Visualize Your Future - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Brady Campbell of EagleView and Doug Vickerson of Renoworks. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast. 

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Heidi Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and we're here today to talk about something that seriously is taking the industry. We see such interest on this from all levels and that is visualization. How can you offer visualization of that new roof, that new siding, everything you need for this beautiful home online with technology? So, of course, we went to the experts and our friends at EagleView and Renoworks to find out how this is all working. Doug, Brady, welcome to the show.

Brady Campbell: Thanks, Heidi. Appreciate it.

Doug Vickerson: Hello, Heidi. Yes, thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello. I'm so excited. I love this topic. And I have to tell you, when we're looking at the analytics of RoofersCoffeeShop, visualizers are always at the top. There's huge interest both in the contracting community and with consumers. So before we dive into that, let's go ahead and start with some introductions. So, Brady, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us what you do with EagleView?

Brady Campbell: Sure. Brady Campbell, I'm the Vice President of Business Development here at EagleView. A lot of my work is really revolving around all the integrations and partnerships that we have across the entire landscape.

Heidi Ellsworth: That's great. You guys do so many great integrations.

Brady Campbell: There's a lot of-

Heidi Ellsworth: Really good stuff.

Brady Campbell: ... things out there. Yeah, there's a lot of things out there so it's-

Heidi Ellsworth: A lot.

Brady Campbell: ... been great. It's been a fun ride so far, and we're really starting to push that even further. So exciting time.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, it's great. And, Doug, I would love for you to introduce yourself and tell us about Renoworks?

Doug Vickerson: Sure. Doug Vickerson with Renoworks. I'm the CEO and it's been great working with EagleView and I'm not doing this because Brady is online here, but definitely the most important partnership that Renoworks has. I think that we've definitely found that us going to market together as you kind of introduced Heidi, is definitely opening some eyes of many people in the market. So we're pretty excited about this.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, it is good. Well, okay, let's start from the very beginning. I always like... It's a very good place to be. Doug, kind of tell us about the partnership with EagleView and Renoworks and how it all came together?

Doug Vickerson: Certainly. Well, there's a part of this story that we could only do while maybe having a beer, but I'll save that for having a beer. But Renoworks has been around for a number of years. We've been in this industry, quite frankly, focusing on visualization for all of that time. We're approaching 25 years in the market, working with the who's who of the industry, mainly building product manufacturers, distributors, retailers. And we had found in developing our business a visualization that what homeowners, what contractors, what manufacturers were asking for after they designed their project is what will it cost? How much material do I need? So if we were looking to help the contractor or a homeowner move through that process of getting all the answers I need for a remodel project, whether it's roofing or siding or windows or doors, we needed to partner with a company that could offer that information.

So EagleView obviously is that partner. EagleView, being the number one provider of measurements in the marketplace, provides that information so we can take in the measurement information, pass it on to other partners who can create a quote. It made a lot of sense for us to partner, if you look at the value chain, partner with a company who could actually help that homeowner move down that value chain of understanding what they needed to get their project done. So EagleView was that company.

And just working with the team at EagleView, Brady being definitely one of those guys, but the entire team at EagleView, almost from the top down, Pierce and everyone at EagleView, we've really enjoyed working with them. It's not often that you can have a partnership where everyone's working towards the same goal. We're very candid with one another. We all want to make a big impact in the market. So it's been enjoyable as well.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah. Doug, I've been familiar with your company and Renoworks for a long time. I've always been... I love it. I love the technology. And, of course, having been with EagleView it makes so much sense the two of you coming together and really offering this to the homeowners. So, Brady, let's talk about the contractors out there. This is going to make a huge difference when they're selling to homeowners. How do you see this visualizer and the EagleView integration really changing the game?

Brady Campbell: Yeah, Heidi, it's a good question and that's also the mission statement is we need to be able to transition and keep up with how homeowners buy. At the end of the day, homeowners are buying differently, they're searching differently, they're experiencing, exposing themselves to information differently. It's a whole new world. So, 15 years ago, I remember EagleView was all about sending emails with PDFs attached to it, right and so-

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Brady Campbell: ... we're looking at these visually and then tannering down pencils and trying to create estimates. I mean, it's just how it was. And so as we've kind of built the business, we've really started to recognize that EagleView needs to be where the contractors are. Those are in platforms, those are in visualization tools. Those are very imperative, so our journey has been going from those email PDFs to having XMLs to populate fields and platforms.

