Thoughts from a 30-year Coatings Veteran - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Brady Kolden from Polyglass. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the video.

Intro: Welcome to CoatingsCast, the ultimate podcast dedicated to the science, art and innovation of roof coatings. It's time to roll up our sleeves, put on our lab coats and dive headfirst into the world of liquid protection that keeps your roofs in prime condition. The future of roofing is here and it's liquid, so don't miss out. This is CoatingsCast where every drop counts in the world of roof protection.

Karen Edwards: Hello, and welcome to this episode of CoatingsCast. My name is Karen Edwards and I am thrilled to welcome Brady Kolden from Polyglass. For this episode, we are going to hear thoughts from a thirty-year coatings veteran Brady, welcome to the show.

Brady Kolden: Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you and your audience. I'm looking forward to it.

Karen Edwards: Yeah, so tell us just a little bit about yourself and your industry history.

Brady Kolden: So, I started in this industry back in 1995. It was like my first real job, it actually goes back a little further than that as I think about it, but I started in the house paint and commercial coating side of the business and worked for a couple different companies. From there, I went to work for a company called United Coatings, which is still around and held by GAF. I spent nearly 20 years with them working on products that range from our roof coatings to our concrete stains, wall systems. I traveled almost every state in the US, Canada, made it as far away as Guam to do project inspections and helped with the contractor mainly. I've always had a contractor focus. I believe it's important to have hands-on with your contractor. 2014, a gentleman by the name of Todd Homa gave me the opportunity to come over to Polyglass and help them build something new. Our coatings line was just kind of getting rolling at that time and I accepted the challenge and I enjoyed my time here. It's been a great company to work for.

Karen Edwards: And when did you join the Polyglass team?

Brady Kolden: 2014. So, I'm going on 10 years with them. This is my 10th year.

Karen Edwards: The third of those 30 years with Polyglass, congrats.

Brady Kolden: Thank you.

Karen Edwards: So, tell us a little bit about Polyglass.

Brady Kolden: So Polyglass was founded originally in Italy. In 1992, they opened their first plant in the US in Fernley, Nevada where they focused on modified roles, our underlayments such as MTS, which is a metal tile underlayment. In 2007, they opened their first plant in Florida and at that time, we were kind of in the coatings business, coatings market, but we were private labeling from other companies. In 2008, as part of that plant, they opened up a coating line and we started making all of our stuff inside as far as our white line and our black line, our acrylics and our asphalts. In 2008, our first full year production, we shipped a whole $350,000. So really, it was just our birth into this segment.

Karen Edwards: Sure, wow. So, I mean, this as we know is a growing segment of the roofing market and I know that everybody wants to get on board and there are some challenges that are unique to liquid applied roofing, commercial roofing and there's a lot of different materials and systems and this is just another system, but there are some unique challenges. Let's talk a little bit about those and why they can be challenging.

Brady Kolden: So, I've always viewed our fluid applied systems as a very important hands-on product. It's a technical installation, we don't supply a finished good. And when I say finished goods, it's not a roll of modified asphalt, it's not a roll of TPO or PVC. We supply buckets to build that membrane on the roof. So to be a good salesperson in our business, I believe you have to understand the products, you have to understand the substrates that you're dealing with and the installation practices. And from there, once you have a grasp on that, you can help the contractor make the right recommendation for the roof. Because honestly, every roof has a little bit of something different. No two roofs are the same, even if it's a modified roof, you've got different penetrations, you've got different detailing that needs to be done. It's a hands-on approach sale rather than just out the door. There's not many projects that a good salesperson doesn't touch at least once during the project. They're involved from start to finish.

Karen Edwards: What are some of the... You say salesperson, but really, you've got to understand the technical side, right?

Brady Kolden: Yes. So I consider our salespeople as technical salespeople, I've always viewed it as that. There's a lot of people that think sales is just sales. You have a product, you sell it. But at the end of the day, you need to know what that product's going to do and how it's going to perform in different climates, in different situations, different membranes. And there's times when you have to say, this isn't going to fit what we're selling. Again, look at a roof. I always look at projects from start to finish. What's our result going to be 5, 10, 15 or 20 years down the road? Are we trying to get this roof just to last for five years? Because if we are, then we approach it differently than or if we're trying to get 20 years out of it. And sometimes you have to look at roofs and go, "You know what? I can't give you 20 years on that roof. It's just not a good fit for you or us."

