Tips for Working With HOAs - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Gus Mokakos from DaVinci Roofscapes and Carlton Kohler of Elite Exterior. You can read the interview below or listen to the podcast. 

Intro: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on the road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seat belts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip.

Heidi Ellsworth: Hello and welcome to another Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and we're here to talk about something that not all roofing contractors want to talk about and that is HOAs. How do you deal with them? How do you win? What does success look like? So we invited our experts from DaVinci Roofscapes to come talk to us, along with a DaVinci Masterpiece Contractor of the Year, Carlton Kohler with Elite Exteriors. I'm so excited to hear your story, Carlton. Welcome to the show.

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. Thanks, Heidi. I appreciate it. It's an honor for you guys to ask me to be on the podcast, so I greatly appreciate it. Really appreciate it.

Heidi Ellsworth: We love it. Love talking to our contractors. That's so great. And Gus Mokakos with DaVinci is also here. Gus, thank you. I'm so excited because you bring... When contractors and manufacturers work together, great things happen.

Gus Mokakos: Yes, thank you very much. I appreciate it, Heidi, and thanks for having me on the show. It'll be a great conversation piece for the HOAs.

Heidi Ellsworth: Great conversation. So let's start out with some introductions. So Carlton, first, can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your business.

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. So again, my name is Carlton Kohler. I am a part owner of a roofing company in Northeast Atlanta. Gwinnett County is where everybody's... The big place that everybody's heard of. So we started Elite Exteriors in March of 2020. Really more insurance driven. Really more an asphalt, traditionally based insurance claim roofing company. Fortunate enough to start to hear about... Some of our customers that were saying, "Hey, we love"... We'd get some calls and we'd go to these jobs and they'd say, "Hey, we're tired of the cedar shake. We like the way that it looks, but we hate the maintenance. We don't like the upkeep. We're tired of this. Is there anything you can recommend?" And at the time it was like, "Hey, we can put an asphalt shingle on there." And they're like, "No, we don't want that. We want something similar."

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Carlton Kohler: And so, I started doing more research, and then that's when I discovered DaVinci and reached out to our local rep, Mike Frank. I really started diving into the product, really learning more about it and really getting more educated. And then I would take that to these customers and say, "Look, this is a great product. This is what we found." And then so that's how we started diving into really the synthetic shake. And that's how we've really kind of started to change our business model more and incorporating more of that product because it is such a fantastic product and it's easy to sell.

Heidi Ellsworth: That is awesome. That is awesome. Well, congratulations. Wow! And Gus, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do with DaVinci?

Gus Mokakos: Yeah. I am Gus Mokakos. I'm the Territory Manager with DaVinci since October of 2019. I cover the northern part of Illinois, and Illinois only with that part. It is one of the larger territories in the country, and we do have a lot of HOA influence out this way. I've done about, I would say about 30 HOA presentations to help open up those bylaws. And we've had success rates of 29 out of 30, so it's been a pretty big success rate on that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Gus Mokakos: I think we had more of a larger HOA openings as well the last couple of years. We had about a 7,500 square community that we locked in two years ago.

Heidi Ellsworth: Geez, that's amazing. Congratulations.

Gus Mokakos: Thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love these success stories. This is awesome. Well, okay. Speaking of success stories, Carlton, first of all, congratulations. You are the-

Carlton Kohler: Oh, thank you.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah, DaVinci Masterpiece Contractor of the Year Award.

Carlton Kohler: [inaudible 00:04:10].

Heidi Ellsworth: And it was for a home that you did on Lake Lanier in Georgia, which was in an HOA. Can you tell us about the project?

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. So it was kind of the same deal. We had somebody that had reached out to us in wanting us to repair their roof. They had a pine shake roof and they wanted us to repair it. And I was like, "Look, let me show you this." So I was like, "I can repair this, but I'm telling you this is what you want. This is where you want to go." And he was sold and was like, "Hey, I want this." HOA said, "Absolutely not." They don't know anything about it. They only want the pine or cedar. They only want true shake. And so I said, "Okay. Well, let's... Put me in contact with the HOA president. Let me see if I can talk to him. Let me see if we can sit down and have a presentation." So I reached out to the HOA president and he was like, "Look, I'm fine."

