Selling Total Cost of Ownership to Property Owners - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Jason King of DaVinci Roofscapes. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Hello everyone. Welcome to another RLW - Read Listen Watch from RoofersCoffeeShop. My name's Karen Edwards, and I'm your host for today. Before we get started, I do want to go over just a couple of housekeeping items. This webinar is being recorded and it will be available on our website, usually within one to two days, so feel free to go back and watch it again to refresh yourself or share it with some coworkers.

And today, thank you to DaVinci Roofscapes, we are going to be talking about selling the total cost of ownership to property owners. And I'm going to introduce our panelists today. First of all, let me start by welcoming Jason King. Jason, welcome.

Jason King: Hi. Thanks, Karen.

Karen Edwards: I'm glad you're here. Tell us about what you do and a little bit about your background there with DaVinci.

Jason King: Okay. So I'm based in Western Pennsylvania and West Virginia. I cover those markets for DaVinci. I've been with the company for about three years now. So I spend a lot of time working with contractors like Jason and architects, property owners, commercial property owners. I grew up in the building industry. That's my background. My dad was a general contractor. I've always worked really in exterior building products.

So I spent quite a few years with ASEC building products, Georgia-Pacific Corporation and now DaVinci, so selling the total cost to ownership. And the discussion we're having today is very applicable to background, if you will.

Karen Edwards: Wonderful. Well, we're glad that you are here. And our second Jason today, Jason Totin, please introduce yourself.

Jason Totin: Karen, thank you. My name is Jason Totin. I'm the owner of Totin Too, LLC: Roofing and Exterior in the Pittsburgh area. I too have been around the construction industry pretty much my entire life. My dad had a roofing company that he started when I was really young. I was out on job sites picking up trash and whatnot at a pretty young age and got up on my first project with my dad when I was about 14. And worked for him in summer breaks, spring breaks, Christmas breaks, stuff like that to make a little money.

And after graduating college, went to work for him full time and worked for him for about 10 years before my wife and I relocated to the Pittsburgh area where I started on my own and have been doing this here for about 13 years now.

Karen Edwards: Wow. So neither of you had a choice. You were destined to be in building and construction and roofing, more specifically. Well, we sure are glad that you're here. Before we dive into the topic, I do want to say that the chat is open, so feel free to say hi, tell us where you're watching from. And then while we're talking about stuff, I'll be dropping a couple of links, I'm going to try, in there to share some information with you. But let's get started.

Jason King, I want to get started with you in defining what exactly is the total cost of ownership, which can be compared to ROI in many ways, right?

Jason King: Yeah, absolutely. So the way we look at total cost of ownership or talk to customers about total cost of ownership, really when you look at exterior products, in particular roofing products, but this can really apply to really any aspect of exterior construction or even interior construction in a lot of ways, there's an initial cost involved with a project and we know a new roof is very expensive.

But going beyond that initial cost, it's really important to have a conversation with whoever you're working with or whoever that property owner is to really help them understand there's other criteria involved in that decision-making process, or there should be, if you will, when determining the products that make the most sense. So when we think about total cost to ownership, we're not only looking at the initial cost, but we're looking at the life cycle, the lifespan of those materials.

How long are they going to last? How are the aesthetics going to perform over time? Are these products going to hold color over time? How durable are they going to be? What are the performance attributes that are involved that may benefit that property owner over time? Warranty. You really need to take all those things into account to really understand and talk about that total cost of ownership. And I'll just use one quick little example.

So with a composite roof, it's a big investment initially. And in a lot of cases, that could be maybe two to two and a half, three times the cost of an asphalt roof, let's say, for example, but let's just do some quick math. Let's say that you needed to put a roof on your house today and you got an estimate for an asphalt roof, and let's say that's $20,000 just to make the math simple. And oh, we really like the look of the composite product that we're looking at. That's really nice, but it's so expensive.