So a level of honesty comes into play. I had a client yesterday, in fact, that called me and we were talking about a roof and we went through the situation. Originally, they wanted the product to be a ten-year type of system. We sat down and looked at Google Earth so we could see the images, see what the roof was doing, see what the standing water looked like. And from there, we decided that if the customer wants a 10-year roof, we can provide an option. But if they want to go more than 10 years, it's not a good fit for a coated roof because on top of the coating, there's going to be a solar system on top of it. And when you start talking about overburden, if there's a problem underneath the solar, it becomes a bigger challenge for the building owner and the contractor repair. So sometimes a system like our modified Polyfresko would be a better fit for that roof than coating it.

Karen Edwards: Okay. So you've seen companies like Polyglass shifting to help contractors and building owners make the right decision for their roof. And they're doing this through people like yourself who have been in the industry for so many years and understand that challenge. So what did that support look like when you said you got a call yesterday, was that from the contractor or was it from the building owner and how easy is it for them to get assistance from you?

Brady Kolden: My contractors that I work with directly, this was from the contractor. The people I work with myself are typically national accounts. They're doing stuff outside of just one city, one state and I'm pretty accessible. I get a lot of guys that will call me seven days a week because our roofing crews don't stop because it's Saturday and Sunday. So for me, I try, my goal is always to respond to emails the same day. And if I get a call from a contractor, because I know the numbers, right? If it's important, they don't call me on Saturday or Sunday. And so, I respond.

And a lot of our people are like that. We have some key people in different areas of the US that if somebody calls them on a weekend, they're going to answer the phone just because they know at the end of the day, we don't want a bad installation either. Polyglass wants quality roofs out there because quality roofs create other opportunities with other contractors. So I feel like our company, with the people that I have that work with me, we're very accessible and we want to help make sure things are done right.

Karen Edwards: A question on my behalf is what kind of training do you offer to contractors who are wanting to get more into this type of roof system installation? What does that support look like?

Brady Kolden: We do what we call Polyschools and the Polyschools are focused on of our products. And it's typically a day and a half. The first day covers everything but coatings the second day rolls into coatings. So on top of that, we also do just training with contractors. I'll bring technical people in, even though I'm a tech guy, I'm not really a tech guy, if that makes sense. We've got guys that do that day in and day out and work with the products. And I know how all the products function, but to do the proper detail around a pipe, it's probably not going to look as pretty as a guy that actually knows how to do it and does it every day.

So we'll do specifically targeted, like a contractor called me and said, "Hey, I've got 10 guys in the office and we want to do training for those people. Can you bring somebody in?" We'd go in, we'd set up some decks so that we could do samples there and we'd actually get brushes and some product and let them do some playing around with the product, see how it works, see how it applies and spend the day with them and then open the door for questions. And we do a really good job with our training and support.

Karen Edwards: Excellent. Good to hear. So 30 years is a long time in the industry. You've probably seen things come and go and what kind of trends are you seeing out there?

Brady Kolden: And I really struggled with that a little bit when I was thinking about this podcast because there's a lot of positive trends going on in the industry. The one trend I see that honestly drives me crazy is we continue to make the same mistakes. When a new player comes in, there's a belief that coatings are a fix-all for everything. It's the miracle in the bucket syndrome. And the fact of the matter is, if you're going to do a coating system, it's important to follow good roofing practices. There are certain substrates you just don't want to go over top of. And I always tell contractors because I get the call all the time, "Hey, have you seen this new product? I can put it on gravel roof." And my first comment is always, "Let's slow down and think about the process." Yes, I know it sounds good, and yes, I know there's a lot of gravel-built up roofs out there, but is this really the best opportunity?

Is this really what you want to do? Because it may not work. And I've seen a few that have worked in that situation, but for the most part, I've seen stuff come up in sheets and then you've got upset building owners and it gives a black eye to our industry. It makes people think, well, you're not really a system, you're just painting my roof. And that's not what we want to do. We want to create systems and we want to create systems that are going to last long-term for our customers and create less headaches for our contractors because the last thing a contractor wants is to be called back out to look at a roof and fix something.