He was like, "Look, if the community wants this, I need a signature from everybody, at least three fourths of the community saying they're agreeing for these bylaws to be changed." So what we ended up doing is, I actually partnered up with Mike Frank, who's the rep here. And we were able to organize just a meeting, just a HOA meeting where we had everybody come down to the clubhouse. We had all the samples. I had all the literature, all the sales material. Mike Frank was there, the HOA president was there. And so, we had about a two-hour presentation where we sold them on the material and then I was able to say, "Look, we can do everybody's roof with this stuff. If you guys approve it, I'm telling you this is a better product." So we were able to get the HOA to approve it. And once the bylaws were changed, then we did almost the entire community. So it was-

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow!

Carlton Kohler: Yeah, it was... Everybody... It sells itself, especially if you can get insurance companies to pay for it, pay for the shake and then come back with DaVinci. It's really easy, really easy to sell.

Heidi Ellsworth: Just because I'm always curious, give us a little bit of a visual on this podcast so people can see. What kind of house was it that... The first house that you did, what kind of house was it? And the architecture and the product that you used with DaVinci?

Carlton Kohler: Yeah, so we used... So again, this is a lake house. It overlooks Lake Lanier. If anybody gets a chance, I'm sure you'll have the links somewhere in the podcast notes when we're done.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yes. On the directory.

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. So the drone videos that we have, it's fantastic because this lake... It's a traditional, traditional southern home, probably 8,000 square feet, 7,000 square feet. A beautiful home that overlooks the lake. And we ended up coming back with an aged cedar select shake is what we did. And then we changed all of the copper as well, so. And then it turned out beautiful, it turned out really well. The shake looks fantastic. I still get calls from the customer all the time saying, "Hey, we just appreciate what you did. It looks fantastic. I'll pull into the dock on the boat." And he's like, "And you can see my house from the lake. And I just love the way it looks."

Heidi Ellsworth: That is awesome. And for everyone out there, yes, you can see all the award winners for the DaVinci Masterpiece Contractor of the Year on their directory on RoofersCoffeeShop. So go there, take a peek at this house. Carlton, that is just so cool. So once you had it approved... And that to me is a huge step and it's to get everybody there, get everybody to approve it. That is huge. Then talk to me a little bit about... Like you said, the homeowner loves it, he loves the look. But what are some of the other items that really hit home with both that owner and the overall HOA on the return on investment of using a DaVinci roof?

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. So ROI is obviously huge. But really what helps us sell it or for me, what helps me sell it the easiest is when I say, "Hey, this can save you money." Insurance companies, it's a high risk. This is a huge liability for them to have. You have this highly flammable material, right. You know it's susceptible to... It's expensive to replace. It's susceptible to wind and hail. You have all of these issues and so they're going to adjust your premiums accordingly with that risk. You come back and tell them that you have this high grade synthetic shake, that's [inaudible 00:08:56]. It's class 4, class A. This is the best you can put on your roof. They will lower your premiums.

You're not as high of a risk, so you can save money there. And then over the short term, you're not having to seal it, you're not having to soft wash it, you're not having to worry about any discoloration. So the maintenance piece is gone as well. So you're still saving money. And then it's comparable in price to a shake roof, if not cheaper. So it's the value that they get. And then the lack of maintenance with the reduced premiums that really kind of go like, okay, this is a no-brainer.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. I've seen-

Carlton Kohler: Yeah, it makes sense.

Heidi Ellsworth: I've seen the maintenance on real cedar before, and it is extensive. And every year, it's a constant every year that you're working on that. So it makes total sense. And Gus, you have been doing this in Illinois with a lot of HOAs. Please, I would love to hear. You said, in your introduction, how many HOAs you've done. So give us just a little bit of background of how you started working on this and how you've found success.

