Coffee Conversations LIVE From FRSA 2024 - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Tammy Hall, Johnny Walker, Randy Fletcher, Donnie Smith and Heather. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Intro: Hello and welcome to Live Coffee Conversations from Roofer's Coffee Shop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and we are on the soundstage of the FRSA Show, sponsored by Beacon. Thank you so much, Beacon. And we're having our Coffee Conversations. You know what this is all about? Thought leadership, what's happening, so we have brought in experts from Florida, contractors, manufacturer, to talk about the trends, the topics, what's happening so you know because you just got to believe it. What happens in Florida heads West. So we all know that. So let's get going and we're going to start with some introductions.

I do want to remind everybody that this is being recorded and it will be available on demand. So please share out with your company, other roofing professionals and everyone out there of course. And if you have any questions, just put them into social media, wherever you're watching on YouTube and some of our folks will get back to you because we want to know what you think. So let's start with some introductions. I am so happy to have all of you here. So Tammy, can you start out?

Tammy Hall: Yes. I'm Tammy Hall. I work with CFS Roofing out of Fort Myers, Sarasota, Naples. We're a full service roofing contractor, commercial and residential.

Heidi Ellsworth: And I just have to say, Tammy is also chair of the government affairs for NRCA. So we'll get some of that side too here. Johnny?

Johnny Walker: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. Can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your company.

Johnny Walker: Yeah. So I'm Johnny Walker, National Technical Manager for Roofing and Waterproofing with ICP, so Innovative Chemical Products. And as you can see, APOC is one of the lines. So that's our primary roofing line and happy to be here today.

Heidi Ellsworth: And I want to say thank you to APOC for being a sponsor of Coatings Coffee Shop.

Johnny Walker: Oh yes. Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: Coatings Coffee Shop, check it out. Randy.

Randy Fletcher: Yes ma'am. Randy Fletcher, senior VP with Southern Roofing and Renovations. We recently partnered with Janney Roofing, which is very popular in the Florida area under the umbrella of Legacy Restorations. So myself and my partner here, Donnie Smith, are running the entire state of Florida.

Heidi Ellsworth: Awesome. Donnie.

Donnie Smith: Donnie Smith, senior VP for Southern Roofing and Renovations, as Mr. Randy said here, that we run all the territories here in Florida. We're actually both original members from the flagship. We started the company back in Memphis Tennessee in 2017.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow. Excellent. Heather.

Heather: Hey, my name's Heather. I am the roofing division manager from E2 Roofing out of Jacksonville, Florida and we're a full service residential roofer.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. And our club members, love you guys. Thank you so much for being here today. This is so cool. So let's kind of start with where we're at, right? We're at the FRSA Show, 102 year, which is amazing. Tell me what you think of the show so far. I'll start with you, Tammy.

Tammy Hall: It's incredible. I mean, it's been great to see everybody. I love the opportunity to network. My God, the exhibitors have gone all out this year. You have everything from A to Z literally and a little bit in between. You've got great deals on the floor; people are ready to sell and I think the people here are ready to buy. It's been a great year in Florida so I'm excited to be here.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. I feel that same buzz walking out there. Johnny, what are you seeing with your booth?

Johnny Walker: Yeah. So as an exhibitor here, I mean, this is my I think 16th year in a row.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Johnny Walker: And here 16 years with APOC and ICP. So we're having a great show. The amount of traffic through the show has been fantastic. The response is really good. We're going to talk about lots of other things, but the vibe, the energy that you're having on the floor in there is exceptionally good. So everybody's feeling good about work right now and the prospects. So it's been very good.

Heidi Ellsworth: We're roofing out there. We're roofing. So Randy, tell us, what do you think about the show floor?

Randy Fletcher: Well unfortunately I've only been here for three years and even in the short time I've seen it grow-

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: Immensely. So I'm very impressed and super excited to see what's going to happen next year.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Always. It's always so huge. Donnie.

Donnie Smith: Usually, I'm up to date whenever it comes to the show calendar, but with the integration with Janney and Legacy, of course us of Southern kind of had our heads down focusing on that.

Heidi Ellsworth: I bet.

Donnie Smith: So, I'm going to check it out as soon as we get wrapped up with this.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I love it. And Heather, what do you think?

Heather: I thought it was really awesome. Like Tammy said, there's a lot of really cool stuff in there. Just some of how the booths are set up I think are really cool design and it really brings people in. So I've had some conversations with some people that I may not have necessarily had conversations with.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: I think it's just really interesting. There's a lot of new stuff out there to solve some old problems and I just think it's really cool to see some change coming through and change that really makes sense, something that I feel like we can really implement.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. What's some of your favorite things you've seen so far?

Heather: I really like the moldable flashings around the boots and to be able to use those on solar panels and boots, we've had some complicated roofs recently where something like that would've just made it a little bit easier to make sure it was watertight.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: So, I'm really interested in that.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's so cool. I love it. Okay. Let's get down to looking at some of the things, to that point, that we're seeing trending in Florida and where we're going. So you know what, Heather, I'm going to start with you.

Heather: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: What are some of the trends that you're seeing this year and even comparing them into last year?

Heather: Yeah. I'd say over the year, maybe two, a lot of recycled materials. I'm seeing a lot more people reach out, but also here today on the floor with recycled materials that maybe look like shingle or look like metal, but have a lot longer of an ability to keep them on the roof. With Florida, I'm sure everybody knows, the insurance here dictates a lot of the lifespan of shingles.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: And so, there's a lot of people looking to, "How can we get around that 15-year mark?" And I think that sustainable shingles is really a cool idea.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That-

Heather: Yeah. I think in the next year or two that's going to be where a lot of people are looking that way.

Heidi Ellsworth: Our products are changing.

Heather: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: I mean the demands of the environment, the demands of the market. It is interesting. Automation, technology is starting to change how we're looking at those products and this is a great place to-

Heather: Oh, yeah. To kind of see it all together and to have people ready to talk about it and explain it and show me how it works and the conventions are perfect for that type of stuff.

Heidi Ellsworth: It is. Wow. So one of the biggest trends we've had, '23 and '24, are mergers and acquisitions.

Heather: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: And so, we are seeing a lot of M&A. So Donnie, along with what you're seeing trending in the market and with your customers and stuff, also can you talk a little bit just about what you're seeing with the M&A and your experience with mergers merging with Janney?

Donnie Smith: It's been excellent. We got three of the best under one umbrella now.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donnie Smith: We're getting together because there's things that some do great, some they work on and getting together with the melding of the minds to find out the best business practices, it's been a challenge, but it's been exciting every step of the way. We're pulling the best from each and putting it together to create a real powerhouse. It's been great. But as far as the things that I see trending, I was blessed with the opportunity to be responsible for scaling one of our newest markets down in Fort Myers. And as you know, that's big tile market, concrete tile. We know the wait times that we have right now. We suffer from allocations since COVID. And with all the development we're doing in the state as well, they're just not picking up. It's just not happening.