Karen Edwards: Right. And the last thing the building owner wants is a problem with their that they just had fixed or restored or yeah, definitely.

Brady Kolden: Yeah. And I mean, it happens more often than not. And again, it's about finding solutions. I think coatings... Again, if you look at it about what's the best solution and does it follow good roofing practices, I think that's a great thing. I think when you start looking at, well, maybe it'll work. I don't know. I always get... I just worry about that. But the other thing that's really changed the industry since I've been doing this is when I started in '95, the bulk of the business was acrylic based silicones. While we had at United, we had all types of products from acrylics to silicones to your urethanes, asphalt products, acrylics kind of were the top of the line at that time. Urethanes have played into it earlier in the fluid applied industry, then it went to acrylics.

Silicones were just kind of taking off. But I'd say in the last 10 years, silicones have really taken a large portion of the market share. Whereas 95% of what I sold was acrylics in my beginning years, I'd say now it's about 50/50 and there's some reasons for that. Silicones have less problems, they're less problematic for the contractor when water's standing on them. And there's not many commercial type of roofs that don't have some level of bonding water or birdbath. So that's been a good change that's helped the industry because it's grown. It's created more opportunities for us for sure.

Karen Edwards: It's interesting because if you're on any of the social media groups for roofing contractors and there's often discussions about acrylic versus silicone and some people love one, hate the other, vice versa. I often hear it's because of once you put down silicone, you can't put anything else down. So well, you're about 50/50. Is it going to depend on... What are some of the factors that can help you decide whether silicone or acrylic is the right choice for that building?

Brady Kolden: So, the first part that comes into play with that is what is the contractor's comfort level? Because they're going to imply to you what they feel good about using and what they don't feel good about using. And like you said, some contractors believe silicone is the only way to go. Some people feel acrylic is the only way to go. So it's important to always listen to our customer, hear what they want, because they're going to tell you what they want. And then when we start looking at the job, I look at what does the standing water look like on this roof? And there's situations where in a TPO restoration is a great example. You have lots of little birdbaths on that roof. It's just the nature of the product.

So when I look at that and see that level of water, let's say that 35, 40% of the roof holds some level of water, I automatically lean towards a silicone product just because I know from past experience that if they just go up and coat that roof that without any fabric reinforcement, you're probably going to have some delamination in those birdbaths. So the first thing I always look at when I look at the roof is the water. And then from there, you start looking at what is the contractor's equipment look like? Does he have the ability to spray silicone? Do they only have the ability to spray acrylic? Because that plays into what product they can even get on the roof.

Or maybe we start looking at, do we recommend this is a rolled application versus a sprayed application or what I like to call pump and dump, where they'll actually put the pump on the ground and put a ball valve on the end of the hose and they just pump it up there and they will squeegee the stuff out to level it out. Silicones offer the advantage of, they can be a one-coat application where acrylics are always going to be a multilayer. The other thing that plays into it is weather. Silicones have a much larger window for installation than acrylics do if you don't have 50 degrees in rising with acrylics, I really avoid that situation, and I prefer not to get much below 65 because it's not whether it dries, it's when it's going to dry and whether or not water sits on it. Because a lot of times in those cooler temperatures, you get night moisture that'll sit on top of the acrylics and that causes problems.

Whereas silicone, I've been on jobs, and this goes back to good roofing practices. What I'm going to give you is an example, wasn't really a great roofing practice, but the contractor was doing it. He sprayed right up until it rains. And as long as the deck is dry, you're okay. But when that water sits on top of the silicone, it really dimples it a little bit, but it doesn't damage it. Silicone is a moisture-cured product, so it needs moisture in the air. You just don't want gallons of moisture in the air. So again, first thing I do is look at the contractor, look at what he likes to use and look at what his abilities are and those things are what leads my first key thoughts on what we should do with that roof, if that makes any sense.

Karen Edwards: Sure, yeah, absolutely. I wanted to talk a little bit about coatings versus liquid applied versus liquid applied systems. We've a lot of different names, I feel. So what are the differences or are we just using a word interchangeably?