Gus Mokakos: Yeah, I think a lot of it's either word of mouth from the contractor working in an area that the bylaws had cedar and cedar only or a lot of the mailers that we send out. We send out to natural cedar homes. They obviously say, "Hey, looking at a different alternative, let's replace your cedar to a composite." And we'll get a lot of call-ins from there. What we want to do is, we have the excitement from the homeowner, right? A homeowner wants something different. They don't want cedar on their home anymore because, like Carlton mentioned, a lot of bullet points. Maintenance costs, return on investment, everything, those add up a lot. And the longevity of these cedar homes now aren't as good as they used to be 40, 50 years ago. These cedar homes now are lasting maybe 15, 20 years max compared to what they used to last 40, 50 years ago, 40, 50 years.

So as long as we get the buy-in from the homeowners, I work with the homeowner, get the buy-in with the homeowner and then my next step is to get them in front of me to... In of the board. And they have the ability to get in front of the board to see if they can get us on that call log or on one of the talking points during one of their meetings, whether it's every month, every quarter, whenever they have those meetings. And what I usually recommend is, "Please get me in there." If they're not working with a contractor, if they're working with a contractor like Carlton himself, who's an awesome DMC, let's go together, let's present together.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Gus Mokakos: Every HOA is a little bit different. You can have a five-minute time slot, which is very difficult to get a lot of information in, a 10-minute, 15 minutes, but you want to drill down on how much time you have and you want to make those bullet points quick. Like Carlton mentioned, class A fire rated, impact 4 rated, maintenance free, right. The resin virgins, something you're probably never going to replace again on your home, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Gus Mokakos: Those are some of the touching points. Bring a couple sample boards. And then depending on the HOA, you might have to do some further due diligence, install lists, sample boards or whatever else you need. And hopefully, you'll get it approved.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. And talk about really that first breakthrough customer where you're breaking the barrier in that HOA. How important is that? And what are some tips for the contractors to find that first customer who installs the roof and then it's just kind of everybody else wants it?

Gus Mokakos: Yeah, it's very important. You got to get their buy-in, right? You got to make sure they understand the whole product, the DaVinci product. It's like any cycle. You're probably going to spend a couple of hours with that homeowner, whether it's over the phone, whether one of our project specs inside our office is dealing with them as well. But you're going to have a lot of questions. You're going to have to break it down from them from point A to point B, C, D. You're going to go through the whole gamut, what it's made out of, how long we've been in business for, install lists around the area so they can go look at other houses, so they can see that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Gus Mokakos: Also, what I'd do is get some buy-in from their friends because they have friends or neighbors who want something different outside of cedar. So the more buy-in you have than more than one person, it's a little bit better for you on the HOA because it's hard for an HOA not to approve it if most of the homeowners want a different option outside of cedar, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Right. And how do you go about... I'm just curious because I've done a little bit of this in my time too. But how do you go about finding those real or natural cedar communities? And what are some of your tricks to find those?

Gus Mokakos: So, yeah. So I'll do... Obviously, I know my territory pretty well. I know the areas, the zip codes that are cedar-driven versus asphalt-driven areas. We have a lot of pockets in Illinois that is basically cedar, not asphalt-proof.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Gus Mokakos: But I will ask a lot of my contractors in the area. I have a lot of good DMCs that'll be like, "Hey, can you help me out? It'll benefit both of us. Can you give me some zip codes with some cedar?" I'll get the mailers out there, we'll do the legwork. We'll get the mailers out there, and then we'll get the phone calls in and we start passing those leads out to everybody, all the contractors that are willing to help us, right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Gus Mokakos: So, a lot of it comes that way, and then it's word of mouth. You got one neighbor, next neighbor, "Hey, there's a community right next door to me, different HOA. You should talk to them as well. We're friends, right?"

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Gus Mokakos: It's kind of a word of mouth. I think if you do justice by your homeowner, you'll get a lot of callbacks.

Heidi Ellsworth: I think that goes, right. And having that relationship between, like we talked about before, between your rep and the contractor, how important that is because then you're all working together to make this happen. So Carlton, I'm curious, have you had other HOAs that you've been involved with besides Harbour Point? What other HOAs have you worked with?

