Service and Sales Integration - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with ill Riley of Centerpoint Connect and Chad Westbrook of Service Alignment. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the video!

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we're uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. Fasten your seatbelts and join us, as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth. Today, we are talking about what everyone is talking about in roofing and that is service programs, service and maintenance. I'll tell you what, every contractor wants to elevate their game when it comes to service and maintenance. We got the experts, Will Riley with Centerpoint Connect and Chad Westbrook with Service Alignment, to join us today to talk about this. This is so important.

Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Chad Westbrook: Thank you.

Will Riley: Thanks for having us.

Chad Westbrook: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I am so excited to have both of you. Before we dive in and start talking about all this, let's start with some introductions. Will, if you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your company, that'd be great.

Will Riley: Yeah. I really started in 2010 on the software end, implementing roofing contractors, a couple hundred of them. Really, for the first seven years, implement contractors on roofing software exposed me to this service leading mentality that I was really attracted to. I saw a lot of contractors that were implementing a service leading initiative, I'll call it, seemed to me to be really successful. I learned as much as I could outside in.

2017, got an opportunity to go work for a commercial roofing contractor out of Fort Worth. A replacement contractor, that did about 12 million. Dustin wanted to grow through service. What a great opportunity. I got to sink my teeth into one business and we ended up going from 12 million to 28 million in a three-year period of time. Service is the largest contributor to that growth. I could talk about how we did that. But ultimately, we had a lot of pain with that growth. We needed software, we needed a system.

We built our own solution from the ground up that was really structured on workflows. As we get into the conversation, I hope we talk more about workflows. But I became so attached to the product that I just had to take it to market, so we did that in 2020. Now, we get to work with contractors again and to help them implement their initiatives. Not all of them want to implement and grow through service, that's okay. But I'm extremely passionate about the ones that do.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. It's such an important, and Will, what great experience on all sides of the roofing industry to be able to do that. Chad, if you could introduce yourself, that would be great and tell us about your company.

Chad Westbrook: Absolutely. My name is Chad Westbrook. I'm the founder of Service Alignment, which really focuses on building high performing service divisions.

Much like Will, I've been in the industry almost 20 years and it's really been the number one thing that I've done. Started on the technology side, had the opportunity I want to say maybe 2012 to step out into a regional service company to help implement technology into the business. It's naturally grown from there. I had the opportunity to be at a national company for about six years, where I led some of the largest preventative maintenance initiatives across the United States. Then my final stop before going on my own was a company that specialized in a very unique part of the business, which is government, schools, hubs, NBEs, all that different stuff.

It really graced me with a lot of experience within the industry. It always focused around the service side. It was always about growing revenue, but they wanted to do it in a sustainable way where they had the opportunity not just to have a one-and-done job, but they can grow the business year over year and have that sustained growth. That's what led me to be able to open up Service Alignment, where we really focus on building those services initiatives and getting to the point to where we can have that foundation or that incubator to be able to get those preventative maintenance. But at the end of the day, grow that private negotiated world that everyone's trying to get.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. Love entrepreneurs, right here. This is awesome. This is so great. Okay, let's start with the big picture. Will, let's start with you. What are you seeing in the rise of service and maintenance programs in roofing?

Will Riley: Yeah. I think that there's an incredible amount of thirst for all things surrounding service. The initial attraction of higher margins or maybe less risk, that's the start to it. But I think bigger picture, contractors are seeing that that really gets them into the private side. Maybe you're not so much at the whim of bidding jobs or being able to submit bids with more of a competitive edge there, but more so doing work on your terms. Your plan, your spec, your start date. I think a lot of that stems from having those service based relationships.

Chad Westbrook: One thing that I have to say on that, Will, is when you talk about the rise of service and maintenance programs. I don't want to tie it into COVID or something around that side, but that's been a really big tipping point where, ultimately most of the re-roofs stopped happening. This is the part inside my career when I was on the government side. Any budget that was created in 2019 or even 2020 was garbage because we all knew 2021, '22, it was a different world. No projects were getting awarded. These companies that were so dependent on all of these big projects, they weren't happening. Everyone started looking elsewhere to be able to say, "Okay, how can we get revenue? How can I keep my guys working?" Service really became that front-and-center way to be able to say, "Well, they're not replacing their roof so what are they doing?" They're repairing it.