So I'm seeing a lot of people gearing towards the stone-coated steel, and I do, I believe because of the resources they have or that they don't have whenever it comes to concrete tile. I mean the wait times keep getting pushed back, stone-coated steel is readily available and it's a comparable whenever it comes to the pricing, but it's a lot better product. So I really do see that market growing in our system, especially in our tile markets.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That's great because we were going to talk a little bit about material shortage and I think a lot of people think that it is done, that we aren't having, but I'm looking right here, material shortage is still allocations and it's hitting a lot. So okay. Concrete and tile, and you're nodding, Heather. What are you seeing too?

Heather: I think just supplier by supplier, it's very, some people can get it and then some people, like for us, I've run into circumstances where I'm really looking for something specific and that's kind of allocated to people that are using it on a daily basis. And so it's harder to make those relationships where it's like, "I want to start using something or I have a homeowner asking for something specific, now I need to source it," and I have a lot of people are like, "Oh man. We can't really get that," or, "We'll have to call it in," and I'm like, "Okay. We could work with that." So I would say that that's the biggest thing is just making sure that everybody kind of has a little bit of everything.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That's really interesting. Randy, what are you seeing?

Randy Fletcher: Oh, I've got a shout-out to Suncoast Roofing Supply. Ever since Ian, they've jumped through hoops to try to get us as much material as possible.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: But yes. We are blessed being in Florida because with Owens Corning having a plant in Jacksonville and then JAF's is what, in Tampa? Tampa. So we haven't had much supply issues as long as we stick to certain colors.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: That's right. That's right.

Heidi Ellsworth: You can have everything you want as long as it's black.

Heather: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Johnny, what are you seeing trending?

Johnny Walker: Yeah. So I mean obviously my perspective is a little different, although we have the adhesive, the tile isn't ready so we do see that still affecting our business. Even though we don't have the issue, you still have that happening. Definitely seeing the stone coated metal as being an alternative and looking for other alternatives with lots of different systems.

Heidi Ellsworth: Lot of innovation.

Johnny Walker: I think some people just don't realize how much of an ecosystem roofing material can be. The tiniest little defect can just have a domino effect. For example, that barge in China that did the canal, we couldn't get metals or anything. We couldn't get framework for windows, we couldn't get any because everything just shut down. All because of one little barge.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Right.

Johnny Walker: On the other side of the world.

Randy Fletcher: Yeah. And that's a key point.

Heidi Ellsworth: A lot of containers.

Randy Fletcher: When we had the problems, you could get the single ply, but you couldn't get the ISO or you could get the ISO, you couldn't get the single ply.

Heather: ISO was a huge setback for a while.

Randy Fletcher: You couldn't get the plates and screws, but you could get everything else. It all does come together like I say, although us as a manufacturer, we're good and ready to roll. Other industries that aren't quite caught up yet can affect our sales as well.
Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. It's so true. What are you seeing?

Tammy Hall: Well ISO shortage drove us into lightweight concrete. So because we had a background in it, we decided to create a company that would assist us. And so we ended up purchasing an existing company that we were working with, subcontracting with, we end up buying them. And so now we, for the last year and a half, almost two years, we've had lightweight concrete. So that kind of eliminated that challenge for us to some degree. But what we're seeing a huge trend, especially in Southwest, Florida, is metal.

Heidi Ellsworth: Metal. Yeah.

Tammy Hall: People are just, the insurance, just to kind of segue into your insurance, insurance is really driving that lifespan. And when they're asking their insurance agent or they're asking like, "Well what type of roof would you that?" They're pushing metal.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: And it's an issue for, like someone like FRSA and other people who support the industry as a whole, they don't like to take sides.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Tammy Hall: And if you remember not too long ago, Monroe County was on a bandwagon to say, "We're only going to allow metal roofs to be put on roofs in Monroe County," and we were successful in pushing that back and saying, "You can't do that. People need to have the right to choose the roof they want," but we are seeing that trend. Of course the tile shortage has driven some of that, but even on our commercial roofs where we have slope, they're all going to metal. The mansard's that were used to be tile metal, they're asking us to replace it or the tile with the metal. So we're seeing a huge trend in metal right now.

Heidi Ellsworth: I tell you, when you walk out on that show floor-

Tammy Hall: Lot of metal.

Heidi Ellsworth: There is so much metal. Yeah.

Tammy Hall: Ton of it.

Heidi Ellsworth: And are you hearing that from the consumers too?

Tammy Hall: Yep.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That they're-

Tammy Hall: Everyone.

Heidi Ellsworth: Requesting it.

Heather: I would say we're having more people take insurance claims that, in the shingled world, would've been a full replacement of the shingled roof and saying, "Yeah, cool, fine. I want to get a metaled roof. What's my out-of-pocket?" And two, three years ago, I had almost nobody wanted to do that. They were like, "I'll take the free one."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: And now I'm having many more homeowners saying, "Wait, wait, wait. I don't want the shingled though."

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Heather: "I want to upgrade."

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and don't you think, homeowners are becoming research, education, all of those things that are happening, they're seeing that, "I don't want to have," and I know this is not always good for everybody, but, "I don't want to have to be roof after every storm. I want to have something that's going to last and I don't have to fight with insurance companies."

Heather: And shingles had a mindset in people of 30 years, it's going to last 30 years and I think that's been really hard for people to let go of as well. And so they want to wait for their roof to last 30 years and really tile or metal is the only way to go anymore in Florida.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That is so interesting. So okay, let's talk a little bit about insurance. We kind of took this in here. If you're outside the state, I feel like we get a lot of information. I mean we get great articles from Trent Cotney and we hear a lot that's going on with insurance, but we don't really understand how it is living day-to-day, right, with what's happening with insurance companies. How is that, I mean, we hear these rumors about a whole insurance companies pulling out of the state and now it's going to be state funded. Let's start with you Tammy.

Tammy Hall: Well, I want to give kadoos to Lisa Pate at FRSA and Chris Dawson our lobbyist in allowing us to create FRSA a roofing day in Tallahassee. That's been huge. And you're right. Insurance companies pulled out. The state legislature came together and Governor DeSantis came together, they came up with a plan where citizen gobbled up all these people who couldn't get insurance and now they're slowly getting them out of the state system and encouraging and incentivizing insurance companies to come back to the state of Florida and that is working. It's taken a while. There's always this lag time, but patience is a virtue as they like to say in politics and it's paying off. So I think Florida over the next five years has a much better outlook for insurance if we don't have another major Ian, Michael, the list goes on over the last five years what we've had.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: Big if [inaudible 00:14:49].

Heidi Ellsworth: Big if. Yeah.

