster currently and the other launches that you've done, a big part of what you do is to train the sales team. And I would love to kind of talk to the roofing contractors about the importance of working with different salespeople. Whether that's manufacturer's reps, or company sales people, but people who really understand the products, because they've gone through training with a product manager like you. I mean, all that time is spent to really make sure they know what's going on. What do you recommend for contractors on reaching out to salespeople, getting in touch with them, kind of really utilizing those resources?

Darci Kunard: Of course, yeah. I mean, that's a great topic, especially now in the time of COVID, right? Because usually I'm out in the field with the reps and we're visiting customers and I'm learning about their different markets and whether or not this product is going to be a great fit. Because not all products are for every market, so we know that going into it. And it was interesting having to force everyone to go on Zoom, because not everyone learns that way. Some people learn hands-on, some people learn by talking, some people learn by listening, some people learn by reading. So, it was interesting to force people to do the Zooms of course, so that they can get the initial information. But just working, I worked with each rep individually and found that that was... I know it seems daunting to some people who have a ton of reps. But it's kind of meeting them where they are and how they learn. And some people, I mean, I literally have a rep who is in Texas and he said, "Send me six cases of product and I'm going to just have a great time and use it myself." And another guy has a bunch on the side of his house, just for fun, just see how it performs in his weather. So, it just kind of depends on the rep. And I've always found, "Okay, let's meet them where they are and help their learning style." But also provide them with as much material as possible. So, whether it's videos or webinars or just actual marketing material, we have samples and kits for example, and of course, one of the most generous sample programs in the industry. So, really allow the contractors to try the product before they commit to it. It's just interesting to see the different learning styles and get feedback as to, "Hey, that really worked." Or I have a couple of reps who text me on their way in to a customer, "Just want to make sure that I'm doing this right." And I'll answer back real quick. So, it's very different, so.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, it is different. And I really encourage the roofing contractors and roofing professionals out there, get with your distributors, get with your sales reps from Titebond, and really kind of understand the products. Because you just heard, they're getting all this great training, they really are understanding it, and there's videos, they're trying it on their own houses. It really can help your team to be able to utilize the product to its best ability. And one of the things I love that you've done, Darci, a lot with us at RoofersCoffeeShop is you do a free tube of the sealant or the adhesive so that people can try it. And that's been amazing. We've had some great feedback on those promotions with contractors actually getting their hands on it.

Darci Kunard: Oh, great. Yeah. And we do kits, they usually have two tubes in them. Or we'll do a whole case.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Darci Kunard: We sampled a custom home builder here in Colorado who I've known for a number of years, and I sampled him like 20 cases of this new product right when we were doing all the field testing. And it's been great. I've been able to go back and see how it's performing in the house and it looks amazing. So, it's kind of nice to know that Titebond really invests in that sampling program and really wants people to use the products, get it in their hands, because we know if you try it you're really going to like it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah. And I think that is the ultimate. And really for the contracting companies out there, taking the time to ask. A lot of times people don't even ask. They're like, "Well, oh no, we'll just stick with what we have." But there's a lot of solutions out there that might... And even in the same company may have one product, but with all of your innovation there could be something new that they don't even know about if they don't ask or don't go out and look. So, those are the kind of things that I love to see come out of product management, out of sales, and out of marketing, is when you're really helping the contractors to solve those pain points and differentiate themselves. Which is that's how we're going to all grow our businesses.

Darci Kunard: Absolutely. Well, the reps out there, they have so much more insight into their specific market. Because sealants, there are some sealants that are very regional, they don't ship out to California, or they don't ship to Florida, but they're in the Midwest. So it's very interesting, especially when I've been able to go to the market and see what's out there, and to be able to say, "Here's what we have in our line that could be an enhancement to what they're currently offering." Or maybe there's a great sealant out there that a lot of people don't see. So it's just interesting what the reps know and the information that they have.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I love this. You know, Darci, I just want to say thank you. I think people don't always put the correlation together. Marketing is marketing really. I mean, so for roofing contractors who are out there, as you're marketing your business, it really is about working with the professionals who are marketing, who are selling the products that are making up the systems that you're selling. So, getting to know your manufacturers, getting to know what I think pretty brilliant people like Darci, and visiting with them and talking with them, I think can make a real big difference in your marketing program, and obviously overall in your operations with the right products. So, I would recommend, and I would ask everyone to go to the Franklin directory on RoofersCoffeeShop. It has all of this information in there. You'll see the free samples, you'll see the videos, you'll see everything that you may need. And it will also get you to the website, which has everything. Everything you need. And like what Darci was talking about, those samples. So maybe talk just a little bit, Darci, how on the website or with their reps, how do they get, besides coming on to RoofersCoffeeShop, what are some other ways that they can get those samples?

Darci Kunard: Well, you can always contact me or Heidi. She can put you in touch with me.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Darci Kunard: [crosstalk 00:26:37] to our customer service, and they are extremely responsive, so they can send out some samples as well. You can also talk to your distributors. If there's a distributor that you have in your area, they can always access our products and get you some samples. So, it's just something that we really strive to make sure that it's easy for you to get access.

Heidi Ellsworth: Excellent. Excellent. And the DuraMaster, the WeatherMaster, all out. Obviously WeatherMaster has been out there for a long time, but it's all out in their roofing distribution. They can just ask for it. And we know Titebond's everywhere, so that... But if you can't find it locally, just get online and you'll find out where to buy it.

Darci Kunard: Absolutely. And we do have a couple distributors that sell on Amazon. We don't sell direct on Amazon, I know that's kind of the four-letter word of the day, Amazon. But it's nice to be able to quickly find products on there, so.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's excellent. That's excellent. And like I said, please visit their directory on RoofersCoffeeShop, you will find all kinds of great information about this company and about these quality, quality products. So Darci, thank you so much for being here today and thank you for sharing all your great knowledge.

Darci Kunard: Thank you so much for having me, Heidi. And I look forward to one day when we get to see each other again.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know. One of these shows coming up soon.

Darci Kunard: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you so much. And thank you all for listening today to another Roofing Road Trips with Heidi. Our podcast series, we have Stories from the Roof, Roofing Road Trips with Heidi, plus our RLWs and Coffee Conversations. So, please visit our Read Listen Watch section of the rooferscoffeeshop.com to listen to all of it the way you want to, when you want to. Have a great day. And thank you again for listening.