Well, but the thing is that asphalt roof, you may need to replace that roof in 15 or 20 years, whereas if you were working with a composite and if that's going to last 50, 60 years, by the time you've replaced your roof a second time, let's say 20 years out and you take into account inflation, price increases, increased costs of late cost of labor, that roof may cost you $40,000 20 years from now. And then there's the potential that you may have to replace it even again in another 20.

So when you really take those costs into account, that total cost of ownership for the composite product is going to be a lot less than some of the alternatives that are out there. So that's what we mean by that, is really looking at that whole life cycle and what the value is during that long duration that you're going to get out of the composite products.

Karen Edwards: There's more to it than just a price tag. So can you just talk a little bit about other ways and other considerations for, I don't want to say savings, but that return on investment? Things like maintenance. You won't have those maintenance costs. What about insurance savings? Can you speak to that a little bit, Jason King?

Jason King: Yeah. One of the big drivers behind composite is going to be appearance, but to get to your question, there's a lot of attributes that go along with these. And composite roofs, they're going to increase the curb appeal, they're going to increase the property value in a lot of cases. There's an inherent aesthetic value to putting these types of roofs because of the architectural integrity that's involved.

But you're selling a roof that has low maintenance or virtually no maintenance whatsoever. There are markets throughout the country, especially this past couple years, where the storms are just getting worse and worse and there's insurance companies that are denying homeowners coverage if their exterior products don't meet certain performance criteria.

And whether that be against wind, hail, storm damage, wildfires, that type of thing, you've got a strong warranty, a very strong warranty with most composites, so there's a real value there as well. So I don't know if that answers your question.

Karen Edwards: It does, and I think this is what this slide that I should have advanced it a little earlier, but we're talking about how total cost of ownership can be a selling tool because you mentioned it is that investment for a lifetime. It's got the low maintenance, it's got some insurance discounts. I'm going to drop a link in here just sharing some information, some real world examples where this happened for people and then the premium aesthetic that really lasts. I think that's really important.

And I want to make sure now, Jason Totin, that we hear from you because this is what you're doing every day, is talking to your customers about this. And I'd like to hear from you what that looks like.

Jason Totin: One of the things I hear the most when speaking to a potential new customer is, I want something that's going to last a long time and I don't want to have to do any maintenance on it. And let's face it, mother nature is a tough opponent. There aren't many products out there that you could truly call maintenance-free. Composites are about as close as it gets. When it comes to various roofing products, you've got just your natural weathering.

In an asphalt situation, the asphalt breaks down, the granules wear off, natural slate and tile can crack. They break as they heat up and cool and they expand and contract and crack. Metal products can rust over time, paint peels and that's all before you factor in wind or items like that, wind or hail. The composite products, when talking to a customer about the total cost over time, nothing can really touch this stuff.

Insects are not going to bore into it. Mold and algae aren't going to grow on it. There's no painting. If it does get dirty, it's easily cleanable by simply power washing it. If you have an upper story to your home or building, the thing that I hear the most is if the windows need to be cleaned on these upper stories, that people either won't go up on these areas for fear of damaging the roofing surface or they go up there and they do do damage to the roofing surface. All of these things are covered with a composite roof system.

And then speaking back to what Jason King was saying regarding getting two, three roofs for the price of one, the math makes sense. And when you lay it out simply exactly like Jason did, essentially a $20,000 asphalt shingle roof, for example and maybe it's 40 for a composite, but when you break that down, the cost of that shingle roof may end up being $90,000 by the time this one wears out, a composite wears out.

So you've replaced the roof two or three times at 90K when you factor in inflation, material and labor increases when you may have invested 40K initially. And when you break that down, you've basically saved $50,000. Then you factor in the no maintenance. Really what I tell people with composites, they ask, "Well, what do we have to do for maintenance?" And there's really nothing other than keeping your debris off the roof, and maybe you got to check your caulking on flashings from time to time.

But other than that, I haven't had to do any sort of maintenance on a composite roof system outside of your simple sealants on a chimney or a wall here and there. It's one of the few products that gets as close as possible to maintenance-free and truly lasts a long time to the point where you're going to get at least two roofs out of it.