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. So Gus... I like Gus's. Sorry. We've done mailers. Something that really I guess has helped us is, I'll actually spend. If it's pouring down rain and I know that obviously production's stopped, we don't have any builds going on, I'm not going to do any... My guys aren't going to be doing any canvassing or door knocking. I'll actually get on Google Maps and I'll just spend a day on Google Maps and just write down addresses, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Love it.

Carlton Kohler: And then find these communities that I can tell have cedar shake roofs and they look old. And then I'll actually... I'll pull their numbers from database. I'll cold call them. So I'll do that, but yeah. So there's two other communities that we're currently working with trying to push it. And around Greenville now. Again, these are areas that it's still... In Chicago, I guess, it's not as humid in Illinois.

It's not as humid as it is here. So that's a big selling point for me, especially on these lake communities. And then the south is, the humidity is ridiculous. So again, and Gus made a good point about how it's the young wood now that the cedar that's being harvested from, these trees aren't so old and they're rushing it. And then so they're not as tight and it's not lasting as long.

Heidi Ellsworth: Right.

Carlton Kohler: So, it's like, look, you have a... You want a high-class product. And so the way that I sell it is kind of exclusivity, right? Because it's like, look, you want this product, you want that look. You want to have that high-end look, but the product is not, it's really not high-end anymore. It's almost like false advertising, but you can come back with a DaVinci. And this is the high-end stuff, right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah.

Carlton Kohler: You have the look, you have the exclusivity, and then you have the longevity, the maintenance free that you're looking for. So it's the best, the best of both worlds. At this point, I don't know why anybody would put an actual cedar shake roof on their house anymore. I really don't. I really don't. But [inaudible 00:16:33]-

Heidi Ellsworth: Everything has changed so much.

Carlton Kohler: Right. Yeah, it's the same thing though. We'll go in there. And it's just kind of getting your name out there, letting them know that we are established. We do have credentials from DaVinci. We do know the product. We can get you to the finish line. It's just, are you willing to help us put ourselves in front of the right people to make those changes to the bylaws and to really educate the community on what they don't know, the problem that they don't know they have yet, that they'll have.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah.

Carlton Kohler: So, it's kind of like we're-

Heidi Ellsworth: Because [inaudible 00:17:09].

Carlton Kohler: We're trying to take a proactive approach.

Heidi Ellsworth: Well, and you know what's interesting? I've just got asked this question. Because back in the day, and especially I know I was working out of Illinois, and there were a lot of pine shake roofs also.

Carlton Kohler: Terrible.

Heidi Ellsworth: And I think down in Georgia too, right?

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. It's terrible.

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Carlton Kohler: It looks awful. After about 12, 14 years, the whole slopes are all curled. It looks terrible. And they split, break, brittle. It's terrible. It's terrible.

Heidi Ellsworth: So, it's not just cedar, it's also pine.

Carlton Kohler: Pine, yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: There's other kind of roofs. And finding those and really talking to the HOA about the quality, the performance, the longevity, everything in DaVinci is critical. So tips wise, you just gave a great nugget to all the contractors out there, Carlton, about use Google Earth to go find them to do your prospecting. Just summarize top two or three tips that you would give to other contractors who are trying to break into the HOAs.

Carlton Kohler: Definitely, you can... Bylaws should be public, right? So again, if you ask, "Hey, who's your HOA? What's the address? Where do you send your dues to? What's the community? Who manages the community? Do you have a person?" And you can find that, right? So normally, you can find that online. Or if I get in there and I'll door knock, right? I'm like, okay, this is a good community. Let me see if I can ask if they know who it is. And then I'll go talk, say, "Hey, is this even allowed in here?" Right?

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Carlton Kohler: "Have you heard of this?" And then I'll say, if they say, "Yeah," okay, hey, is there any way I can do a lunch and learn, right? I know you guys meet once a quarter. Do you meet at all? I'm happy to buy everybody that shows up some food or just get something from Moe's, get a bunch of tacos or just a bunch of food. Just say, "Hey, just come out. Let me hear. Can you guys listen to what I have to say? And let me see if I can bring you guys something that could help prolong your roof and then add money to your investment."