This is the next step in the journey is being able to give the contractors the ability to really show everything possible that they're serving. So if it's roofing, if it's siding, if it's windows and doors, anything like that, that's the next stage in that journey. And so it was a no-brainer for us obviously to match up with Renoworks, the most robust catalog out there in the market. And so as of today though, contractors aren't just selling roofing anymore. And I think there's a lot of guys out there that maybe start with just gutters, like the attaching gutters to projects because it was a no-brainer, they're already there. But as their product suite and services suite started to increase, it wasn't like they were just holding up a sample board up against the house or an architectural shingle, that's different, right? We're talking about windows, we're talking about siding, talking about everything.

And so we at EagleView now that ground truth measurements is our game and that's our tried and true. And we wanted to match up obviously with Renoworks being the tried and true. And so we want to give contractors the ability to use more tools, more robust visualization so that when they make the investment to acquire that homeowner as a lead, as an appointment, why don't we give them the tools that they can to really explode the services that they're trying to sell.

So in these scenarios, we want contractors being able to serve up all the data they need and they knock on the door and they have a full presentation that includes a visual representation of what that homeowner wants. So they can pick a couple colors, they can see it in 3D, they can see in an environment. These are the things that are starting to set ourselves apart from only 10 years ago, by the way. It might seem a long time, but it's not. We're getting to the stage of where all this type of technology is the changing environment.

So back to square one is like we want to be where the customers are, the contractors need to be where the homeowners are. So as we continue to power this, we're just trying to ramp up all those services and meet them where they're at.

Heidi Ellsworth: And when you talk about really the whole house measurements, Brady, I have seen a shift in the last 30 years since I've been involved, a shift in how much attention the homeowners and I'm going to say women, are paying attention to what's it going to look like on the roof? What's it going to look like on the siding? How do they go together? What's matching? And to be able to visualize and see that through technology, I think is really the key to upselling, to having the right customer satisfaction at the end. But, Doug, it takes all of those different types of products, all those different types of colors and you have worked for a long time on having the largest library of manufacturer imagery, everything to really power that visualizer. Tell us about that?

Doug Vickerson: So, you're right, we have worked a long time, a lot of blood, sweat and tears working on that. So, our main line of business for the longest time and this is why the partnership with the EagleView I think is so important. They obviously work so much with contractors. Before we started targeting contractors with EagleView, we focused all of our energy on manufacturers. The whole concept of Renowork started when our founder, he was a contractor, he was a remodel contractor in Calgary, Alberta. He had asked of him enough times, well, what will the project look like? You just said that, Heidi. People want to see what the colors and the different styles look on their house. So, we created the company 25 years ago\ and it continues. So for every year since our inception to now, we continue to add new product libraries to our platform.

And I think what goes into making a product library, I think probably one of the biggest fundamental things is relationship with the manufacturer is that we can... Manufacturers know Renoworks. We have that relationship, we have a process to update the products. Obviously technical know-how to build the library is important. So we've been working on that for a long time. So as we go to market, it's really nice to be able to go to a contractor. They list all their manufacturers, and I would say nine times out of 10, we have every single one of the manufacturers that they work with. So when they're building a visualization tool that they want to show a homeowner on an EagleView 3D model, what product will look like, like I said, nine times out of 10 have all the product that they have. And if we're missing a product, this is where it's interesting. Often a contractor can help us because they have connections with different... They would be obscure manufacturers because we work with all the big ones, but there might be a smaller manufacturer that we don't work with.

And the contractor often connects us, and it's pretty much a guarantee that the manufacturer will want to work with us because we make it pretty easy for a manufacturer to get onto our platform. They have a one-time fee to get onto the platform, and then they're available hopefully in the too distant future, thousands upon thousands of contractors.

Brady Campbell: Heidi, I was going to say, just Doug's point is having such a library, it allows these contractors to really boil down to what they want their homeowners to see as well. Some of these guys don't want to have everything on, you want to have four colors. So I mean these guys know what I'm talking about. It's like you don't want to offer the moon because then it just gets too decisive, too many colors, too many choices. And so that goal of that is really to help compress that sales cycle. So when you have a visual representation that they can quickly run through, it helps them kind of push the homeowner down that lead funnel and go the actual project time or potentially finance or signature.

And so that's where having such a big library that these guys can self-pick, select what they want to show, it really gives them a much tighter focus on that sales mentality. And then because it's there, it compresses that decision timeline to a much, much shorter to allow these guys to spend more projects, because again, it's like we want to rinse, wash, repeat with this stuff and given them the tool to do that. So having that robust library allows these guys to be more specific in what they want to sell.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, and I think it's important too because no matter how much you would like to think that a contractor is just loyal to one type of product, that's just not the case. They have good, better, best. They're going to do an asphalt shingle, maybe a couple of different manufacturers. They're going to have shakes, sink, maybe slate, metal, all of these things. So to be able to have that library, Doug, that you have really makes a difference to be able to follow the consumer, right, follow that homeowner on where they lead. I saw that metal roof down there. Do you have anything on that? All of a sudden now you're visualizing it and seeing it. It's definitely the next step that is I think going to change things all over.

