(OT) Maybe sort of a kinda

wrap-up. Time marches on. Days turn to weeks, months, years, and decades and suddenly you are seventy. Politics and social issues have always been rife with the potential for bad feeling and so it is wise to avoid as much of that as possible. But after years of hearing derogatory comments about Kalifornia, "socialism," nanny states, & etc. my very much esteemed colleague Mike Hicks cast some doubts awhile back about the ultimate value of "progressive." After mulling this over ever since then I have to state that any life lived without a mind for progress and a concerted effort to be progressive is not a life I have any interest in living.

Much of the current political unrest seems to revolve around the issue of abortion. SCOTUS, Roe v Wade, planned parenthood, "right to life," so-called "fundamentalist Christianity, etc. I am reminded of a slogan that not too long ago was being used to fit a multitude of issues, that being the famous Nature or Nurture.

So let's talk about Nature and leave Nurture out of it then. No matter what the Supreme Court does, no matter what anybody says or doesn't say about anything at all, a significant number of intelligent, self-respecting women faced with an unwanted pregnancy are going to get abortions. There is nothing anyone can now or will ever be able to do about that. Period. Underscored. Exclamation point. Game over.

If a certain number of women end up with a perforated uterus because of poor access to quality care, it's been like that in the past and it would be like that in the future. No "nurturing" sanctimonious counseling or legislative action or coercion or police action is ever going to prevent it. Never. Once again: Game Over. Those women most likely to give birth to future wards of the state will continue and even increase giving birth to future wards of the state.

Roe v Wade and Planned Parenthood are not even topics worth debating.

So much for Pence. As for his current boss, in my opinion what we are witnessing is the most ignorant, fat, rich, dishonest, lascivious, and loathsome creature ever to occupy the White House. Not since the height of the Viet Nam war have I been this ashamed to be a part of this country. It hurts my heart beyond words. I have never, not even during Nixon's Watergate or Clinton's Lewinsky horse$hit, been so daily assaulted, so intellectually violated, or so deeply deeply ashamed.

I'm done talking.

As usual - Beautifully put egg.....

Tom is right, of course. In my youth as I was first gaining traction in this trade I used to summarize things for myself very simply. At that time in the depressed market I was in I could go out each and every day, strap on my tools, and put four nails in each shingle at four cents a nail, take my money, go to the store and buy milk and bread, and inch my way forward in the world. This base level of existence grounded me and kept my head from grappling with demons hatched by an over-active intellect.

Do no harm. Do no harm. Take delight in the early morning sun, the slanting light of the afternoon, the blessing of sleeping well that goes with physical exertion, giving a penny's value for every penny earned. Helping your neighbor. Taking responsibility for your own life and the well-being of your children.

That's where I started and I sincerely hope that where I end up is not too monstrously far from that.

It's only as complicated as we make it - and we're becoming more & more capable of ever-complicating it, (life)..... Who used to sign their posts with "Life's too short to play with your food"? ....bout sums it up....

With all the positioning here, the ultimate question. What is the purpose of life? What are our lives about?

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

PC, I assure you that men need no such approval. Let's assume for a moment that in our society the ability to choose your own destiny is equal for men and women even though it has been a hell of a struggle for women to achieve anything close to that. Sexism is as deeply entrained as racism, maybe deeper because it's often blended and hidden. I was asked once how the members of my high school graduating class had fared and I was busy rattling off a list of names and achievements when my wife tapped me on the shoulder and said, "You haven't mentioned one single girl." We had more stellar girl graduates than boys and many of them did great things, including giving birth to great kids, including raising them, and often including full-blown careers at the same time. That generally puts considerable pressure on baby-sitters (universally girls) and grandparents (mostly grandmothers) but they did it. There are many roads to laziness and men are pretty good at finding and traveling them. "Don't bother me; I have to work." is a good one and I have used it a million times myself. Sometimes I was in the right. Probably most times. Other times I guarantee you: not so much. Men usually have big egos because they are fragile. Fragile egos have to be big to keep from breaking at the slightest insult. I have witnessed unfathomable strength from women (and men) who don't have big egos and I try to model myself after those people. Give me a small ego and unfathomable strength any day. Salt of the earth. Humble. Potent.

"What I noticed as a kid is that the minute grownups take a long hard look at love and respect, the whole discussion broadens"

That is a valid point egg. Love and respect have a solid foundation in the idea of ...right or wrong. There are rules for right and wrong. Those rules bring us to the concept of a rational, moral , loving and caring society. The Abortion issue can be summed up in that question, is it Right? or Wrong?

