ain't gettin it

on the classifieds theirs a co. lookin for "roofin crews".their criteria would be you need to be liscensed in IL. and be able to pull the permits. now,this is my redneck thankin/theeree,i gots me some fellers,and I got me liesints,and can pull the permitin out the donkeys but. wouldn't it make better sents to hire sales folks to sell? i'll bet they got city slickin roofers knockin their door down cause you'd have to be pretty dumb to go backwards.

Stephen, you are right on target. There is a half a day's worth of bitchin' about Mr MI Sleazeball. Fortunately for me, I nipped the problem in it's infancy stages and cleared out before I got my ass handed to me by the suppliers and IRS. Of course, I would have a significant legal case but we all know that the only winners would be the lawyers.

I am grateful that he introduced me to the world of "roofing contractor". It opened my eyes to the significant opportunity that is currently present in the storm chasing world. I know it's not going to last but in the near future, I'm going to do what I can.

Texas doesn't have any licensing or builder registration. They let the builder registration "sunset" a year ago, so it's "buyer beware". That's okay with me though because I don't ever really feel like I'm competing against anyone when I'm sitting with a customer. If they deal with me, I'll give them a fair shake and honor my warranty.

I do agree on the point about licensing if it's just a simple $100 registration fee. If we focus our discussion on MI licensing, then your argument wouldn't necessarily be as strong. In MI, they are using the licensing fees as revenue producers. They used to license the individual and one license would be enough to allow a business to operate. Now, they changed it and they require every officer to hold a license. A lone ranger like yourself would have to have a personal license and then a LLC license if you did your business as a LLC or Corp. That, in itself, is still not a deal breaker, but I feel better just complaining about it LOL.

I'm copying and posting that comment about associations into that thread. It's good stuff.

And finally....congrats to you for keeping up your health regime. It's been very hot here, and I love it and instead of running around all day, I've been sitting out on the patio, sans clothes, enjoying the afternoon as I worked on some organizational stuff. The cable guys just came by, pulling wire, and I had to run and get some shorts because I'm modest!

blue, I imagine there is a considerably interesting story about that guy from michigan you ain't telling!

you might remember that when you first went into the roofing business I told you you would know WAAAAAAAY more a year later than you thought you knew then??????? the sleazy way the guy from michigan handled himself?- well that is ,regretably more common in roofing than we care to admist--- fairly close to the norm even Now- I don't know how it works in Texas- but here in Ohio-ANYONE can get a roofing license for about $100 tops---- plus maybe 7 or 8 minutes filling out some simple forms- it's a city by city thing----- lots of places you don't even need a license

so ask yourself- if you were a sub-why would a legitimate contractor need the sub to pull the permit on the subs license WHY DOESN"T THE CONTRACTOR HAVE HIS OWN LICENSE ?- because the contractor is a scam artist

you called a license a marketable asset---- but since it costs only $100- it ain't much of an asset- but the lack of that asset is telling

BTW- in another thread you asked about joining an association

just my opinion- but I don't think you really want to associate with roofers- you want to associate with potential customers-many social organizations would be great for that- but in my opinion- the HBA or a roofers association would be virtually worthless.

you mentioned joining one back home for medical benefits for employees at one time?- don't laugh-but a city boy like has got a good deal through our local Farm Bureau for workers comp. etc.- my accountant/payroll service set up a deal so I am in a group with a bunch of aggie typesetc.- much lower premiums than a group made up of roofers( see what I mean- you don't wanna really assosiate with roofers.)

Best wishes( ran 8 miles this morning@62 degrees!!!! :) stephen

"I see Jim,you added "put A price on it".that doesn't make it ok."

The offer was okay before a price was put on it.

If I was that licensed feller in IL, I'd be glad to entertain the idea. Of course, I would be willing to pull permits and do the jobs but I would not be bullied into using any of their substandard crews or methods. I would only agree to let my license be used if I was the final decision maker on the methods, installations, materials and maintained final say on quality control. I would maintain the right to fire any crew at any time. I would use my guys as project managers and would not allow the parent company to force an expansion beyond what I deemed appropriate. I would require that all credit accounts be backed by a bond or some other security. I would hold veto power over any unscupulously worded contract language.

