tearing off shingles on ice and watershield

y'all ever had to tear off shingles that were put on directly over ice and watershield? We have had a one job where the shingles were just stuck in the i&w that we couldn't get them off. I'm just wondering if there are certian types of i&w to aviod or if it was just the hot weather that caused that problem. Maybe they will come off in cold weather. I havn't run accross it enough times to really know that it is a fact that the shingles won't come off.

I've got this new housing project job and the Arch has it specd that we install shingles directly on the i&w (the whole roof). I'm planning on using "Tarco" i&w because they are the cheapest ($32/roll). I've never used Tarco i&w either. We usually use Tamko stormguard but it was a good bit more and there is a lot of it.

I would hate to be the feller that has to tear-off these shingles down the road.

Would you bring this up to the Arch or just let it go and put the shingles on the way he says to put them on?

minnesotaroofin Said: Yea i agrre probably even more so - I think it is all a marketing scam by the manufactures to make up for all the hack roofers out there who cannot install a roof without having back up protection -- in my opinion if the primary system fails the whole roof is toast. I have torn off more roofs than i can count with no felt or I & W that never had any problems until it got covered in a plastic bag - even the synthetic felts do not breathe very well.

As far as removing the decking to get the I&W off we typiciall just put a new layer over the top -- even some of the shingles are still stuck to it normally all the shingles except a 1 inch strip comes off and if you go back on with dimensionals you never even notice -- 3 tabs are a different story you can see a little variation where the stuck 1 inch strips wont come off.

For decades, I thought that "secondary roof protection" was overrated. Then I moved to Texas where the rain blows sideways. My first job here in Texas was a roof leak call. The water had damaged the drywall in the middle of their "great room". I went there confident that I'd find a leak near a chimney, vent or pipe. Nope...the leak was in the middle of a clear section of roof. There were no signs of entry point ANYWHERE. I finally decided that we had to take off shingles at the leak point to see what was happening. The result? The felt had been torn and folded upward exposing the wood deck. Water was blown up and under the shingles and entered in that one spot.

I fixed the felt, re-shingled and I checked two years later and they hadn't had any more leaks.

The roof was a 9/12. I think it had 25 yr 3 tab shingles.

I now believe that secondary weather barriers are necessary.

Jed, you are so right! I wrapped a building 90 sq with a pool built inside. I had them sign a waiver, sure enough years later I get a call that it's leaking. Condensation from the pool couldn't escape.. LOL I warned them and they didn't listen. Now there stuck with it! :cheer:

Soldierboy, You are right to have concerns, I have the same ones and think the effects of using such a system have yet to be seen. It is spec'd regularly around here, matter of fact I spoke of it on the last thread about tile, a school 4oosq ish and the whole school to be wrapped in I+w first. Problem is we always get back to the same old line from the armchair quarter backs, "well if you don't use a water proof underlayment on a slate or tile roof it WILL leak". Roofers familiar with that type of work know it's bullshit but those saying it truly believe it.

If I understand this correctly. Your putting ice and water shield on the entire roof surface? Tell me if I'm wrong but isn't ice and water shield also a vapor barrier? Won't that warp the plywood or OSB? I have seen a homeowner use it on his entire roof and what a mess two years later. He had us take of the shingles and wood. We only went up 4 ft. into the heated wall for him. He had two ft. overhangs. Anyway,good luck on the project. I would make them sign a waiver form first.

use rosin paper between the two very cheap and will most likely prevent them from bonding together

We are working on one right now that I have to tear off. We are just going to tear off the plywood to get everything off and then reframe it. No other way.

The Roofing God Said:

tico Said: that sounds like overkill.dont you just use I&W for valleys and eaves where your at? using the granule type of I&W doesnt matter.it permeates because of the heat.

Why would you consider the felt overkill,the shingles weld to the ice shield,and sometimes only way to get them off is with heat,the granules also coat your clothes when it`s hot,whereas putting felt over it,is cheap,protects your clothes,holds a chalk line longer,and keeps the ice shield from welding itself to the shingles

Maybe I misunderstood ???????

p.s. the idea of felting over the I&W makes sense to me.

WildBill Said: yall ever had to tear off shingles that were put on directly over ice and watershield? We have had a one job where the shingles were just stuck in the i&w that we couldnt get them off. Im just wondering if there are certian types of i&w to aviod or if it was just the hot weather that caused that problem. Maybe they will come off in cold weather. I havnt run accross it enough times to really know that it is a fact that the shingles wont come off.

I'd think that was a good thing that shingles would stick like glue to I&W. Imagine, if we can't get them off, how much harder a time the wind will.

Ive got this new housing project job and the Arch has it specd that we install shingles directly on the i&w (the whole roof). Im planning on using Tarco i&w because they are the cheapest ($32/roll). Ive never used Tarco i&w either. We usually use Tamko stormguard but it was a good bit more and there is a lot of it.

I would hate to be the feller that has to tear-off these shingles down the road.

Would you bring this up to the Arch or just let it go and put the shingles on the way he says to put them on?

Don't worry about the next guy. Worry about your own work. If it gives the customer a great finished product and either lives or outlives it's warranty, use what delivers what you promise.

And if you're the one who is still in business when that roof needs to be replaced, more work for you which ='s mo' $. :)

Again, all as long as you give them a great job and provide what you promise.

As long as you follow the spec, you're in the clear liability-wise.

Good luck.

I've been thinkin about this all day.bacin miami after Andrew we did over 200 homes in 2 1/2 yrs. most of you know,we always used 30 paper (which the dade co. approved is like A 45)I had A flashbach,or an epiphany if you will. we used the old flat and serated edged spapes.the goal we set was to leave the paper as much as we could.it made pullin nails easier,less grit in the joints and valleys then we stripped it bare.someone with A spade and someone rollin paper. remembering this then thinking back to A repair I did in Decatur,I had to go from A dormer to A valley,both of which were I&W'ed.it really wasn't that bad.I think part of the tear off that would bring difficulty is the rakes they use now. I feel confident that were I to roll up on A home with I&W on the entire roof I could find a way commensurate to time and cost effectiveness. man,we're roofers.no one see's what we see or do/work as hard as we do or did. one thing I do continue to notice,every crew of roofers has one white boy that jams it through. I worked for one of them national co.'s and they made me an inspector vs. sales.I'm not an arm breaker,and storm chasin sales is. anyway,what nded up happenin as I am well versed and speak spanish and don't mind,as A matter of act,I loved to teach and pass on the info.it brought me great peace when them mexicans took the lesson.it was tough at first,then when I piped up in spanish they came around.real fast. so,I think things like this are where we distinguish roofers from roof applicators. roofers lead by example and applicators takedirection from the roofer only praying they becme one of us. God bless my trade!!!

thanks for the replies...I can now say for sure that it will be a problem the next time the project is reroofed...I think I will see what the shingle manufacturer's position is on this before I bring it up to the Arch.

Sometimes you just have to follow the spec. even though you don't agree. And hope you are not the one who has to deal with it in 15-20 years. Anyways, if I ever have the problem...I would follow "The Roofing God"....charge to replace the plywood.

that sounds like overkill.don't you just use I&W for valleys and eaves where your at? using the granule type of I&W doesn't matter.it permeates because of the heat.