Tammy Hall: Almost non-existent. But the other thing the legislature's doing to help offset some of that is really changing the consumer protections as well. So part of the challenge is, "Okay, we're going to shore up insurance here, but now we have to do what can consumers expect and how can we work better with consumers? How are we going to let outside sources come in and communicate with consumers then to go to the bottom line?" And so that's changing as well. First time we've ever had cancellation clauses in the state of emergency on our contracts. All of these things, and we were very, Chris Dawson, very involved with working with us on trying to make sure that the language, we could still do our jobs.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: Because there's nothing worse than a crisis and saying, you got a ten-day cancellation, "I can't get to you for 10 days unless you sign off." So we really worked the language to allow us to deal with emergencies, but also-

Heather: Be protected.

Tammy Hall: Reach the goal of consumer protection as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. Right. And how that goes. Johnny, what are you seeing about insurance?

Johnny Walker: So, it's kind of a take the good with the bad scenario for us. We make residential roofing products and commercial roofing products and restoration products. So we're seeing that when a roof has to be re-roofed, well then we could benefit from that. But on the opposite side, we're seeing where a restoration might've been able to restore an existing commercial roof and they're saying, "Absolutely not. We have to tear it off and re-roof it," when there's no leak, the roof is in good condition, now you're going to be filling a landfill. So that's not environmentally friendly where a restoration could prolong the life of that for another 15 or 20 years.

So we are fighting that better. We're having some wins and losses in that, right? So as different insurance companies come in and they look at it differently, and so we are having some wins and losses, but it's been tough. I mean I have personal friends that have had roofs that I've gone and walked for them and were in excellent condition and they were forced to tear it off or they were going to lose their insurance. So my family, exactly the same issue.

Heidi Ellsworth: And that's a huge expense when you don't have to go that direction, but you want to make sure that they're also people are being taken care of.

Johnny Walker: And one of the things that really concerns me in the state of Florida with it, especially with your homeowners, commercial is one thing, but when you think of the large percentage of fixed income folks that we have here in the state of Florida, and if they've got a roof that could technically maybe has a manufacturer warranty that's showing another five or 10 years out and they're being forced to tear it off at this point and that doesn't seem prudent for that individual.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. You know what you really tweak in my mind too is this balance between financial environment and the insurance company's trying to figure out how to, but it seems to come back to just put some really good roofs on and metal and Randy.

Randy Fletcher: With that being said, going back to the metal roofing of I'm from Tennessee, I was shocked to know how many people along the coast don't have roofing insurance. They have exclusions to the roof because they just plan on replacing the roof every five years. So now with the stone-coated metal and products like that coming out, it gives them more options to protect them for a good 50, 60, 70 years instead of every five.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. I know and I think that's it. Are you seeing the same thing Donnie?

Donnie Smith: Yeah, absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donnie Smith: Down there in Fort Myers, it got hit pretty bad with [inaudible 00:18:24] whatnot. We're dealing with a lot of adversities when it comes to insurance just like everybody else has. And we just pride ourselves on preparing our guys for that, having them vet as well as we can when it comes to insurance to be able to navigate that and I went to an attorney where PA is kind of a launch resort. Luckily we had a little bit better successes, a little bit smoother when it came to insurance and the markets that we came for in the Mid-South, the Tennessee area and whatnot. Just a lot more document presentation and a few more hoops to jump through.

Heidi Ellsworth: I was going to say because you're predominantly residential.

Donnie Smith: Yes ma'am.

Heidi Ellsworth: And so that I think is also, I know there's been a lot that's gone on in the state about really that consumer protection of being licensed, doing it the right ways and that takes a lot of work to make sure that you are presenting in-

Donnie Smith: Absolutely.

Heidi Ellsworth: Especially with growth.

Donnie Smith: It's so important because there's a negative connotation whenever it comes to a roofing contractor because of certain individuals and it's an adversity we face, but also whenever we do it the right way or stand up, it just makes us shine that much more. Obstacles are opportunities.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Being here at FRSA, at the show. Heather, you're nodding. You're like, "All the way around."

Heather: We're in a position at E2 where we do a lot of insurance work as a preferred vendor. So we work directly with the insurance carriers after the decision has been made to have a claim paid out. So I would say maybe about 70% of our work comes directly from the carrier and then the other 30% is organic retail type of work. So I kind of see both sides of that. And so there's the side of, I come across some roofs that homeowners have filed a claim or are attempting to get a claim approved and I'm like, "There is some homeowner requirements that general upkeep and you can't have a barbecue on your flat roof and think that it's going to be wind damaged." I'm like, "There's certain things that don't qualify as a claim." And so I think that plays into the insurance company's unwillingness to pay out.
But then there's the other side of that and there are some carriers that are really good and they pay quickly and they are on the same page as far as we do need certain materials and a certain quality of material. We don't need a hand washing station and a porta potty for a week at the job site. We don't need to include those things, but there is a middle ground. And so I think with insurance it can be really tough.

If the insurance companies don't understand that the relationship with the roofer is really important to be local to the homeowner, to be in your territory, I'd say storm chasing is probably the biggest obstacle that the insurance world in Florida is facing is there's so many people traveling to storms and doing quick work that's not as carefully watched as it could be because it's a cat situation and then they're back to wherever it is that they normally work out of and now we have no warranties able to be withheld and so that creates problems for roofers like us that this is our home and we're working for our community in our community and we're trying to combat with the people that are coming in so much lower, but that's because they don't plan on ever answering a phone call, they don't have an office, they don't have a labor warranty and so that's a huge thing that we're facing right now in the insurance world.

Randy Fletcher: Yeah. I warn my clients all the time, same thing she's saying, of the three-year plan contractor. They swoop in, they do as many roofs as possible for three years and then they're out of here.

Heather: They're out. Changed their name.

Randy Fletcher: Right. You can't get them on the phone. Any problem. I can't tell you how many roofs I've been on I'm like, "This roof is only three years old?"

Heather: I agree. Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: It's crazy you were going to say.

Tammy Hall: No, no. [inaudible 00:22:17] I agree. It's tough and I think that, again Florida, because we've gone through these storms, I think consumers are getting smarter. I love the signage up here that they have out. Be sure you're hiring a Florida licensed contractor.

Heather: That's right.

Tammy Hall: And I think that all of us in our own businesses, on our websites and our own communication in the groups that we talk to, Chambers of Commerce, things like that, we're expressing, "We are the good vendors. So please don't put us in the same ballot because of the other folks. We're going to tell you, we're going to be honest. We live here. This is our home. And so if you have a question, I'd rather you call me, even if I don't get the job, but call me. Just don't be blind so you just take any bid," and make sure you're comparing apples to apples. So many people will come in and say, "Oh, why are you $5,000 more?" Well they lift off your drip edge. They left off a list of things that they're going to come back and give you a change order for or you're not going to have them, then you're not going to pass inspection and you're going to have to have that.

