Exactimate is paying for itself and more.

CIAK Said: Tom In highest regards as an objectification , praiseworthiness, respect my man . No one is asking anything more of you or for that matter anyone else . For clarity , how or what did you mean by Am I willing to throw out all morals/ethics I believe in?...ie, when in Rome-Do as the Romans ...?... could you be so kind as to elaborate. Is it in relation to the topic or just a personal statement ? Clarity is the goal. B) :) :) B)

Yes, I'm interested in hearing a little preaching too.

Tom In highest regards as an objectification , praiseworthiness," respect my man ". No one is asking anything more of you or for that matter anyone else . For clarity , how or what did you mean by " Am I willing to throw out all morals/ethics I believe in?...ie, " when in Rome-Do as the Romans "...?... could you be so kind as to elaborate. Is it in relation to the topic or just a personal statement ? Clarity is the goal. B) :) :) B)

Am I prepared for an economic downturn?....Why, yes....Am I willing to throw-out all morals/ethics I believe in? .... i.e.," When in Rome - Do as the Romans"....?....Why, no....Don't need to....But hey....That's just me....Never have gone with the herd mentallity...

Vaa Fakaosifolau Said:

jimAKAblue Said: We are also asking for profit and oh of 10 and 10.

:blink: do you mean 10% on the cost of the job? like in a total markup of 20% for both?

Crikey the minimum we get is 50% and more likely 70%, sometimes 100% for small jobs. either you must have zero overheads or you are big volume.

I wouldnt bother even going out to look at the job or waste my eyes on any plans for 10+10%

I thought slavery was abolished a couple hundred years ago :ohmy:

Thst particular 10 + 10 would be ontop of the entire job scope. I was already getting close to a fifty percent gross profit markup before the ten and ten was added.

All of these numbers are relative. If I pay myself $100 per hour, then add ten percent for overhead and ten percent for profit, I'm doing pretty good for a tradesman.

Jim Are you prepared for economic downturm . That is the thread

jimAKAblue Said: I couldnt find the recent thread where I was asking about exactimate or I would have posted this update/// in there.

Exactimate is more than paying for itself. Im building one tomorrow...a very small cottage: 12 squares of 25 year. Im filing a supplement for about $1500 more than the original estimate for my portion of the roof. We also added about 1500 inside for interior damage and repair. We added another $1000 for an insulated garage door on the workshop. We are also asking for profit and oh of 10 and 10.

Well see how much sticks. If they dont pay the oh and profit, well still be getting about 800 more on the cottage roof scope.

We supplemented another job and did better because it was a bigger roof (30 sq). The job went from 7400 to 9300 without overhead and profit. OH and Profit will push it beyond 11K. We are confident about the 9300.

Who uses XM 27 program . We should open a discussion where things are XM27 and how to use it to our advantage. I would be willing to join in and contribute . Some of what I'm seeing and hearing has a I don't have or use this program don't know how it works . Lets open it up with what XM does . Like it or not this is the future for a lot of Residential contractors.

Vaa....somewhat off-topic, (but not really), I thought I'd address you Profit & Overheard comment.... It all dempends on how a particualr party calculates p&o....There's direct costs which may or may not include what some of us call direct labor burdens, as well as gross & "net" profits. Some calculate P&O according to man-hours, whereas, most, I think, are more conventional and figure P&O based on net sales amounts.

Whatever the method; All things considered equal, (i.e., all playing fair/legal/legit), The costs are the costs; It's not rocket science.

I have always included as much "overheard" as possible, that could be calculated to direct labor cost;....i.e., WC, GL, fed & state taxes are basics....Over time, a company can reflect historically with considerable accuraccy, what other 'overhead' costs could be included into "direct Labor Burdens" category.

That being said, for a small/medium sized outfit, a 10% overheard/10% profit would be a good starting point.....I would consider 10% net profit very successful, especially in these times. I do know, on big work, the P&O is mucc slimmer....4-7% net/actual profit, if all goes well.

Of course, when it comes to mid-America residential roofing....stormers/insurance work, lack of state licensing, misrepresenting employees as subs, (1099'ing), exploiting illegal worker and all the oportunistic/unscrupulous behavior that goes on....All the above goes out the window....Which is what we're talking about here anyway....so why did I just type all this.....????

twill59 Said: Verified: The fellas round here 1099-ing their employees and doing work for a bout $220-230 a square---- YEP! They think theyve hit the jackpot w/ insurance work too! The Legit contractors @ $300 + per sq. are the ones who are feeling screwed. Especially since we are the ones paying the insurance tab!!!!

Twill in Texas thats the prices....$235 is high and you dont get jobs. I make $75 a sq with that. Up north its alot higher cause there is different materials used. We dont need I&W here. Everyone here 1099's their crews. Be hard pressed to find a residential contractor who doesnt. I have insurance and my crews do as well. Most here dont. I would love to make $300 per sq...that would be 90% profit. I am also competing with alot of 2 chucks n a truck. No licensing requirements...I wish there was.