Karen Edwards: Wow. Yeah, all good points. And I want to move on to talk a little bit about a project that you worked on not too long ago that had some really unique... It was a unique situation, unique location, some unique history. Can you just dive in here and tell us all about the Shannopin Country Club?

Jason Totin: What a fun project this was. From start to finish, I was heavily involved with the decision-making process and this is a perfect example of what we're discussing here today. This was, first and foremost, a historical building. It is a historical building. It was built in the early 1920s. It's over 100 years old. It originally had a natural slate roof on it. It was replaced about 25 years ago with a standing seam metal roof.

And over the last five years, that standing seam roof, believe it or not, had started to fail significantly in many locations. And when I sat down with the general manager, the board and the club president, it was similar to what I hear from all customers, we need and want something that's going to last a long time and we don't want to deal with problems for a very long time.

And when I was looking at the building, I pulled up old photos. I saw that it was originally a slate roof, and everything that they had just told me, immediately the DaVinci product is what popped into my head, is what might be best for them. And other roofing products would've been fine, but I had concerns about wind uplift and the pitch of this particular roof. It's a very steep roof, 14/12 pitch and it sits very high up, so it gets hit by wind almost constantly.

So I threw together a number for the DaVinci, even knowing that it was probably going to be beyond what they wanted to spend. And when I sat down with the board and the general manager and the club president, I basically put the number down in front of them and then explained what we just went over a little bit ago. I said, "This is why I think that this is good for you. Your wind protection is going to be about as high as it gets for any roofing product and you're going to get multiple, multiple roofs out of it and you're not going to have any issues, in my opinion."

And then the cherry on top was just the aesthetics of it. This just totally transformed this building from the standing scene to bringing it back to, number one, what it originally looked like and it totally transformed the building. But from the management standpoint, the total cost over time is what was most important to them and what ultimately led them to selecting this product.

Karen Edwards: Well, just looking at the photo, it's beautiful. And I love the copper accents. That's just stunning. I'm sure they were very happy with this.

Jason Totin: Yeah, the feedback has been, it's pretty neat. It's pretty neat. I've been doing this a long time, and the feedback on this one specifically has been, it's been great. It's great to hear. And the members are excited about it. They're really proud of what we did there.

Karen Edwards: You and the members should be because it just looks amazing. Incredible. Okay, so, Jason King, you talked a little bit earlier about some of the selling points for composite roofing, but let's talk about some of the other aspects that roofing contractors can be promoting to their customers when it comes to choosing a composite.

Jason King: So you're going to have phenomenal performance under harsh weather. So these roofs, they're going to be very low maintenance. With most composites, they achieve a Class 4 impact rating, I know DaVinci does in particular. They tend to be Class A fire rated products, which is really important, especially in commercial properties, multifamily properties, student housing. You really should be using a Class A fire rated product.

Not to mention there's markets across the country, for example, the West where they're in these wildfire urban interface regions where you have to have a Class A fire rated product even get insurance coverage. So composites are really taking off in a lot of the storm markets and those types of markets. But with that Class 4 impact rating, that Class A fire rating, 180 mile per hour wind uplift. So we have roofs that have blasted through 100 hail storms with no damage whatsoever.

We have examples of roofs that have been through half a dozen hurricanes over the years with no shingles or no tile coming off the roof, which is really impressive to be able to promote that type of product with those types of performance attributes.

Karen Edwards: I was going to ask a question, because we have up here, incredible color selection. And when we were talking the other day, you told me the number of colors and I was just like, "What?" How many was it?

Jason King: I think we have 49 colors that we keep on hand. So we have our standard set offering in each of our product categories with DaVinci, but we do also have the ability to do custom color blends and custom color for customers. And that really comes into play, especially when you start looking at historical type projects, projects where somebody really wants to maintain the historical integrity of a building, whereas somebody could choose several of our colors and we can make a custom blend for them that's really going to achieve that aesthetic criteria that they're trying to meet there.