The contractors, especially the ones that I'm working with, are understanding that roofs leak 50 to 100 times if not more, depending on what the building's tolerance is, before they even think about replacing the roof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Chad Westbrook: It just makes sense, as you tie in the lifecycle of a roof. You put it on, it's not just wait for the next replacement. There's an entire lifespan that allows you to be able to service that customer, stay close to it and grow it. There's so much that's evolving within our industry and even understanding what our customers want, besides just that next re-roof that they have coming up.

Will Riley: Totally agree. I think you're totally spot on with that too, because COVID, the lockdowns, whatever you want to call it, shined a large light on service. I looked around the room too, and I saw a lot of service departments were the reason that these companies stayed in business, too.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yes.

Will Riley: But if you look at all things that ever need to be repaired will forever need to be repaired, so only really makes sense.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: What you guys are saying is just so good. I hadn't really thought about it in that COVID sense. I can go way back to the Great Recession, and service was the only thing that got a lot of people through that. But you're right, it happened all over again in COVID. Contractors are not stopping that. Now, building owners are used to that, are used to having that kind of service and maintenance, and really that long term plan. It's something that's not going to go away.

Chad Westbrook: Absolutely not.

Will Riley: No question.

Chad Westbrook: I feel like you said, it's shining the light on it. Service has always been a part of the business process that I've always been a part of. But what I was able to do, and this is way pre-COVID, is that service allows you to be able to scale with the customer. Just because you do one re-roof doesn't mean you've got to wait for the next one. They can have 20, 30, 50, 100 other buildings. When you talk about some of the maintenance and service agreements that we've had inside place, it all started with one leak call. One leak call that the customer didn't want to happen so that's where it started getting bigger. Then that private side grows to where I'm the first person that gets the phone call when it's time to replace the roof or I'm the first person that says, "Hey, man, we can't tolerate any more water." Now I'm first in line, not second or third.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: You already covered this a little bit, on why. Or the how. We saw it get started in the early 2000s, where people were doing service and maintenance, but really why it's taken this leap where everybody is getting involved through that COVID. But there's a lot of other reasons why to start a service and maintenance program. Chad, if you can, share a little bit going through those reasons?

Chad Westbrook: Absolutely. The first one and the one that instantly comes to mind is recurring revenue. When I think about recurring revenue, our sales teams do nothing but fight every single day to get an opportunity to get on the roof or to find somebody with a problem or goal that they can solve so they can sell something so they can hit their goals, the company can run, all that fun stuff. But with preventative maintenance agreements, it allows you to be able to get on that roof one, two, four times, whatever it is per year. Not only are you performing a service to help clean out drains, or sealants, or fasteners, or whatever it might be, but it's giving you the opportunity to get back on that roof, see how it's starting to degrade or age, which ultimately is exactly what your salesmen are trying to do.

Recurring revenue is a huge part of that. I always say, January 1st, what do you have sold? Any contractor that has no recurring revenue or maintenance agreements inside place, they're waiting for the first contract to come through. However, the ones that have those maintenance agreements inside place, they can say, "Hey, we already have $500,000 in inspections pre-sold," that they know they're going to do. Then on top of that is the work that comes back from that. Not just cleaning the drains, but as that roof continues to age.

I would say recurring revenue is the first one that comes to mind on why someone would want to start a service and maintenance program.

Will Riley: For sure. I think even future, too. Future, beyond the right here, the right now, it's about retaining those roofs. If you look at it this way, every building you get on, ideally you want to stick a flag in it and say, "This is my roof, I'm the one that takes care of this building and all the occupants within the building." The more roofs you can get on and put flags in, the more future sales will take place.

I always believe in doing the right thing for the customer. It's not like you're out there, trying to sell things that the client doesn't really need. But if you gather data factually and you review it with the client ... When I say gather data factually, I mean all of the facts. Walking the roof, identifying all of what's an emergency type repair work, what's future repair work and what's that cost to replace that asset. Bring that to the client, that good is a result from doing that. I think if you do it over and over and over again, you're retaining the roofs but you're also putting future sales on the board that aren't solidified just yet.

