Right size crew?

We have seven on crew, seems to be best number for quality, speed, at the same time. Used to be me and one helper., not a problem back then, as we din't do the volume of work we do now. Tried four, tried five, if anyone missed a day, we fell behind, a little, but a little here and there adds up.Also helps us beat a lot of incoming afternoon thunderstorms, and also hi-heat and humidity, as a lot of times we start on job by 6:15 or so a.m. , and have the job done by lunchtime or a little after. If we have job done in six hours or so, I still pay eight, as I am further ahead the next day. Just wondered how you are set up, and why you would agree with seven, or disagree.>>>

Depending on the type of work , the height and access of the building Hot is different than shingle work. Tile and wood are also different. So depending on the size using a flat deck as an sample if the job is a small 50 sq we will have 4 to 5 on the roof deck 2 on the ground, a shingle roof same size 4 tear off 2 ground then 2 to shinglers, tile 4 on the deck 2 on the ground 3 to 4 tile setters.Most of our work is commercial flat work and the majority is BUR, exception we just finished a 60 sq TPO using 5 men.We have trained all of the crews that work for us to be a interchangeable person, each one can do a multiple of roofing tasks, except for the ground labors their job is to move materials and keep the area clean.>>>

i use to labor for guy i work for now. there was 3 of us 2 roofers 1 laborer which was me. we knocked out 3 roofs a eek in late summer 100 degree or more. for 2 months. 40 sp. or more. so i know about that sweating deal. 3 works.>>>

7 would be awesome, but that would be a 4 man tear off crew and a dedicated 2-3 man nailing team with a couple of in betweener, shingle flipper/tear off grunts...we have ran this mode and made a killing...it's all about who you can trust and having people that don't seek any opportunity to slack off, I don't care how many are out, pay is flat rate and as long as they all have fun and everyone can make some dough everything rocks.

Roof on!!! [url] www.vuetoviewroofs.com[/url]>>>

.........you got me thinkin'.....i'm headin' out to the yard and make sure I got "modern equipment"... :laugh:>>>

this is my first post here just joined. iv been roofing 41 years now iv tried it all . what is working rally well is 4-6 roofers. using modern epq, just purchesed the rapid roof remover.cant be used on steep roofs but will cut time and labor on walkable roofs. we use the roofers buggy which replaces 2 men. cant depend on to many so called roofers here. thay got to many excuses why thay cant work today. but i do have 6 vary good roofers plus modern epq. to take up the slack. :cheer:>>>

In my area home owners are led to believe that quarter size hail damage on roofs need to be replaced ASAP and those roofs need to be done in a day with a large crew of immigrants of course. By the time the smart home owners want new roofs they've seen almost every 30-50sq roof around them done in a day.

Up until three years ago did most roofs with just one or two grunts even tear offs. Starting in mid 06 stopped doing new roofs and started doing insurance work. For the second half of 06 ran with 4-6 on most jobs but as many as 8-9 on large jobs. In 07 hired my father on full time which was the best decision possible. With 38 years roofing experiance he's my number one go to guy with complicated situations. Since his heart attack two months ago he's getting back to were he was before it which was the hardest working, best quality, and fastest on the crew, 53 years old. On half the jobs my younger brother works for me. He's got his own roofing company so you only have to tell him the detailed job specs. Last year had my Uncle on most jobs, he's been roofing for about 25 years. Had part time help with my two cousins with a combined 75 years of roofing experiance. My other Uncle works a little for me too with about 30 years experiance.

It would be safe to say I don't have to search very long to find a large crew of highly trained roofing pro's.

Last year we couldn't keep up with the demand from all the storm work so we ran with a crew averaging 6-9. I like one laborer per installer and they stay dedicated to that person from start to finish, sort of a gopher. When there were days that would allow me to work with the crew would take the best laborer for me!

Last year did a lot of roofs with the one crew and the best week we did 5 tear offs in 6 days, one was 55 squares, the rest were 30-40 squares. As far as the best time start to finish would have been when 8 of us showed up at a 25sq house at 4 pm as we'd just finished one prior to that. By 8 pm we were done. The house was one story, one layer, 4/12 two sides. No skylights or chimneys. It was stripped and dried in 2.5 hours and with four installers put down the 25 squares in about an hour in a half.

This year I've downsized a little and have worked on about half the roofs from start to finish. Now the crew averages 5-7.

The home owners always have good things to say about my crew and really like it when they see the owner up there.