Let's talk a little bit, gentlemen about the advent and I don't know if it's the advent, but it feels like of really being able to start to do virtual meetings. Virtual meetings, we've been talking about it, but there's been definitely this thing of you got to be at the coffee table, you got to be with both of them, you got to do that, but this next generation is changing all of that.

And so, Brady, what's your thoughts about this kind of visualization, these kind of tools, the EagleView tool measurements and all their data, the visualization, how is that going to help kind of take those virtual meetings to make them even easier and probably start doing more?

Brady Campbell: Yeah, it's the next stage. We're talking about the phasing of the contractor's workflow over just a few years. And EagleView just released a new product called Full House and it is essentially just a digital twin of the structure. So before we probably had some limitations around tree coverage or bushes or stuff like that. The Full House is actually enabled us to give out digital twin and great to be represented within Renoworks. And so now you have that much more confidence of, listen, I can literally do a Zoom with you, the homeowner, at your office, not even at your home. If you have a lunch hour, you're like, "Hell, I got 45 minutes to talk with this contractor. I'm too busy with kids, dinner, blah, blah, blah, soccer, all the way afterwards. My weekend is packed."

So this allows contractors to open up schedules so they don't have to take days off of work to come and meet the contractor. So meeting virtually is also a lot more comfortable for the homeowner. Not to say that being in the coffee table or the kitchen doesn't work because we all know it's the tried and true, but the shift of the generations of buying a car on a phone and guess what, I'm going to raise my hand. I did it.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, I did too.

Brady Campbell: I did it. It came from a very reputable dealer. It had the right logos on it. They're not going to sell me crap. So at the end of the day, it's like we need to be where the homeowners are. And so having the virtual representation being literally at the hands of the contractor, but also at the homeowner allows for so much more flexibility in scheduling, because you got to start talking about the metrics, the economics behind customer acquisition costs. How much time does it take to go drive out 38 minutes to go see the person?

Oh, it's a one-legger, crap, then need to go back. All these things. We need to make sure that we're looking at how much we're spending in time, not just dots. And so if we're open to really look at those numbers, and we'd love really getting involved with the contractor's business to say, "Listen, the amount of time it took you not just to hand measure a roof, to drive all the way out there, do the hand-measurement, write it down in the truck, all these things, those are all representative dollars and there's not much oversight into that."

So driving that type of virtual assessment and being able to give the homeowners rough estimates and still have that in-person feel is that next stage. That's where it's going to get down to. And I can only hope that as EagleView and Renoworks continue to build new products, new initiatives around that, that we're aiming for that. We're aiming for them to remove that barrier of having so much congestion around a homeowner's week that they can just do it virtually and still give them that look and feel through that visualization.

Heidi Ellsworth: And that look and feel, Doug, you've seen it for decades, that this is what the homeowners want. I mean, before they even knew this was what they wanted and now today what... I'd love your thoughts on the virtual meetings and just how the market is shifting and how important the visualization and measurements is a part of that?

Doug Vickerson: I mean, Brady said it really well. I think that if you look at contractors and remodelers out there right now, they're looking at their business as well. So there's a lot of cost savings that Brady just mentioned. If you don't need to visit a home multiple times, maybe you just visit with a homeowner once, virtually, you almost qualify them. If you decide that it's a good enough, big enough opportunity, that's when you would go and visit. And the great thing about that is obviously you can do it all remotely. You can order the measurements remotely, you can do all the design remotely. There's many different ways that you can get a photo of the home without visiting the home. Street View, all the different real estate online platforms typically have a photo of a home. All that goes into the visualization. And contractors I think are looking to improve their business as I said.

The other way that they kind of look to improve their business is if they're a roofer, it's pretty easy if you're going to site to also look at other areas on that home, siding, windows, doors. So we're seeing a lot of contractors decide to go into different parts of remodeling, so remodeling the whole home. So I think that's very important as well. So kind of a combo of the EagleView Full House measurement report along with what Renoworks can do. We can design the entire exterior. I think that that's what the market is asking for, and we're delivering and hopefully as Brady said, hopefully we'll continue to build tools to make them more successful at that.