So the historical review boards typically really enjoy working with DaVinci. But I would say those are going to be some of the strongest. You've got a strong warranty, these are limited lifetime warranties with these products. And we put a very strong coverage on labor and material on the front end of those warranties just to help reinforce our confidence in the performance of materials.

Jason Totin: If I could just interject real quick. On the subject of the custom colors, I actually utilized this with DaVinci about seven or eight years ago for a customer. Their home was well over 100 years old, very historic home and they had two wings that were built on after the main historical part. And they have a lot of trees and their branches are constantly falling, so they didn't want to put a natural slate roof on it.

And I didn't even know DaVinci offered this back then, but I got in touch with the office and they took over. I barely had to do anything. They worked directly with the customer and came up with their own blend, and we ended up matching pretty darn close to the existing structure. So I thought that was a really cool offering that they make.

Jason King: It's something very difficult to do with the natural slate in particular because it's not as readily available as it may have been years ago. You're limited to gray, green and black, if you will and you don't have much many options that are readily available and even semi-affordable outside of that. So it's definitely a nice benefit.

Jason Totin: In the colored slate, they only quarry the stuff at certain times of the year and it depends. The red slate is in this quarry, the purple slate's in this quarry. So it is tough to get the colors, at least in a timely manner. So that's definitely something I've run into on the natural side.

Karen Edwards: So I'm just curious, when you say color blends, I'm envisioning a lab and scientists mixing up special colors to produce this beautiful slate. Is that what we're talking about? Or is it just putting a pattern of different shades together to produce the look that's wanted? Can you explain that to me?

Jason King: DaVinci, for example, we do all of our own color and blending formulation in-house. So yeah, we do have some smart scientists working at the plant on everything that we do there, but really it's as simple as taking some of our color chips, laying them out against your existing fixed features on your home and that's typically what you're going to build your colors around because those are going to be features that you don't change on the home or the property owner's inevitably probably not going to change.

Select up the four to five colors and we collate in factory by size and color for the contractor. It helps take the guesswork out, makes the install go a little bit easier because then they're not thinking about sorting color and mixing color on site. But that's typically how that would work and it really doesn't add much to the lead times.

Karen Edwards: Excellent.

Jason King: Maybe an extra week.

Karen Edwards: Excellent. We don't have it up here on this slide, but I know that you offer, with the technology advancing the way it is today, a visualizer so someone could upload a photo of their home. I'm curious, Jason T, do you have a lot of customers that want to use that visualizer?

Jason Totin: I like to use it as a baseline. There are a lot of colors. These are expensive roofs, and the customer gets nervous about making the right selection for them. It's a big investment. I notice with almost every customer that that's where the tension, am I making the right decision with the color? I think the visualizer, they can go in and play with all of the colors, all of the mixes and then they can pick out three, four, five that I know I want these, I know I don't want these.

And then from there, I as the contractor can get them larger samples from there, but if they narrow it down. So the visualizer is an unbelievable tool to get the ball rolling, to help the customer at least initially start eliminating some of the color options out there.

Karen Edwards: All right. And we talked already about the minimal maintenance, we've talked about the potential for insurance discounts. And I think Jason, you mentioned when we were talking the other day, Jason T, that you sometimes have to tell the homeowner or the property owner to contact their insurance company and ask about it because they don't always know, right?

Jason Totin: Yeah, it's not always something that they think about. If I have a customer that has decided that they're going with a composite and if they're moving forward, I generally will remind them. I'm saying, "Hey, it's worth the call to your insurance company." Now, there are areas of the country where it's a no-brainer. Even some of these ratings are required to get insured. It's not so much in this area, although it seems to be trending that way a little bit more with the more hail that we're seeing.

But yeah, I definitely bring it up to the customer just saying, "Hey, give them a call. Tell them that this is what you're going to get for a fire rating and for a wind uplift rating. And the worst they can say is, no, you're not getting any discount." But that's not usually the case. I usually get feedback that they do get some sort of a discount.