None of those terms seem overbearing to me.

If they'd agree to that, we could talk about the money.

tico Said: well,somebody sees it.thats the most heinous killer of large contractors going.they hire on to the biggest roof contractor,biggest as,the longevity in the area,stable,with A name and rep.A year and A half later their shiDy work starts to show itself.next thing you know XYZ, the once roofing God for the area is busted. my theory,I dont even trust God,til I pat him down. now it seems they are starting to infiltrate the ranks of them intermediate and smaller guys with abilities. like I said,make liscensing mandatory.you cant stop all the shysters.yet you can weed them out.and when they dont take their national ass back to the 3 towns ago storm and do repairs or leave A Real office,with real crews locally,do not let them advertise they are local. worked for one co.they told us to tell them were local.4 mos. later I was like WTF when they announced that the office was closing.I had lied to hundreds,made them out to look like the real deal and they rolled up and were gone in 3 days. can you say,like A south carolina gypsy?

Make licensing mandatory equals more "nanny state" regulations. That is exactly what is killing this great country.

100 years ago, no one needed a license to build anything. How did Mr and Mrs Jones survive that scary era?

I recently moved from a state that thought licensing was the panacea. Every Tom Dick and Harry was a licensed builder and most of them never worked a minute in ANY trade.

Licensing creates desk jockey business managers and shuts out the working man. The guy that can build a car from a block of steel and have it running better than anything that Ford makes can't earn a living in MI if he can't pass the tests. According to the state, he's not qualified to fix a car and if I hire him to give me a tuneup, he could be fined $10,000 and put in jail. Does that make sense? I've known mechanix that couldn't read that could fix ANYTHING!

The idea of licensing was created by lawyers, for lawyers. It just gives them more control and more work.

Hey...I have an idea....lets require that the congress and senate and all the white house chaps get licensed. We won't put any hard questions in the test...just common sense questions. I'm not sure anyone that is currently working in DC would be licensed.

Stephen Said: Blue, simply stating something- does not indeed ,make it a fact.

I know that YOU are a big boy and can assess risks and liability-and decide accordingly

But not everyone can. A lot of sub-contractors on the lower end of things- dont even know their own numbers-and are even less able to assess risks and liabilities of this nature

In the game the O.P. described- the advertiser is looking to target exactly the sort of contractor who is un-able to see he is about to take it up the rear.

Stephen

Glad you decided to come back for a few posts Stephen. Your wisdom is always appreciated, at least by me. I want to let you know, that I speak often about you and your methods in my discussions with my roofing associates.

HOWEVER....this time you are missing the mark, but, I fully understand your point. I know there are "contractors" out there that easily can be duped. I know because I was one of them when I entered the roofing business with the guy from MI. I didn't properly set up my controls with regards to the accounts payable. I had a hard time getting those bills paid when Mr Shyster decided to skip the material suppliers and pay himself instead.

My point is this: a license is a marketable asset. If an unlicensed business wants to joint venture with a license holder, why shouldn't they run an advertisement? Should they refrain from seeking a legitimate business association simply because there are rubes out there that might fall victim to someone else? My point is/was that the original poster did not prove that there was any bad intentions or that the company advertising was seeking anything other than a logical and professional business deal.

Joint ventures, Limited Partnerships and entities like that have contributed greatly to the economic development of this country. Structured properly, it creates a win-win synergy that can make both parties happy, if not, wealthy.

I think there is an old saying that applies: "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."

Oh, I get it, (for sure), it's that sub-game.....stretching it, even further.... 10-15 yrs ago, I felt the sub-game would be short-lived....Heck, it's become the predominant "M-O" for residential roofing co.s in states with no licensing! Selective law enforcement by our lawmakers is the way of the times....i.e., illegal immigration....

