Stories From The Roof - Cheryl Chapman - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Cheryl Chapman from Empire Roofing. You can Read the interview below or Listen to the podcast.

Megan Ellsworth: Welcome to Stories From The Roof from rooferscoffeeshop.com, where we tell the stories of roofing professionals from around the globe.

Hello everyone. My name is Megan Ellsworth here at rooferscoffeeshop.com, and I am back for a Stories From The Roof podcast. I love these. It's so great to hear everyone's experiences in roofing, how they got to be here because once you're here, you're here forever. So today I'm with Cheryl Chapman. Hi Cheryl. How are you doing?

Cheryl Chapman: I'm good. How are you doing?

Megan Ellsworth: I'm doing well. Excited to hear your story. So let's just dive right in and have you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you.

Cheryl Chapman: Sure. So Cheryl Chapman, Empire Roofing. My office out of our Fort Worth office, I'm the GM here. I've been in roofing for about 22 years. So forever. I was thinking about that this morning and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so old.

Megan Ellsworth: I know. Experienced.

Cheryl Chapman: Yes, that's the word. Experienced. So yes, I've been in the industry for a long time. My parents started Empire Roofing in 1982, so it's a year older than I am. I started working for the company probably as early as I clean toilets or say my ABCs to file things for my mother. So yeah, I've done anything from answering phones to then collections, accounts receivable, service and then I went to school for marketing, so I rebranded the company several years ago and then got into estimating and then sales, and then here I am. So now I get to deal with a little bit of everything in everybody's department. So yeah, that's kind of a click notes version of just how I got here.

Megan Ellsworth: That's awesome. That's amazing. Wow. 22 years. Yes, absolutely. Experienced, not old.

Cheryl Chapman: That's right. That's right.

Megan Ellsworth: So, who taught you about roofing?

Cheryl Chapman: So, we have a lot of really great teachers here. Obviously, my dad was always on the production side, so he taught me the roofing side of the business alongside our VP of sales. And then we have a VP of estimating that taught me obviously how to estimate. So on the field side and the sales side, those three people have been very instrumental in teaching me that side of the business. As far as the office side of the business and the personnel and just everything that goes on inside of an office. Obviously, my mother attributed to that big time and just watched her over the years, what she did and how she handled different situations.

So I would say all in all those few people, but throughout the years, there's been several amazing men in the industry that have really taken me under their wing and just encouraged me to get involved in MRCA or NRCA to really learn about the technology that's coming out and just roofing in general and just encouraging me to have a voice and to be at the table. So there's so many great people in the industry, so I don't think I could be where I am today without everybody.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So what was one of the most valuable lessons that you've learned in your career about roofing?

Cheryl Chapman: So, I think probably would be learning roofing. As a woman in the industry, I think that I haven't had a lot of bad experiences. I've been very blessed in that way, but I have had people where I've been on a roof and they're like, "Well, shouldn't you be in the office doing what your mother does?" And I get home and my mom's like, "Hey, toughen up." You got to learn the industry so that no one can ever say that to you because unfortunately, or fortunately, you learn the business where you can answer the questions and you can sit at that table and you're not at the table because you're a woman or you're so-and-so's daughter, you're there because you've earned it and you know the industry.

Yeah, I think just learning to work hard and ask questions, especially to the people that have been in the industry for so long. Take feedback, take criticism. Even though I hate that. You have to learn to be better. So yeah, I think just work hard.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, that's a lesson that everyone learns that one way or another other, it's a roundabout kind of thing. So I love this question because I think it's really interesting to look back on your past and say, maybe I wouldn't do anything differently, and maybe I would. So if you were to go back and start at the beginning of your career, would you do anything differently? Hard hitters.

Cheryl Chapman: Yeah. You know what? Honestly, I don't think that I would. I've really enjoyed everything that I've done. In my introduction, I went through all of the different jobs that I've had, and I don't think that I'd be as good of a leader if I hadn't experienced all of the different things that I've experienced, because I was out in the field coring a roof, or I was picking up the phone directing calls. And so I know that each position is very important to run an office. We can't do what we do without every single individual from the person picking up the phone to the person ordering the materials, to the guys in the field. Everybody plays a really important role. And so really just, yeah, I don't think that I would change anything. I think I've been very blessed, for sure.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great to hear. And that's nice to think about too. I wouldn't change anything. That's a great feeling to have.

Cheryl Chapman: For sure.

Megan Ellsworth: So, piggybacking off of that, what's one of the best things you've ever done for your business or for your career?

Cheryl Chapman: Probably as far as my office, just being very open to people coming in and giving their feedback, whether it's positive or negative, and really giving them a voice within the organization. I think that sometimes the older generation, we always did things a certain way, and that's fine, and it worked great, but giving some ownership to the people that are here that do the work, because I think it's good. I think just like me, I want to be successful and I want to make sure that what I'm doing is making a difference, whether it's here at work or out in the community. And so I think just giving people the opportunity to voice their opinion and help if there is something that we can be doing better, come to me, be open with me and talk to me.