Heidi Ellsworth: And, Doug, you've already, I mean probably millions of times that homeowners have come onto sites using your visualizer, with manufacturers, now with contractors who they are actually playing with it ahead of time as they're doing their research. So by the time they get to the contractor, this really makes it. And for contractors to have that visualizer on their site-

Doug Vickerson: Yes.

Heidi Ellsworth: ... it just sucks the homeowner in. It's just like your car, Brady. I mean, you go on, oh, well, I want side steps. Let's see what that's going to look like, right?

Doug Vickerson: It's definitely an engagement tool where we try to make it as simple for the homeowner to start designing their home right away. So we're using AI and machine learning so that when a homeowner uploads a photo of their home, they're literally designing the outside of their home in 15 seconds because some of the tools that we have to allow them just make it very easy for them. So if you get someone engaged and if you're a contractor and if they're engaged using your tool with the products that you sell, that's pretty powerful from a contractor standpoint. And contractors are definitely differentiating their offering against other contractors who don't offer design like we're offering.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. That's really... it differentiates your business and also makes you progressive. And I really feel a lot of times people say, "Well, yeah, that's for the Gen Z or the Millennial homeowners," but I really believe that the Gen Z and the Millennials have taught their Gen X and Boomer parents how to do this. And so it's being required on all levels. And a lot of times you even see on older, they're doing a lot more research, they love these kinds of tools and so it's such a differentiator and I think it leads to them doing more, so they upsell. So, Brady, talk a little bit about that, what you've been hearing from contractors about using these kinds of tools to upsell?

Brady Campbell: Yeah, so it's funny when I used to carry... I was in sales, I had a contractor approach me and he was like, "I buy an EagleView report on every single appointment." I was like, "Thank you. I appreciate that. It's amazing." He goes, "I use it. I use it so I can get to know faster." And I was like, "Interesting, right, like wow." Now tremendously value is time, there's no question about it. And so I was thinking about it for a couple of weeks and then I followed up with him. I was like, "So you're using this on every single appointment?" He's like, "Yeah, there's no question about it. It saves me tremendous amount of time." I was like, "Have you ever thought maybe adding different products or other types of services since you already have the data, you're already committed to having the data" and even as something as simple as metal valves? I don't know. I think that's possible just to get-

Heidi Ellsworth: Gutters.

Brady Campbell: ... a 10%, right, gutters, a couple grand, boom, let's go. So you have all this data. Have you ever thought about stair-stepping your offerings just a little bit, just a bit of a test? Contractor came back and was like, "I'm interested in walls, in your wall reports." And so he started going towards this digital twin at every single appointment. He found out how to save time. He found out how to start upselling his products. Then he got into more products and so it opened the door to him starting buying LB and all these other siding manufacturer stuff. He starts offering that. Now he has two offices. Actually just saw him the other, at last [inaudible 00:24:51]. He's like, "You know, it's such a game changer to have information like a digital twin at your fingertips because then it opens up doors to so many different opportunities with the homeowner."

He's like, "Listen, I understand the cost-price ratio, but there's nothing more successful than being ready and having the ability to upsell at the door, right when you're at the door." You should have a plethora of products and plan in place to sell all these things. You would put that in with a visualizer like Renoworks. You're talking about compressing as much as possible into one sit and to Doug's point, they can go and start custom-doing and start playing around with the visualizer right there at the kitchen table if they want. So they can actually start going through and seeing what it would look like because they didn't think about maybe putting paint on the trim. Anything of these services are adding on value. And I think at the end of the day, as we start seeing the roofing to home exterior renovation, that transition of everyone starting to pick those up, they got to make sure if they have those extra tools to be ready when you're putting in so much time and effort and money into that one appointment.

Get ready for the appointment with having the best data, the best visualizer with the best catalog so that you have a very, very easy ability just to go and upsell and pay for everything right out of the gate. And I think it also comes true to the homeowner is having that experience. So what does the receiving end look like? And having a contractor come prepared with the visualization and all the products necessary to make them feel good about their largest investment. I think that's the connection. And I think that's where contractors are seeing the successes now and I think the technology is catching up to these guys and we just want to push them even further into the profit, and so I think it's-

Heidi Ellsworth: I think consumer confidence, you just nailed it. That's what it really is about. Because if I'm looking at my house and I'm like, "Okay, I like this, I like that, but, oh man, that would really look good." And now I can see it and I see how good it looks. I'm going to add that. They're here, I don't want the hassle later on. I might as well do it all at once. I mean, it's just such an opportunity. Doug, you have to see that. I mean, not only with contractors, but I'm sure with architects, with all the people who use your visualizer.