Wilson ? No offence is that your first or last name. I don't want to refer to you as Mr. Wilson if it is your first name. I'm involved at this point in time with what appears to be the very same thing. Could you clarify a point for me? How do you establish a GC contractor will be able to convince a Roofing contractor to do crap work ?? How willthe GC contractor bring down the roofing God ( no offence John ) of the area. Makes no sense none notty absolutely zero. It is the responsibility of the roofing contractor. With the experence you attribute to the Local Roofing God it ain't gonna happen. Now if the roofing contractor is a sleaze ball dirt bag different story.

tico Said: well,somebody sees it.thats the most heinous killer of large contractors going.they hire on to the biggest roof contractor,biggest as,the longevity in the area,stable,with A name and rep.A year and A half later their shiDy work starts to show itself.next thing you know XYZ, the once roofing God for the area is busted. my theory,I dont even trust God,til I pat him down. now it seems they are starting to infiltrate the ranks of them intermediate and smaller guys with abilities. like I said,make liscensing mandatory.you cant stop all the shysters.yet you can weed them out.and when they dont take their national ass back to the 3 towns ago storm and do repairs or leave A Real office,with real crews locally,do not let them advertise they are local. worked for one co.they told us to tell them were local.4 mos. later I was like WTF when they announced that the office was closing.I had lied to hundreds,made them out to look like the real deal and they rolled up and were gone in 3 days. can you say,like A south carolina gypsy?

jimAKAblue Said:

Stephen Said: Hate to break it to you, Blue- but its a scam. Its designed to leave the foolish subcontractor who pulled the permit-holding a giant bag filled with risk and liability

the other guy-walks away with all the money.

stephen

We are all big boys and we all can assess the risks and liability and put a price tag on it.

well,somebody sees it.thats the most heinous killer of large contractors going.they hire on to the biggest roof contractor,biggest as,the longevity in the area,stable,with A name and rep.A year and A half later their shiDy work starts to show itself.next thing you know XYZ, the once roofing God for the area is busted. my theory,I don't even trust God,til I pat him down. now it seems they are starting to infiltrate the ranks of them intermediate and smaller guys with abilities. like I said,make liscensing mandatory.you can't stop all the shysters.yet you can weed them out.and when they don't take their national ass back to the 3 towns ago storm and do repairs or leave A Real" office,with real crews locally,do not let them advertise they are local. worked for one co.they told us to tell them we're local.4 mos. later I was like WTF when they announced that the office was closing.I had lied to hundreds,made them out to look like the real deal and they rolled up and were gone in 3 days. can you say,like A south carolina gypsy?

Blue, simply stating something- does not indeed ,make it a fact.

I know that YOU are a big boy and can assess risks and liability-and decide accordingly

But not everyone can. A lot of "sub-contractors" on the lower end of things- don't even know their own numbers-and are even less able to assess risks and liabilities of this nature

In the "game" the O.P. described- the advertiser is looking to target exactly the sort of "contractor" who is un-able to see he is about to take it up the rear.

Stephen

Stephen Said: Hate to break it to you, Blue- but its a scam. Its designed to leave the foolish subcontractor who pulled the permit-holding a giant bag filled with risk and liability

the other guy-walks away with all the money.

stephen

We are all big boys and we all can assess the risks and liability and put a price tag on it.

Hate to break it to you, Blue- but it's a scam. It's designed to leave the foolish subcontractor who pulled the permit-holding a giant bag filled with risk and liability

the other guy-walks away with all the money.

stephen

tico Said: if you got a liscence,and pull permits,got crews,tools and vehicles/trailers,youve obviously got the sales ability to not need to sub.

Some folks, that have all those qualities, don't have the time to manage a marketing group. They sometimes don't like to sell. Sometimes they prefer to spend their days on the roof, doing what they do best.

One of the beautiful things about America is that everyone is allowed to structure their own business models in any legal way that they desire. If it's done right, its a win-win for everyone.

if you got a liscence,and pull permits,got crews,tools and vehicles/trailers,you've obviously got the sales ability to not need to sub.

I'm sure that the two parties involved in that joint venture will be able to come to a financial agreement that will benefit both.

I don't see anything wrong with the ad and if I was a roofing crew in IL and was licensed and needed work, I'd contact them to see if we could reach a mutual agreement.