And I think just having that open line of communication, even if it's an uncomfortable conversation, that's one of the things that I did whenever I became the GM, is just making sure that everyone knows that they can be open and upfront and have that conversation with me and not to be fearful of if it's an uncomfortable conversation or something that they think that I might not want to hear.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. As an employee, there's nothing better than feeling completely comfortable to walk into someone in leadership or your boss's office and say, Hey, I have something that I want to talk to you about. And it might still be hard, but they know that nothing bad is going to come from it. That's so great and good on you for doing that.

Cheryl Chapman: Well, yeah, and I think we're in a generation where we need to be having these conversations, and we need to make sure that people have a voice.

Megan Ellsworth: Absolutely.

Cheryl Chapman: Now, is every single time someone comes in here with an idea, I'm like, yeah, that's what we're going to do? No. But I think that it's good that they have the opportunity to come and voice that opportunity. Most of the time I'm like, sure, let's try it. Why not? An idea or a solution than to not come to me with anything, right?

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, absolutely. To not be afraid to do so. Yes.

Cheryl Chapman: Yes.

Megan Ellsworth: Actually, this goes with that, but in one word describe the most important trait in an employee or a coworker.

Cheryl Chapman: Dedicated. One word. Right?

Megan Ellsworth: One word. I always forget, I wait for people to continue, and I'm like, oh, no, I asked for one word. Dedicated. Yes. Love that. Do you want to expand a little bit on it?

Cheryl Chapman: Sure. I think it's so easy nowadays for people just to give up and quit. Even marriage. It's acceptable to get into marriage, and then if you don't get along, you can just get out of it. And I'm not super old, but I remember when there was a time where you got married and you really, really had to work at it. And getting a divorce was not an option. And I feel like we're in an era where people are so quick to just quit. If something goes wrong, you're like, oh, I'm just going to go try something else. I think employees that are dedicated and that are loyal, we're not perfect. Nobody's perfect. There's not one person in this entire world that's perfect. And so, hey, let's try to make the place better and work at that instead of one thing going wrong and you hit the road. And so I've been very blessed with extremely loyal and dedicated employees, and I think it makes a difference in just the culture and just really our success.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. So true. That really is true. I think especially going through a global pandemic, it just has changed people. And so finding that dedication in co-workers and employees is really nice and refreshing a lot of the time.

Cheryl Chapman: For sure.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. So I know your dad and your mom have both been your boss at one point or another, so hopefully they're not listening to this, but the best boss, who's the best boss you've ever had, and what did they teach you?

Cheryl Chapman: I think it would depend on when in my life and what I was doing, because there were definitely times where I could say one boss was better than another boss at any given time. And then there was sometimes where it's like, oh, this boss was very awful, and they really pushed me. So both of my parents pushed me, and I didn't always like that, but I think now that I'm an adult and actually running the business, I'm like, oh, well, that's probably why. Because I get the respect. At least I think I have the respect of the people that have been here because they saw that it wasn't just handed over.

So the best boss, I think that, like I said, I think every single boss that I've had has been a really good boss. I don't think that I can pinpoint just one of them being the best ever because it really depends on the season. If I pick one time in my life, I've always had more than one boss. So I feel like if I pick one given time, I might say, oh, yeah, my mom was definitely the best boss, or our VP of Sales was definitely my best boss, or my dad was definitely my best boss.

But then if I fast forward at six months or a year, I'm like, oh, they're awful. I do not want to work for them. And I think it's with anything, you always have times in your career and in new life where those relationships of your leaders, you just don't always see eye to eye. And there's always going to be some type of conflict at some level, at some point in your life. And I think you just have to either have that tough conversation or you have to just be able to continue to go on and do your job and be respectful and figure out how to deal with it. And I've always learned that it does get better. And as you get older, you learn how to have those conversations and solve those issues better than maybe I did when I was younger. So I think it's just all wisdom as you get older.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, absolutely. It always comes with time.

Cheryl Chapman: Yes.

Megan Ellsworth: So, we're going to pivot here. This episode today is sponsored by Johns Manville, a great manufacturer with great products. How important is a relationship with your manufacturer, someone like Johns Manville?

Cheryl Chapman: Oh, it's very important. It's very important because our clients look to us to be the expert. And so we have to make sure that we're keeping up with the trends of all of the different types of materials. We have to make sure that they're working and they're not failing. We have to make sure that we're able to give a good warranty. And if a problem comes up, we need to be able to fix the issue, whether it's workmanship or on the manufacturer side. And those good relationships are definitely helpful. And so we want to make sure that we have good working relationships with everybody so that if a problem ever arises, which on occasion they do, even if you're a really good contractor, they're going to come up or a really good manufacturer, they're going to come up. But I think just having that great relationship so that you can fix the problem and make sure the client is happy.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. How important is ongoing training and continuing education to you, and how does your manufacturer help with that?