Chad Westbrook: Agreed. Agreed, agreed. Flash that flag in, when you put it in the roof. Just make sure you correctly flash it, extra specced.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it.

Will Riley: Heard.

Chad Westbrook: What you were saying reminded me. This was back 2012, '14, something like that, where you talked about the data side of it. This was in Central US. We had inspected, I forgot what it was, it was the biggest inspection initiative. We inspected, it was like 150 buildings, averaged two sections per building. We inspected 300 sections. The whole reason that we did that was we wanted a very good re-roof or production forecast. We got on top of 300 roofs, we put a projected replacement on 300 roofs. Yes, some of them were 15 years out, but guess what? That's right now.

What we did is we inspected these 300 roofs and now all of a sudden, we had 300 roofs that we knew were going to get replaced. The only question was when. That was one of the coolest things that we put together to be able to see what was the age of the roof? And then also, when were these roofs going to be projected for replacement? Because that just feeds back into, again, how healthy the business is going to be on one, three, five, 10 years. That data is a huge part of it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. When I think about how many roofing contractors every year are having their building owners or negotiator work, asking them to give them budgets, asking them to talk about this certain roof. Whereas with service and maintenance, you may be able to get all of this in place. Will, that seems to me that that is just the best way to really maintain those relationships.

Will Riley: I couldn't agree more. So much of the industry, or maybe what people are just used to doing, is using their expertise, coming up with a quote and then delivering that quote. But if you look a little bit broader in terms of what Chad's talking about, those 150 inspections, that was about collecting and retaining data that helps your clients but also helps you. Creating those win-win-win type scenarios. Instead of just firing off that one quote based on that roofer's experience, which probably and mostly would be the right thing to do, but shining a light on the rest of the facts I think is really the biggest piece that contributes to it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. Working hand-in-hand, and that's what a good service program enables for all of the work that's coming through. Having watched this for many years, I know it's not always easy to bring in new software, to bring in a new culture of service, to even start a service and maintenance program. Will, let's dive into what are the cultural and process changes that need to be made for roofing contractors to be successful with a service and maintenance program?

Will Riley: Good question. Ultimately, that's what I experienced when I joined the roofing company in 2017. We had a couple of service trucks, but really it was to chase warranty work. We did $12 million. What I think most encounter is their organization, especially a re-roof or a bidding-based roofing organization. Their entire structure exists based on making those re-roof sales. Meaning the estimators, the sales reps, their comp plan is based around selling new roofs. What you got to do is open up the reasons why we should even get into service, and then have the team embrace that why. If they don't understand why they should collect all these other repair, and identify all the repairs, and put pricing to all the repairs and life expectancy, and budget for replacement, if they don't understand the why, then they're just not going to do it.

I think it poses a lot of challenges, especially these companies that have been in business for so long, because that's a big culture shock. If you think about it this way, you've got potentially service guys on and off roofs. You got sales reps, estimators, project managers on and off roofs. In a perfect world, they're all contributing to the overarching mission which is that why. I think that's the biggest piece is getting that understanding and having every employee believe in it.

Chad Westbrook: Yeah. There's a mass of parts. You're talking about getting everybody in to understand the why. The first thing that always came to my head is photos. That's what I always run into, technicians. They're like, "I don't understand, I took photos. Why are they not right?" Then you get even further into this. Then on the sales side of, "Why do we want to implement service?" It's because everybody doesn't need a new roof. Just because they call in and they have a roof leak doesn't mean that you have to go out there and quote a new roof, let alone the cost of that roof. It's insane to think that someone would spend a quarter-of-a-million dollars, half, one, whatever the dollar amount is, that's insane, to see that there's a problem big enough that someone's going to spend a quarter-of-a-million to fix it. But it's happening every day.

The integrity part is a huge part of that. Not everybody needs a new roof. What can do with the money they have? A lot of times, not putting that new roof on gets you a longer, more trusting customer, client relationship than you would even replacing that roof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah. I was going to say, I was going to follow up with that. Not only does not everyone need a new roof, but contractors ... I loved what you said earlier, "Put a flag in it." Really owning that roof. Chad, that's really what it's about, right?