Heidi Ellsworth: That's great. That's a great tip. And you build that relationship. It's always food and relationships. It all goes together.

Carlton Kohler: Right.

Heidi Ellsworth: Gus. Okay. So, for contractors like Carlton, award-winning contractors or as you said, other DaVinci Master contractors or people who want to start selling and using DaVinci in their business and making an offering, where can they get the support? How do they get ahold of their reps? What kind of materials do you have? What are things... We talked about sample boards, having things there for these HOAs, but just how to get started.

Gus Mokakos: Yeah. If you don't know your local rep, I would definitely call into our office. The girls, the project managers will know. They'll ask you what address you're at, where do you live, where do you reside your business location for your contractor? They'll get you the correct person by cell phone number so you can contact them or they'll contact you, vice versa. Any DaVinci employee or territory manager should be excited when they get a phone call from a contractor or somebody that wants to do HOAs with them. So I would assume the territory manager from DaVinci would call that contractor and have an introduction and ask, "Hey, are you looking to... Let's join together and open up an HOA, if we can." But we can support them in a lot of ways. Like I mentioned earlier, sample boards is a big thing. Install lists in the area. We can always break down areas nearest to that HOA community, depending on the profile as well.

We can break it down by profile, by color, whatever they need. So it's a pretty neat process. We also have a color coordinator specialist. So if you ever have homeowners that you want to do an example on one of the homes, because you have very similar homes in the area, we can take that picture, send it over to her color coordinator specialist within a couple of days. She could recommend colors, so it could help out that HOA. Because a lot of the problems that I've noticed with HOAs and some of the HOAs I deal with in Illinois is a color issue. What colors you going to approve, what colors you're not going to approve. Some are very stickler, some are wide open. You can do any product in DaVinci, you don't care what color, don't care if it's slate or shape. Some are very stickler. Some watch select shake in certain colors, multiple shake in certain colors.

You got to uncover those needs. But it's always good to even have a color coordinator specialist's ideas before you even walk into that HOA. And like Carlton mentioned earlier, a lot of these homeowners, if you start knocking or you start dealing with a homeowner, they have an idea who the president is or they can get that information. Because usually, they're getting emails every month when the next meeting is. They really do have that information. It's not very hard for them to find it. If they don't know them, they're going to have that information somewhere or their neighbor will. Those are some of the things that we can really support. I did a couple of things where we had HOA, they wanted DaVinci, they wanted the profile, they just weren't sure on the colors. We did a color coordinator coordination on one of the houses, one of the mock houses we were looking at doing. And there were between four colors. So we actually did four by four plywood sheets.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow.

Gus Mokakos: And me and our guy out here in Illinois decided to put up each color, and we left them on. And what they were doing is, they were picking these plywood pieces that are a little bit heavier, right? Four by fours or two by fours or wherever they were. And they were putting them on the roof of the home, the existing cedar roof so they can see the color every day. And they were just flipping out the boards. They had four different colors and they chose one from there.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it.

Gus Mokakos: [inaudible 00:22:33]. Yeah. We can ask. If you're a contractor, always ask. We'll tell you no if we can't do it, but if we can help you out, we will get creative if we have to. Right? So...

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah. Carlton.

Carlton Kohler: I love it. Yeah, that's good stuff. Kind of a side note, Gus, have you... We try to incorporate something like that because again, colors and it is so vast. I don't know if you've ever seen anybody use a hover where you can actually do a 3D rendering of the house and then you can actually pick DaVinci and you can see it on the 3D rendering of the house. Now, it's not as-

Heidi Ellsworth: How does it look?

Carlton Kohler: I was going to say it doesn't look as good as a two by four or four by four piece of plywood [inaudible 00:23:13].

Heidi Ellsworth: Yeah.