Heather: Yeah. Or the Frankenstein roof with all different materials and you're just like, "Oh my God."

Heidi Ellsworth: Frankenstein roof. I like that.

Tammy Hall: I had not heard of that before.

Heather: Yeah. That's good.

Tammy Hall: I'm going to use that. I'm going to use that.

Heather: Warranty issues and I'm just like, "This is the leftovers from the shelf that you have? This is not a complete roof."

Randy Fletcher: I try to warn my clients all the time because they do tend to prey on the elderly, but this is the first time I've seen where a roofer will tear off about a foot of the perimeter of the roof and then leave the rest of the roof on there and put a new roof on top of it and they thought they got a new roof. It looks like it's only one layer until I go to tear it off, I'm like, "Here's your problem. That's why this roof is only eight years old. It's two roofs."

Heidi Ellsworth: That's terrible.

Randy Fletcher: Terrible. Terrible.

Tammy Hall: That's terrible.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh my gosh.

Randy Fletcher: I've seen it three times since I've been here and it's always been the elderly and I'm like, "That's criminal."

Heidi Ellsworth: That's criminal.

Tammy Hall: That's right.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's criminal. And when you're in the middle of a hurricane or right after a hurricane, of course everybody's desperate to get roofs and get everything and so it puts so much pressure on the industry right then and it makes that room unfortunately for some of the scam to come in and-

Heather: I agree.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. So I want to kind of shift gears and talk a little bit about labor and the labor shortage. It's really interesting because there's been a lot coming through on immigration regulations. I mean, we even had a New York Times article on child labor and they called out roofing. Yeah. And so, I'm just curious how you're all dealing with the labor shortage, if you're seeing it and kind of what you're doing. Tammy, let's start with you.

Tammy Hall: We right now are good, but it comes in waves and we're very fortunate. People like working for CFS. So we get crews that will come in and want to work and so we're in good shape right now. But honestly, Senate bill 1718 that DeSantis has sign for us really put a scare on our Latino market. We lost probably about four or five crews from that. We had to hold special classes. I had FRSA lobbyist Chris Dawson come down and speak to Southwest Florida so you could really understand what that meant. If you're doing government work, how you have to verify. And that was a challenge and I think that there's still, well we're not experiencing it ourselves personally, I'm talking to other roofers who are really challenged right now and they're very concerned about the I-9 verification and how that's going to roll up and what that means.

A lot of people are going to subcontractors, but subcontractor areas getting pushed versus W2s. We're a W2 contractor and we've been able to I-9 and verify, but that is a challenge for us. When someone comes into the system, you got to bump them out. So we're fortunate, but it is going to continue to be a challenge as the state of Florida looks at immigration and how they're going to deal with that.

Heidi Ellsworth: And get everything done-

Tammy Hall: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: That needs to get done.

Tammy Hall: Yeah, well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That's the thing and it's not just contracting, it's not just out in the field, it's manufacturing too and you have a large manufacturing plant here.

Johnny Walker: Yeah. So we've got a huge footprint all across the United States and even overseas. So it varies from state to state, country to country with us, but here in Florida we're fortunate that, very much like you said, we're all the company and we're kind of sought after. We treat our employees right so we tend to keep them long-term. Not that we haven't had shortages. We've had some issues at some of other plants, like in one of our Louisville plants in Alabama. Just finding good quality people that can come and work. But just like you, it's, although we're not really experiencing it, we have contact with all of our contractors in the field and they're all experiencing it to some varying degree.
And it's been tough. I think it's partly generational that-

Heidi Ellsworth: Same.

Johnny Walker: Laugh, right? You know just what I'm talking about.

Heather: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: There's a lot to that.

Johnny Walker: There's a lot to that. There's a lot to that. I think we have a generation that they want something for nothing and reward requires a little bit of time and sweat and work and I can speak, I've got three children and three boys that have said, "You can go into roofing and make really, really good money," and they're like, "I don't want to be on a roof. I don't want to be hot. I don't want to do that."

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and I think that's why automation and technology is going to play such a role, especially with manufacturing, but out on the roof too, I mean we just saw a machine, a robot, that can do shingle roofs.

Johnny Walker: I saw that. The AI robot putting on shingles.

Heidi Ellsworth: The AI. Yeah.

Johnny Walker: I'm like, "Oh my God.

Heidi Ellsworth: Some of these build-

Heather: I'll have to check that out.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. It's really cool. Go ahead.

Randy Fletcher: Like what Johnny said, you got to take care of your employees and we do the same thing. We go through a lot of scrutiny to make sure that all of our labor is legitimate, legal and competent. So once we find those periods that are just A plus crews, we're not going to let them go anywhere. If your kids want a job just come.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. Donnie.

Donnie Smith: Yeah. We're pretty good whenever it comes to labor and everything like that, but whenever it comes to the workforce and the generation, we're seeing a lot of that when we're bringing in internal staff and whatnot, but we have a great recruiting department that kind of weeds that out to a certain extent. Then whenever we vet them and bring them on, we really do for ourselves into that. We give them the tools to success. I can provide all of that. All I need is a little work ethic.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donnie Smith: Go from there.

Heidi Ellsworth: Go through it. That's so true. That's so true. What are you seeing [inaudible 00:29:09]

Heather: Pretty much the same thing as everybody else. We're in a good spot currently. I think when the changes first got made, it definitely scared some people and so we're kind of seeing some people come back and say, "Oh wait a second. It's safe now." But kind of the same thing, once you find a good crew, you just really have to keep them. Where it's affecting us the most I would say is in workers' comp prices. It costs so much money in-house to insure the employees and that's not a cost that I can give to my homeowner that needs a new roof. That those two costs don't really correlate.

And so it's hard to pass on those. So we're absorbing more and more insurance costs to hire people on and then to have them not work out or like you said, I think COVID played a little part in giving quick money to some people and so they're like, "Wait a second. I have to do what before I get paid? It's not as easy. It's just showing up and leaving every day," and I'm like, "No, no. There's some physical work here."

Heidi Ellsworth: There's a lot.

Heather: Yeah. So I'd say those two things, finding the labor and then the cost to keep and train them and making sure that that pays off before they go to an opportunity where there's another company saying, "Hey, we'll pay you five more a square. We'll pay you six more a square." And so I feel like we're losing people over quick, fast money that probably isn't long-term.

Heidi Ellsworth: But the company culture and what you offer in benefits, those are the things that make for a career.