Chad Westbrook: It is. It is, it is. What Will said, when he was talking about the why, one thing that I wanted to talk about which was insanely, and still is insanely successful for me, is something called Act As If. I say this to every single employee. When you run into a situation, act as if it was yours. Act As If.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Chad Westbrook: If this was your building, would you get off? If this was your building, would you ignore the fasteners that was missing, the sealant that was failing? It doesn't even have to be yours. If this was your mom's, your grandma's. What would you do if it was yours? When you start thinking with that integrity, that's where service comes from. Service is about doing the right thing when no one's looking. Because most of the time you're up there, maybe you and your second that's there, and the client's expecting you to be able to help get their roof to a leak free condition. Act As If is a huge part that I've implemented into businesses that had just such a great way to be able to answer questions as everyone navigates what is service. Service is Act As If. Act as if this is your building, what would you do? That's how you start really embracing that why.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Will, really to get that culture, it's really about the processes, right?

Will Riley: It is. I think that the processes ultimately need to support the end game. You can tell everybody that you want them to gather more pictures and bring them back to the office, but if they're not following the right processes, it's going to get bottle necked. It'll get clogged. The ball will get dropped. I think that having the processes, and it could be really simple, too. "Hey, every time we're fixing a leak, I want you to also look around. If you see something, this is what you do. You do X, Y and Z, and it goes to the service manager." The service manager, "If it's a house account, you're going to deal with it yourself. If it's not, you're going to pass it to an account manager." Having those processes installed, and then just manage the systems.

I think that helps support to the culture, coupled with what Chad's talking about, Act As If, coupled with understanding the why. That all together, I think, is what's going to help create real success.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, really. Will, one of the things that I've always said is you don't have to really understand technology, but you have to understand what questions to ask. I think that's the hardest part. What are the questions that contractors out there ... Let's just be honest. A number of contractors have gone through a couple of different softwares where they weren't happy. What are the questions that they need to ask? I would love for you to spell that out. The top three questions, around there, of what contractors should be asking a software company?

Will Riley: I think even before they start asking questions, that they look inside of their business and identify what their workflows are. Because that's going to create a good place to even ask questions from, because then you can ask the software provider, "Hey, do you cater to this type of workflow progression? Do you have this level of visibility on work orders I have in backlog?" Or maybe jobs that need to get billed or jobs I need to go back and punch out on.

I think a lot of the time, when I'm sitting down the with the contractor and they haven't thought through their workflows, that we're flushing it out. Or at least, that's what I help them do. Even if they're not ready for software, I still want to help them flush out their workflows because as you're looking at bringing on or implementing new software, it makes owners think about their business. They're like, "Wait a minute, hold on. Let's slow this down a little bit."

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Will Riley: Last thing you want to do is buy a new software and expect it to just magically cure all the issues. It's just not going to do that.

Chad Westbrook: Linked on that, that technology doesn't fix a process problem. When we're going in, and when I go into companies, it's about four things. One is people. Who do you have, where are they sitting on the bus? 101. Then we go into process. In process, I don't allow technology in it. How do the people work together? How do you get it from, "I have a roof leak," all the way over to money in the bank? Because just because it's invoiced doesn't mean it's done. You've got to have cash in the bank.

Then when you bring in technology in at step three, technology makes things better, easier and faster. It's like, "Well, I've got to fill this paper ticket out. Then I've got to give this paper ticket to my technician. He's got a take a picture on his digital camera." Those were the days. But there's so much technology out there that there's so much flashy stuff, that it's really cool to walk through IRE and be like, "Oh man, that's awesome. I need that, I need that, I need that." But then, what I find is that people are buying technology to fix what is truly a process problem. Or sometimes, even as deep as a people problem.

Those are the four things. People, process, technology. Then once you have those three together, then you can start setting goals. But until you have those first three outlined, goals just create confusion more than clarity and confidence.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Chad, I love that. I love that. I'm just sitting here thinking through that, and I just love it because I think it's so true. I've seen it so many times where they think, "Oh, we got this software, everything's going to be fixed." No, because bad data in, bad data out.

Besides the technology, what would you say is the most common challenges that roofing companies face when they're trying to start or even elevate their service division? Chad, what have you seen?

