OLD POST REVISITED - LINE SNAPPING!

I have saved some old topics I thought were fun - here is a nice debate!

REPLIES:

COPPERMAN- My motto is you wouldn't hire a cabinet maker that didn't use a square or level because you expect him to do perfect work. I am also a paid pro so I will always use lines to keep it perfect.

OLD SCHOOL- I use a tape measure and I always snap lines.

TINNER- I at least get reference marks somewhere.

TRG- I use a tape measure and I always snap lines.

LANNY- I have roofed for 39 years. I have never snapped a line nor have I ever worked with anyone who had. I worked for 10 different roofing colors in my early years and never once saw anyone snap a line. I started out with a comp ax with a gauge on it. Now the guns have gauges. Why do I need lines?

SEEN-IT-ALL- Must be a West Coast things as I hard ever use one either. With all the rain-mist-dew how would the chalk ever stay on the paper?

ROOFSCAPE- I've had the same chalk lines for about 11 years and never once refilled it! Keep a plastic orange one for carpentry and vinyl and that's it. For years I never chalked a line unless it was a looooong eave or a really tall rake. Even then, I would pop my two on the rake and one on the second row of the eave. I was taught well. I'm good at what I do. Not all my roofs are flawless. But you would never look at one and say "he should have chalked a line". You might spot something else, but that won't be it! I never once used a chalk on a hip roof. I'm referring to shingle only btw. You do it enough, you get that. That head tilting, head swaying, flawless beam of perfection. Beats a chalk any day. Oh and I've never in my life seen one roofer pop lines ever row like they show on Bob Villa and other home improvement shows. That's totally ridiculous! If I had an employee do that, I would send him home.

CIAK- We would run the felt paper straight and follow the lines on the felt.

JED- I use a tape measure and I always snap lines. Never met a shingler yet capable of doing a decent job without lines. Heard all the talk though. When the eaves runs out and they hit those extra inches at the ridge.

OLD N BROKEN- Well then Jed, you should come up to Idaho and I'll introduce myself to ya. I'll take you around the lakes and show you my work, of which a chalkline was RARELY used.

OLD SCHOOL- IF you can run the shingles straight and true, (no more than 1/8 of an inch variation up or down) on the length of the roof, and they are also parallel to the ridge in the same manner when you reach it, and there are no extra rows of shingles ever, and if you are using 3-1’s and the cutouts always line up straight and you catch the layout over the dormers, AND you can do all of those things WITHOUT lines, you are a better roofer than I. If you cannot, then strike the damn lines and stop lying to us. Every 4 or 6 courses is plenty as a reference. Would you want to use a carpenter that didn't strike lines to layout the building? Would you use a concrete man that didn't use a line or a laser to set a grade? Give me a break!

ROOFS R US- Unless the run is really a very long line where you might have one half to a full inch of difference at the started course and hen the second course was out of whack-then you would need to chalk a line at the bottom of the second course of shingles. To also keep it straight as you roof several courses- measure from the ridge down to your shingle course. You do this all the way across and then you can determine where and how far up or down you are. Thus, you can then prepare to run your lines to keep the courses straight. But there are some houses where because of circumstances and size you do not have to chalk so many lines. It is also very good to chalk lines when you are starting to shingle up in your valley and want a measured and chalked set-over into the valley for proper coverage. The chalk line can be a very valuable tool if you know how to properly chalk those lines up and down.

OLD SCHOOL- That is my point! We are some of the very few roofers in this town that strike lines. I have seen some nice jobs done without them, and at the same time, I have seen some awful messes. Courses of shingles that vary an inch or so, 3 and 4, extra courses that start from nothing along the ridge, short courses and long courses, for crying out loud. I was on a slate repair last week and it was mostly done very well. On one side however, the courses varied from 6 all the way up to 9 inch exposure! Now tell me, how could they do that? It is important for me to know exactly where the roof is out of square and how much BEFORE I ever lay a shingle. The only way to do that is to measure and strike lines. That is my opinion and that is how I roll.

MISCREANT- I know a few guys that can put them on pretty straight with no lines, a bit of a wave, but more or less straight enough to get paid. Some of the problems with not snapping lines is that: 1) They won't be as straight, a roof that has shingles installed laser straight when you compare it to an unlined roof. 2) You can have less experienced roofers installing shingles in a very satisfactory manner. I don't want to pay a guy to install a couple of hundred crooked roofs while he figures out how to install them straight with no lines. 30 No matter who you are, you can install shingles faster with lines snapped. That converts into more money to you.

EGG- I remember when I was too fast to be bothered with snapping lines except on valleys, hips, and transferring patterns through intersecting obstacles. I preferred working alone on my own pieces and it is fair to say that snapping lines by yourself is a bit of a hindrance. If you are going to paceset or work with others, it's a bit more problematic. The rookie will inevitably let the shingle slip under his gage every now and then and fail to notice it until too late. Everybody gages a tad differently and twenty whiskers makes a bunch.

It's hard to find someone willing to hold the stupid end. I always snap the first two courses now and verify the framing accuracy. I always take a reading and snap a line whenever anything starts moving. Laser straight does in fact. I have to admit it. And that's after decades behind my belt without snapping very many lines. I will never snap every course. The day I am required to do that is the day that I quit.

MYWOODY- The test is very simple. All of you guys, the next time you're confident by eye that something is perfectly straight, check it with a chalk line. Only then will you be ready to discuss whether or not you have the eye.

OLD SCHOOL- Every 4-6 courses is plenty! I was working with a bunch of volunteers on a church roof once that we struck lines for every course. 20 "helpers" on the roof and not one was a roofer, but they all wanted to help. The lines worked wonders. With laminates, at least you guys don't have to line up the cutouts. That is where the lines are really important. In the West Coast however, I don't think they line them up. Different strokes!

GAK-I snap a line when I need to. On 3 tabs usually one to get started. Another one when going around a chimney or dormer. Usually snap the valleys and sometimes the hips. I encourage my crew to snap lines. I don't want them getting through their learning curve on my jobs.

ROBERT- I'm a line popping crazy man.

While I did very few shingle roofs in my day, I never did a one that had perfect framing. I always found the true center and snapped lines for every 4th course, compensating for "lack of square", and always made that crooked roof look like it was built with a level and a plumb bob.

Screw dimensional shingles... that was an idea for lazy and SOB roofers. I'll take my three-tabs or other straight-line-critical shingles over dimensionals any day.

I use G-Tape.

See, I was right then and I am still right now. I don't even do very many shingles anymore, but when I do, I strike lines. Every 4 courses in the field, and to set the ridges and cut the valleys. It is professional.