A slate roof challenge

Every town has it's own; a castle from about 100 years ago. This one was built from 1891 through 1896 and it has about 60 years of delayed maintenance to do. They really must have pissed the guy off that worked on it the last time. Let's see what Old School can do over the next few years. sounds like a lot of fun and a challenge.

https://picasaweb.google.com/crookston.john4/HendersonCastle?authkey=Gv1sRgCOq28sCpxdHSaQ#6141085858916171202

Those Add Ons" are original, but they were reroofed a while back and that is the result When and if we do this, I will take everything off and redo all of the flashings, the gutters, fix the masonry and redo the slate roofing. There will also be painting, wood repairs to trim and window sills etc. and everything else from the ground up on the outside of the house. Yes it will be a challenge. It is amazing how well the building is holding up to the abuse it has endured. A real fine example of quality w=hen it was built. The slates they used were shot 40 years ago though. Not good, but very steep and hard to get to so they haven't had people trying to walk on them. Again, a challenge.

What Branden said about the "Lifetime roofs"

Wywoody, the definition of the word "permanent" keeps coming up. These days, definitions are pretty subjective. I got my interpretation of permanent roofs from Joe Jenkins in the Slate Roof Bible. He uses the words permanent and temporary to separate two different types of roofing and roofers.

I believe he refers to permanent roofs as those lasting over a century. We have several well documented, proven examples of such roofing.... Certain natural slates, several types of clay tile, some hardwoods and copper, lead, brass, gold, etc...

Slates can be very different from one another. This is based on the geology of the slate. Slate is a metamorphic rock and the base elements determine its strength, water absorption and overall lifespan. Slates with a higher quartz content tend to last the longest. Some slates such as welch, peach bottom and buckingham are still unclear as to how long they last properly installed on a roof because a limit has not yet been found.

Clay is similar in that the clay itself has different properties. Then from there, how it was baked, at what temp, duration, cooling, curing, duration, etc determine the lifespan of the installed product. Clay tile is so far the longest lasting roof known to man. There are roofs over 400yrs old still functioning and in some cases still looking new!

With both of these, roof structure design also plays a huge roll. For instance, an "up and over" gable roof or a 4 sided hip roof with no valleys, flashings or penetrations will always last longest. Flashings, valleys and penetrations are always the weak link in a permanent roof. Most often these can be repaired by replacing the flashings and relaying the slates or tiles.

Sometimes the structures dont last as long as the roofing. I have witnessed this with ludowici "book" tiles. These tiles are usually found on gov buildings, churches and fine homes. Ive seen 200yr old structures fail, the tiles removed, the structure rebuilt then the tiles reinstalled.

The best quality slate i ever touched was a 100yr old peach bottom i installed on a 100yr old home. This slate was quarried, delivered, installed, lasted over 100yrs, taken down, transported and was still the strongest slate ive ever seen. On a compatible structure, i believe this slate would last several centuries. Actually im certain.

However the components to these roofs are even more critical for maximum lifespan. Things like plywood decking, monolithic underlayments, incompatible details and weak structures such as metal studs or dimensional pressure treated lumber make permanent roofing impossible. In these cases its important to leave permanent materials be and install compatible materials as it is important not to be wasteful with natural materials.

That looks like a real challenge, OS. I think the turret would look better without those clunky add-ons.

The pictures bring to mind a question about permanent roofing. After 100 years how much of the original roof needs to still be in place to be considered a permanent roof? What percentage of this roof is currently still in place and what will that percentage be after your work? Will you be trying to make all the slates on every side match?

Hey, I took some more pictures the other day and put them into the same folder. I was going to update the file and post it here, but the computer did it for me already. The only thing I didn't do was able them, but the pictures show some of the masonry wear and also the hot tub on the roof of the building. It looks over the city from the highest point in the city. Quite a view! A lot of work too. Neat!

I looked and looked at those pictures and finally figured out what the "roofer" did and why. He installed whatever slate he had in his hand and just centered the width of the slate on the joint below it. That is why they are varied, but entirely random and equal at the same time. It also gives a testament to the ability of slate to withstand incompetence given half a chance. We can do it if they can come up with enough money. There is a lot of radiused carpentry trim to do as well as making new cast pieces of stone to match the original Lake Superior Sandstone blocks, of course the slate on all of the fancy dormers and dormers on dormers, painting and masonry work and copper Yankee gutters. OSHA is also going to be a factor as I have to write the safety plan and get the buy in from the inspectors. It is really difficult to work on slate and do the other work at the same time, so some redundancy is going to be necessary. Also, it will be almost impossible to be tied off, so we will probably scaffold the whole thing, and everyone will work from the same scaffold.

the owner wants us to do the work in the winter when he is not having weddings in the building, and that may or may not be something that happens. A lot of details to think about.

Interesting and challenging.

I can see the photos on every post. I think it will be terrific to follow this job with you over the next few years. I must say that job will not be for the faint of heart. They are lucky to have you doing it.

Actually Woody, I make a jig that is a "slice" of "Pie" if you will of the roof. When you measure up the jig, you know exactly where each of the slates will lay and that is the pattern for the piece you cut. They are all close, so you have to number them and then they will fit like a glove. It takes a lot of time, but you can't make a mistake like that. The other thing that may be necessary is to cut a bit of the top "shoulder" off from the slates so that they don't hold up the slate above it. With shingles those points will lay down, but they have to be trimmed when you do slate. It is tricky. If you are curious how to do it, just google "cone roofs" and you will see an article I wrote for traditional roofing about 7 years ago that explains it all. I get calls from all over the world about that, and it is still the top article in google about that subject. I did something right.

That spacing is CT Grand Manor in reverse. Instead of comp trying to look like slate, it's slate trying to look like 3-tab.

OS, When you do a cone with slate, do you only cut wedges off each side of the top two/thirds and not the exposed part? That's how I as a novice would do it.

Clover, that is funny! Gaptooth slate. I never thought of it like that. the bad thing is that I am sure they paid this guy a lot of money to do that to them. I will get up there and look at it closely, and take some more pictures. The top flat deck on this building has a large hot tub and deck area that looks down on the roof and ove the city. It is the highest point in the city and you get a hell of a view from up there as well as a good look at the roof and everything that has to be done. It is / will be a LOT off work.

sorry for all of the similar posts. I could not see any of the pictures I as posting.

Never had a problem w/ Chrome, even with your original post.

That's some gaptoothed slate. Hillbilly slate?

If you use internet explorer, it doesn't recognize my picasa account anymore. You have to use something else and you should be able to see it. Yeah tinner, that is the extreme in the other direction

Well, I always hated seeing them jammed together. I suppose this is the other extreme.... :huh:

I can get your Picasa account, but not the pictures. For some reason, that link also puts up a Google+ toolbar. I didn't even remember I had a Google+ account.

Hopefully you can see this now. I switched browsers from Internet Explorer and I can see the pictures now anyway. Has anyone else been able to view the pics? Let me know. John

Try again you can only view this with a different browser than Internet Explorer - if you use Internet Explorer this link will NOT work:

https://picasaweb.google.com/crookston.john4/HendersonCastle?authkey=Gv1sRgCOq28sCpxdHSaQ