Karen Edwards: Excellent. All right. And then I want to point out too, that Jason King, you mentioned the long lengthy warranty, but the fact that that warranty is transferable, I think is really important for when it comes to maybe resale of the home. Do you both find that to be true?

Jason King: I do. I think oftentimes you're talking to especially a homeowner in a lot of cases, where they may not be sure that they're staying there forever. I don't think anybody's ever really 100% sure that they're going to be in their house forever. And if they do go to sell that home, that's something that in your MLS listing, you can list as its tangible value. There's a transferable warranty with this roof, and that means something.

I think a lot of people, they buy a home and just don't even think about their roof and don't even think about, boy, I may need to replace this thing in five, 10 years. And they're not even budgeting for that. Whereas somebody buying a new home, boy, this thing has a limited lifetime warranty on it, warranty is transferring over to us. For me, I think that's tangible, that's something that's valuable, personally.

Jason Totin: I agree. I actually will go beyond that. I think it's incredibly important. I get feedback from previous customers all the time, and not just specific to composites, other products that I install, that the transferable aspect of a warranty, it's a heck of a selling point when you're selling a home. Let's face it, nobody likes going through a roof replacement on their house and most people aren't living in one location for 30, 40 years.

My grandparents did that, but that doesn't seem to be the way it is anymore. So the transferable warranty is a huge selling point, and I've gotten actual feedback from that from previous customers.

Karen Edwards: Excellent. And these are all great aspects that we've talked about, but I want to just go a little bit deeper into this peace of mind and the performance in bad weather. It just seems like every year, the weather gets crazier, right? There's a hurricane coming right now as we're recording this today in the Gulf headed for the US and it's November. And look what happened with Helene in North Carolina and we're seeing more hail, more severe weather.

So let's talk a little bit, Jason King, about the selling points of how this product can perform and protect that home or that property and building from this severe weather.

Jason King: I think it's really important, no matter what product you're choosing. Of course I'm a little bit biased to DaVinci product, but you want to make sure that the products that you're working with, they've been passed by Miami-Dade County, Florida. Those are some of the toughest wind regulations in the country due to just the sheer amount of hurricanes that blow through Florida. So if your product passes in Miami-Dade, you've got a good quality product that's going to perform really well under wind.

The Texas Department of Insurance does their own testing, and these are big examples of markets where you get drastic incentives by utilizing high-performing materials, composite materials. High winds, hurricanes, tropical storms, nor'easters. In your wildfire urban interface areas, you want to make sure it's a wildfire urban interface-stamped or approved product.

Meaning basically these products, if they're Class A fire rated, they're going to be self-extinguishing. So if embers from a wildfire, a burning branch, something drops on the roof, the material's going to self-extinguish itself and it's not going to transfer to the sheathing down into the actual home. The roof's actually going to help extinguish that fire.

Karen Edwards: I want to move on to Jason Totin because when we were talking the other day, you've worked with a lot of different products, including a lot of different composite products and you said something. I know Jason King, you work for DaVinci, of course you're biased. But Jason T, I like your perspective because you said something yesterday I thought was really powerful and that that you've walked away from jobs where another product was specked because you didn't really believe in that it was going to perform. You weren't comfortable standing behind that.

And so I'd like you to talk a little bit about the second half of the slide here with the performance and maybe why. What convinced you that DaVinci was the right product for your company to offer to its customers?

Jason Totin: This goes back to actually when I was in high school working for my dad during a summer. And I remember the roof specifically, we were putting on another composite roof. I won't name the name, but it was a product that's no longer in business. It was specked. We had nothing to do with the selection, and that was the case a lot when I worked for my father. He did a lot of work at universities, churches, commercial buildings where the decisions were already made. We were just called in to bid the project with whatever was specified.

And there were some issues. And really, from my father's perspective, it really ruined his trust for a while. But over time, I'd say about 20 years ago, close to 20 years ago, we started installing DaVinci. And I remember meeting with various reps at the time when I worked for my dad. I went and talked to various reps from different composite companies, manufacturers because we saw it was becoming more popular, it was more cost-effective than the natural products. We saw that this was the future.

