Roof consultants..residential

Possibly someone can help me understand/deal. Now I've delt with plenty of roof consultants on commercial & gov't projects in past years.... Sort of SOP......However, I'm just having one heck of a time dealing with this current situation whereas a HOA customer has included a "roof consultant". It's a small, straight-forward, 10 bldg., comp shingle re-roof; Not rocket science.

Here's where my angst lies; How & why would a normally rational/intellegent individual or group of individuals come to the conclusion as to rely or put more trust in some self-proclaimed expert, (that in alot of cases is a failed contractor), than a real-life successful roofing contractor, that possess far greater experience and knowledge than this "consultant"? It just baffels me.....

I have to have a hernia operation....I research and select a capable doctor. Why, on God's green earth, would I hire a failed doctor to oversee my doctor's work?

I'm awfull at being PC.....I made it through a meeting last neght...Had to contain myself throughout....Any advice?>>>

After 69 years in the roofing/sheet metal trade, and as a registered engineer for 51 years, I trust that I have the qualifications to serve as a roofing consultant. Be that as it may, I gained most of my experience from the working foremen, and tried to learn something from each and every project. At a NRCA meeting years ago, a respected officer by the name of Paul Morris from Kansas City commented on roof consultants as follows; "I have known many good consultants, and I have known many bad ones". I guess the ones that ticked me off the most, were ex sales reps for the various roof manufacturers, cause their knowledge was gained by wearing blinders focused on their companies products. And A/E s who offered plans and specs, whose only knowlege was gained from conversing w/ these sales reps also ticked me off, for they get absolutely no training from academia. At another NRCA meeting the Dean of Yale Architecture commented, that architects know little if anything about the nuances of roofing, and that they let these mundane details to the professional roofing contractors. Then why in the world do they advertise themselves as roofing consultants.>>>

to you, he's the roof consultant, but to them, he's the everything consultant....roof leaks cause a plethora of issues, water in the ceiling from ice dams, window and door leaks, condensation, etc. This could be a good thing as he can deflect a lot of time wasting busy bodies getting in your way......maybe a couple of the more intelligent property owners knew what you were getting into, and headed off this problem in advance. I find jobs like these usually have a history of repeated maintenance. It's not a personal thing and I find that usually if you can pacify these kinds of project managers, your job will go smoothly. I wouldn't look at it as a " I know more than this guy" sort of thing but more of a "he's the guy that they trust to work with me". I had to fire a guy one time for drinking (beer) in the truck on the way back from lunch on a job, one time....with the crew. a case of beer between 5 guys. He threatened me in the office etc. A couple of years later, he was the building owner's rep from the Engineering co. At first, we didn't get along, but after a couple of days, he confided in me that he knew it was wrong, and these guys intimidated him daily.....he was actually releived to not have to work with them anymore.>>>

I got a call about a leak on a condo a few days ago! Later the same day another person called to explain what the problem was and then before i had time to make it out there a third person called to explain/offer suggestions as to what the problem was. It reminded me of the situation when a car breaks down and 5-6 guys who are not real mechanics state whats wrong with the car and they all have something different to say is the cause. All 3 of these people are on the "board" of the condo association! lol>>>

There have been many good replies to the original post. I loved Miscreants post. :laugh:

There may be an opportunity to turn the negative into a positive. Like JET, I don't like working for H.O.A. For many years I refused to work on ANY condominiums. Every old man in the building wants to tell you how to do your job and EVERY one of them did roofing when they were young. No thanks! BUT, if you could designate a single person (i.e. the Roofing Consultant) as your only person you have to deal with (after all, he 'IS' the expert according to the H.O.A.) then you might eliminate a lot of the typical B.S. we face when dealing with H.O.A.

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There are a few good consultants in the business but for the most part they're one man shows that couldn't make it in the trades so now they sell their "expertise" to unsuspecting organizations. Normally they have roofing companies in their back pocket that they will eventually direct the work to. To look "legit" they will tell their client that they have to get a number of "independent" bids. Then they'll take the lowest one and give their "buddy" the deal. How do I know this for a fact?.........email me and I'll give you the details.

HOA's are the absolute worst people to work with. They're made up of homeowners in the subdivision who are usually former teachers, insurance reps, etc., all with so-called "knowledge" of the trades and how their community should be ran. They're really little power brokers who like to make everyone as miserable as possible. We have HOA horror stories virtually daily down here in Florida. You couldn't give me ten million bucks to work for one.

JET>>>

Spot on Peter.....Problem is, I know too much about the guy.....I have no problem what-so-ever working with competent consultants....Have for 25+ years....I just have to kiss his butt, cross my fingers and hope for the best...Works too scarce these days to walk away from it....

What I was looking for, was input as to how to possibly understand the customer's logic/perception in accepting a self-proclaimed "expert" over that of a true practicing "expert",(other than the obvious, possible previous bad contaractor experience and such),.....It's kinda like the Obama syndrome we had here....Does it just boil down to "salesmanship"?>>>

Very good Peter1.

When I did very large Union Commercial projects, it was not common, yet not unexpected when a Roofing Consultant stood guard for the entire duration of the project and the company I worked for had a very reputable image.

They did not take offense to the work being monitored.

Unless you have something to hide, you should not either, so prove your professionalism to the RC and the board and win their favor for future projects.

Ed>>>

Hi,

Wait until both of you are alone and engage in a bit of man talk, you will soon work out if he is an azzhole or a Gent who has a job to do (Quality Control) and both of you make money.

If you have the pre-conceived ideas that I have seen posted like failed contractor etc you are off to a very bad start, this man was called in for a reason, maybe a previous contractor made a mess of a job and the customer just needs to be sure all is well.

The Consultant may have pre-conceived ideas about roofers who are always on the defensive, surprise him a warm hand shake and a smile will cost you nothing, don't forget he has other clients and may be pleased to find a professional contractor he can work with.

Prove yourself and you win, fight him and you lose today and into the future.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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I think it's important to share your concerns with all involved. Perhaps you could call a mandatory meeting of the Homeowners and the failed contractor. Make sure they understand you are not to be questioned or held accountable for the quality of your work. Let them know how unintelligent they are in general. Question their business acumen, question their motives, question their heritage and make fun of their kids. Do this while screaming. End the meeting by punching the failed contractor in the balls.>>>

Yep! Lose the ego, humble yourself and get along with this consultant guy to the maximum possible. ( even though your probably right it doesn't matter ) Understanding that they only want to be sure the work is done correctly. ( they do not know your abilities like you do ) I understand because over 25 yrs. i've had to deal with this sort of thing many, many times. My experience has been the more humble and compliant i am with the inspector/consultant whatever the better the results. Even when they are wrong and i know it. If they see you are being friendly and compliant they will usually not make things difficult for you. But if they suspect you of being a hard one then you may be in for a long ride. A lot of people do not place any value in you inspecting your own work. Because there is the natural tendancy to not want anything to be wrong, thus not find anything wrong. A third party does not have this prejudice. ( what makes this a pain in the arse in the roofing business is that their are many ways to do things and just becuase you do it a little different than the consultant would of doesn't mean its wrong. Just different! lol But nonetheless its best to just go along with them in most cases.)>>>