Cheryl Chapman: So, I think it's very important. We obviously want to make sure the guys in the field are trained to apply whatever system that we're trying to install. I was at NRC last week, and I want to say that there's over a million different systems between all of them is in RoofSnap. Yeah, I think it's in RoofSnap. And that's crazy to me. And so whenever you think about that, our guys really have to know different systems, and they have to know how to apply them. So I think it's really important to make sure that they have the training that they need to install the system that you've sold to the client. So continued education is crucial, and here at Empire, we make sure that we're staying up to date with all of the new trends and the new applications with all the manufacturers. So no, super important.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. Yeah. Relentless sun, torrential rain, severe heat and cold. Commercial roofs face no shortage of extremes. And the true test of any roofing system is how it stands up to these conditions over a long lifespan. The Johns Manville PVC formulation has proven itself time and again, protecting airports, manufacturing facilities, educational buildings, stadiums and retail structures across the continent, and continuing to pass the test of time. Johns Manville offers one of the most comprehensive guarantees in the roofing industry. That's the advantage you can expect from a longtime dependable leader with the financial backing of Berkshire Hathaway.

So just a few questions left. This has gone by so quickly, but what makes you smile when you think about your job?

Cheryl Chapman: The people. For sure. The people.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. I love that. I love that. How long have you been in this position at Empire?

Cheryl Chapman: April of 2019.

Megan Ellsworth: Amazing.

Cheryl Chapman: So, a couple years.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah. So they're your people, and they were before, but now they're like your people.

Cheryl Chapman: They're my people, yes. I love all of them. And yeah, I feel like everybody's my family. And I was just talking to someone earlier, it's like, it's great, but then when they're happy, you're happy. When they're sad, you're sad. So sometimes it's like getcha you, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. That's what I love too about family businesses and small businesses. It really is a family and their hardships are your hardships. That's so true.

Cheryl Chapman: For sure.

Megan Ellsworth: So, I know that there are always a lot of people that are new to roofing that listen to this podcast. What tips, if any, do you have for new people starting out in the roofing industry?

Cheryl Chapman: Work hard. Show up on time. Depending on your position, especially sales and estimating, there's going to be some stuff that you have to do at home. And don't be one of those employees that are like, well, when I leave here, there's no more. But then they want to get paid all the big bucks. I think that just like the guys in the field, they have to continue with continued education. I expect my sales and estimating team to know the trends and understand the applications and understand the roofing part of it. So I think just making sure you're showing up and you're willing to work hard. I have no patience for people that want to come in here and make what our VP makes, and they've been here for a year. It takes a long time. In our office, we say it takes 10 years for you to really, really know roofing, and so be patient and give yourself grace because I think we're in a society of instant gratification. We want everything to be Amazon, and tomorrow we get what we want and we have the knowledge that we need, but that's not reality.

And so I think just giving yourself time and making sure that you're working hard, but give yourself grace because you'll get there, but it's going to take hard work and dedication.

So yeah, I think that would be my tidbit of advice.

Megan Ellsworth: I couldn't agree more. I love how you said there are people that have been working a year and they want to get paid like a VP or I think that's just a sentiment that maybe all of us have experienced. You're young and you think you know everything. And I've been around roofing my whole life, and I've been in roofing for five years, and I still, I know nothing. There's always room to grow. For sure.

Cheryl Chapman: Yeah, me either. I feel like I go to IRE and I'm like, oh, okay. I've never seen this before, or I've never heard of this. There's always new things happening. When I was estimating, the joke here at the office was if there's going to be something that nobody's ever seen in our 30, 40 plus years of experience, she's going to find it. That's okay. We all figured it out.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah.

Cheryl Chapman: Yeah. We all figured it out. But there's always going to be something new, and sometimes it's challenging and sometimes it's fun. The good thing is there's never a dull moment. There's always something new and something that you've never seen before.

Megan Ellsworth: Yeah, there's always something to learn. That's something you can count on. So this is our last question. Thank you Cheryl for chatting with me. This has been really eye-opening. Really fun. I learned something. And our last question is, how long have you been following Roofers Coffee Shop, and what's your favorite thing about RCS?

Cheryl Chapman: So, I've been following you guys since inception.

Megan Ellsworth: Amazing.

Cheryl Chapman: Like I said, I've known your mom forever and ever and ever. And I remember having the conversation when it was a concept, and so just seeing how it's grown over time. I think that you guys are doing a great job. I like that you guys are getting engagement with people all across the industry. So no, I think it's wonderful, and I'm so happy that you guys are doing what you're doing, and I hope that you have continued success and any way that I can help, I'm happy to.

Megan Ellsworth: Oh, likewise. That's so nice. Thank you, Cheryl. That's so kind. For everyone out there listening, go to rooferscoffeeshop.com. You can find the Empire Roofing directory on there, as well as the Johns Manville directory to learn more about Empire, Cheryl and Johns Manville. Go check it out. Go look at the classifieds, and we'll be seeing you next time on Stories From The Roof.

Cheryl, thank you so much. This has been a blast.

Cheryl Chapman: You're welcome. Yes, thank you.

Megan Ellsworth: Thanks for listening to Stories from The Roof from rufuscoffeeshop.com. Make sure to subscribe and leave a review.