B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

"... a good society cannot and will not survive if it says immoral things are moral. Fact. "

I like that Chuck and I couldn't agree with you more. The problem for me gets difficult when people presume to tell me what is and isn't moral. Definitions of morality have been shown to be quite variable and quite slippery. At one time slavery and lynching were deemed moral. In the first three hundred years AD there was quite a furor of disagreement over the Father, the Son, and The Holy Ghost. It was agreed that God was God, of course, and that Jesus was God, as immortal son, and the Holy Spirit was also God. For some there had to be a distinction between God the Father and God the Son because it would be immoral for God to hang himself on the cross. God doesn't die in any way shape or form and suicide is immoral. Are all forms of "suicide" immoral?

God does not die, therefore that part of us which does is not the part made in God's image. A set of blueprints is not a house. A zygote is a set of blueprints, not a person. Fact. What makes a person a person? A brain-dead body on total life support was once a person. A corpse was once a person. What makes a person a person, and not a monster, is love and respect. Without those two the whole discussion is moot, dog-eat-dog, and utterly worthless.

What I noticed as a kid is that the minute grownups take a long hard look at love and respect, the whole discussion broadens. Sometimes there are tough moral decisions that have to be made. We have our special place, but left unchecked, the human race will choke the life out of a planet which taken as a whole is made much much more like to God's image than are we alone. Birth control on a global scale is imperative. If we don't want to become like rats, lemmings, locusts, or the bubonic plague, we need to practice some animal husbandry on ourselves. Fire next time, remember? If we want human life to be deemed sacred, let's make sure we take care of the blessing that were bestowed on us.

As for the morality of abortion. It is not. To answer egg on this issue. Society can be good. It can even survive people doing immoral things. That established a good society cannot and will not survive if it says immoral things are moral. Fact. B) :) :) B) Deep Down In Florida Where The Sun Shines Damn Near Every Day

TomB Said: Thanks for the post CIAK.....Evan Sayet put it very clearly & honestly.

I know you're angry and offended that you were governed by a black man but the country fared well during his presidency. the facts speak for themselves.Obama found the country in shambles, in near total Bankruptcy and left it in good shape.Dow was 6500 when he took over , unemployment 10%,when he left dow was 19000 and unemployment 4.7% .http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/ Trump has already spent most of his political capital on nothing and 6 months into his presidency is already a lame duck president.

I know you're angry and offended that you were governed by a black man but the country fared well during his presidency. the facts speak for themselves.Obama found the country in shambles, in near total Bankruptcy and left it in good shape.Dow was 6500 when he took over , unemployment 10%,when he left dow was 19000 and unemployment 4.7% .http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/marchapril-2012/obamas-top-50-accomplishments/ Trump has already spent most of his political capital on nothing and 6 months into his presidency is already a lame duck president.

As we cease and desist this political OT discussion which was meant just to pass time and not to bring out the racism, hatred and bigotry in some people ,i'd say it's all good.4 years will go by fast .the stupidity will run its course and the people will come to their senses the next time around.

Thanks for the post CIAK.....Evan Sayet put it very clearly & honestly.

This tirade against president Obama , a man of honor ,class and dignity who was subjected to a lot more abuse than any other US president because of the color of his skin(the birther movement y'all) and which he handled with class and dignity without stooping to the ignorant,racist level of his attackers, reminds me of the words of LBj:""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

Chuck, since as you well know it's a close-knit group of people here who speak their own minds (no matter how different the conclusions we sometimes draw,) it would be better to either put your ideas in your own words or just post a link. We all know how to click on a link, we do it all the time, we surf all ends of the political dialogue every week, have magazines and libraries at our command, etc.

I have to laugh at the comparison of D. Trump to General Patton because there really isn't any. Well, that's not quite true. They both loved publicity, they were both erratic with it, both were driven. Patton was substantially smarter and he was a brilliant, ball-busting, warrior which we need sometimes don't we, but his behavior eventually got him relieved of command of the 3rd Army. Maybe that's the thing that the two of them will end up sharing in common; being relieved of command. We'll see, but General Patton Trump certainly aint.

Lastly, I'm both a liberal and a conservative; and I couldn't have it any other way because I need a balanced comprehension of the world, of life. I take it as an insult when someone makes a statement like "We know that Liberals (left) are idiots..." especially when it comes from someone who isn't enough smarter than me to make it stick. If you know what I mean. Or even if you don't.