Chris Meyers - Condensation Kills: The Invisible Threat to Roofs! - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Chris Meyer of VaproShield. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast.

Karen Edwards: Hello and welcome to another episode of Roofing Road Trips from rooferscoffeeshop.com. My name's Karen Edwards and today I'm really thrilled to welcome Chris Meyer from VaproShield and we're gonna be talking all about a problem that people don't always think about when it comes to roofing and that's condensation. So Chris, welcome.

Chris Meyer: Hi Karen, happy to be on.

Karen Edwards: Excellent. Well, before we dive into the topic, could you just introduce yourself? Tell us what your role is and maybe tell us a little bit about VaproShield.

Chris Meyer: Yeah, absolutely. So kind of starting with with Vapro Shield. Vapro Shield is a pretty mature company, a little over 20 years old. Started off in the wall industry and last year was really our first foray into commercial roofing. which that kind of segues into a little bit about me. So my role with the company is I head up the commercial roofing segment. So overseeing marketing, business development, a few other functions. Basically just trying to bring this new solution to a market that has a clear need.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, so interesting because you said you just entered the commercial roofing space recently, but the company is 20 plus years old. So tell me what was the original use for the product and then how did you figure out that it could work on roofs?

Chris Meyer: So the original use for the product was really around the changing in wall construction and the need for water-resistant barriers, especially breathable water-resistant barriers. And really it kind of happened today, I don't want to say serendipitous because obviously things failing aren't great, but it did happen at a good time for the company because especially up in the Northwest, there was a lot of problems with mold.

Rod and other structural integrity issues going on with walls because of the over restriction of vapor That's kind of where the company cut its teeth and started As far as getting into roofing You know these products were were launched into Steep slope roofing is an underlayment application ice and water barrier type stuff And that kind of took off but

You know, as we're seeing the transition to not only the cost competitiveness and commercial roofing, which obviously can come down to cents, taking out layers or being able to build things in a different way helps. And then obviously.

Again, as things are getting more expensive, the total cost of ownership building owners are starting to take a lot more of a look at, okay, it's costing me how much up X upfront. But then on top of that, how much is it costing me per year in maintenance and how long is this thing gonna last?

Karen Edwards: Right. It's the total number over the lifespan that you have to think about. But so many people just look at that initial cost, right? And then they fail to think about all that comes after and the lifespan. So I want to move into, you said air movement, air barriers, vapor. These are subjects that I think aren't always easy to understand.

Chris Meyer: Mm-hmm.

Karen Edwards: Can you talk about why the moving air and condensation is problematic for roofs that aren't using a product like VaporShield?

Chris Meyer: Yeah. so I think a lot of it is there's a lot of confusion because it's very high sciency technical right now around, you know, what is an air barrier? What is a vapor barrier? and then there's also, because a lot of that is coming from building science. Then you have the, the kind of the way that the industry has always thought about these things. So, you know, when you talk to your average, you know, roof contractor,

A vapor barrier blocks vapor from getting from the internal space into my roof. It doesn't matter what vehicle that moisture is traveling on, whether it be air movement or diffusion, it stops it. And that's the way the industry is coming to think about it. So it's a little bit of butting heads on, you know, what's the right way to talk about this.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, exactly. So enlighten me.

Chris Meyer: Yeah, so as far as air movement, there's a lot of studies out there. There's even recent stuff from the NRCA. There was a really good article, or actually a few, but the one that comes to mind was an IBEK article around moisture infiltration in mechanically attached roof systems.

And that was talking more about the real world stuff because there's a bunch of different things that causes air movement up into a roof system. But essentially wherever air moves, so does moisture. And air movement can move up to a hundred times more moisture than diffusion can. So when you have these roof systems, which you know, your most common roof today, membrane insulation structural deck.

And they'll say well my staggered iso is is my my air barrier in theory that that works really well in practicality it doesn't so whether it be temperature differentials which we see that a lot especially in the colder months with mixed humid climates whether it be pressure differentials from the HVAC system, but the most common one that I always use that really kind of drives it home is, you know, negative wind pressure is coming across that roof on a daily basis, every minute, every hour. That always creates a vacuum, which is drawing that internal environment air up into your roof. When it hits cold surfaces, moisture starts to accumulate in that air, it condenses, now you've got a problem.

Karen Edwards: Right.

Chris Meyer: And that happens, most people think about it of, you know, it stays in there and it sits. That air is constantly cycling new moisture up into the roof system. So this happens on a daily basis and every night when that roof, the outside temperature starts to cool down, the roof cools down at a much slower rate. So the bottom side of that membrane is gonna be a cold surface and you're instantly gonna have any moisture that's left over accumulated in that roof is gonna condense.

Karen Edwards: Wow, okay. So how then does Slope Shield solve the problem?