You can say you heard it first here verified .tico I don't take offence you can't understand in real time what I was referring to when I mentioned not understanding you post. I am neither or any of the characters you portray in your post. The numbers in XM are approximately 30% higher than MSB integra. XM is a dream to operate . If any one has had cad experience it will be a snap . Insurance work is the immediate future of this business on a national scale . One thing the stormers do is keep prices high . No discounting etc to get the work . Poor workmanship is not just the stormers . I'm not defending them just a messenger.

I just spoke withan allstate adj on a claim. she told me they are switching to exatimate. There prices are so low its crazy. they say cost is $114 per sq including shingles/ tear off/ nails/ DE/ and pipe jacks. $160 is my cost $110 material and $50 labor. I need to make 30-40% for overhead (insurance, office, holding the warranty and marketing etc). I like to get 220-230 per sq. on a cash 30 year job. With the insurance deals I want more because I have to do more and wait for my money.

And tico just FYI if its werent for a sale some where along the way you wouldnt be working. I am a 2nd generation roofer who didnt ever sell until about 10-11 years ago. I didnt sell full time until 2008. I have callouses on the backs of my knuckles from shingling. the insurance is a nessasary evil when you live and roof in about 80% of the USA. Dont worry Florida is gonna get hit again. yes the bad stormers ruin it (the ones that do bad work and lie and leave). Those of us who live here have to suffer after all the work is done. As well as the homeowners. Last year we got hit bad..they all came an left. this year we are living off the repairs and a few new storms that came thru. Next year may be different. we may have to go to the hometown of some of these stormers that came here so we have work. its a vicious cycle. I am opening a new office in Wichita Falls and will move there in october after my twins are born. I will leave the midland office open. This way I wont have to chase anything hopefully the storms will come to me.

Spot-on, Tico!

Yes, storm chasers/insurance BS....It's most-definitely the dark side of the roofing biz....In more ways than one....

Spot-on, Tico!

Yes, storm chasers/insurance BS....It's most-definitely the dark side of the roofing biz....In more ways than one....

Ive been denied O & P on a job with more than three trades because there wasnt any complexity involved in the execution of the various trades. I was told that if I had to co ordinate interior and exterior trades and various subcontractors, I could get O and P. There is no hard and fast rule as far as I can tell and each company sets up their own parameters.

Yes they do. Allstate and others who use integra build in actual prices for material and labor..or low value prices and then add 29% O&P for the contractor. I wish they would all get on the same page. Ive done about 400 insurance claims in the last few years and they are NEVER the same. But as much as its a pain they do pay for enough to make alot of us a very good living. ;) So as much as I complain about them...its not that bad. :side:

Verified Said: the way I understand it O & P (GCs) is only when 3 or more trades are involved. They try to count exterior as one trade. I hate when adjusters try to just pay for r&r shingles and felt. Exactimate prices are built around using every line item. I had one tell me well we included some extra stuff to allow for stuff we left out :huh: .I mean its simple pay for exactly what is there and they all should be on the same page..instead they make it a game! using exactimate makes it alot easier. I use acculynx which works about the same way.

I've been denied O & P on a job with more than three trades because there "wasn't any complexity" involved in the execution of the various trades. I was told that if I had to co ordinate interior and exterior trades and various subcontractors, I could get O and P. There is no hard and fast rule as far as I can tell and each company sets up their own parameters.

Verified Said: the way I understand it O & P (GCs) is only when 3 or more trades are involved. They try to count exterior as one trade. I hate when adjusters try to just pay for r&r shingles and felt.

Actually, I like it when the adjusters leave out items. It changes the dialog at the closing table. Heres an example on the cottage. My original estimate was for about 4k. I immediately knew that the customer did not have that much money available for the roof based on his questions and responses. I anticipated that exact response. So, I changed the discussion to "I'm not surprised that the insurance company isn't giving you enough money to build your roof properly. I'm more than willing to build the roof for the exact amount that the insurance company is paying you, as long as I can also collect the necessary supplements to professionally install the roof. I'll use their numbers and assume all the risk for the extra payments. If they don't pay for the supplement, I'll be happy with the money that they have already agreed to pay. You risk nothing. I risk everything."

After a brief discussion about what RCV was, he pulled out the paperwork and handed it over to me. We had the deal.

Overall on two buildings, we raised the RCV from 10,200 to 18,300. I'll be involved in the second dwelling after I prove myself on the little building. That RCV, for my scope went from 2400 to 4500.

I like the "game". The adjusters set me up to be their hero when I can use my expertise to advocate for them. I know I'm going to do a great job in the field....now i have to do a great job in the office to earn some extra cash. Of course, at this point, I'm only at the requesting stage. I might not get everything I ask for but I'm using their system to ask for a whole lot more than they originally were offering.