Lots of " Are you hiring ? " calls

Just what is the reason for your disbelief ciak, apart from all the rhetoric surrounding the business......whatever that means... Jed With all the law suites being waged against the insurance company's frivolous most of them . Perhaps rhetoric wasn't the proper usage . I'm obviously not an English major and I appreciate the corrections. This industry is very aware of the attacks on it. That is one of the reasons it is not , what is for the most part leveled against it>>>

JET I now know why you say the things you do and have this visceral bile dribbling out of the corner of your mouth with the very mention of Insurance Company's . I'm going to take a risk here and make an assumption. Oh here it comes............ With your Florida State Licences being registered ( if that is the right verbiage ) I'll leave it up to the word police , in 2002 and your proclamations of having been a major roofing contractor for " i dunno " 26 yrs in Florida hmmmm. I only bring this up for a reason. Not that I really care if you have been CCC for 7 or 27 yrs. I don't. What I do question and the reason for the comments on the CCC is when did you have time to be " trained " as a company adjuster ????? ;) The worst adjuster is the rookie ." BIG MISTAKE!" who lack the fundamental information and adjusting skills to keep it a level playing field .

Whew , I guess I keep inableing with the light of truth. I have done a little investigation on the triage I heard in conversation. It was concerning inside adjusters and outside adjusters. Nothing at all to do with Triage Management Srevices. I will put this through the neseccary levels to get to the truth about this. As presented sounds predatorial . I don't know if i would go so far as to say Illeagle . I'll investigate it more closely.>>>

CIAK Said: I just cant believe the insurance company , with all the rhetoric surrounding the business would allow anything at all to come close to the Skyscrapers If you ever have worked on the inside you would understand all the security measures that go on. Layer after layer .

That's a given. The inference is that Triage Management Services Inc is exposing themselves to liability with not only the IRS but the way they are characterizing the relationship they have with insurance carriers.

.>>>

Chucky, now you're hurting my feelings :P :P Do I insult you?.......no. I merely bring to light how full of crap you are, that's all. Having been both a company trained adjuster and a contractor I KNOW both sides. You're just a wannabe storm chaser adjuster that couldn't make it in the real world. Don't be hard on yourself, Momma's just glad you're out from under her feet for days at a time ;) ;) I don't know why you keep stirring the pot on this subject as it's not very popular with the crowd here. Try some sermons or something positive instead. I know you still have a few in your back pocket.......let the brother preach!! :woohoo: :woohoo:

JET>>>

I just can't believe the insurance company , with all the rhetoric surrounding the business would allow anything at all to come close to the " Skyscrapers " If you ever have worked on the inside you would understand all the security measures that go on. Layer after layer . Not a chance someone would get through with crap that's thrown at them. An example is JET. He is so blinded by his anger as witnessed by the visceral remarks and venom he spews and spits . Any opportunity no matter how squed and demented or small , Jet sees it as a crack to attack. It is just this sort of total insanity that has caused the firewalls and a lot of the problems between the two entities + the homeowners. The more the disconnect the more the protection and isolation between the contracting community and homeowners. The more the disconnect the greater the possibility of losing work because their are opportunist in triage and stormier etc. To continue down this path will only result in more paranoia lost work. This is part of why I'm creating this dialoge>>>

I've also wondered whether the whole storm chasing industry wouldn't fall under the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act).

It was created to fight the mob, but look at how well it fits for the storm business(From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICO the bold highlights are mine:

Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and/or sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity." RICO also permits a private individual harmed by the actions of such an enterprise to file a civil suit; if successful, the individual can collect treble damages.

When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, he or she has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond. This provision was placed in the law because the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations often absconded with the assets. An injunction and/or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.

In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court, as it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.[2]

There is also a provision for private parties to sue. A "person damaged in his business or property" can sue one or more "racketeers." The plaintiff must prove the existence of a "criminal enterprise." The defendant(s) are not the enterprise; in other words, the defendant(s) and the enterprise are not one and the same. There must be one of four specified relationships between the defendant(s) and the enterprise. A civil RICO action, like many lawsuits based on federal law, can be filed in state or federal court. [1]

Both the federal and civil components allow for the recovery of treble damages (damages in triple the amount of actual/compensatory damages).

Although its primary intent was to deal with organized crime, Blakey said that Congress never intended it to merely apply to the Mob. He once told Time, "We don't want one set of rules for people whose collars are blue or whose names end in vowels, and another set for those whose collars are white and have Ivy League diplomas."

This thing may have legs.

Here's a more in depth link if you got a lot of time:

http://www.ricoact.com/ricoact/nutshell.asp#defendant>>>

Triage Management Services Inc seems to be more than a middleman, they are a layer between the middleman and the carrier. It appears they charge way too much for how little they do or put another way they add way too much to the cost of a claim without providing value.

At the very least they are creating liability for the insurance company and themselves. Looking at the way they operate also puts into question the relationship they have to their contractors. Too much training and direction. The IRS would probably consider them employees. When somebody gets hurt or doesn't pay theirs taxes, a frequent occurrence in our business, the light is gonna shine pretty bright on these guys.

What happens when the supply house liens a couple of hundred houses because one of their contractors doesn't pay their material bill, which happens a lot with storm chasers especially ones that are making less than before? Well my guess is Triage has crated a liability trail right up to the front door of the insurance companies' skyscrapers.

>>>

Minn I will check into the triage business it very interesting . I may have heard about them in a passing conversation. I know nothing about them As far as middle men go I work for one directly .>>>

I did it from memory . I just tried to sound it out I forgot it was two words and the egoo. Jed thanks for keeping my spelling bee up to date

"psylo shyegoo" means:

"Gooey, sly shop." or "Oops! Shyly. Ego."