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:laugh:>>>

Egg, is that roofers or sled dogs that you discuss astrophysics with? Most of the roofers I know don't get beyond ass-ho physics.>>>

Job chemistry is very important; more important than crew size. Extra laborers from time to time can keep the aces from wearing out early in the week. You don't want the key people getting run down. You want the laborers to have and keep their own self-respect and pride. Robby was weaned the way I was. There's not much difference, or shouldn't be, between a roofer and a sled dog. We bad. Of course, sometimes it helps to take a few extra minutes at break time to discuss astrophysics. Seriously. (to the best of our abilities of course)>>>

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said: I wonder how much extra or less profit here might be on a job where you have seven guys? Sure the big plus would be getting the roofs done quicker.

We used to pay job and knock too ( finish the job and knock off for the day) which gives guys an incentive to get on with it, but found that quality fell, it got so they were cutting corners and doing sloppy work. That was 13 years ago with 3 fully qualified tradesmen and an Apprentice working together doing BUR tearoff and back with 2 layer torchon.

To be honest we found production was higher as well as profit if we kept the crews to just two people, especially if they had been working together for a few years, split them up and do two jobs at once seemed to work for us better.

I feel more comfortable now with just myself and one or two helpers, and no call backs.

Depends on job and duties .... but in theory you make more money working two jobs with 3 people on each than workin gone job with 6 roofers - but it totally depends on factors including but limited to weather - job type (coatings and repairs and great 2-3 man crew size whereas a 40 square flat tear and two layer insul - 1st mech. attached and second set in hot and hotted base - works best with 6 man crew two days then go to 3 or 4 guys to layup with modified) ......

also depends on travel to job and how many jobs you have running in the area and as mentioned the weather - oh the weather ....

:cheer:>>>

Too big or inexperienced of a crew spells disaster for tile. The only time more is when losding tile or tearing off. Other than that, 2 or 3 is all you want.>>>

Roof Doctors USA Said: We use a fairly complex algorithm to determine crew size. Over the years, we tracked productivity on different types of roofs under various conditions. So, we guess (fairly accurately) how fatigue will effect the productive of a man based on factors such as pitch, elevation, heat and humidity. With this information, we prepare our estimate and then assemble the crew to reflect the needs of each project. It sounds more complicated then it actually is. Its set up in an Excel spreadsheet and I enter the size of the job, and the spreadsheet will calculate the man hours needed to complete the job and then the estimator will enter the crew size and the program will determine the number of days and labor cost to complete the project. For example, during the summer (here in South Florida) we realistically estimate that an average laborer can tear off, repair the decking and dry in 3.5 Sqr. of Tile roof in a workday (regardless of weather we work 5 hours or 8 hours per day). That number is adjusted up to about 5.5 Sqr. per day in the spring and fall and goes to 6.5 Sqr. per day in the winter.

That's taking it up or notch or two, congrats.>>>

We use a fairly complex algorithm to determine crew size. Over the years, we tracked productivity on different types of roofs under various conditions. So, we guess (fairly accurately) how fatigue will effect the productive of a man based on factors such as pitch, elevation, heat and humidity. With this information, we prepare our estimate and then assemble the crew to reflect the needs of each project. It sounds more complicated then it actually is. It's set up in an Excel spreadsheet and I enter the size of the job, and the spreadsheet will calculate the man hours needed to complete the job and then the estimator will enter the crew size and the program will determine the number of days and labor cost to complete the project. For example, during the summer (here in South Florida) we realistically estimate that an average laborer can tear off, repair the decking and dry in 3.5 Sqr. of Tile roof in a workday (regardless of weather we work 5 hours or 8 hours per day). That number is adjusted up to about 5.5 Sqr. per day in the spring and fall and goes to 6.5 Sqr. per day in the winter.>>>

Totally depends on job ..... Of course you guys are talking shingles here ....

Most "hot jobs" which are rarer today than ever worked best with 6 men .... patch crews 2-3 men and EPDM / TPO and Torch-On works good with 4 guys ..... but then again it depends and job .... We recently complete a flat / flashing restoration job with cold products and only used 2 guys as we thought that was the most efficient crew for the job / size and it worked well and we made a nice profit on the project ....

To make a blanket statement that 7 men is ideal would not be my idea ....

As for working 6 and paying 8 .... i'm all about production and efficiency and rewarding those for their efforts - but you have to be careful and watchful - every day habit NO - but I'm not against and in fact reward our crews from time to time ....

B)>>>

To warrant a Seven man crew I'd be looking at nothing less than four or five hundred sq, or separate buildings on the same site. We just finished a 360 sq of flat work combined with a couple hundred sq of shingle rip an' roof using a crew of six......most days........ Robert passed us by on the highway if I remember right. And yeah what egg said regarding sweat.....if you need to piss then you ain't working hard enough.>>>