Heather: For sure.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: Yeah. So it's making sure that we offer more than just that quick, like he was saying, we got to train our people and we have to pour our heart and soul into them and it's more than just getting this roof done. It has to be a long-term plan to be successful. Allow them upward mobility into a company or else you're just not going to keep them.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And continuing education, training, all of that is so important and I think that's one of the things we're seeing as we're talking about this next generation. Part of the problem has been that the roofing industry didn't get into the schools, they didn't get into the vocational schools or into the construction management and that is changing and I think that people are seeing what a great career it is, what a great community, great culture as they're going through. And I'm going to actually start over here one more time because I know, I usually try to go back and forth, but I know you've been working on this, Tammy, but what are you seeing in the vocational schools, the universities in Florida, around the incorporation of roofing and getting our brand out there, getting our industry in front of young people?

Tammy Hall: Well six years ago, Florida Gulf Coast University, which is the 10th university in the state of Florida, created a construction management. And president Mike Martin reached out to me and said, "Hey Tammy, I'm getting this program started. I want you to serve on my committee."

Heidi Ellsworth: Cool.

Tammy Hall: We pulled together business people to always partake in this because there's a process in order to get a bachelor’s degree and all the things. So a lot of general contractors, but they did grab some subcontractors and I want to give kadoos to the partners in the sub industry. They hung in with this program. It is such a successful program. We made all of the qualifications. When we started out, we were hoping for 40 students. We ended up with 240 students.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Tammy Hall: There's a waiting list now for construction management, but the fact that we were always invited to come into the class and be a professor for a day and talk to them about estimating and what it means to be a roofer. I sat on the executive committee and constantly was talking about the career that roofing offers. You don't have to go to a general contractor, you can come into a subcontracting role. And lo and behold, this year, 2025, there is going to be six credits offered for roofing. So it's going to be an elective, but it's a start. So you can have an elective in roofing at Florida Gulf Coast University. NRCA did a great job with Clemson University.

Heather: That's awesome.

Tammy Hall: An online program where you can actually go through, there's two, it's part one and part two, not that expensive, about $800 and you can get your certification in roofing through Clemson University.

Heather: Wow.

Tammy Hall: So, I'm seeing more and more of that and I'm seeing the education system truly open itself up to vocational. I'm seeing at the high school level, especially in the Southwest Florida area, really recognizing not everyone is cut out to be a bachelor degree or a master's degree. That doesn't mean that they don't have the brain power for it. It just means that's not their cup of tea.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Tammy Hall: So, they're really driving folks into and incentivizing these high school students to go the vo-tech route.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: And then again with a SkillsUSA.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Tammy Hall: What a fantastic program. Florida was not involved with that. We're now involved with that. I'm going to give another call out to FRSA because Lisa really jumped on that, working with NRCA so that roofing could have its own segment in SkillsUSA. And I think that, again, exposes these students who we want them to start young and come through the process and say, "Wow. I can be an estimator." It's not just about putting a nail on the roof, but if you start out there at CFS, if you have the willpower and like you said, I've got a good work ethic, then we're going to grab you eventually and say, "Hey, you're going to be a superintendent. You're going to be a foreman. Now you're going to be a project manager. If you want estimating, if math is your thing," or whatever it is you want to do. Maybe you want to go to the service side of things. So there is a wonderful career opportunity for men and women.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Oh, and women.

Tammy Hall: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: We know. National Women in Roofing. Yes.

Tammy Hall: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. SkillsUSA, we're going to be there and we're going to-

Tammy Hall: Oh fantastic.

Heidi Ellsworth: And so, I'm excited. We have a competitor from Florida who's going to be there.

Tammy Hall: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Okay. We'll be watching those states. What are you, and Johnny, you guys have such a culture of training and education.

Johnny Walker: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: What are you seeing?

Johnny Walker: So, I mean obviously made some great points here that having people with work ethic, and I was going to talk about that too and finding those young folks, educating them that, "Hey, this isn't ... I think young folks look at roofing and go, "Oh my god, it's just such a hard job. I don't want to do that."

Heidi Ellsworth: And it is.

Johnny Walker: Understanding that, "Hey, it is. It is hot, it's sweaty and you're on a roof, you're in heights and all these things," but understanding that these are not just, it's not flipping burgers at McDonald's.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Johnny Walker: These are careers. Being in roofing, and we laugh about it all the time and I know if I'm say it everybody's going to know, once you get in roofing, what happens?

Heidi Ellsworth: You never leave.

Johnny Walker: You never leave roofing, right. So-

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it.

Johnny Walker: Why? Why?

Heidi Ellsworth: That's true.

Johnny Walker: That's the real question.

Heidi Ellsworth: I know, right. Exactly.

Johnny Walker: You could say, "Well hey, we all make very good money. We make good money for what we do. We enjoy the industry. We work with really good quality people throughout the industry." And educating these young folks that, "Hey, it's just not banging dance. It's not slopping a mop on a roof. It's a career."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Johnny Walker: And to your point, you don't have to be that person that's doing that because you can start there. Then you can go up to estimating. You can be a foreman on the job and all these different types of things. You can become a vice president. I mean you guys, I'm sure you didn't start out as VPs, right?

Randy Fletcher: No. No.

Johnny Walker: Right.

Randy Fletcher: We're sales guys.

Johnny Walker: So, you start at the bottom and you work your way up and educating everybody on that. And with our company, ICP, we take pride in education. We've got three training centers throughout the United States, one in Phoenix, Tampa and Andover, Mass. And of course we're focusing not so much on the young folks, but on our current roofing customers and bringing them in and educating, but we also work with all the different divisions in our company and we bring in training. We offer some online training courses as well and we've worked with other roofers and we've brought them in and worked with them in our facility to help them conduct training, whether it be safety training because we have steep slope and low slope roof decks and that type of thing in there. So you conduct some of the [inaudible 00:37:04] safely.

So as a partner in the industry, we like to work with our customers and go, "Hey, we have this resource available for you so that you can utilize and bring your teams in a nice space of, as I say, 8,000 square feet of well-lit air-conditioned space."

Heather: That's nice.

Tammy Hall: Nice.

Johnny Walker: You don't often get that in roofing.

Heidi Ellsworth: It is it air-conditioned. I've been there. It's really nice. Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: I wish we had, I went to a tech school back in high school and I wish we had something with roofing and stuff. I was actually roofing in high school. Except in Tennessee, we're a little messier. They just slide all the shingles off and it hits the ground. And a guy like me is running around with a wheelbarrow and scoops them all up, runs up a homemade ramp, dumps it in. And I never really got to learn the technical side of it. I was the grunt, but it did make me a great offensive lineman running that barrel up that ramp and summer came-

Tammy Hall: And here you are today.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it.

Randy Fletcher: I was rocking it, but I wish we had a roofing program. That would've been awesome.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. In your school, in your vo-tech. It's such a great career and we haven't had it, but as we now see this with the NRCA, they are giving the track training to these vocational schools or community colleges or construction management. It doesn't matter. Anybody who's educating. And I think it is really important. What are you all seeing in your training program and I think we were talking about this earlier, mostly crews or what are you seeing when it comes around safety and training and all of that?