Chad Westbrook: I deal with this every day. It's the work. Service is not easy. Everyone sees it and it might look pretty from in front of the curtain. But when you pull it back, yes, service is very, very profitable. Yes, service will give you more capital projects. But when you think about a production project that last three months, you might have three weeks or a month to be able to load the project. You got 30 minutes. You got literally three minutes, once you get in, before the customer experience automatically starts. The experience that your customer has ... I always say the customer's vision is their reality, what they see is their reality. They don't see the roof.

That's the hardest part is that, we call it the buyer-seller disconnect, is that as a roofer, we're always trying to sell roof repairs. But your client's just looking at a stained ceiling tile, he's just looking at water on the floor. As a roofing company, you have to be able to understand your clients, your prospects' reality of what they see plus what we're doing on the roof.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Chad Westbrook: Almost on that last question, how does technology help? I think technology meshes those two, to be able to say, "Okay, here's the problem. Here's how we fixed it. Here's how it looked in your building."
I think the work is huge.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That has changed a lot. The ability to really show the roof to owners, whether they're two stories down in an office, or whether they're across the country. To be able to say, "This is the problem," and really do that visually or through FaceTime, or whatever, through your project management software. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I think that's a huge point.

Chad Westbrook: You're 100% right. What I say is if the secretary or whoever it is that is at the front desk, if you can't give your supporting documents to them and they clearly know what you did, there's a puncture, there's a hole, you put a patch on top of the hole, it doesn't have to be perfect, but that's how easy your supporting documents can be. Anything more difficult than that more than likely is going to make your customer, who 99% of the time is not a roofing expert, confused. It's got to be simple.

Sometimes that makes it harder for us as contractors. It is harder for us. Yes, we do have to take four specific photos. Yes, they have to be very unique on how we put them. Yes, there's a big difference between a puncture and a slit. There's a massive difference. Yes, there's a massive difference between a puncture in the field and a puncture three-foot away from an HVAC unit. Massive difference.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Oh, yeah.

Chad Westbrook: Those are all things that we deal with in the field that the customer might not understand. But when it comes to what I'll say the top 1% of contractors can come back and say, "Hey, this puncture was caused by your HVAC technician. I know that because of X," or whatever it is.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah.

Chad Westbrook: That's when service really starts becoming the driver of your company.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Will, when you look at that ... I'm going to go back around to what we talked about earlier, because we need to hit this just one more time about common challenges. Let's talk about current culture of a business before they get a service. How challenging is that?

Will Riley: It's extremely challenging, I know it is. Especially for a contractor that does not have a true service division. I'm separating that out from chasing warranty work. If we install roofs, we have to be able to back up our warranties. But from an idea that is an owner's head that says, "I want to bolt on a service division," you can't just copy and paste what you already have. It's a completely different animal. You don't bid the work the same way. It's extremely transactional. It's more slower, it's more methodical. You can't pull a guy off a production crew who’s used to banging out squares and put him in a service truck and expect him to take care of a customer. It's slower, more methodical, customer service oriented. Then the people that manage those crews need to be different than the people managing the production crews.

I think from a culture standpoint, yeah very diverse set of people in order to run, ultimately the whole organization. But it's not a copy paste. All the way down to how you bid a re-roof isn't the same way you bid a repair job. It can be, but if you really want to scale that effort, you really need to adopt unit pricing. You need to be able to onboard more account managers that can identify deficiencies, and pricing quicker, and get approval quicker. That's how you're able to turn the volume up.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: One of the things that I always think about when we're talking about service technicians, because I think your point about you can't just take somebody from one crew to put them in there. But service technicians seem like such a great job for the next generation. When you have young people coming out of vocational schools or coming out of even high school, but definitely community college and college, that is a great job because so much technology's involved, critical thinking. Not that other parts of the company don't have critical thinking, don't take me wrong on that. But it just seems, as I've been watching this, it seems like such a great entry point for young people into the roofing industry.

Will Riley: Absolutely. It's a very attractive industry to be participating in. I love the industry. All the roofers that I've ever met are brilliant. They're experts in their trade. The service technicians, I would actually contribute the majority of what I know now about roofing to the service techs that we had. They were patient with me, they were willing to share. They wanted to tell you what they know. I think that they're proud of it. And they're proud to bring on helpers and teach them everything that they know, and then those helpers become their own service techs. Then they have a whole career ahead of them. It's such a cool thing to see.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Yeah, it is. It is so cool. I love this. Okay, Chad, I always like to end our podcasts with how do roofing companies that want to start their own service and maintenance, where is the best place to get resources? How do they get started?

