Mansard Problems

I'm surprised at the other contractor. Very good reputation, demands the highest price for his work always. Unfortunately, we've had our crew screw us over when we weren't looking a decade ago, so I will retain my respect his firm even after this.

Lefty: I strongly agree with your comment in the other thread that T&M rewards inefficiency. I'm proud to say that's not our style.

clvr83 Said: natty: Im not saying the word lawsuit to these folks. I told them it was incorrect, but I was wondering if they would go that route.

I manually sealed every shingle on my last mansard, Ive been sleeping great since.

People who own properties like this don't really care about quality- they care about collecting rents, getting tax breaks, and going cheap. Asphalt shingles on vertical surfaces is really going cheap. Technically, I think there is a difference between a mansard roof and a vertical wall. Vertical walls need siding, not shingles. That said, as long as supposed professionals keep doing crappy work and continue to get away with it, sooner than later, crappy work is all that is going to be out there.

If they hear the hourly rate I use they would not give me the work. When they see a total price, I can sell the value of the work and the savings they will recieve.

We are re-nailing them all.

I don't do many T&M jobs. This is a valued client with a LOT of property and I feel this is the only fair way for both of us. This job isn't risky weather-wise, and doesn't require much talent(arguable.) I'd rather make a fair profit than shoot them a number that they think is too high. Me and Dad's estimates of a timeline were way different.

I'd imagine you have an hourly rate that you'd be happy to have your guys working at every hour they clock? That's how I look at it when I bid T&M, but I realize I'm missing out on those days that exceed expectations.

Are you renailing all the shingles or just the ones that are falling?

Either way I would figure a price to do it. Instead of a time and material. Time and material I lose money. Time and material does not pay me for my talents. Once the price is set there is no aurgument about the cost.

We have lots of mansard's around us. I nail them just like 3 tabs. 2 sets of double nails in the field and singles on the ends. More if the feeling strikes me to do it. Never had a problem with them sealing.

Yes, Dutch method.

twill59 Said: Howd they seal that downspout going through the roof?

Must be the old Dutch "goopenhope" method.

There is a very tight window on the laminated shingles to make sure you get both the sawtooth and the laminate. If you don't get both, they will definitely slide loose like that. It is a problem of not nailing where they were supposed to. If you can get up there an renail everything and seal it, it may work, but there are a lot of them that are missing and when you replace shingles, they are always going to look blotchy. too bad.

natty: I'm not saying the word lawsuit to these folks. I told them it was incorrect, but I was wondering if they would go that route.

I manually sealed every shingle on my last mansard, I've been sleeping great since.

clvr83 Said: I have a client who I picked up a couple of years ago. They had this mansard re-roofed in 2009. Its about 160 squares, from the most expensive crew around. I really have respect for the owner, but they messed this one up.

You'd be best served if you hand nail it. The nails need to be driven tight and flush. Even looking flush, but not tight won't work. With a hammer, you can seat them perfectly. We have buildings all around here and all losing shingles. Mine are still in place, though a few have melted sealants streaking the roofs.

One of mine 16-18 years old.

Right on.

The nailing on this one was CLOSE to the line, but close obviously isn't good enough. Them bottoms just keep slipping. I can't recall, but I think they are six nailed. We will be using a nail gun though, my guys don't like it when I mention taking them away for anything more than a repair. :laugh:

seen-it-all - I was just telling a group of people how roofing is deceptive like that. It's easy to put one on that looks good and doesn't leak for a few years, but 10 years+ is where you (edit: start to) separate the roofers from the wannabe's.

Roof dude pretty well nailed it on all counts. This one is a good example how hand nailing would have probably prevented the current problems. When dealing with a near vertical slope you need the nail to catch both sections of the lamination on the nail line (I don't think the nail zone shingles would work here) as well as not being driven too deep. Hard to achieve with an air driven tool on a consistent basis when dealing with temperature variations. Have done a few with no problems. Have also seen many and the song "Slip Sliding Away" comes to mind.

Reminds me of the big dog roofing company that made the paper a few years back with a picture of them roofing the many steeples on a large church. A few years later big dog was gone and the laminates from the steeples were falling on the peoples as they walked by on the sunny hot days. The church was barricaded off for a few years while they raised money to install wood shakes.

Every one I've seen like this.... wasn't nailed worth a damn. Can't say I've done one that was completely vertical though.

Most of em I've ever encountered, had a slight pitch to em. While, I normally 6 nail shingles on a pitched roof, I would put even more in something like this. If I remember right, the last mansard I put shingles on, we put minimum 8 nails/shingle.

I think temp matters in a situation like this too. Definitely want to hit the sweet spot of temps/uv rays when installing. Over or under driven nails will wreak havoc on a mansard installation imo.

I would be willing to bet, without seeing this in person, that the fasteners are lacking in numbers, placement, & correct seating.