Johnny Walker: A little of both. With our sales staff, we take it personally because when we started there wasn't much training. We've pretty much created a training program and now that we've merged and stuff, everybody's bringing in all the resources. It is really great. Our new staff goes through rigorous training that I'm just sitting there thinking, I walked uphill in three feet of snow both ways to school. Y'all get this. And then even with our crews, we bring in our suppliers like Tilcor, DECRA and them would come in and help show them the proper way to do this and that. So everybody says they can do it and I need you to prove to me that you can do it, but I'd rather just train you instead of test marketing.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. And putting that together. I think that's so true and I think that's also so important for retention because people want to stay. Donnie.

Donnie Smith: Yeah. You know, we're blessed. You touched on the culture of the roofing industry. We really all are here for each other. And that's one thing I got to give a hat's off for our manufacturers, whether it's product knowledge for our sales team or install whenever it comes to our crews, they're always open to host these workshops and things of that nature. So it would be good to see, me coming from an electrical background, I went through an apprenticeship, I went to a tech school, and I'm waiting for the day that that's an open resource for this industry as well. It'll be great. I'll definitely be sourcing those for employment.

Heidi Ellsworth: Exactly. With all of them. What are you seeing around in your area?

Tammy Hall: Kind of the same things. We're pretty much all having the same type of problems and just having to really train people and focus really heavily on how do we retain them more than just, "I have a job opportunity." That's not enough for a lot of people anymore just to have, "Hey, I can employ you full-time and your paycheck will always clear."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: To me when I started, I was like, "Yes. Those are great terms."

Johnny Walker: Pretty much the most important thing.

Heather: Love that. Yeah. Everything else I can figure out. And so as I'm bringing in people, I'm like, "Guys, we've got the best thing," and they're like, "Yeah, but. Yeah, but." And I'm like, "Okay. Okay."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. It's a different world.

Heather: I happened to get really creative and being picky, but then when you find the people that really are the good fit and not even skilled, teachability. Are you teachable or is your cup already full? If your cup's already full, we probably can't fit you in here. But if we can all work together and learn together, then that's really, it's changed the way that we've had to hire completely.

Heidi Ellsworth: And especially when you're thinking about safety. I mean, that's just not an option.

Heather: No.

Heidi Ellsworth: And people want to make it an option then it's just not. I know.

Randy Fletcher: We've all had employees leave for whatever reason and have other opportunities, but I had one of my guys leave because he wanted to become an Instagram YouTube star.

Heather: Yes.

Randy Fletcher: And that's the face I made. I was like, "I don't know how to respond to that."

Heidi Ellsworth: I know.

Randy Fletcher: Good luck.

Heather: That's so true though.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. There we go.

Heather: That's a lot of it is-

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Let me tell you, even when you have a whole crew working on that, that's not an easy thing.

Heather: No.

Heidi Ellsworth: No.

Randy Fletcher: No, it's not.

Heather: That's what kills me. Yeah, I agree. The next coming out generation is like, "Oh, but I can go on YouTube and make 20 million a year," and I'm like-

Randy Fletcher: Playing video games.

Tammy Hall: Good luck.

Heidi Ellsworth: That'd be great. Sign me up, man.

Heather: Right. But I think social media plays a huge impact on it because it creates where people think there really are these jobs that are within reach and I'm going to go and be on YouTube. All I got to do is create an account. And so it does create some hesitation I think before they go into the workforce for real.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Before they figure out and see, "Okay. These are really good careers."

Heather: Right. Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, let's go, I want to touch on the economy because we're in an election year and that always tries to play with everybody and I know we're all like. And we have the interest rates which have stayed stable, but I'm just curious and we'll start with you Heather, on what you're seeing around inflation. I mean, you're saying work is good, people are busy. Is it affecting the roofing industry?

Heather: I think so. Yeah. I think inflation is here. Prices haven't gone down in roofing since COVID. And so I think that was a lot of like, "Oh, it's COVID. It's COVID." Okay, but what is it now that we're still at this high price point for, especially shingles? For me, that's been the biggest increase that stayed the same. We are still getting price increases for shingles where shingles and metal are a lot more comparable than probably what makes sense for them to be. And so I'd say that's where inflation is killing us in the materials and then like I said, with the higher cost of insurance to run the business, I think those two things together have caused the overhead to just skyrocket without the ability to push it off to the buyers of the roof, but we also can't save that money in labor either. Our labor costs are the highest they've ever been and going up daily.

And so when cost is going up and there's nobody to cover that expense, it falls back on the contractor and then we struggle and I think with acquisitions, that's a lot of what it comes down to. There's a lot of people that just cannot withstand that because they can't front the money. Whether it be the insurance company that takes 90 days or 120 days to pay out on a claim or it's a homeowner that maybe didn't know how bad their roof was until we tore it off and now they have bills that they didn't know that they couldn't pay.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: It was like, before COVID and everything, I would give out an out-of-pocket bill and I'd have, "This is good for a year." And now, it's so volatile ever since COVID, the election years and everything, gas prices going up, I can only give you a 30-day notice. It's like, "Here's your bid because in 30 days it's going to be different."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: Absolutely.

Randy Fletcher: But during COVID, every 30 days we were getting new pricing sheets from everyone and I was like, "Oh my God. We're-

Tammy Hall: On everything.

Randy Fletcher: Right. We didn't have a pricing change for over a year or two years and now all the sudden, every 30 days is something different.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Heather: Yep. I agree. And they've never gone down, ever.

Randy Fletcher: Never gone down.

Heidi Ellsworth: No.

Heather: Never.

Heidi Ellsworth: And what are you hearing from your consumers, from your homeowners, Donnie? What are you hearing around them with interest rates and stuff?

Donnie Smith: Everybody knows the cost of living right now is [inaudible 00:45:12].

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donnie Smith: So, we have to combat that the best way we can, offering an array of payment options and whatnot and when it comes down to it, when it comes to financing and whatnot, dialing in those loaners that have the lower interest rates and doing the work on our end to be able to provide a better option for them.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. That's really insane. You see it nationally, Johnny.

Johnny Walker: Oh yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: What are you seeing on the economy and just overall?

Johnny Walker: It's just turmoil right now. I mean everybody's very cautious, commercially. Nobody wants to have those big capital expenditures out there. Of course, with the restoration side and repair side of what we do, everybody's looking at the least expensive options and those are sometimes the least expensive. So nationally we're seeing that grow more as the economy becomes tumultuous that we see more of that happening. It's a lot cheaper to repair it, stop a leak for the day than it is to re-roof it. And outside of Florida where they're not forcing that, we see that growing more and more and more. It's been tough. I mean, even for us, we're one of those guys that we're putting out the price increases to distribution and we didn't want to do it, but our costs during COVID doubled.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Johnny Walker: I mean not 10%, they doubled. And like you're saying, you're trying to absorb some of that and as a manufacturer, there's only so far you can go. We have shareholders and board of directors and all that. They have a certain margin that you want to try to achieve with every business. So it is a constant battle. Where does it actually go from here man? I don't know. It doesn't seem like it has an end to it at the moment.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, I think one of the things to me that's so strange is we hear all this, we know it, we see it in our day, the inflation and everything that's going, but people are still buying roofs. When you hear how busy everyone is with jobs still coming in, the homeowners and building owners, they're still doing it. It's like no matter what happens it's kind of like everybody's just going in defiance of, "Nope. We're going to keep doing what we're doing. Are you?"