And so part of my job was to meet and talk with them and ask them some very difficult questions, to be honest with you. From the beginning, even 20 years ago, DaVinci was the one that always impressed me the most. Now at this point, I've been installing it long enough, whether it was with my dad or now that I've been doing it on my own, I've installed enough of them and known that I've had zero issues on any of them.

To know that the product's good, the colors are good, the bones of the material are good, there's no curling. I've seen enough over time, those roofs have been sitting for a while, to have full trust with the product. And if I don't have full trust with something, I don't like problems any more than a customer does. I often joke with customers that there's only one person that doesn't want a problem on your roof more than you, and that's me.

And if I'm not comfortable with a product, I have said no, that I'm just not interested. Some people think I'm crazy, but that's how strongly I believe in this particular product.

Karen Edwards: Wow, that's great. Jason King, I think some of these features that we have listed up here are important to call out and explain why, like the virgin resins, the stabilizers, the color going the full way through. Can you talk a little bit about why that's important and it's important for performance and longevity?

Jason King: Yeah, absolutely. With DaVinci, one of the biggest selling points and things that we talk about on a regular basis is our material's made with all 100% virgin resin. So that affords us the ability, I think, to have superior quality control over a lot of the other materials that are available out there. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with them, but I think it's something that really sets ours apart.

Having the ability to use 100% virgin resin gives us the ability to really control quality and ensure that durability over time, that we're going to meet that performance criteria that the customer's expecting. So we don't want to see a portion of our roof weather at a different rate than another area of it because there is a higher percentage of recycled content in this area, but there isn't as much here.

And so that's really important to us. It's something we talk about on a regular basis. It also allows us to add color throughout the entire mix of the material. So when you cut through a piece, it's the same color all the way through. It's not a shell or a cap stock or something like that. It's not a coating on there, which is really nice. So I think that that really helps out there. All DaVincis are all going to be Class 4 impact rated as well.

Karen Edwards: Which is the highest impact rating that can be earned by a roofing material. And they shoot hail balls at these and test and make sure that they last. So that's a nice segue, I think, into sealing the deal. And Jason Totin, is there during the conversation, that magic moment when the customer is just like, "I get it, this makes so much sense." And what is that messaging? What does that look like that makes them want to sign up that contract?

Jason Totin: Sometimes we as contractors, we can get caught up in the jargon, the roofing jargon and we forget that customers don't necessarily always understand the words that we're using to describe something. And sometimes words are just words. They don't know if I'm telling the truth or if I'm just trying to make a sale.

The magic moment, the aha moment that I find, specifically to these products, is I will actually take pieces of the product with me and I will explain to them in common sense terms, like, touch this material and twist it, bend it, try to break it, try to cut it, put it on the ground and step on it, stomp on it if you'd like and now try it with this. And when they see it, it doesn't take a roofing professional to see that it's not just a selling point, it's the actual truth.

And that's usually the moment that I see, specifically with homeowners or potential customers that, okay, yeah, this is the real deal and we'd like to move forward with it.

Karen Edwards: I love that. I think being able to see it and touch it and feel it really makes a difference. People can, like you said, get it without having to understand the roofing terms that we sometimes get so caught up in. That's fantastic. We've talked a lot about the messaging behind selling composite roofing, the performance against the severe weather, the fire, the curb appeal, the aesthetics. It's going to last for decades. The color you get today is the color you have 25, 30, 40 years from now.

There's no maintenance, the strong resale value, I now want a DaVinci roof on my house. Maybe when it's due for that, I'll be choosing DaVinci. But I also want to move on a little bit and maybe hear from you, Jason T, about how does DaVinci help you sell? What kind of tools? How have they helped you find success?

Jason Totin: Well, first of all, their customer service is phenomenal. I get answers or responses almost immediately. And I always joke with Jason King, I probably irritate him when I'm constantly badgering him for sample bundles. Once a customer has decided to move forward, I like to make them a very large sample board so that they actually lays against their house. They can really see it.