Brady Kolden: I think it really is a word that's interchangeable. I think when we talk about that stuff is... And coatings are coatings, right? The first thing that everybody thinks about is, so you're painting my roof. Well, not really. But with that being said, there are situations where we'll just do a coated roof. And a coated roof is typically we're just looking for UV protection. It's a newer roof. We want to put in a good way, and this is kind of in a term that I've heard for the last 20 years, we're putting sunscreen on. It's no different than you and I put sunscreen on our bodies. It's a sunscreen to reduce early or premature wear on the roof surface.

And that's typically more often leans to our modified roofs where they put a 20-year system on, but they're looking at 25 years out of it. They'll put a sacrificial layer of coating down. And that coating, depending on again, how thick you put it down, is going to last a different length. But typically like three gallons, you're going to get 10 years before it's really wearing and getting down to the surface. And that's going to be climate dependent. Arizona is probably a little harsher than Washington state is, but Washington state, you're going to see more water than you're going to see sun. So that plays into it. But when we start talking about liquid applied versus liquid applied systems, I view systems as, again, going back to it's a technical approach. We're looking at the roof as a whole. What is the goal? Is it 5, 10, 15 or 20 years?

And what type of system can we build with the components that we can supply to make that roof last the life that we're telling the building owner, it will? But at the end of the day, we can build the best system out there, but if it doesn't fall back onto the building owner to maintain it's like your car. I tell people, if you don't change the oil on your car, how long is it going to last? So systems as a whole, I believe in them. I think they work, they work well, but it's not simply just applying a coating. You're not just painting the roof. You're building something that fits the building that we're working on or the project we're working on.

Karen Edwards: Great. Now I want to talk about, since you have been in this industry for so long, we touched on it earlier, but do you see things that maybe are kind of coming back? It seems like just in life in general, things go out of style, come back in style. And so, in the roofing world, and specifically in terms of the liquid applied or the coatings, what kind of things are you seeing reemerge?

Brady Kolden: The biggest re-emergence seen in the last probably 24 months as the use of polyurethane spray foam as a system. And that's a system that goes over existing roofs typically. There are ways to do it over new systems as well, but with the energy conservations that we're faced with and everybody wants to lower their bills and create a safer environment. I had a couple projects last year where building owners absolutely wanted to cool the inside of the building down for workers. The use of polyurethane foam is coming back. And part of that is probably because as systems have grown in expense, polyurethane foam has got more expensive, but it's become more competitive also.

And when these building owners start looking at ways to insulate their building, it's hard for them to do it from the inside on an existing roof. So the most effective way to do that is from the outside. And we'll put anywhere from two to... I've had a couple projects go four inches last year of foam. So you're adding an extra R-12-ish to R-12 to R-24, depending on how thick you put that foam down. So that really has been a growing market, and California is actually one of the states that has said if you re-roof a building, you have to add insulation to it and bring it up to a certain R-value. So that's really helped that business grow, and it's a great system. Polyurethane spray foam is probably one of my favorite systems out there because if it's handled correctly, if it's really maintained, it will last the life of the building. It's great stuff.

We have, our product is called PolyPUF. We do coat it with either PolyBrite 70 or our PolyBrite 90 silicone, one of the two. And oftentimes we'll granulate those roofs as well. And the reason we granulate them is a couple different things. The granules work as a sacrificial layer for UV protection, and it also lowers animal damage. You would be amazed how birds will get up on some of these roofs and peck the heck out of them. So it's been fun because I like polyurethane spray foam systems. I did a couple of really nice projects last year, one in Reno and one in Sacramento that were fantastic.

Karen Edwards: And do you get to hear the feedback afterward from those systems? Like, wow, yeah, it's much more comfortable inside the building, or is it kind of like, well...

Brady Kolden: It's limited because typically if I get feedback, it's something bad.

Karen Edwards: No.

Brady Kolden: Yeah. So the feedback really is when you get another opportunity with the same client, that's where the feedback is. It obviously is working because they want to do it again, and then they want to do it again. So that's where the feedback comes from is you provided a successful system and they're happy with it. So let's do another one.

Karen Edwards: Okay. So what are some of the things in the industry that don't change because they work?