Tammy Hall: Well, the nice thing about roofing, it's a double-edged sword, but everybody needs a roof.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: And if you don't have a roof, there's a whole list of consequences that happen. So I think being able to offer finance options, I know our same-as-cash is always a big, a lot of people do that. Southwest Florida, we're a little bit more fortunate. While we're not a big commercial market, we have a very good, strong commercial market and we have no vacancies. We've got a lot of new construction going on. So for us, we're very diverse. So one division, this and that. We also have mechanical. And so we kind of keep our fingers in all of the pies, but we're seeing a little bit of a slowdown on the residential side, but because of the relationships we have, we're staying very steady.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: But yeah, I think the inflation, if interest rates can come down this year, I think that's going to be huge for a lot of folks. Florida has My Safe Florida Home. They put $100 million into hardening roofs, windows, restoration. They were very keen on really categorizing how you can apply for it now. So now you have low income. Over 60 is their focus market. So they're triggering different deadlines. They also opened it up to all licensed contractors in Florida so you don't have to be a My Safe Florida Home register, which we were. Now it's open to all contractors. The homeowner is responsible for that. They opened it up to the condo market, but it's now very much fixed on low income, moderate income and over 60 is going to get that first hit at that 100 million.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Heather: That's been so helpful for us.

Tammy Hall: It has been. Yeah. It's huge.

Heather: North Florida, it's been so helpful and the program, it took a little while to get through it, but I feel like they've done great figuring out the kinks of that and this age bracket is going to be so helpful. I think they're going to get a lot of roofs out of it and that's helped offset the expense a ton.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: It's up to $10,000. So for every dollar you put in, they'll give you up to $10,000.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow. Okay.

Tammy Hall: So, if you have a $20,000 roof, you're going to get 10,000. That just makes it so much more affordable for the consumer.

Heather: And if you are low income-

Tammy Hall: It's a reimbursement.

Heather: It's dollar for dollar reimbursement. And so for every dollar you spend they'll match a dollar. And like she was saying, you used to have to be a preferred contractor. So that was a nice little program there for the last year or so and I think there's like three or four in North Florida, but I think programs like that help a ton with the help offset the cost of roofing for homeowners.

Johnny Walker: But with that preferred program, that's also ensuring that it's a quality roofer-

Heather: That's right.

Tammy Hall: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Johnny Walker: That's doing that work.

Heather: That's right.

Johnny Walker: If they're going to hedge the bet on it, make sure you got [inaudible 00:50:01]

Heather: And I think Florida's going to go to a lot more of that, whether it be through these programs or insurance carriers, it's going to be where it's all preferred vendor to try and cut down on some of that and they can hold higher standards and say, "Hey, we want this license. Proof of this. Proof of your insurance. So many reviews. So many references."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. As they go through. That's really interesting. And one of the things, you said it, I think Donnie you said it, but I'm not sure, over here that I think is to kind of summarize all this, to go back to the very beginning when we were talking about mergers and acquisitions and what's happening there, you can kind of hear just from everything you're talking about why, besides the fact of all the money coming in from private equity, but why this is happening. People are looking for full-time labor. You said you bought a company just recently. Mechanical, right?

Tammy Hall: Well no. We actually started our mechanical from the ground up, but in our lightweight concrete-

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, lightweight concrete.

Tammy Hall: We bought our subcontractor who was out of actually Pennsylvania, but they were struggling with labor, they were struggling with some things, so we just brought some expertise and we actually bought their assets. So we didn't actually buy their company. We bought their assets.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. So I think we're going to see more of this for so many reasons that whether it's economics or whether it's labor or material, purchasing, all of that, it seems there's a lot driving in the industry right now that I find very interesting. So-

Johnny Walker: You're seeing that on the distribution side as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes.

Johnny Walker: Merger after merger after merger. And it increases their overall buying power.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah.

Johnny Walker: And you see it on the roofing side between more and more roofers, like what you guys are doing and even on the manufacturing side, they're coming together. When we look at how can we keep prices low, I mean it's either or keep our margins, we raise the price, buy better. That's one of the big key things we do. So when you merge together, we merged with a pocket Gardner merged with ICP about three years ago and that brought our overall buying power better. So there's definite reasons for that.

Heidi Ellsworth: There's a lot and we're seeing it every day. So okay. Coming to the end of our hour here, but what I'd like to do is have everybody pull out their crystal balls and we're going to talk a little bit about 2025 or maybe a year from now when we're back here for the FRSA, but kind of what are some of the things you're seeing going forward? I loved when you were talking about the trends about the recyclability, the sustainability, but what are some things that are really important to your company, I'm going to start with you Heather, looking at 2025?

Heather: For us, I think it's really making sure that we have a shingle manufacturer that we can depend on that has a really good warranty program, but also making sure just that our labor warranty is there, that we're available for our community, to make sure that we're there quickly when they need us and that we're around if there's problems two, three, four, five, 10 years down the road. And I think that's the biggest thing is name recognition and you can depend on us to be here. If you call us, we're going to be judged. That's probably the biggest thing.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I mean, and kind of to that point, when you think about again, what is happening with the consolidation, stuff like that, reputation, your company branding is more important than ever.

Heather: I agree. Yep. And it counts on if a storm going to hit Florida, we're going to have high winds, we're going to have hail, we're going to bad weather and it's nice to know that you have a roofer that you can trust and call and not every roofing incident is it, "Oh my gosh, I got to find somebody. Oh, I got to find somebody." We want you to meet us, like us, have a good relationship with us and then reach out if you need us down the road and kind of take that anxiety away. So I'd say that's the biggest trend and then also going to sustainable roofing materials. I think there's going to be a huge push to that in the next year or two. And like you were saying, the steel coatings and stuff, it's going to be a game-changer and as the south kind of upticks it, it'll slowly trickle up north and we'll be seeing it in the next year or two.

Heidi Ellsworth: There's only so much room in the landfills.

Heather: Yeah. I agree.

Heidi Ellsworth: We need to start doing things just a little bit different. What do you see in your crystal ball, Donnie?