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:>>>

Chucky.......stop the insults, it only defines who (and what) you really are. I don't insult you personally although I could because you've given more than enough proof here of what (and who) you are. As long as you remain an insurance lap dog you'll get no sympathy (or empathy) from me or the majority of others here. Just give straight answers when asked and if you're not asked, don't post, simple as that. BTW, learn the phuck to SPELL, would 'ya? WTF is "psyloshy"?......a drunk moment in mind only? :P :P

JET>>>

minnesotaroofin Said: Ciak, Do you ever have to hunt down work or do you just sit around and wait for someone to call you?

How would you feel if you had to go do adjustments on say 5 properties then submit them then wait to see if you will get paid for your time. Then say you get paid for 2 of them. Then you get those adjustments and someone comes along and says man I could give you a way better deal and knock 500 off the top for your deductible so then you have to tell your company hey I cannot do that cause it is illegal they say everyone else does it.

Not to mention the 5 properties if door knocking you have to hit at least 20 or better to get 1 good lead then multiply that by 5 = 100 properties to get 5 good leads.

Or we can pay $3500.00 per month for an ad in the pages 1 book out of 3 locals -- then we could run in the papers another $2000.00 a month -- Peddlers licenses -- Phone bills -- Internet etc... I have no problem marketing this way but it is hard when the chasers don't pay any of the above bills or just enough until the storm is gone they are too - I have done it all Best chance is referral work that is why I ask you who better to ask after all the experience you have I am still waiting for some advice other than get off my butt.

Any type of insight would be appreciated. What is it you adjusters find in common with the chasers? Can I follow adjusters around? Can I ask them I will for free help you set ladders measure etc..? Which companies are willing to work with local contractors or preferred? How do I get in some of these contractors have only had a license 6months and they are in. Think it would be a good idea to get an adjusters license myself? If I did would insurance companies or adjusters recognize this and accept my diagram, Pictures,Estimate on the spot? If so I know 1 or 2 that will so which companies are easier? Is it illegal for independent agent to refer their customers to a contractor? And again drop some names on me or send me an email.

Some of the things that are ireful are door knocking - yellow page ads - paper ads - Internet etc I do enough of this already -

As it is now I don't hunt down work. When I'm out on a storm or another event typically I will get a call asking if I'm available to work etc. My common response is " I'm not available at the moment . However if you can wait I should be able to get to your project ....... Can you wait? The usual response Yes I will wait . Please call when you have a good idea when you can start. So it goes. If you get the homeowner to sign a contract and it is close to without supplements to the adjusters . It is just a matter of getting the job done. One thing to remember when dealing with the insurance company they are not the enemy . Be firm but courteous on the out come. It might be a good idea to become familiar with the estimating programs the adjusters use. The idea that the adjuster is the end all is wrong. The homeowner is the end . Get to the customer . Don't be intimidated by Idiots like jet he is so angry he cant think straight. Think and reflect on the great issue that is before us . A psyloshy of life . It clears the mind . I don't know what else to do right now too much at once ,>>>

MN.......here's how it "works" in the storm chaser trade. First there is a storm, all the insurance carriers who service that storm area either send their own adjusters (salaried people) OR they sub the adjuster duties out to independent companies. You'll see many motorhomes, Red Cross tents, etc. at various "central" storm sites. Since there is limited phone service, etc. for some time many people will go directly to the insurance company's motorhomes to get claim forms and sign up for service. Many times the insurance carrier will simply tell the claimant to "get three good estimates" and send it to their central headquarters. This is just another way to run the claimant around and buy time for the carrier. There is no guarantee that any of these three estimates will be considered as an adjuster will have the final say as to how much money will be paid, if any at all.

The roofers who chase storms for a living have a short list of adjusters they "work" with ;) ;)usually by locations. The adjuster has all the power in this deal, the ball is in their court as to the amount that will be paid. The claimant has no power whatsoever, sometimes they get more than necessary but many times they get less. It's not unusual for their coverage to be cancelled after the claim is paid. We've had customers who were with a certain carrier for over 25 years with NO prior claims. One storm claim and they were dropped. This will scare a lot of homeowners into not filing a claim at all if they're in a storm prone area such as coastal Florida, etc.

Bottom line is that it's a game and not a very "fun" game as people's lives are shook up beyond their capacity to handle it many times. I feel very sorry for anyone who has to experience this type of loss. Just look at what happened to the people in Katrina's path. The insurance carriers refused to pay storm claims saying it was "flooding" that caused the loss and the customer didn't have "flood coverage". What a license to steal. These poor people are still paying mortgages on homes that aren't even there any more :blink: :blink: The insurance company is not your friend, believe me, and you can tell by my posts on this subject that I hold anyone involved in it with the upmost contempt.

JET>>>

Jed Said: Johnny, If you laid the fella off why do you begrudge him collecting unemployment? If you call unemployment on what is largely a circumstantial allegation (he wont take my phone calls) and they act on it, then dont you think IF he returns to work you might be wishing he hadnt?

Minnesota I work for all the major Insurance company's . Can you imagine the uproar if I " CIAK " had the power to wave my hand and dispense insurance work ???????????????????? It would get ugly real fast. I congratulate you on the new work and to getting off the coach going after it. I'm not sure their aren't contractors on here that would say it insurance work I don't want to look at it because I have heard or I had a bad experience so screw it I'm not interested. I know I have read this on here and other forum's in the good times when money was flowing like a flood. As I have been trying to drive this point home . The money in the roofing industry is going to be insurance claims . Learn the game get in and keep your family and The Lovely Mrs . The resistant in understandable but it is time to get smart .>>>

The whole point of this thread at this isn't conjecture .It is get off your arse and take control of your community .>>>