Chris Meyer: So Slope Shield uniquely solves the problem because of its technology. And what I mean by that is it blocks all of the air movement. So you're cutting out roughly your 10 times more moisture movement out of the equation. But where it differs from the competition is that it does allow breathability. So it's not a vapor barrier.

And where that gives you a lot of applicability is we're seeing a lot of condensation in standard internal humidity buildings or buildings that cycle like a school gymnasium that on an average day, it doesn't need full vapor restriction. And, you know, you pack that gym full of 300 parents on a Friday night basketball game. Now all of a sudden you're getting condensation building in the roof from all that heat difference.

Using a true vapor barrier in that scenario most often, depending on where the project's located, what climate zone. Obviously, we're talking about more the building usage and occupancy, the color of membrane that's going on the roof, the roof system design, all of that comes into effect. But.

When you would put a true vapor barrier in those types of scenarios, it actually causes more problems than it solves. So with Slope Shield having that breathability aspect, it allows the system to adapt. It allows it to release any trapped moisture that would happen to accumulate, but it blocks the majority of moisture from ever getting in there in the first place.

Karen Edwards: Okay, so I just want to clarify because I've said VaproShield up until now and then I just said SlopeShield. So VaproShield is the company, right? And SlopeShield is the product that we're talking about today to eliminate the condensation problem. Okay, so I just want to be clear, make sure everybody understands that. So let's talk about how it can be incorporated

Chris Meyer: Yes.

Karen Edwards: Into a new roofing system.

Chris Meyer: So we have quite a few code compliant options. we just, significantly increased our roof nav listings. we have full nail seal ability, so you can mechanically fasten right through the product. it is self-adhered primer lists, to wood, concrete, steel, bunch of different substrates and can be incorporated into almost any roof system.

Karen Edwards: It sounds perfect. Wow. Okay. I'm curious that what, has the reception been? I'm sure you're talking to folks who are designing the roofs and, are they, are they kind of like, Hmm, I don't know. Or are they like, yeah, what a great idea. I love it. What's the, what's the feedback kind of been?

Chris Meyer: Well, the feedback has been, I would say, good majority. Obviously, people have known that roofs have historically always gone through their wetting and drying cycles. it's been inspiring to see the light bulb moment go off for a lot of people. Because we've been talking about this for a while of what were going to be the effects of shifting our roofs from mainly black to mainly white or whatever color it might be.

With more that we focus on the urban heat island and lowering that effect, it changes the dynamics of the roof where a roof can't go through the seasonal wetting and drying cycles that old black roofs used to be able to go through. So to be able to address that, we need to think a little bit differently about controlling that roof envelope.

To stop everything else. you know, the other reception part that's been very interesting to see is, you know, if you'd look at the cutaway of a roof system and a lot of times we get very hung up on what's on top here. And you know, that price can range, but typically it's under a dollar and everything that you're putting underneath it can be four to $7 a square foot. Well, the current way of building, you're not protecting the most expensive part.

Karen Edwards: We do, yeah.

Chris Meyer: If your capital investment because you don't have that moisture control layer at the bottom protecting those elements.

Karen Edwards: Out of sight, out of mind a lot of times, right? Because visually you're seeing the part that's on top. So people, I think, tend to focus on that and not worry as much about those layers underneath. Wow. Okay. So, you know, we talked about

Chris Meyer: Yes.

Karen Edwards: Starting at the design phase and you mentioned about building occupancy and use and where the location is. How much does the system type matter? What's on top? Does that make any difference really at all when you're designing the roof system?

Chris Meyer: So what's on top does matter to the extent of is it highly reflective or is it not? Because obviously if you're lowering or lowering the heat drain, let me start that one from the top. So it does matter what you're putting on top as far as the solar reflectance, emissivity, cool roofing, because that changes how warm the roof system gets during the day.

Karen Edwards: Okay.

Chris Meyer: And how much heat it retains and that heat is directly impacting how it's drying ability. So to kind of counteract that you really need to add a dedicated moisture control solution at the bottom or as close to the bottom of your roof system as possible to protect all of the components of your roof system.

Karen Edwards: Okay, got it. So let's talk about how Slope Shield benefits the roof system while it's performing its job as a roof.

Chris Meyer: Yeah, so I'd say I'd start off with a story and this is really one that I'm sure a lot of contractors will appreciate because they've probably been in similar situations.

And it's a story from a few years ago. was up on a job inspection and it was in January. So, you know, in Cleveland, Ohio, not the best time to be on a roof. but we were walking the roof and the building owner was starting to get very nervous. And he's like, well, the roof's cracking under my feet. So we, we, you know, knelt down, we took a look at it and

Karen Edwards: It's cold.

Chris Meyer: It's like, well, no, there's nothing wrong with your roof membrane. The cracking that you're hearing is actually a thin layer of ice that's directly underneath your membrane. And you could see the light bulb go off. And that's essentially what we're looking at here is solving that issue, making sure that that doesn't happen. so from a operational phase, it's really around the peace of mind. so when you, when insulation gets wet.