Donnie Smith: I know we've beaten the stone-coated steel to death, but I'm just going to see, continue that to growth.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Donnie Smith: I mean, you got to think, people with shingle roofs that want that tile look, they're not going to have to do anything kind of structural changes because it's actually lighter than shingles. Then with the acquisition of what we did this year, what I touched on earlier is getting the best business practices and growing our company and then always being there for the community, just becoming the neighborhood roofer. They're so jaded when it comes to the storm chasers and whatnot, giving us a bad name. Being able to get them to trust us, that's huge to us, but letting them know that we are here to serve the community.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That's awesome.

Randy Fletcher: And you're very good at that. As far as, for one, I want to see this robot roofer.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: That's right.

Randy Fletcher: As soon as we leave here, I'm going to go check that out.

Tammy Hall: Yeah. We're going to go see that.

Randy Fletcher: But like they said, we're battling storm chasers and everything. Clients don't understand, they got a bid for a roof five years ago, I'm giving them a bid, "Oh, you're way too high," I'm like, "That's the standard. I'm at my minimum. There is no haggling. This is my minimum price." And then somebody else come along because they can cut corners and material and use lesser product. And you know the statement, you get what you pay for.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: That's right.

Randy Fletcher: So, all I can say is, I have a little joke I tell my client at the last day of the build and we're wrapping up and everything, I say, "Unless you're sending me a referral, I hope I never hear from you again." That means I did a good job.

Johnny Walker: Did a good job.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right?

Randy Fletcher: You don't have any leaks, you don't have any problems, we're good to go.

Heidi Ellsworth: We're all good. Yeah. So quality, durability, all those things you're going to need, and I love how you said the technology because I think automation, it's going to move fast and it's going to move faster than anybody really knows.

Tammy Hall: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: Imagine manufacturers, I don't know, 50, 40 years ago what it was like versus today.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: Yeah.

Randy Fletcher: You never know.

Johnny Walker: We have some robotic things in our plants. Yes, absolutely. And that's not going to get less. That's only going to grow.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Johnny Walker: 100%.

Heidi Ellsworth: Whenever there's a need, Americans tend to come with some solutions and I think that's where we're going to, we know the needs that are out there and automation's going to start filling those gaps. But what are you seeing as some key trends going into 2025?

Johnny Walker: Oh. For the rest of 2024, I think it's going to be a little bit of a turmoil. We are in a really tough election year and it doesn't matter who that is. That's always tough. It always affects how the markets feel.

Heidi Ellsworth: Exactly.

Johnny Walker: I think coming out of it, we're going to be strong. We're going to be strong at the end of the year overall. I think that's, most of the roofers that I've spoken to, they're all doing well. Their books are full. So that's a good sign. Some of the distributors that I've talked to, they're a little light on different areas of the country. But overall, it's been a pretty good year and I think we'll end strong. Going into 2025, absolutely, automation and technology is going to be a key thing. We are definitely seeing a trend to metal. As you mentioned, asphalt shingles are continuing to grow in price and at what point does that just flip, right, and you go, "Hey, okay."

Tammy Hall: Yeah. Especially with the 15-year rule on the shingles, it makes that price gap a lot harder to sell.

Johnny Walker: I mean, for me personally, my next roof on my home is going to be a metal roof. So I definitely will see that trend.

Randy Fletcher: Me too.

Johnny Walker: Right.

Donnie Smith: I think we're all in.

Johnny Walker: Definitely interested in the-

Randy Fletcher: Stone-coated metal.

Johnny Walker: Stone-coated metal.

Randy Fletcher: That's what I'm going with.

Johnny Walker: It's a great looking roof. So I think you're going to see a lot of those types of trends to continue to grow. For us, we're also seeing, as I stated before, a growing repair and restoration continues to grow throughout the country. That coatings restoration and when I say that, training is key there. You can paint a roof. That doesn't waterproof a roof, right. And having that contractor-

Tammy Hall: You could say that again.

Johnny Walker: We try to avoid the ... yeah. We try to promote that Chuck in the truck's not always your best guy.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Johnny Walker: Make sure that you have a licensed quality roofer and that they're properly trained on the product that they're installing. Whether that be shingles or roof coatings or metal roofing, single ply, whatever, just make sure that they know what they're doing and we continue to grow that. Our plan is to grow our training next year, add more trainings throughout the country and we're looking at, I know you've seen our mobile trailer we take around.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. It's awesome. Yeah.

Johnny Walker: We're growing that from one to three and want to continue to grow that. So that's kind of our goal and just keep growing on our successes and knocking off the negatives.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well I think when you look at what we've all talked about in this last hour, when it comes to retention and recruitment and quality, safety, all that, it all comes down to training and education and getting that as early as we can in the schools and keeping it going with our manufacturers in the companies is key and that's going to continue to trend. Bring us home.

Tammy Hall: I think what's happening in 2024, as competition heats up, as we're seeing these mergers and acquisition, I think that the trend is going to be stronger communication, more digitalization of communication.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: I think that people are realizing on the negative side of that, I think people are realizing that human contact. So I think you're still going to see companies really focus on their business development because at the end of the day, people, COVID, they really isolated us. And so our relationships are driving business and as people are looking for, "Can I get merged?" You've got to have a good portfolio of business. You have to be a strong company. They're not looking for the guys who aren't successful.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. No. Yeah.

Tammy Hall: And whether you want to merge or not, the idea is, "Let's make sure that we're communicating clearly. We're doting the I's, we're crossing the T's. Our crews are trained and we're doing good business practices." And I think that's going to be a stronger trend in Florida at least due to a lot of the politics that are going on, a lot of legislative changes. The new code that just came out and the consumer education. The state's doing a really good job educating consumers on a lot of these things to our benefit for those of us who are doing it right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Tammy Hall: So, I think that's going to be a very strong trend for the rest of '24 and then going into '25.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That's excellent. Wow. I've learned so much today and I have enjoyed this immensely. Thank you all so much for everything.

Heather: Thank you for having us.

Heidi Ellsworth: For being here, for bringing Coffee Conversations Live to the whole country from Florida. So-

Tammy Hall: Thanks Heidi.

Heidi Ellsworth: Thank you.

Tammy Hall: You guys do a great job.

Heidi Ellsworth: Oh, thank you.

Heather: It's nice to be on this side of it.

Outro: Yeah. There you go. So I want to say thank you to everybody watching out there. We heard some of you are coming on to check out our guests here, but we know there's a lot of you out there. Thank you so much. This is the kind of stuff that we try to bring to you all the time to help your business, to really take it to that next level because there's nothing better than hearing from everybody around the country what's happening and how you can improve.

We're going to have more conversations, a lot more interviews on the soundstage here from FRSA. Please stay tuned. Thank you for being part of Coffee Conversations and you'll be able to find this all on your favorite podcast channel on YouTube where you need to subscribe, and of course, on Roofer Coffee Shop, Metal Coffee Shop and Coatings Coffee Shop. We'll be back soon.