SMACNA Standards

OK....

Here's a question I would like to pose to you guys that work in the industrial/commercial arena. Do you follow the SMACNA standards for shop fabricated sheet metal edge and coping systems? For instance; Concealed splice plates are shown to be 12 inches for standard gauge copings and perimeter edge drip and gravel stop edge systems. I just don't see this standard being followed and I would speculate that many contractors don't even know of this standard. I have seen concealed splice plates ranging in dimension from less than 4" to 6". I don't need to mention the disregard for securement of sheet metal edge systems I have observed.

I know that if one were to reference the International Building Code manual, the language is clear in terms of "the work in accordance with industry standards". I also know from my forensic experience that non-industry standard detailing can be a considerable liability, unless the bidding documents were incorrect and the work was executed as specified. However, designers typically have boiler plate language that they can fall back on if there is an issue. It is always the contractor's responsibility to inform the designer and execute the work correctly, in accordance with all of the industry standards......right?

I hope the wind never blows too hard!!!!!!!

Anyone care to step up to the plate?

Bob P. :ohmy:

good

I am not in the agricultural industry so what you said is completely new to me, smash karts so I have learned new knowledge about the industry that I have never done before. drift boss 

I don't think catastrophic loss as Mike means it is the only trigger for the liability. Mike is a reasonable man and reasonable doesn't always fly even when nature says it should, certainly not in my state and most certainly not in legal proceedings. Going through the court system IS the catastrophic loss and any conniving antagonist with a deep pocket to pick can take you there without having suffered catastrophic loss. When the legal gang gets its hands on the deck I guarantee you that anything at all, no matter how small, and no matter how impertinent, will most likely end up putting a big piece of pie on your plate and not at all the kind of pie my tummy yearns for. We aren't talking about meat pie that Friar Tuck and Robin Hood might serve a poor wayfaring traveller or anything from the loving hands of Betty Crocker or Aunt Jemima. Nobody's plate gets left empty and you want your piece to be as thin as possible. They serve it to you so you can keep your strength up and convert it into protein. They don't pick just any protein. They like it red and preferably full of corpuscles. Tankards of it. When you see heart, mind, body, and soul reduced to a single spec, think definition. You can find it in the general dictionary under "p" for policy or in the medical dictionary under "H" for hemophilia. I think of it as the pH factor. What was it Russell Crowe said to his army in the Gladiator? Something like if you find yourself alone riding through a green field don't try to find us. You are in Elysium and you are already dead. Not really all that funny, but there it is. If you can't see without glasses, watch your specs. It's not enough to be good at what you do. You have to be good at what they do.

Jed,

You crack me up. "low end systems"......

But I'm with ya on your drip edge details. I hate splice plates, be they concealed, annealed, par boiled, or just rode hard and put away wet. They suck.

I asked Bob, "What the hell are you getting at with that question on RCS".....

Has more to do with specification liability than with the particular merits of any particular detail. That's what he's gettin' at. Do we follow the spec to the letter of the law, if the spec refers to "industry standards" or "governing bodies" or "local code"? Cuz if we don't, the potential liablity in the case of a catastrophic loss, after it's gone through the court system, you're left holding the bag if you didn't follow specs to the letter of the law.

At least, that's how I understood his question. He kinda talks circles around me, so I'm never completely sure. LOL

My bad. Have to side with Mike then. I don't know WTF you're on about either, however IF "concealed splice plates" pertain mainly to single ply systems, (TPO/PVC) then that would explain my ignorance as we don't mess with the low end systems.

Jed: My question was specific to concealed splice plates, not cover plates.....and I couldn't agree with you any more regarding the problems with cover plates.

Mike: Hmmmm....your comment confirms my speculation of the level (or lack thereof) of awareness with regard to the SMACNA standard. Maybe we should invest in the latest version of the SMACNA manual and edumacate ourselves. (remember the Derbigum - SBS discussion we had last week)

EGG: Thank you Eric and Yes, you had it in your mind correctly. As far as shop fab vs. manufactured/ architectural systems are concerned, the issue was more specifically related to FM rated systems. However, FM has conceded a bit and includes or accepts shop fab components in a rated system, providing it closely matches dimension, gauge, and profile of the manuf/arch FM rated system. I am not versed in the building code standards in your area and can't offer any comment regarding a local code outlawing something, but sometimes local codes can take precedence if they are more stringent than the IBC standards. I apologize for not getting you that sample........someone decided to clean out the refrigerator and inadvertently threw my vacuumed sealed tobacco stash bag. The name of the tobacco is "Esoterica - Pennzance" It is an English flake that is packaged in a small tin.

"... you guys that work in the industrial/commercial arena..." This I am not, but I will comment anyway just because it is Bob P and he seems to be getting such an undeservedly small number of responses. I had it in my mind a splice plate went under, not over. On the gravel stop, whether or not it is industry standard I agree with Jed except I have to add that the problems never occurred for me except where the framing or sheathing was unstable. I learned early that adhesion of dissimilar materials was also critical and took extra care. Never had to deal with uplift on that detail because I never did high-rise and I'm not in an ultra- high wind zone. I can't imagine blow-offs being a problem with continuous cleats that are attached carefully, whatever the width of the splice plate. I would assume the splice plate is a leak-proofing backup at each joint, no? I would think the way the pieces fit, how the ends are shaped, and quality and placement of caulking at each side (?) would trump width considerations, but I tell you this, that if I were doing commercial and 12" was the standard, I wouldn't mess around with anything less. How much could the elimination of a few square inches of sheet metal possible save? I thought I read somewhere within the last year that job-fabricated & installer-fabricated coping was to be outlawed in favor of exclusive use of manuf. coping and edge products; is that true? (Never got that tobacco sample, Bob. Still waiting and my own supply will run out in about six more months. Better get busy lol)

Good golly Bob, we work together, and even I don't know wtf you're talkin' bout?

LOL

You can keep your "cover plates" on gravel stop. I've seen way more problems with them than the old four inch lap in a bed of pookey. (K.I.S.S.) Man last year I was on a local college roof that has a pararet wall running DOWN the roof with coping and cover plates, and no it was'nt standing seam. That boiler plate lingo caviat is a bitch though, especially if you are dealing with some hardass that will hold your feet to the fire.