Doug Vickerson: Yeah, I mean everyone, we have a pretty substantial data layer, meaning what we do is we kind of track all the clicks that people are doing. And you can tell if... especially looking at a homeowner that they start a project and there are times that we're seeing clicks 60 minutes into a session. So you know that they're actually taking product and looking at different designs on their home. So I think it's really important. All the data that we've had over the years, we know that when a homeowner is engaged with either a photo of their home or a 3D model of their home that EagleView creates and they use it, it is very likely that that homeowner is going to embark on a project. So that's good for the manufacturer, good for the contractor. And, like you said, consumer confidence, if we can help the homeowner be confident in the decision that they're making around design, everyone kind of wins.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, it really... it does. It is to me, no-brainer. I was one of the first ones at EagleView going, "Hey guys, this is a no-brainer." It takes a little while for everyone to adopt it, but it really is. It just all comes together. So let's talk a little bit about how contractors can get started because there are a number of ways, but let's talk specifically about the EagleView, Renoworks integration and how they can get their hands on this. So, Doug, I'm going to say, can you start?

Doug Vickerson: Yeah, I'll start from the Renoworks standpoint because there's multiple ways that a contractor can start. So you can go to renoworks.com or renoworkspro.com, that's probably the best one, renoworkspro.com and kind of follow the prompts all over the website. It gives you a whole bunch of information, gives you information on if you're an EagleView user, how you would integrate with our system to automatically get access to all the EagleView measurement reports that you've ordered. And we have a team of people that were kind of at a moment's notice will demo the solution for you. So it's quite easy. We offer a 30-day free trial, and I think both companies are doing a lot. Once a contractor kind of enters a trial to make sure that they know how to use it, make sure that it can fit into their sales process, make sure we show them how to put it onto their website, that it integrates with their CRM system. So we're trying to make it as easy as possible for the contractor to get using it probably within a day of us putting it in front of them.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, that is excellent. So, Brady, where they can get it, but also a little bit of that bigger picture and we kind of touched on it just a little bit at the beginning, but this is about getting your measurements, getting them through your visualizer, then closing the deal and then having all the measurements for all the right bill of materials, for all of that, for the whole process. So just take us through that real quick and then how contractors can get started.

Brady Campbell: Yeah, absolutely. That's the goal is making sure you're prepared with the right measurements. Have the visualizer in place. Have the ground truth measurements in the beginning so you can avoid all these costly returns or reorders, re-deliveries, all those things. Be prepared. At the end of the day, be prepared. But more importantly is have the right tools to make sure those measurements are doing work for you. So getting onto renoworkspro.com, sign in, get an account, do a 30 days. In that 30-day trial, you're going to get a free Full House from us, which is that digital twin that a contractor can take a look at, take a test of and write it through. At the end of the day, eagleview.com, sign up for a new account. A lot of people already probably have accounts, but [inaudible 00:31:47] go to eagleview.com, create a new account.

The bigger part here is going to renoworkspro.com and signing up there. There's a really easy integration. It's essentially just as how you guys have CRMs and your EagleView accounts integrated there. Within renoworkspro.com, we have the ability to sync your account, so you type in your EagleView credentials, it's all safe and secure and then boom, instantly all of your reports that you've ordered in your report history, all are going to become available within the Renoworks platform. So now you can start immediately visualizing the data you ordered two days ago, two weeks ago, two years ago.

So all those projects are going to be right there for you to start visualizing. But the real purpose around this is to try the 30-day trial, get involved, put some money into it so you can just really see what it can do to your business. Now, send a couple of reps out there just to trial it, use some data, use a visualizer, make it impressive to the homeowner. But at the end of the day, this is really about taking the next step in the business and then progressing that ability for your sales team to start really being where the homeowners are and giving them the tools to show what you guys have for sale and the services you got. And that's what it's about.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. What a great tool. Gentlemen, thank you so much.

Brady Campbell: Of course. Thank you, Heidi, and appreciate your time.

Doug Vickerson: Yeah, thanks Heidi. That was great.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and I can tell you this technology will change your business. This is the kind of technology that you need, that's going to set you apart and really take you to that next level of closing deals, which is what everybody wants. So, you can find this information on the EagleView directory, both on RoofersCoffeShop and actually on all three coffee shops, RoofersCoffeeShop, MetalCoffeeShop and CoatingsCoffeeShop. Look for EagleView Assess, and EagleView Overall. It's all going to be there. You can also find the Renoworks directory on MetalCoffeeShop. So look for that directory and get the information there too.

Thank you so much, gentlemen, and thank you all for listening. This is the kind of information that really does change business and change lives. Please check out all of our podcasts under the read, listen, watch navigation Roofing Road Trips, and also on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and set your notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road Trips.

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