Chad Westbrook: I'll start with a pen and a piece of paper. I know no one's going to enjoy that, but after all, this company, if you're a leader or a manager, whatever it is, you got to start with the vision, you got to understand where you're going. Otherwise, you're going to constantly break it and have to rebuild it. Or you're going to change course in the middle of it, and at no point do your employees love changing course in the middle of what they thought they were doing.

There's a massive difference. I've had 500 plus preventative maintenance agreements that were executed across the entire US. You guys might say, "Wow, that's awesome." But I can tell, it's not fun getting up to Oregon from Chicago, or getting to Maine, or wherever it is, when you don't have locations out there. You got one truck that's driving across the US, or you have to have a resource network to be able to do it.

I'm explaining all of this stuff to you because it has to be your vision. If you are what I would consider a territory titan within a certain metro, that's awesome. Most of the time, you can build 500 service agreements, there's 500 buildings that I'm sure you guys are on, right in your territory. If that's your vision, it's beautiful.

The other thing I'll say is that you have to understand why, so Will talked a lot about why. This goes to your customer. Why would your customer want a maintenance program? There's so many times where I see contractors thinking that if they tell somebody, "I got a preventative maintenance program," that the client's going to jump all over it. But in reality, your customer's paying you for something and getting nothing because they don't have a leak, they don't have a problem. You're going to go up on the roof, you're going to do an inspection, you're going to clean some drains out. Guess what? They didn't have a problem, which goes right back to their perception is their reality.

The one thing I was going to share, which again this was a little while back, but it was a self-storage company where I had sold about 350 service agreements. I'll spare you all the details to it, but the reason they bought is because they had a manager at the location climb a stepladder to try to clean out gutters, fell off the stepladder, broke her leg. It's a publicly traded company. Sued said publicly traded company, obviously think of what that did. They put a mandate that no one can climb a stepladder over two steps throughout the entire company, which had 300-and-something locations. I tell you guys that because it had nothing to do with roofing. It had to do with a manager. You have to understand the why behind so much. Your customer's not just going to buy a preventative maintenance program because you think it's great. What is it that they're going to get out of it?

I think those are two things. Start with a pen and a piece of paper, find out what your vision is because you got to be able to know where you're going. Then from there, you got to understand why is your customer going to buy it.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: That makes so much sense. That makes so much sense. Will, Centerpoint offers the software, the experience, you guys work with on processes. What is first steps for some of these companies that are like, "Okay, I want to start service and maintenance, I know I need software," or maybe they've already started service and maintenance and now they're ready to take that next step to the software, how do they get started? What is some of your recommendations for how they can bring that kind of software into their business?

Will Riley: Yeah. I think the quest for discovering your why. Participating in industry events and more specifically, gravitate towards the service conversations. There's classes, there's dialogue, there's peer groups. There's a lot of conversation around service. Understand your why.

Once you have your why, then it's about putting the systems in place. Could you run a service division off a spreadsheet? Absolutely. Is it going to suck? Definitely. That's where we try to come in and say let's talk with the contractor and figure out what their need is. We have solutions all the way from entry level, all the way up to very robust and customizable. Part of what we want to do is see what the contractor's initiatives are, and then align to see if we can help them.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. Gentlemen, thank you so much. This is a wealth of knowledge, great podcast. I just loved it. Thank you so much for being here today. I want to have you back another time so we can keep talking about this. Again, thank you so much.

Chad Westbrook: Thank you.

Will Riley: Thanks for having us.

Heidi J. Ellsworth: Love it. Thank you all for listening. This is the kind of information that can grow your business and that's the whole idea. These podcasts are about thought leadership, they're about growing your business, finding out what's happening out there in the roofing industry. Be sure to check out the Centerpoint directory on RoofersCoffeeShop, where you can get all of this information. Also, check out all of the podcasts under our RLW initiative under Roofing Road Trips. Definitely, on your favorite podcast channel, but sure to subscribe and set your notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

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