Brady Kolden: The importance of good roofing practices, again, that just doesn't change. The core chemistries, the acrylics, the silicones, the urethanes, the spray foam, the basic, it's amazing to me how much is the same from nearly 30 years ago. The same key resins are used in our acrylics as are used today. Yeah, they get better over time. They tweak them and make them better, but they're still called the same exact thing as they were 30 years ago. So the industry, it's funny how it doesn't change, but it does change. I mean, there's little tweaks in things, but it's not, it's still the same old industry it was 30 years ago. The big difference now is it's just everybody wants to be involved in coatings, and that's been the driver. Really, that's been the greatest thing for the coating business. It's not great for competition because it creates more competition for all of us. However, it makes our pie bigger. Our pie went from being this big to now it's as big as you want to make it.

Karen Edwards: Right. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity and it's evidenced by the number of people getting into offering coatings, even whether that's manufacturers, contractors, whatnot. It's nice though, to be part of a company like Polyglass that has that proven track record of success since 1995.

Brady Kolden: Right. It's been a lot of fun, and Polyglass has grown a lot since I've been here. When I first started from where we're at now, I mean, we've started... Not only do we have our plant in Florida, we have a standalone plant in Phoenix, we're expanding our plant in Fernley to take on some of our asphalt products. So, it's been a great growth path from where we went at 350,000 our first year to being a multi-million-dollar coatings business with two plants, one that's dedicated and bringing on another one at sometime in the next one to two years for BlackLine products. I think it's a great growth path. Our ownership supports it all the way from Mapei down, so you can't really ask for much more. If people are supporting you, that's what you need.

Karen Edwards: Right. And it wouldn't continue to grow if it was not doing the job that it was meant to do.

Brady Kolden: Right, exactly.

Karen Edwards: So, before we wrap up, just having been with your background and your experience, do you have any advice for contractors that are looking to get into coatings?

Brady Kolden: It's really important to understand not every roof should be coated. I think that's probably one of the first things I would tell somebody. And I can tell you in the last 10 days, I've walked away from probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000 feet of roofs. Now, we're trying to get modified products on them, but just the situation, they're not good candidates. And I think it's important to be honest with your contractor, with your building owner, that not every roof should be coated. Understand that every roof is different, whether it's a modified roof or metal roof or TPO. There's always going to be slight things that you have to change in the spec. Don't be afraid to call me or one of our people for a spec for every job because every job's got slight tweaks.

The basic spec is the same, but just be aware that it's okay to call and ask questions. I think it's really important to always ask questions, and again, follow good roofing practices. If we don't want to build a pond liner, we're not in the business of pond liners. If there's standing water, they're standing water. Let's address that. And then I think the most important thing is to find a partner that you can really work with that you trust, that has salespeople that are going to be there to support you, whether it's on the phone or on the job. Partner with somebody that's going to back you if things go bad, partner with somebody that's going to be there to help you when you need help. I think that those are the keys. Those four pieces are the keys to success in this business as a contractor.

Karen Edwards: And I'm talking to a guy right here, his name's Brady Kolden, who can give you that help and-

Brady Kolden: Absolutely.

Karen Edwards: ... get you pointed in the right direction. Brady, this was a great conversation. I want to thank you so much for being here today, and I want to encourage all of you to visit coatingscoffeeshop.com, Polyglass has a full directory on there with our contact information, with information about our products, links with how to get ahold of them. So if you're thinking about it, now's the time. We're getting into full-blown roofing season here throughout the US and don't wait. You'll get started and wonder why I didn't do this five years ago. Thanks, Brady. It was a pleasure to talk with you. Thanks for being here. I appreciate your time.

Brady Kolden: I appreciate being here, it was great. The opportunity is very... I appreciate it a lot, Polyglass and I... It's important that we're out there. We want to be leaders in this industry, so thank you so much.

Karen Edwards: Yes, thank you. And thank you all for listening. Be sure to follow us on social media. Listen to future episodes on your favorite podcast platform. We are out there, and we will see you next time. Bye-bye.

Brady Kolden: See you. Thanks.

Outro: Thanks for joining us on this coating adventure. Stay tuned for more episodes. And in the meantime, be sure to follow us on all social media to stay up to date with all things roof coatings. Until next time, stay coated. For more information, go to coatingscoffeeshop.com.