And I know it's not easy for him to call up and say, "Hey, steal eight bundles of these," but he always makes it happen for me. He always has literature for me. I am not the best on a laptop or a computer, so he's done the visualizer for me. And he always ends every conversation with whatever you need, let me know. I've just really appreciated the relationship with them and the help that they've given me as a contractor.

That they understand the challenges that we have as a contractor, and they do everything they can to make my life easier, which is always a nice thing.

Karen Edwards: So Jason King, talk to me a little bit about why DaVinci makes the investment in supporting their contractors.

Jason King: I think that we want to make it as easy as possible for them and every opportunity that they have is an opportunity for all of us. Shannopin, for example, I expect that project, it turned out so beautifully, that's probably going to sell projects for Jay for many years to come would be the hope. So our intention really is from the inception of the project to the finish of the project, we want to be involved.

So we provide a lot of tools and support to help get you across finish line, if you will and help sell that project. And that can come in support in a lot of different ways, whether it's belying it up at a kitchen table with a property owner or meeting with a historical review board or whatever that is or it's providing samples, literature, technical support. We want to make sure that install goes perfect and we do a lot of things that help the homeowner.

We actually keep in-house project specialists that are really there to do anything that they can to help guys like Jason and the homeowner take that idea and turn it into something. So they'll work with them on color recommendations, hoping to get them initial sample boards, answering questions before they tend to pass that information on to either myself or potentially refer them to Jason or things along those lines. So it's really helpful to be able to do that.

Karen Edwards: I know we talked about the online visualizer, which is great, but as a homeowner and I'm not the best with matching colors and what's going to look good and I may put it through there and go, "I think that looks good. Does that go with this or that?" You guys actually have a color expert that is available.

Jason King: We do.

Karen Edwards: Tell me about that.

Jason King: Her name's Kate Smith, and she is on retainer with DaVinci, I believe, on a regular basis. She is our in-house resident color expert. And what Kate will do is if Jason sent me photos of a project that he's working on, we'll work with the contractor to, hey, get photos of the things that we can't change on the house, the fixed features on that home, the color of the mortar, the color of the stone, the color of the siding, let us know what they might change if they're going to change facial colors, if they're going to change window colors, that type of thing.

And then Kate will take that information and she'll look at the style of the home and she'll make recommendations on profiles that would be most fitting, and then also color. But what's nice is she explains why. And then once the homeowner understands, okay, oh, slate gray, you know what? That does make sense. It plays really well off the mortar on the home and the color of the stone or whatever that is.

But it helps when they've got five different colors that they originally had in mind, and now it really helps drill that down and helps them make a decision. So when they're spending a significant amount of their money on their roofing project, they go into it with a lot more confidence. So that's something that we utilize quite a bit.

Karen Edwards: I think that's fantastic. And we've talked a lot about the synthetic slate, but I want to make sure everyone understands there's also shake for maybe homes that are more woodsy or in that look and feel. And natural shake comes with a lot of maintenance and a lot of potential issues, so we want to be sure that everyone knows that's out there as well.

And the one thing that we didn't touch on either, Jason K, you mentioned when we were talking earlier, is that you can come in with options at different price points. It's not, I don't want to say good, better, best, but it's almost like, well, maybe you don't need this profile, but we can work within to find something that's a fit. And Jason T, I see you shaking your head too, so it seems like you're familiar with that.

Jason King: We've got a handful of different profiles, and some of them lend themselves better to tighter budgets. Not that they're not going to perform as well as all of our products because they all carry the same warranty, they're all the same formulation. So they're going to perform the same. But utilizing different manufacturing processes, we're able to cut some costs that can directly correlate to savings on the roof.

Karen Edwards: Okay. That's good to know. But we are talking about total cost of ownership, so I want to make sure that we circle back to that because it is so much more than a sticker price. And I think that the customer, most people want a price. I just want to know what it's going to cost. Didn't someone compare it to buying a car? What's that car going to cost me? I just want the car, but I want this and I want that. And do you want this model or that model? And is this model going to last me twice as long?