NRCA's release numbers, I believe it was the NRCA, that it can create a heat sink on your insulation's performance up to 40%. Well, from an energy efficiency standpoint, that's a 40 % increase in your heating and cooling costs. So that's one of the advantages that it adds. It obviously adds to your insulation integrity there, making sure there's no...

Karen Edwards: Wow, yeah, that's a lot.

Chris Meyer: Dimensional or damage to the product from moisture over time. And the big one is the integrity of your roofing materials. With these increased wind events that we've seen, the hurricanes coming through certain states, tornadoes definitely becoming more frequent. We just had one up here in Cleveland for the first time that I can remember.

So wind events are becoming more important and as moisture gets introduced into a roof system, it can compromise the wind uplift integrity of that roof, whether that be damaging materials through time, breaking down different materials, could, for example, re-emulsify certain adhesives. All those things are something to take into account.

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah, wow. That's crazy.

Chris Meyer: And then, know, from kind of the new, the new shiny object standpoint, you know, there's a lot of talk around air leakage. This product solves all air leakage issues because it is a full air barrier. So it brings you fully up to any of the newer codes and, and make sure your building is going to last with, you know, mitigating any of those moisture issues in your roof, limiting your, your total cost of ownership over time.

Karen Edwards: So as a contractor who may be working with a building owner and working on options for roofing systems, it sounds like a no brainer to propose the slope shield because you're not gonna get called back in a year, right?

Chris Meyer: Absolutely. you know, that's, I put it this way is, is, know, different horses for different courses is slope shield. The solution for every single roof out there. No. does it have its unique fit? Absolutely. Are there times you need a full vapor barrier? Absolutely. but the other part that this product really adds that is beneficial for a contractor is from a workload perspective, it's really hard to find good people right now.

Karen Edwards: Right.

Chris Meyer: And one contractor I spoke to earlier last year, you know, had three different projects going on at the same time that needed to get done. And he only had one crew available. So what we were able to do with this product is tear everything off. Put this product down, tape the seams as required. Then his crew could move on to the next job because that building was in the dry.

Karen Edwards: Wow.

Chris Meyer: Move on to the next job, get that one going and come back because this product can be exposed for up 180 days.

Karen Edwards: Wow, that's a huge benefit. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah.

Chris Meyer: Area. So it adds a lot of flexibility for a contractor as well during the construction phase of the job.

Karen Edwards: Right, yeah, I mean that is a huge benefit and as you said, it's hard to find labor and if you're in that situation where you have multiple projects going on, that's perfect solution. I love it. All right, so I know, I'm a contractor, I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like, I need to know more about this. Where can I find more information?

Chris Meyer: Absolutely.

Chris Meyer: You So there are tons of places you can find more information. Obviously, first and foremost would be our website. There's links there to where you can purchase it. You can find local members of our teams in your area. Obviously, the Roofers Coffee Shop landing page, you can find more information about us there. We also do AIA presentations.

Either through places like BNP media that there's still an AIA available there. But we also do, you know, kind of more a unique approach where people can request it and we will actually do one, you know, schedule a specific time for our team to go ahead and do that with any type of regional office that wants to do it, things of that nature. And, you know, obviously for the time of year, Come and see us at the International Roofing Expo. know, booth 12123.

Karen Edwards: This year, yeah, yeah, we're in San Antonio, Texas here in just a few short weeks. Wow, that's crazy. But yeah, the information's out there. I think that the most important thing, because this is, it's different, you know, it's not a new concept, but I think it's different. And so I think it's important to educate yourself about it so that you can speak. as an authority on the topic to your customers. And I'm speaking to contractors, even architects, right? Because they need to understand. And I think it's so easy when someone says the word building science, I start to go, ooh, science. I'm not good at science. I don't like it. And it gets kind of scary. But you did an amazing job of really helping me to understand it. hopefully everybody out there listening is like,

Chris Meyer: Absolutely.

Chris Meyer: Thanks

Karen Edwards: Yeah, that makes total sense, because it sure does for me.

Chris Meyer: Yeah, I'd say, you know, the fun part of my job is getting to help simplify the science. And, you know, it's fun for some to talk up in this area and, you know, the bells, whistles, air movement, know, Pascals, all this stuff. I like to say, you know, I'm a regular guy. So let's talk how the real world works.

Karen Edwards: Yes, well, you did a great job. This was really, really interesting. Thank you so much for being here today and for sharing all this information with our listeners. It was a pleasure to have you, Chris.

Chris Meyer: Thank you, Karen. It was a pleasure to be here and looking forward to continuing to work with Rufers Coffee Shop. You guys are fantastic and really looking forward to seeing this momentum that we're starting to see here at the beginning of this year continue and helping contractors solve some problems.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. And thank you, everybody out there for listening to this episode. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast because we hope to see you on a future episode. Thanks for listening. See you next time.