Carlton Kohler: But it can still kind of... It's a general idea and at least it's kind of like another tool that you can use if it's at your disposal. We kind of use that as a selling point where it's like, look, we'll... We can say, look, we can give you kind of a 3D rendering of your house with multiple different designs and different colors. And then again, if they're like, oh, well this one looked... I don't think the H cedar looks good, but I want to see the black oak. So it's like, all right, those are the two sample boards I'll bring out there. And then we will hold the sample boards up or take some overview photos of that.

Heidi Ellsworth: Sure.

Carlton Kohler: But that's a really... I really like your idea. I think I might [inaudible 00:23:52]

Gus Mokakos: No, I like the harbor idea as well. I've heard about it. I haven't seen a lot of people... I haven't seen it physically myself. I've heard it works out. I've heard the same thing as you, it's not the greatest looking thing. It's not perfect, but it works out.

Carlton Kohler: Right.

Gus Mokakos: We've also done bundles. I like to send bundles out instead of the sample board sometimes and tell those homeowners, take a piece, put in your front, take a piece, put in your siding. When you drive in, look at it from the sun, from the cloud. Because colors change, right. You look at some of the slick colors, they can change so quickly. We don't want somebody putting a color on they don't like or approving a color they don't like and finding out the hard way. But whatever you guys need, we're here to support you guys as much as possible. I like the install list. I know it's not exactly your house, but you can see it from far away and see what that roof looks like as a whole picture. That's my favorite thing to do, is the install lists. So I'd always reach out to Mike Frank. I know Mike Frank pretty well. And ask him from install lists in your area of course and get those. I'm sure you have those already, but they're always pretty helpful for us, so.

Heidi Ellsworth: It sounds like he has a whole HOA of them.

Carlton Kohler: Yeah, we're getting ready. So we're getting ready to do one. And she couldn't decide between slate or shake, so I gave her two install lists. And she's been driving around all over the state trying to narrow it down.

Gus Mokakos: I'm sure. I'm sure.

Heidi Ellsworth: Wow! I love it.

Gus Mokakos: That's the biggest challenge, right? That's the biggest challenge. I've realized the biggest challenge for us is, it's not the product selling the product, it's the color sometimes. I'm like, wow, this can really hold up. And it's frustrating because you're ready to get the job done and you're looking at a big job and you're waiting a couple of weeks for the wife and husband to decide on colors, right?

Carlton Kohler: Right.

Gus Mokakos: Then it gets scary when they ask for your opinion because you're like, I don't want to give you my opinion [inaudible 00:25:27].

Carlton Kohler: Yeah.

Heidi Ellsworth: I love it. Well, gentlemen, this has been awesome. Thank you for all of the nuggets, all the wisdom, everything. It's so great. And Carlton, I have to say thank you as an award winner. You're also part of our R-Club. Thank you, DaVinci. So thank you for being a part of that with us. And this has just been great information. I wanted to say thank you both so much for your time today and for all the knowledge that you're sharing out there for all the other contractors.

Gus Mokakos: Thank you.

Carlton Kohler: Yeah. Thanks, Heidi.

Gus Mokakos: Thanks, Heidi. Carlton, if you want to move to Chicago, come on by. We can use another contractor out this way, so.

Heidi Ellsworth: You're going to get in trouble.

Carlton Kohler: You could use some creatives out there, man. Yeah.

Gus Mokakos: Yeah, I know. Thanks guys.

Heidi Ellsworth: [inaudible 00:26:09]. Thank you. And thank you all for listening.

Carlton Kohler: Have a great day.

Heidi Ellsworth: This is why. This is what Roofing Road Trips is about, bringing the best of the best together. And you can find all of the award winners for DaVinci's Masterpiece on their directory, on RoofersCoffeeShop. You can also see it on Ask a Roofer. Check it all out and find out how you can take your business to the next level with these types of products. Also, check out all of our podcasts under the read listen watch navigation under Roofing Road Trips or on your favorite podcast channel. Be sure to subscribe and get those notifications so you don't miss a single episode. We'll be seeing you next time on Roofing Road trips.

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