So you have to look at that, and then you have to take into consideration those cost savings, the maintenance savings. And I think that most people, I don't, normally think that way. So I think it sits with the contractor to do that, provide that education for the homeowner. And Jason T, you probably feel like you're doing that pretty much with most of the jobs that you're talking to people about.

Jason Totin: Almost all of them. I do run into people who've already made their decision that they want this, and that's what they're going to get, but it ends up being a very important conversation that I have very frequently with potential clients.

Jason King: I think it really also differentiates the quality of contractor that the property owner's dealing with. If they can help even just explain the concept of that total cost to ownership, provide options, they may not choose a composite. They may choose an asphalt roof, that's fine. But I think it really differentiates the quality of the contractor they're working with and shows how knowledgeable they are. And hey, he showed me this, this and this and explained why, rather than just saying, "Hey, here's a price, but sign."

Karen Edwards: And who knows, in 15, 20 years when they have to replace that asphalt, they may then make the decision, gosh, I wish I would've done this the first time because I can see the value now. So I love that using that as a differentiation for your contracting business because you truly are a consultant and an advisor, and not just a contractor wanting to sell a roof. So I think that's great.

Okay, my final question. For anyone out there that might be listening to this and saying, "This makes a lot of sense. I want to start offering DaVinci to my customers and have that as an option in what I can deliver." What does that look like to get started? Jason King, tell me.

Jason King: Typically you'd want to reach out to DaVinci or reach out to your local rep or connect with one of your local roofing and siding distributors, and they can get you in contact with us. But typically, we would just want to spend some time with the contractor, talk about features and benefits, the total cost to ownership, but then talk about the technical aspect of the material, how to install it. Just make sure that they're thinking about what's involved with our system versus other systems that are out there.

Because inevitably, we want to make sure that they make money, it's profitable for them and it's something that they want to continue to do. So we have a lot of support that goes along with that. We have project specialists to help support them with the homeowners. We have customer service, and we have some of the best customer service in the industry, in my opinion. We have an outside sales team, so we'll actually go out and meet with the contractor.

We'll meet them on the properties, we'll support them out in the field. And then we have a technical team as well. So we're not going to go out and train Jason. He could probably train everybody for us, but they'll go out and they'll actually conduct formal training with somebody that's new to the system because we want to make sure that they don't have any after sales care and it goes perfect.

Karen Edwards: Sure. And I mean-

Jason Totin: And just like any product, there are little tricks of the trade that DaVinci could teach a new installer and/or you learn them over time. You learn just how to make it go a little more seamlessly, a little quicker by just doing it in this manner. Just thought I'd interject that.

Karen Edwards: Oh, no.

Jason King: Yeah, the devil's in the details, if you will.

Jason Totin: Yeah, it is.

Karen Edwards: As always, as always. And I left this slide up here because this is the kind of support that you get as a contractor to help you sell that total cost of ownership and have a successful project. We're running out of time here. I have not seen any questions come in as of yet. I'm just going to do a quick look, make sure I didn't miss anything. And Jason King, Jason Totin, I want to thank you both so much for being here today and sharing your knowledge, your experience, your wisdom. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much.

Jason Totin: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Jason King: Thank you [inaudible 00:51:33]

Karen Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. And thank you to DaVinci for presenting this, and our goal is to really help contractors find success. And we hope that you have gotten a couple of nuggets out of this that you'll be able to use in your sales presentation. And be sure to visit ruferscoffeeshop.com. DaVinci has a full directory out there that has contact information. We've got project profiles if you want to look at some past projects. Anything that you are looking for, you should be able to find on RoofersCoffeeShop in the DaVinci directory with links to everything.

And I want to thank you all for watching this webinar. Please follow us on social media, visit our website. We hope to see you on a future episode. Thank you so much. Thanks Jason and Jason. We'll see you.

Jason Totin: Thank you.

Jason King: Thank you.

Outro: Bye-bye.